Confronting the Invisible Ache: Black Men's Journey to Healing and Empowerment

[00:00:00] Welcome to the MahoganyBooks Podcast Network, your gateway to the world of African American

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[00:00:46] Good evening and welcome to the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library. I am Tiffany

[00:00:54] Alfin and I'm the Chief of Public Services here for DC Public Library. I oversee programs

[00:01:01] and services for the 25 neighborhood libraries in addition to this building. We are honored

[00:01:08] to host Mr. Courtney B. Vance and Dr. Robin L. Smith this evening to discuss the powerful

[00:01:15] new book The Invisible Ake, Black Men Identifying Their Pain and Reclaiming Their Power. Mental

[00:01:26] health is often stigmatized especially in a black community but as Mr. Vance's experiences

[00:01:33] illustrate the pain is real and the need for open dialogue is urgent. By shining a

[00:01:42] light on this critical issue, he and Dr. Smith are providing a roadmap toward healing. We

[00:01:51] want to thank the DC Department of Behavioral Health for supporting this event and raising

[00:01:56] awareness of the district's work promoting mental health. They have been distributing

[00:02:02] 988 suicide awareness info cards, 988 safety plan booklets and other mental health hotline

[00:02:11] information this evening. We also want to thank the DC Public Library Foundation for

[00:02:18] supporting this event. Thank you all for being a part of this special event. Now please

[00:02:26] join me in welcoming Mr. Derek Young, co-founder and owner of the Mahogany Books to say

[00:02:33] a few words before the authors take the stage.

[00:02:35] How are you guys doing today? How are you doing today? Come on now, some energy is going to be a fantastic

[00:02:46] conversation. So as Tiffany said my name is Derek Young. I am one of the owners, founders of

[00:02:52] Mahogany Books. We founded this incredible company about 17 years ago. We opened about

[00:02:58] very first store in Southeast DC, my home in 2017 and we opened our second store in

[00:03:04] National Harbor in 2021. Thank you, thank you. Mahogany Books is a labor of love. It's all about

[00:03:14] providing a service and experience to our community to make sure that we see ourselves in

[00:03:18] literature and that we're discussing and having access to books and information that

[00:03:24] impacts us. That no one is defining our story for ourselves, we get to define our

[00:03:28] stories ourselves. So that's why this type of event is so personal to me because we

[00:03:33] now get to have in all my book club members know I scream this all the time

[00:03:38] and our book clubs about mental health and emotional health for black men. How we

[00:03:42] can at times have be centered and have that conversation to make sure that we

[00:03:47] are full, we are whole so we can really serve our community as well. So I'm

[00:03:51] super excited to introduce our authors today, Courtney B. Vance. He is an award-winning actor on stage,

[00:03:59] on film and in television. His credits include historically noteworthy films such

[00:04:04] as Hamburger Hill, The Huntsman Rid October, The Preacher's Wife and The

[00:04:09] Adventures of Huck Finn. Courtney's portrayal of Johnny Cochran and

[00:04:14] FX's The People's versus O.J. Simpson, American Crime Story of Uncle George and

[00:04:19] HBO's Lovecraft Country and of Rev. C. L. Franklin and Matt Gio's genius,

[00:04:25] a reed that have earned him two Emmys, a Critics Choice Award and a Black

[00:04:30] World TV Award. And multiple NWCP Image Awards as well as SAG, Golden Globe and

[00:04:38] Hardik Critics Association nominations. He won a Tony Award for his performance

[00:04:43] in Broadway's Lucky Guy. He is co-founder of Bassett Vance Productions

[00:04:47] with his wife Angela Bassett and is currently president of the SAG After

[00:04:51] Foundation. Please welcome Courtney B. Vance.

[00:05:01] So I actually practiced this and the bio and reading now is different than

[00:05:04] the one I practiced with so that's where I'm stumped. Product of DC

[00:05:09] Education, I'm good. We do well here. Dr. Robin L. Smith is the number

[00:05:13] one best-selling author of Lies at the Altar, The Truth About Great

[00:05:17] Marriages as well as Hungry, The Truth About Boom Fool. A sort after

[00:05:21] speaker, experienced media personality, ordained minister and host of

[00:05:25] serious ex-sims to Dr. Robin Show who addresses today's most pressing

[00:05:29] societal challenges through fearless truth telling. As a licensed psychologist

[00:05:34] and mental health champion known for her signature, four step prescription

[00:05:38] wake up show, show up, grow up, rise up, she brings uniquely healing

[00:05:44] perspective to our nation's most daunting social justice and mental

[00:05:47] health issues from systemic racism and racial violence to grief and

[00:05:52] loss to discrimination based on gender and sexual orientation to

[00:05:55] recovering and rebounding as a nation following crisis. She holds a PhD

[00:05:59] in counseling, psychology from Temple University and a master's degree

[00:06:05] from Eastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Please welcome Dr. Robin

[00:06:08] L. Smith.

[00:06:14] Q&A around 755. So please hold your questions to that point. I'll bring

[00:06:24] them Mike around at that time. Okay. Thank you.

[00:06:28] Good evening.

[00:06:34] It's such an honor to be here, not just because we just launched the

[00:06:40] Invisible Ake Black Men, Black Men identifying their pain and reclaiming

[00:06:48] their power. But it's also the sixth anniversary of mommy Vance

[00:06:54] Courtney's mother's transition. She died six years ago today. She was a

[00:07:01] librarian. Librarians are educators. And so we are here in her

[00:07:09] legacy. Daddy Vance's legacy, which we're going to talk some about my

[00:07:14] parents as well. But we wanted to I wanted to start by honoring your

[00:07:21] mother. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. It's how beautiful that

[00:07:24] we're in and she worked for years in the main library of

[00:07:29] Detroit. So thank you. Thank you so much for that. And I was

[00:07:34] hopeful that my sister Ceci would be here who just retired from FedEx

[00:07:39] after 40 years. But she said she used to compete lives in Waldorf,

[00:07:44] Maryland and the commute in here. She said I ain't doing that. I love you

[00:07:50] Courtney but not tonight. She thought we were gonna see her in the

[00:07:56] afternoon. And then when she realized this was tonight, she said

[00:07:59] that's not happening. I said but Ceci, she said Courtney, right?

[00:08:02] That ain't happening. I love you from a distance. Right? And this is

[00:08:07] actually what we're here to talk about tonight, aren't we about

[00:08:11] boundaries? Hey, Tangy. Yeah, about how much we sometimes try

[00:08:18] and please other people and forget about ourselves about the

[00:08:22] ways in which black men have not even been on their own list

[00:08:28] for self care. So and black boys, you know the ways in which

[00:08:35] black men have been pushed and push themselves in ways that

[00:08:42] run them in the ground and ways also that we were in New York

[00:08:49] we were in Baltimore yesterday and in New York yesterday too.

[00:08:54] But there was a young man in New York at a radio station. And he

[00:09:01] said to us, he said I don't have the luxury to take care of

[00:09:05] myself. And how often have we as black people said I can't take

[00:09:13] care of myself. We actually wear our exhaustion. And usually

[00:09:18] I'm saying this to black women. But now we're talking about

[00:09:22] black boys and men and black women and girls as well that we

[00:09:29] can wear our exhaustion like it's a badge of honor. Girl, I'm so

[00:09:33] tired. You don't know how tired and we nurse that thing

[00:09:38] about being exhausted and never ask ourselves if I'm so tired,

[00:09:43] why is it that I'm not figuring out how to rest. And so when this

[00:09:49] young, very articulate black man who had been to prison a couple

[00:09:55] of times and was sitting behind the mic in a radio station

[00:09:59] telling his story who said he didn't have the luxury for

[00:10:05] self care. And Courtney and I said to him, you don't have

[00:10:09] the luxury actually any longer of neglect. Because there is a

[00:10:14] price tag that none of us can afford to pay that comes with

[00:10:18] neglect. And just before we go into Courtney's story, and he

[00:10:22] shares how this book came to be and the story and legacy of his

[00:10:29] his father's death by suicide. I want to give you a quote to

[00:10:35] kind of nurse tonight, which is the lion's story will never be

[00:10:41] known. And Derek, you were sharing this, the lion's story

[00:10:45] will never be known as long as the hunter is the one to tell

[00:10:49] it. Amen. And so we're here tonight to invite you to begin

[00:10:56] to become the own your own narrator, your own content

[00:11:00] creator of your own story and no longer let the hunter and the

[00:11:06] hunter can be our it can be parents, it can be systemic racism.

[00:11:10] It can be the voices in your head that now are like a predator

[00:11:15] against you from the inside out. So we have a journey that

[00:11:19] we're going to make with you tonight. And Courtney, maybe

[00:11:23] you want to just start talking from where you are?

[00:11:26] Yeah, it's it's just a blessing to be standing before you with

[00:11:33] this. Wow. You know, and it's you know, and that's that's the

[00:11:40] the blessing for me is that, Tangy, you know, I we grew up

[00:11:48] achieving that's what we knew I knew how to do is to just

[00:11:55] you know, go to the next level. And and I guess, you know, I did

[00:11:59] all right. You know, it did for 37 years that you know, you

[00:12:05] know, that climbed the ladder and, you know, Angela met at Yale

[00:12:09] and, you know, it does. And then

[00:12:14] you know, that was the first thing when my father I was doing

[00:12:24] six degrees separation on Broadway, you know, top of the heap.

[00:12:28] Tony nomination and second one. And then I got that call from my

[00:12:33] mommy hysterical. The daddy had shot himself in the house.

[00:12:40] And I, you know, and for 30 years, I was able to, you know, I

[00:12:48] knew something was going on in the house, but I was able to,

[00:12:52] you know, go away. And I'm not deal with it. Even though I

[00:12:58] know my daddy needed me something. I can't be too close

[00:13:01] because they want us to sit. They want us. I don't want to

[00:13:06] sit. They want us to sit. We like to stand. We stood last night.

[00:13:11] We stood for an hour and a half last night. You need us to sit

[00:13:14] because it looked better because of the cameras. And it looks

[00:13:17] better. Oh, because we stand in front of the DC public library.

[00:13:26] Courtney stopped messing with us. And he wanted us to sit

[00:13:30] without my putting him on blast that he told us to sit

[00:13:33] and remember how hold on, hold on, hold on. Oh, one, one, two,

[00:13:38] three.

[00:13:45] And so, you know, I had, you know, I'd gotten away with it. I'd

[00:13:49] gone away to school and, you know, and who knows what was

[00:13:54] going on at home, you know? But when she called us, you

[00:13:58] know, I didn't completely unmoored. And so we went home. My

[00:14:03] sister and I for a month, we were home and getting every, you

[00:14:08] know, the affairs in order. And we kind of, you know, I mean, it

[00:14:12] was a lot, of course. And then we were getting ready to leave.

[00:14:19] And my mother said, Courtney and Cecily, I want you all to

[00:14:24] to when you go back, I want you, we all have to go and find

[00:14:29] therapists. We got to get inside this thing. And my sister

[00:14:36] and I said, okay. So but then, you know, how do you do that? I

[00:14:46] don't know how to do that. You know, but my mother asked us our

[00:14:49] mother asked us to do it. So we're gonna find a way. So,

[00:14:52] you know, Dr. Robin, it was I didn't, you know, cry on my way

[00:14:55] back to to New York and she the DC, well, Merlin as they say,

[00:15:03] Merlin. And we, you know, we got back here out behind. And how

[00:15:07] do you find a therapist? I mean, I remember sitting in front

[00:15:15] of a, you know, somehow I ended up in front of a black

[00:15:17] woman. You know, just very, you know, I said, Oh, wow, this is

[00:15:23] this is this is it. You know, and I sat there and Dr. Robin, it

[00:15:29] was she just looked at me like I was crazy. I didn't know what

[00:15:34] to do. I don't know how do you do it? How do you do it? How do

[00:15:37] you? How do I don't know? She just sat there looking at me.

[00:15:41] I'm looking at her for 45 minutes. And finally had my head

[00:15:46] in my hands. And she said, Do you have a headache? I said, No.

[00:15:50] Have a headache. So anyway, but Laura Lenny, because I came back

[00:15:55] to the show six degrees separation. And the cast of

[00:15:59] course just wrapped me up and I used to get massages in

[00:16:02] between the matinee days, which was Wednesday and

[00:16:05] Saturday. And and Laura Lenny, do you know who Laura

[00:16:10] Lenny is? She's a superstar now. She was she was an

[00:16:13] understudy back then. So Laura said, Courtney, I have you know,

[00:16:18] I'd like to give you a gift of some massage. I know you go in

[00:16:22] between shows. Oh, Laura, thank you so much. So I lay down on

[00:16:25] the table with Gunilla asp. And Swedish and she said, Courtney,

[00:16:32] is there something I need to know about what is going on

[00:16:35] with you? And I said, Well, my father just died of

[00:16:39] suicide. And she broke I broke and we started and we finished

[00:16:45] and at the end of the session, she said, I know I have the

[00:16:49] perfect person for you. And so that night, I had a dream, I

[00:16:56] don't know when whenever it was when I met my therapist to

[00:17:00] be Dr. Cornfield Margaret Cornfield, God rest her soul,

[00:17:04] she passed away this year. When I that night, I had a dream

[00:17:09] and something about I didn't have my dreams back then. I didn't

[00:17:14] it was unusual. So I within the dream, there was a pattern of

[00:17:19] some sort, like the rug, it was a pattern. And I said, huh, so

[00:17:26] got up and went to the session with Dr. K. Cornfield. And

[00:17:32] so a sugar has to the sugar hand I knew I was home.

[00:17:37] A little Jewish lady five feet from the ground, just you

[00:17:42] passed on the street and I know who she was. But that was my

[00:17:46] gal. So I shook her hand I knew it was almost she said, Courtney,

[00:17:51] there's now there's you know, I have two office spaces to

[00:17:55] the right. You know, I looked to the right and it was a

[00:17:58] little kind of sterile room. And I said, No, no. But then she

[00:18:04] said look to the left and there was another room and I walked

[00:18:07] it through there. And I said, Is that on the couch on one of

[00:18:12] the pillows was the pattern of my fabric that I had dreamed

[00:18:18] in my dream. So I said, I know I'm home again and started

[00:18:23] talking a mile a minute talk for my I was just and she

[00:18:28] said, Court, you don't have to tell me everything today. And we

[00:18:34] you know on and off and then the other thing and I'll let you

[00:18:37] jump in here because I know you have to. She asked me she

[00:18:42] challenged me she said Courtney two things she said,

[00:18:45] How do you make decisions? Courtney, I'm 30. You would think

[00:18:50] I would know how to make a decision.

[00:18:52] Everybody knows how to do that. They just flip a coin. She said,

[00:19:02] Oh, my goodness. No, she didn't laugh. She just went. Okay. Mr.

[00:19:07] Courtney. You know, sometimes I mean, that's great for acting,

[00:19:11] but for life that could be devastating. So then she asked

[00:19:16] me, she said Courtney, do you have the three things? Yeah,

[00:19:19] do you have the is the second thing do you have the

[00:19:21] patience to let the mud settle in the water and the water

[00:19:25] become clear? I said, Absolutely not. I got to go, Dr. K. I

[00:19:34] got to go. I got to make a decision. Okay. All right.

[00:19:36] Because you know sometimes you there's nothing to do but just

[00:19:40] stand. And then the third thing she did, she said,

[00:19:42] Courtney, I'd like you to get your dreams. And I didn't

[00:19:47] realize till like maybe month or two ago what the significance

[00:19:52] of that was because that's how we met off of a dream of mine. But

[00:19:57] she's so and so I, you know, figured out a way to, you

[00:19:59] know, get to thank you, Holy Spirit, get my dreams and I

[00:20:03] brought I would bring it in once once I got them. I was

[00:20:07] the first time I got them I brought in 35 dreams to bam,

[00:20:11] hold my legs up there. And I said overachiever, overachiever,

[00:20:17] take that. And she said, Okay, that's nice. Bring me the most

[00:20:23] powerful dream of the week. And that's where we'll start from.

[00:20:27] And you know, that's how we for three years, we walked worked

[00:20:30] off my dreams. My whole life was centered around going to

[00:20:34] bed. Because I had to go to bed by ninth or the book is

[00:20:37] called Breakthrough Dreaming by Gail Delaney. And every I had to

[00:20:44] go to bed by 930. And if I went to bed by 930, then I would

[00:20:48] sleep till two and then from two to six sleep solid till two

[00:20:53] and then from two to six, I would wake up and get a dream

[00:20:56] right down go back to sleep, wake, dream, wake, dream. So

[00:21:00] and then we we really that that's how we worked and we

[00:21:05] were able to get to quite we went quite quickly because I wasn't

[00:21:10] editing. Yes, I think it's time for you to take over because

[00:21:14] I've gotten the nod.

[00:21:17] Got the nod.

[00:21:20] So yes, what's interesting for me about everything that

[00:21:27] Courtney just shared. First, let's talk about his mother.

[00:21:34] And what his mother did. And then we're going to talk about Dr.

[00:21:38] Kaye and who she was, what she was wrapped in because we can miss

[00:21:46] our deliverance because it's not wrapped in the way that we

[00:21:49] are sure that it has to come. But Courtney's mother after

[00:21:55] his dad died by suicide as he shared said to he and his

[00:22:00] sister, we're going to all get help. She didn't say you and

[00:22:04] your sister go and get help. And I'll be okay. Because a lot of

[00:22:11] times parents, you know this, say do as I say not as I do.

[00:22:20] And then we wonder why our kids we wonder why our grandkids

[00:22:25] we wonder why they're stuck. And they're stuck because

[00:22:29] they're and this isn't to blame any of us. But remember, we're

[00:22:33] all here to start telling the truth tonight so we can get

[00:22:37] free. Please begin. So his mother did something radical. This

[00:22:43] was yes educated librarian but these were black folks who

[00:22:50] lived and worshiped like many other black folks in that

[00:22:56] time. And she didn't do this spiritualizing kind of God thing.

[00:23:04] And I get to say this as ordained clergy because I can talk

[00:23:07] about my own family, both my my biological family but also the

[00:23:12] family of faith that faith without works is dead. And so if

[00:23:19] we are looking for the manifestation of freedom, what

[00:23:25] work are you willing to do to get free? So the prayer when

[00:23:34] people are saying they're praying for something I'm

[00:23:37] thinking well pray for courage to do the work. Pray for

[00:23:43] strength to do the work. Because if we're wondering like

[00:23:47] why hasn't God moved? I mean it may be because I'm not

[00:23:52] moving. And so God moves and sometimes you know we are

[00:23:58] there's a passage of scripture in the Old Testament about the

[00:24:04] Red Sea being parted. And the first time it was parted for

[00:24:10] the people of Israel, it was parted without them having to

[00:24:16] do anything with the enemy coming after them. The second

[00:24:19] time they got to the to the sea and the water didn't

[00:24:26] part and they're like what how come it's not like like

[00:24:30] abracadabra like right? They had to put their feet in the

[00:24:36] water. First, they had to not be sure whether or not it

[00:24:43] was going to open or not. They had to do the work and if

[00:24:50] they were to drown, they would have drowned at least in

[00:24:55] movement toward freedom which is very different than

[00:25:00] standing on the banks saying like nothing's happening

[00:25:05] and then nothing that's happening again we're not

[00:25:08] blaming ourselves tonight we're just telling the truth

[00:25:10] because this is true about me. There were so many times

[00:25:14] where things weren't shaking loose but it may have been

[00:25:20] because I was holding on to what needed to shake loose.

[00:25:25] I wouldn't let things fall apart that had already

[00:25:29] shattered and so Courtney's mother blessed his sister

[00:25:36] and him not only by telling them to get help but by

[00:25:40] saying I plan to do the same thing. We're all this this

[00:25:46] thing that happened in this house we are all going

[00:25:51] somewhere separately and we're gonna sit down and this

[00:25:59] is what we talk about in The Invisible Egg not asking

[00:26:03] black boys and black men does it hurt but where does it hurt

[00:26:14] and that invisibility I believe is the greatest harm to the soul.

[00:26:24] You know when whether it's systemic racism or something

[00:26:28] happening in our families that people won't address

[00:26:33] invisibility is it's like a soul killer. It hurts.

[00:26:41] It hurts to be hurt and have someone deny that they hurt you

[00:26:48] and part of what we're here talking about in this book

[00:26:53] and talking about tonight is even if someone denies what

[00:27:00] they did to you are you going to go silent on yourself.

[00:27:10] Courtney talks a lot about doing the work we were in LA a couple of weeks ago

[00:27:15] talking about the book and it was a public event so we're able to

[00:27:21] with integrity share this part of someone else's story.

[00:27:25] Don Cornelius those of you who are old enough or young enough because of social media now

[00:27:31] everything that's old is still new now but Don Cornelius from Soul Train

[00:27:38] he died of suicide a lot of people don't know that 2012 and his son Tony we were with Tony

[00:27:49] Tony moderated a panel that Courtney and I were a part of about The Invisible

[00:27:54] and Tony said to Courtney and to me I'm afraid.

[00:28:02] I'm afraid to do the work I mean have you ever been hurt so deeply

[00:28:10] that you really just kind of hope that you never have to look at it again

[00:28:16] and then he met Courtney and here Courtney is has not just written a book but Courtney's done his work

[00:28:29] and Tony said I'm afraid like I'm afraid of what I'll find.

[00:28:35] I know that feeling and what I said to the audience and to Tony and to myself

[00:28:44] to Courtney is that it's interesting that we're afraid to do the work of discovery

[00:28:53] of you know finding out what we need to know so we can get free

[00:29:03] but it's interesting that we don't seem terrified to suffer forever

[00:29:08] and why would we not be terrified of suffering forever it's just simply because we've been conditioned

[00:29:21] for generations to be in pain

[00:29:28] we've been conditioned to be invisible we've been conditioned that we are only three fifths

[00:29:37] human so it's really hard to catch our brains up we need some brainwashing not the old kind

[00:29:46] the new kind where we wash our brains of lies Paul Laurence Dunbar says we wear the mask

[00:29:53] that grins and lies so the lie that I'm not fully human the lie that black boys and men are

[00:30:02] not entitled to be hurt when people follow them around a store thinking that they might be stealing

[00:30:13] or they go in their pocket and it's gum or it's candy and they end up dead

[00:30:24] I don't know about you but that hurts

[00:30:29] my father was I'm sorry to interrupt you no no no please my father was a foster child

[00:30:38] so he was his mother we found this out after my father died 25 years after he died that

[00:30:48] with the professor skip gates show finding a route Angel I did the show

[00:30:56] um and um and then our the vant's side of the family found us in Chicago they were in Chicago

[00:31:06] so we went to Chicago my sister and I went to Chicago we found them and they were saying that that um

[00:31:12] our father's mother Ardela um was looking for our father

[00:31:19] uh evidently she had uh on on the I guess back in the day maybe still today the birth certificate

[00:31:27] that Ardela's uh children's birth certificate her oldest son Larry on the on the child's birth

[00:31:36] certificate it said uh you know how many would it be on her on their birth certificate

[00:31:44] on the children on your dad I mean on on Larry's birth certificate it said the mother

[00:31:52] how many uh which is Ardela how many still births yes they had you know the woman had um and Ardela

[00:32:00] for um on Larry's birth certificate it said six and she had Larry when she was

[00:32:08] 15 so she's been she had been messed with for nine years since she was six years since she was nine

[00:32:19] math um and um and so the the family and mess with meaning abuse they raped her yes let us call

[00:32:28] a thing a thing yeah right call a thing a thing she was raped um and so the the family surrounded her

[00:32:38] took uh the oldest Ardela's oldest sister took um Larry her first child and then she had a second

[00:32:46] child my father but there was no one to take in the family to take him in so he was foster child

[00:32:53] he was in the foster system and so there's a picture of my father we have a picture a little

[00:32:59] picture and all the the little boys and girls in there were fair skin

[00:33:06] which meant the white boys white men were messing with the black girls and anyway

[00:33:11] so except for my father my father was a little dark skin um so um so his whole life he thought

[00:33:16] he was in love he thought he was abandoned and when things got rough i'm sorry let me turn over here

[00:33:24] when things got rough um when he was where he worked at Chrysler and benefits and he was in charge of

[00:33:35] this is in the 70s he was in charge of taking and firing 3000 people in one plant and

[00:33:43] rehiring 3000 people to replace him and in the midst of that he found out that he was going to be fired

[00:33:49] so that was the final straw he didn't even want to he wanted the company to go down go under but

[00:33:55] Leigh I had Coco save the company and he wanted you know so he'd go to law school and benefits

[00:33:59] and it's covered be paid for um so you know if but he didn't know that his mother was looking for him

[00:34:13] and if he had just been able to hold on just hold on baby just hold on we would have taken him

[00:34:21] to Chicago they would have found us all we would have gone to Chicago and they would have said

[00:34:26] Conroy you know Ardella was saying forever where's my boy they took my boy because she lost her mind

[00:34:37] and they took her down to Arkansas um from Chicago took her down to Arkansas and she they

[00:34:44] they were telling the story the family's telling the story she would always be standing around

[00:34:49] with my boy with my boy ever they took my boy what I do what they took out and they would say

[00:34:53] mama stop you know they didn't know what she was talking about and here you have

[00:35:00] she lost her mind over her son and her son lost took his life over the hurt and you know

[00:35:08] the pain I mean that's that's what my mother did for us she said enough and and that's the

[00:35:16] question that I have for us all at we are when we sit on the edge of our bed at two in the

[00:35:21] morning we all know what we're dealing with we all know what we're up against we all you know I heard

[00:35:28] of my my first love so bad she said Courtney I don't want to talk to you again in life

[00:35:35] don't you ever talk to me again and she got a restraining order so that I wouldn't be able to

[00:35:42] hurt my I mean of course she was hurt too but hurt my that's it that's not who I am

[00:35:49] I'm not that person so I had to couldn't go apologize wouldn't I couldn't say anything

[00:35:57] so I had to deal with myself well you didn't have to you chose to because I want us to realize

[00:36:05] tonight that we do have the decision to stay turning in a circle and not let the mud

[00:36:16] settle and the water to become clear and so you made a choice to not be victimized

[00:36:26] by your own suffering and by the suffering that you caused someone else you decided and you say this

[00:36:33] all the time what you're going to do that's really what this is about that's what the invisible

[00:36:43] ache is about it's about helping create a safe space that's what we're doing here tonight

[00:36:54] but this is a safe space even if you don't know who you are here with who's sitting next to you

[00:37:00] you is the space inside of you safe for you to begin to let the mud settle

[00:37:14] for the water to become clear and that's that's the that's the that's what we're saying is yes

[00:37:21] is it has you we have to make a decision that we have and sometimes after as David did have

[00:37:27] to encourage our own selves and the Lord there's not going to be nobody to encourage you there's

[00:37:31] not going to be anybody to give you the license to to take the time you know to go out for the

[00:37:38] walk I know I need to get some exercise I know I need to drink some water I know I need to go get

[00:37:44] that mammogram I know I need to get my prostate I know I know I know I know and you start where

[00:37:52] you are you start with baby steps and if all you can do first time through is just think about it just

[00:38:01] I'm just thinking about it now and eventually I'm going to get to the place where I can

[00:38:06] do something about it and if you feeling bad about yourself first time just acknowledge it

[00:38:13] and maybe gradually you can seek somebody to and it doesn't need to be professionally maybe it's

[00:38:21] Dr. Robin you always talk about the the lady at the hair salon the hair salon the barbershop the

[00:38:29] wherever it is that we can begin to tell the truth that's what this is about it's again

[00:38:38] where does it hurt and am I taking care of that hurt am I neglecting myself I mean Courtney

[00:38:50] and I talk a lot in the invisible ache and also in our conversations with communities like this

[00:38:58] about worthiness I mean do you feel worthy because that not does someone else think you're worthy

[00:39:07] not is the system rigged you know I did work in the criminal justice system with juvenile

[00:39:14] and some of the kids would come in with their pants mostly African-American hanging off their behind and

[00:39:23] you had a pick in their hair talking about that you know I'm doing me

[00:39:29] and I said okay I said do you know what wall street is and they said yeah I've heard of it's

[00:39:36] like that place where there's stocks and I said yeah I said did you know that they're

[00:39:42] building really fancy air conditioned prisons that are going to have like individual toilets

[00:39:50] in some of them and they're building them for you to go from this little house to that big house

[00:40:00] so that they can buy first homes and second homes and send their kids to school so I just want you

[00:40:11] to realize that when you're going into court looking the way you look they're doing you

[00:40:19] you're not doing you and so that was inviting them I didn't shame them I didn't blame them

[00:40:27] I said I just want you to know what's going on that there's a game out there and you're the prey

[00:40:36] and so we're asking you tonight

[00:40:42] what are you going to do

[00:40:46] what are you going to do and women let me say this as a black woman if you have sons we just

[00:40:52] did an interview with a brilliant young black journalist and I said to her not about her we

[00:41:01] were talking about the invisible ache and I said when girls fall down little girls we pick them up

[00:41:06] and we kiss their boo-boos and we put a colored band-aid on it and you know the black Barbie and

[00:41:12] whatever um little boys fall and we tell them get up stop that crying you know I mean shake it off

[00:41:24] if you keep crying I'm gonna give you something to cry about

[00:41:28] and then we wonder why our boys and why our men

[00:41:34] have separated from their vulnerability because they don't know that their vulnerability

[00:41:43] is part of their superpower and it is also part of their divine humanity whole people hurt

[00:41:51] I mean they they have their feelings hurt because they're whole they have joy and they have sorrow

[00:41:57] but three fifths people

[00:41:58] who were work horses who were told to not feel anything who had their families taken away from

[00:42:12] them who watched their wives raped who watched their I mean there was no room to feel but that

[00:42:22] and this is now so we're talking about we all have holes

[00:42:30] H-O-L-E-S did you know that you have holes and all God's children got holes

[00:42:35] and we're longing to be whole

[00:42:40] W-H-O-L-E which is a holy an H-O-L-Y journey

[00:42:50] whole people have holes and what Courtney is saying and showing you and I am saying and

[00:42:58] showing you is that a whole person can tell you about Emmy awards and they can also tell you

[00:43:06] about restraining orders I was I was you know the and I didn't understand it but

[00:43:12] you know I was the Lord is trying to get me ready was trying to get me ready for 30 years

[00:43:20] from then which is now when my daughter calls me and says dad I didn't have a good day yesterday

[00:43:29] I'm feeling bad about myself and I just think I need to stay home and I said baby you stay right at home

[00:43:36] take your mental health day and there was something that went down with her with another

[00:43:41] little boy at school and her brother got wind of it her twin brother got wind of it

[00:43:48] and I said son what are you going to do

[00:43:52] you know he said daddy I'm I know who it is I'm gonna talk to him I said okay let me

[00:43:57] let's pray and pray with him and said just you know just keep me posted let me know how it goes

[00:44:04] which basically what I said to him was you got this it's time for you know when he was 11

[00:44:11] when my mother died of ALS after four years and we we nursed her at the house for

[00:44:18] sir for four or five years and he she was 11 and almost 12 and he said daddy I don't want to go

[00:44:25] to Nana's funeral I don't want to feel those feelings I said I know baby but I can't protect

[00:44:35] you from life anymore and I need you to go and and I need you to to have my back because I've got to

[00:44:46] get up and I've got to talk and I need to see your face sitting in the front row he said okay

[00:45:01] daddy okay I'll go so you know now to see him at 18 you know because I had one of the things

[00:45:09] almost 18 another don't go too fast um two months and the um to see him be able to as one of my

[00:45:20] little phrases if it wasn't for the people this would be a wonderful world because you got to

[00:45:26] deal with the people you got to be able to deal with people who agree with you people who don't

[00:45:33] agree with you people making fun of you and you have to figure out here's my here's my question

[00:45:41] what you're gonna do because you can't there's certain things you know you can't do you know

[00:45:48] I know I can't shoot him I can't hit him I can't cuss at him so

[00:46:04] initially so you know I mean that's I mean wars are fought there's war being fought two wars being

[00:46:13] fought now over I just got the reading uh gold of my ears autobiography and just about how this

[00:46:21] woman who came from nothing ends up being the prime minister and involved in the business of man

[00:46:28] and woman kind starting the Israeli state how does she you know a woman a woman begin them

[00:46:36] in the 40s and 50s and 60s and nobody really a woman running nothing but all of a sudden she's

[00:46:43] running the whole talking to presidents and and on both coasts and Russia and and I said

[00:46:51] that's what she was preparing herself for life and my question for all of us is

[00:46:59] you have no idea what's about to happen to you but you ain't going to be able to do it

[00:47:05] God is like I need you Courtney I need you but I can't use you until you grow up I need you to

[00:47:17] do something that's why they call them the children of Israel because they was churn

[00:47:22] they weren't people of Israel I need you Courtney to grow up step up and that's what I gently

[00:47:29] challenged my son that day said son I need you now to take the first step you you can stay home I

[00:47:37] can say okay baby but not at 11 it's time now so um so fantastic we have to shift to the Q and A

[00:47:47] portion of our evening I'm going to uh take the first question uh if you guys don't mind

[00:47:55] and you kind of touched on it um specifically for black men the way that we raise our little boys

[00:48:02] to not to be vulnerable to not to feel too you know be tough what is that first step to get a person

[00:48:13] to a black man to begin to connect with his vulnerability we walk around with the I have

[00:48:20] to be macho I have to be masculine but you know what sometimes we fall in love and our hearts get

[00:48:26] hurt right there are things that pain us how do we begin that process to be able to connect

[00:48:33] the two sides of ourselves yeah you know it's a great question and part of what you're saying is

[00:48:40] how do I learn that I'm fully human that's you see someone who you know the where it says never let them

[00:48:53] see you sweat and I always say that's great for a deodorant commercial but it's but it's

[00:48:59] terrible for the soul it's terrible for relationships so when what is the first step

[00:49:06] is to have the father of that boy or the mother get in touch with their own vulnerability

[00:49:19] because so often what a parent is doing is they are pressuring their child to deny the parts

[00:49:29] of themselves the parts of the child that the parent is uncomfortable with

[00:49:35] so you're saying you know how do I help a boy well then I help myself I do a court needs

[00:49:42] mother she did again she didn't say go get some therapy she said I'm gonna get some therapy and

[00:49:46] you all should do it too so what would it mean for a black man to understand that it is colonized

[00:49:55] thinking it's colonized thinking it means that that is something that was put on black people

[00:50:05] or taken away from from black people to claim all of their feelings like who is it that doesn't cry

[00:50:15] when they're hurt I mean who is that someone well yeah Jesus wept and he also got exhausted

[00:50:22] from being around people who complained I mean there was a lot if you really think about what he

[00:50:26] was doing he was like going up in the mountain and say I'll meet you there because he needed

[00:50:31] him he needed a minute he's like I need a minute you all go ahead and I'll meet you there but

[00:50:39] it's so important for us to challenge why is it that we would ever tell a boy or a man

[00:50:49] and this is also true for women strong people don't cry when I hear you know presidents

[00:50:59] or leaders who are talking about painful things and or they apologize if tears start to come up

[00:51:09] you've heard people say oh excuse me or forgive me when they start crying I'm like what would you be

[00:51:15] see we're apologizing for being human we wear dark sunglasses to funerals and we do all kinds of things

[00:51:25] to not show our humanity so we feel like we can laugh but I will tell you if you have capped

[00:51:31] your sorrow off you are also capping your joy it is not until you can weep fully

[00:51:39] that you can also laugh fully it is not until you can love fully that you can also

[00:51:46] lose fully that's a whole human being and so we're talking about re-educating

[00:51:53] black men and boys and the women and people who love them that we say we want a man who

[00:52:00] shows all of his feelings but when he shows up with all of his feelings some of us

[00:52:05] want some of those feelings to go away we want him to still be the knight in shining armor

[00:52:14] instead of a whole human being who is sometimes a knight and sometimes raggedy and sometimes

[00:52:22] just like we are yeah so is there another question any other questions

[00:52:35] I am so excited to be in the room with both of you Dr. Robin I've been following you since the

[00:52:42] Oprah days Courtney I told my pastor in the movie of my life you would play his role

[00:52:50] you would play his role but today the interview with young GZ and Neilong dropped

[00:52:57] and they talked about a lot of what's being talked about tonight

[00:53:01] and Dr. Robin you just touched on a point that they also made about women wanting men to be vulnerable

[00:53:09] but not knowing how to then deal with that because we have also been conditioned a certain way

[00:53:16] so what are some steps that women can take to create that safe space for their men

[00:53:22] to open up to them and feel safe and still feel masculine and still feel like we respect them

[00:53:30] that's a beautiful question and what do you think Roe my mother's saying

[00:53:37] thank you for such a soul filled question and Courtney I'm sure probably has something

[00:53:45] because he knows a lot about his journey with Angela and his journey before and he's a daughter

[00:53:52] son and daughter that are twins but I will tell you the if you said tell me one thing I can do

[00:54:00] that women can do to create a safe space for their their partners their husbands their sons

[00:54:07] their brothers it is to take great care of yourself and we have an interview coming out on

[00:54:17] Saturday Oprah was gracious enough to do a prime time interview and that'll be out on Saturday

[00:54:24] we were with Gail King yesterday if you didn't see it you can see that online as well

[00:54:29] but Oprah asked a similar question and I said for women to take care of themselves and this is

[00:54:38] the reason because if your pot is full you're not going to be on him to fill you in a way that

[00:54:49] is not his job and so as he sees your joy and your freedom with him but also outside of him

[00:55:00] as he sees that you are filling your own tank and that you actually have some reserve now for him

[00:55:11] it is you it's not even the conversation you don't have to say anything he'll watch

[00:55:18] your tank getting full and he'll find that you're bringing that full you rose to him

[00:55:28] creating safety that you have enough to hold whatever it is he's bringing all of his complexities

[00:55:37] and the things that he's struggling with but it's hard for a man to do that if he feels and

[00:55:44] he sees the look in our eyes that we're needing him to be more than what he is

[00:55:52] yeah court yeah it and I had a double whammy in that my wife was an international superstar

[00:56:02] so it was very difficult to actually you know try to figure out

[00:56:07] how to how to serve it's not about money you know I'll never make as much money as she does so

[00:56:20] it's not about money and I had to wasn't tonight I recognize I saw in in the first Peter 3 7 live

[00:56:31] with the woman according to knowledge that they are the weaker vessel not weaker in strength

[00:56:38] and that did some you know research that weakened strength but emotional

[00:56:45] the women are emotional that your prayers are not hindered so I said wait a minute so

[00:56:54] you're saying that if I don't attend to the emotional needs of her my prayers will be that

[00:57:04] I'm for the family for every forever it will be blocked I said I got it and so what started

[00:57:14] to happen was I stopped saying what she wasn't doing and acknowledged her for who she was that's

[00:57:26] who that's who I married that's why I'm married okay and then I turned my attention to him did all

[00:57:36] the stuff I was supposed to do all the stuff you know brought you know I knew she liked flowers

[00:57:40] and I saw on Tuesdays went to flower mart and you know brought you know put flowers all around the

[00:57:47] house every Tuesday for three years and focused on and as I was focusing on the things that I needed

[00:57:56] to do and and I stopped focusing on well she was gone all day at the movies and didn't check in

[00:58:03] with me I said she grown

[00:58:09] she was doing that before we got together she don't need to check in with me

[00:58:17] should be alright let me focus on the thing I need to focus on if she needs to she knows how

[00:58:22] to get in touch with me if she needs to get in touch with me so let me focus on it and as I

[00:58:27] stopped messing with her she started to turn her attention well how come he didn't check on me

[00:58:40] is he okay where is he was he oh he's upstairs reading that book

[00:58:46] and gradually and I knew he had flipped when she said when somebody asked her

[00:58:52] um with I was there we were together and they said answer uh no she said somebody said Courtney

[00:59:00] here's a book he was a great book and she said give me that book he ain't gonna read that book

[00:59:05] my husband is in that by but that's the only book he read he reading that by

[00:59:10] I said wow and and and I acknowledged that that I had

[00:59:17] I know had something to do with it but I had nothing to do with that other than focusing on what

[00:59:30] I was supposed to do and and that's my journey that's my story is that I'm in prep mode for the

[00:59:40] future if I hadn't done the work the marriage would be gone the children would not be here

[00:59:50] there's no god will always find a way to get you know to maybe further down the line but he

[00:59:57] will use somebody else to do that don't you ever think that if you don't do it it ain't

[01:00:01] gonna get done he will have somebody else in that place and you will be out and doing something

[01:00:07] else maybe something smaller because you're not ready for solid food you're still dealing with milk

[01:00:15] mush um so I'm just trying to the the question of I mean I you know if if and what started

[01:00:22] happens that we started to compete with each other to do for each other and the relationship

[01:00:28] turned around it wasn't about you supposed to be as she ain't supposed to be doing nothing

[01:00:34] but staying black and

[01:00:39] all right yeah okay I'm sorry all here real quick okay um first of all I want to thank both of you

[01:00:48] all for coming out tonight and as a newly published author um I commend you um I wanted to come to

[01:00:56] your book signing because I am a longtime fan of you and your wife um but I wanted to ask you a

[01:01:03] question because me as being a published author I found some of my greatest healing through my

[01:01:09] writing so do you think um you writing these books your healing processes starting to begin

[01:01:18] or did you find more healing when you were just going with the therapist because I noticed that

[01:01:24] most of the people that go through the most hill uh God uses us to tell a story to heal other people

[01:01:31] so I really commend you for writing this book I am anxious to read this book but my question to you

[01:01:38] is have you found any healing through your writing like I like I found in mine uh doc um I

[01:01:48] you know I I I've I just be amongst people I found that I'm in the business of of

[01:02:01] as John Dunn Martin Luther King's favorite poets that I'm in the business of mankind and

[01:02:06] woman kind human kind and I'm I'm just trying to do his will and in doing that

[01:02:14] I get healed other people see me doing what I'm doing and what we're doing and we'll do other

[01:02:22] things together we'll do things separately we'll come back together we'll do it with other people

[01:02:26] and and and in the midst of that you know it it it it it happens when it happens or doesn't

[01:02:35] you know every day some days it's it's you know it's it's nothing I'm just I'm just

[01:02:42] and and the business of of we didn't know when we began this book what this book was going to be

[01:02:48] you know the the the business of of sharing we found out you know that we could talk forever

[01:02:54] just that we don't need no moderator we don't need we had a moderator one time here in in DC

[01:03:00] well we're here we were here we were downstairs somewhere to kill that we were downstairs somewhere

[01:03:05] and there was a moderator in between us or over to the right and and for two hours we were talking

[01:03:12] and she got one question in she had a whole list of questions and we could okay what's that I'm

[01:03:18] coming right back to you doc did you really think that and it's a who's that she came

[01:03:23] and so one just one more thing it's the audience was just roaring because you know we you know

[01:03:31] I it happens when it happens through the writing it happens through the to the talking it happens

[01:03:37] through the through the sharing it happens you know with you know on the street you know people

[01:03:43] coming up to me and saying and to doc I mean one person came up to me after I did

[01:03:48] a movie I was at the plate of drug dealers was 25 years ago and I was in the subway in Manhattan

[01:03:54] and I was you know and I thought it was come up to me tell me I just love your work Mr. Vance

[01:04:00] he came up to me said I just love your work Mr. Vance don't you ever do that role kind of roll

[01:04:06] again that is not you Mr. Vance and he went on about his business I was like okay

[01:04:14] well I mean not that weird but when that person will see if you haven't seen

[01:04:22] which is the new role highest high heist yes high yes showtime heist 88

[01:04:34] that's quite different as well Jeremy yes Jeremy is the the name of that character so if you

[01:04:42] haven't seen that you I think what's important about this and I know we're we're closing

[01:04:49] is Courtney's roles in front of the camera

[01:04:55] really are an example of all of the many faces and places not just of his life but all of our

[01:05:03] lives it is the drug dealer and the preacher and the preacher actually the preacher's wife and then

[01:05:12] the genius aretha and those were two different kinds of preachers and all of that lives in us

[01:05:21] all of those faces the things we're proud of and the things we are terribly ashamed of

[01:05:28] the way that we have been victimized and also we've also been predator to people

[01:05:36] did you know that you can't just be victimized

[01:05:41] you've been a predator to someone I have you we've all done that

[01:05:46] and it's important because the invisible ache is about a courageous compassionate

[01:05:54] encounter with what hurts and with what is waiting for you in your glorious victorious life

[01:06:08] so we know we're at time we're past time we know that we're going to let you do what you do

[01:06:16] but thank you for this moment thank you for you know we both take time very seriously

[01:06:24] because time is the one metric that you can never get back so wasting it and not learning from it

[01:06:32] and so thank you for allowing us to be your students maybe your teachers too let to be your

[01:06:39] students yes yes put your hands together guys for the incredible Dr. Robin and Courtney B. Vance

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