98. A Real Ballers Read Freestyle

[00:00:09] What's up and welcome back to Real Ballers Read.

[00:00:12] Miles and I are super hyped for this 98th episode of our show.

[00:00:19] If you've been with us from the beginning, this has been three years.

[00:00:23] We're two episodes away from a hundred episodes.

[00:00:26] And an announcement that we would like to make is that we will be formally ending the production of Real Ballers Read after our 100th episode.

[00:00:36] It's something that took us a minute to come to just deciding.

[00:00:41] And we just really feel grateful for everyone who's supported us along the way, who's listened to every episode, given us feedback.

[00:00:49] We are truly grateful and so excited to stay connected with you beyond the show.

[00:00:55] But yeah, we just thought it was time to let it go.

[00:00:58] And as I said, three years from 2021 all the way to spring of 2024.

[00:01:05] It's truly been like a long and transformative journey for both of us.

[00:01:10] So yeah, this episode is a time for Miles and I to freestyle a conversation, to say goodbye in this format and say hello.

[00:01:22] And say hello as our new selves with where we're going next and how you can continue to stay connected with us.

[00:01:32] But yeah, just as an intro, I wanted to share all that.

[00:01:36] And what's funny, bro?

[00:01:40] I guess my first freestyle bet is like I was thinking of like the confessional, like 60 minutes version of this podcast where I like go past that.

[00:02:00] I guess that even though I've been doing this podcast about reading books, I haven't really felt like I've been reading.

[00:02:08] You like that.

[00:02:11] I know.

[00:02:13] Because I was like, man, I'm looking forward.

[00:02:16] I think one of the big things, just to jump right in is getting into a rhythm more with reading.

[00:02:27] I feel like in the last couple of years with the podcast, you've had great guests offer us great choices, many things I would not have read if they weren't offered.

[00:02:39] But I also feel like so much of it has been like, oh, read to post about this.

[00:02:45] Read to talk about this.

[00:02:47] Like, oh, this guest is coming on.

[00:02:49] We have to read all of their books now.

[00:02:52] You know, it's like and haven't felt like I have been able honestly in a minute to get into my own rhythm of like, I want to read this because this is like truly what I'm interested in right now.

[00:03:07] And love it.

[00:03:10] You know, I've had spurts of it when I go to the library to the bookstore, just to browse and to scan.

[00:03:18] Yeah.

[00:03:20] But like to actually be in a pocket for like a year plus time reading is what honestly I feel like this was even building up for it feels like just a launch of both us reading and writing at like a level like never prior.

[00:03:38] 100% agree.

[00:03:40] Yeah, yeah, because it created, at least for me like this funny feeling of, for one split attention.

[00:03:49] Yes. And as well to which is really easy to start feeling guilty being like, oh, you know, like, how is it I'm gonna feel guilty for like reading something, because, because it's a part of like a personal project or just doing it for pleasure and and learning.

[00:04:06] When you know we also have like these books to read in preparation for interviews.

[00:04:12] I think the same goes for just all the time spent on Instagram or doing all the things related to real ballers read as a project, which for sure reminds me of some of our recent conversation just on this idea of like the difference between

[00:04:32] doing things that quote unquote scale and doing things that don't scale. Yeah, because us reading and us writing are two practices that don't really scale right in the sense that we have to be the ones to do them.

[00:04:47] And, yeah, I guess I just think that so much of real ballers read and and where we were coming from was a really great place of wanting to like, spread the message. Really, really in a way like instill it within ourselves more than we did when we started.

[00:05:07] And as well just see it as like that real journey of building our confidence in ourselves as like who as people who we are, you know.

[00:05:16] So yeah, it is it is definitely a profound moment of feeling like we're starting not starting over, but just like starting in a new way.

[00:05:27] You know, on that deeper path of just like reading and writing more. But I think that yeah, we just we spent a lot of time doing the incredible work like reading other people's like great recommendations.

[00:05:43] And like you say, it definitely expanded and blew my mind in a hundred different ways. And I'm really looking forward to like, quote unquote being back in the driver's seat on that, I guess, just in like really kind of following exactly my curiosity and and rhythm and day to day life for how I want to be reading and writing.

[00:06:03] Yep. Man, Rowan just build building off the last episode though, questions I realized just just now that like, I think one of the guiding things for us to even start real bars read both, you know, blog page and podcast the way that we did was like kind of this inherent question of like, how do you get to the bottom of this?

[00:06:33] Spread the love of reading and literacy.

[00:06:39] Yeah, like publicly in like the current social media landscape. And do you think it's possible? Like I think it is possible, obviously. But what is your

[00:06:53] Current view of that question?

[00:06:57] Well, I think it takes really intentional design on the part of like the platforms themselves. You know, as we've talked about, we're both on Substack and you know, yeah, like Substack isn't perfect, but they literally promote themselves and are designed to be the home for readers and writers, you know, and

[00:07:23] And even in the context of off kilter and the column that I just started writing called Ellis, you know, like something that our friend and former guest Felton Kaiser always talks about is that he's writing for people who actually read, you know, and I think that

[00:07:41] And I think that let's take like Instagram or a lot of the internet, like it's more so designed for different things. And it's like optimized towards keeping people on the app and, you know, engaging with certain kinds of content or X, you know, formerly known as Twitter, right?

[00:08:01] That definitely just like promote and facilitate a different kind of energy to them. And I think part of it for us is that we, in a sense felt, for lack of a better word, like homeless digitally.

[00:08:16] I know, I know. I don't really like using it that way. I just think that I think that we didn't know, but there wasn't a platform that is that what you said? Yeah, exactly. We saw his home right. Right. Exactly. And so we made one, you know, that was like more home than anywhere could possibly be.

[00:08:36] And I think it's been like a real honor to just see all the people who have also felt home in the podcast, whether that be the guests themselves or like all the people that listen all over the world. Crazy enough when you see those stats.

[00:08:51] Yeah, bro. You know, you haven't seen the Spotify for podcasters wrapped. I saw the wrap. I know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Includes people from all over the world and and bra and where I think I think well, I mean, it's on our end as people that Oh, I see. Right. Right. Right.

[00:09:12] And, you know, we could like take screenshots and share it and stuff. I just think that shared on the gram, you know, saying, oh, but no, I just I think that even that is funny because because for us, the actual embodied experience of the podcast is of producing the podcast is, you know, in our conversations, it's in our day to day feeling like, oh, you know, we got to remember to do this or schedule this or reach back out or follow up with the podcast.

[00:09:39] We used to have so many more butterflies and anxiousness going into these interviews with people that's mostly subsided, you know. But but yeah, like because it's been in that virtual realm, it's always been relatively difficult to like have a sense of feedback for it other than the people who directly like reach out to us and talk to us about it.

[00:10:05] Yeah, I know the people who directly like reach out to us from listening. You know, again, shout out our mom and Ashanti to straight up to most vocal and top listeners. Both both podcasts guests on our show as well. So nothing but love for them or for y'all because I know you're listening.

[00:10:24] But

[00:10:26] But yeah, I just think that right seeing those statistics and like not even really like being able to like feel them because podcast is in that realm of scale and in that realm of like asynchronous connection. It just makes it really funny. Right. And I think we also just started to realize that we came into this kind of knowing like who we who we are.

[00:10:52] But of course, you know, within a few years, like we've just settled into ourselves in a way where we really do know how important it is for us to like be able to

[00:11:03] Like be present, you know, and and have things that are tangible and and direct in our lives in a way to really feel as engaged in them as possible.

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:17] Yeah.

[00:11:19] What do you think was the biggest relationship that changed from the podcast? Like not I actually wasn't thinking of a person.

[00:11:35] But like, his social media or to reading to writing to zoom.

[00:11:45] Yeah.

[00:11:46] Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, there's definitely a lot of relationships among like interpersonal me that we could be that we don't talk about.

[00:11:57] But because you opened it up to the abstractness like I think that talk about. Well, no, I just I think it's important to start with that changing relationship with technology, you know, because I definitely coming in

[00:12:10] to the podcast coming into my young adulthood post graduation because I graduated in December 2020. We started the podcast in spring of 2021 and right.

[00:12:21] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:22] And and at that time, funny enough, like as a as someone who studied technology for my college degree, like I was I was very skeptical and like, boy, I was like, yeah, well, I was like, I was like, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:36] I was very skeptical and like worse than skeptical.

[00:12:40] Like, I really hated and resent to technology in a lot of ways, and I didn't trust it.

[00:12:45] And I think I just over the course of doing this podcast, like, yeah, it's just inevitable.

[00:12:51] And it's and it's inescapable to recognize that like we couldn't have done this without technology and like to even see how we ourselves as well as all of our guests and listeners in the whole community that we've really kind of like cultivated through real

[00:13:09] Ballers read is so much bigger than our phones and computers and screens.

[00:13:14] Right.

[00:13:15] Really has like, I think put me into a better right relationship with technology. You know, like it definitely was a hard time coming right because I think at the same time that I resented technology, I was also on Instagram a lot for real ballers read really wanting to like blow up and be successful.

[00:13:37] So like we had this like, we had this paradoxical like, oh, we hate it. But we also really love it and want to be like affirmed right through this medium that I think as well, you know, is coming from a mostly good place.

[00:13:55] I think it was like an underlying like in a deeper insecurity. Yeah, that we that we had and are still kind of like processing through.

[00:14:06] But yeah, to be at the point that we're at now where we know that we can find people's emails, find anyone's email, reach out to them, like follow up a million times with them.

[00:14:19] Like, bring them into our world virtually through like creating that time and space to like connect with them and and and learn and then even bring those virtual those clinical virtual relationships like into our like, like, you know, more real embodied lives is nuts.

[00:14:39] You know, I mean,

[00:14:41] now transitioning into into those like transformed relationships. I mean, for one, like our relationship is definitely changed and transformed.

[00:14:53] But even to think about like all the friends that we've made from guests, people that we hit it off with on the show and then got to see in person and like still keep up with and we're about to see Cree this weekend.

[00:15:07] Shout out to three miles, you know, and yeah, it's just it's just crazy. You know?

[00:15:14] Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. As as you were talking, I was thinking about this idea like being yourself.

[00:15:24] Could I feel like it's the most why that widely given advice? And it's really profound, though.

[00:15:33] And I think difficult also. And let's think about how unlike Instagram for me, like visually as a platform.

[00:15:47] It's very hard for me to like be myself. And, you know, it's even a thing that we've been thinking about.

[00:15:52] You know, we want to get more comfortable taking photos, everything. I think I think we've gotten better at that.

[00:15:59] But I think like only from doing it a lot was I able to feel that like, oh, it's not that I just like don't know how to be myself.

[00:16:11] It's like I will never feel like myself on this platform no matter how much I post in like the podcast.

[00:16:21] I feel like I can be myself more, but it's like through writing, which I feel like I can be myself fully and just like want to fully encapsulate and shine lights on all the parts of myself that I.

[00:16:41] You know, can think of and dream and imagine and just feels like.

[00:16:46] Even though we've written so much just getting started and just so excited to feel a little more whole in that sharing sense.

[00:16:59] And I would also say that I also feel a little yeah more harshly about technology, but also simultaneously understand its power way, way more obviously through what you're saying about emailing folks and just like the connections that we've made and brought offline.

[00:17:22] That's great. But like for my own life, I really want to limit the amount of time I'm on screens like as much as possible.

[00:17:34] 100% agree.

[00:17:35] 100% agree as much as possible because like not only from the study and reading that I've done of just like the crazy amount of screen time that you know folks are generate rich and have and just our world out at large is on currently it's so bad for our health.

[00:17:55] It's like cause and effect, like studied.

[00:17:58] And it's like the quality of the time you spend offline will determine how positive your interactions can be online.

[00:18:12] And I feel like when you're incessantly online checking scanning swiping anything scrolling like your quality of life.

[00:18:26] Cause and effect every time the more time you spend on it like those down, like, and right, I'm so ready and excited to like really spend as much of my day as possible offline reading, writing doing work.

[00:18:45] I'm going on on it when I need to like we still need them honestly for modern life and work.

[00:18:53] But I really want to contain it as much as possible.

[00:18:57] Yeah, for sure.

[00:18:58] It's just yeah, I don't want a life where I'm spinning more than an hour a day on screens, honestly.

[00:19:10] But right when the average springtime is eight, eight hours plus it's just like, holy, like that's that's sleep.

[00:19:18] That's like a whole chunk of your life.

[00:19:20] That's like sleep. No, seriously.

[00:19:22] But that doesn't rejuvenate us, heal us.

[00:19:27] It does the exact opposite thing that sleep does.

[00:19:32] Like that's a huge deal.

[00:19:35] So I really feel like that's a personal.

[00:19:43] Three that I really am going to be saying that's really important.

[00:19:50] Yeah, going forward in all in all ways.

[00:19:54] Yeah.

[00:19:55] Yeah, that's that's very real.

[00:19:58] It reminds me of the make art not content video or watching on the show Basquiat and like the whole idea like, you know, right.

[00:20:10] You pull up to the canvas to like paint.

[00:20:13] And then when you're not painting, you're doing like a bunch of other stuff to just like engage and like be a person.

[00:20:20] You know, and I've definitely felt that literally earlier today.

[00:20:24] I was thinking how I'm either on a screen or outside.

[00:20:34] And yeah.

[00:20:37] And that was, again, something that really was born out of Zoom University in that time in 2020 of just feeling so like bad being on my computer as much as I was.

[00:20:51] And I'd be outside for like hours just to like kind of get away from it all.

[00:20:56] But that was that time walking that time outside was the most incredible of inspirations for watering hole.

[00:21:07] And it was the most connected I'd ever felt to Dayton.

[00:21:11] And for sure, it just like literally had me like grounded and like my life in a way that allowed us and that empowered me to do real ballers read and all the things that we've done since.

[00:21:25] Because I mean what's crazy right is that we started it when we were about to go to sleep and you're just like what if we started a podcast?

[00:21:36] And then it was the book that blank for a while while we were simultaneously having a real ball is reading.

[00:21:41] I wait a second. It should all be called real ballers read.

[00:21:44] And then yeah and then we were we were we had just gotten back from Deerfield at that point.

[00:21:54] We had already we already had the Instagram of real bars read and then we started the first episode was ever forced.

[00:22:03] Yeah, exactly. Which was right after you got back from Deerfield.

[00:22:07] Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So then we literally went from first episode of Forest shout out to Forest your favorite librarian and then continued to record episodes mostly in different places.

[00:22:23] Because you know like we were in Dayton for that bit of time. But then you're in London. You're back at Stanford. I'm in Chicago.

[00:22:31] I moved to well I have like you know another no way. Yeah, I moved to Germany.

[00:22:38] And then like where like where were you? Oh, you were in New York. Yeah, yeah. You graduated moved to New York. So you're in New York.

[00:22:47] I'm in Germany doing all these episodes. I moved to Chicago within a couple months later. You're moving to Chicago and now we've been like recording here since but even just all the time like that we have been apart through this show and still connecting is just crazy to think about.

[00:23:07] Yeah, it is crazy. Yeah, I think it's about the first 50 or before Chicago and then the last I think approximately.

[00:23:16] Which is also just crazy to think like how many episodes we've done here. It is.

[00:23:22] Like with this bookcase right with us being in person started to have people in person like hosted in my home for the podcast.

[00:23:33] What's honestly wilder though is that a hundred actually felt like a breeze.

[00:23:43] It wasn't hard because I say it only because like we had like a weekly streak. I like 12 weeks 12 episodes.

[00:23:56] But like the rest, you would either have months gap for like, you know what I'm saying? And to still hit a hundred. We went on that European road trip.

[00:24:06] You know, like that's wild. Yeah, it's crazy to still hit a hundred in a couple years.

[00:24:13] Like that's about again 2530 a year.

[00:24:22] That is six a month. No, no, no, no, no.

[00:24:30] 100 100 over three years like 33 year 30 year year. How many is that a month? I was like, oh, like two or three a month to three a month.

[00:24:40] That's still crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. Especially with months gap between right. So it's like, how does that happen?

[00:24:47] Somehow to like, like, you know, because I track my reading and it's also like still at about a book a week.

[00:24:54] But that's just like if you're doing the averages like that, it does like work that way. You know, yeah, we'll be months at.

[00:25:00] I know we've been reading more than a book a week averages wise, honestly. Oh, yeah. But that's what I'm saying.

[00:25:06] Let's say like there's a few months that go by when I'm only reading one book. Right. But then literally what was it?

[00:25:14] Like last year, two years ago, because this was also even just like the whole like going hard on on on Instagram was a whole phase of this as well in which.

[00:25:24] Yeah, like I read over 80 books in a year. Right. I see you're not even counting. No, no, I'm not. Right.

[00:25:31] I like, you know, of course, like part of it is just, you know, keeping track of what I read, which is something that we both started to do.

[00:25:40] You know, beginning of college, because that's really what it all comes back to is that we were scanning PDFs and sharing them with each other and like taking notes on notability, sharing each other, put them in the Google Drive and have the Google Sheets going like, all right.

[00:25:56] Like, let's take this shit seriously. Right. Like the intensity was honestly crazy. Right. On opposite ends of the country in school.

[00:26:04] You know what? Man, dude, there's so many questions are just coming up now that are just fun.

[00:26:13] Because I feel like this is a big thing for us with real with real ball is read to and part of what I think is so incredible about it is that we've stuck through it done it all without being paid for it.

[00:26:30] There's no money involved. We obviously wanted. Yeah, yes. Zero fun.

[00:26:35] Probably negative. I really think about it. Right. Got these nice mics.

[00:26:40] Got the whole evil. Yeah, true. It is.

[00:26:44] But like, what is your relationship now?

[00:26:47] We like doing things for passion, doing things for money because we had, you know, ideas of how to monetize it.

[00:26:56] I think we realized, you know, I think now sitting here now, like, it's not that they couldn't work, but I feel like there's an element to this that wasn't just like, right.

[00:27:12] Or already for money to be introduced to it or it would not be ruined.

[00:27:18] But yeah, I think about that because this is because this has been like a true hobby and like the purest most beautiful way.

[00:27:28] And we've been like true amateurs, you know? Right.

[00:27:31] But I think there's a real gift in my keeping things as hobbies, too.

[00:27:36] And not having to force everything to make money. But what? Yeah, what are you talking about?

[00:27:45] Yeah, it's really tricky, you know, and it's not lost on me from even the last episode of like how much does water cost? Right.

[00:27:57] Because I think that it's very easy for me to just start seeing water as time and work and effort and like spirit, attention, all these things that in various ways have been like quantified, commodified towards money.

[00:28:13] And I think that there's always that element of like gift and the immeasurable in like our work and in our value.

[00:28:23] But I'm 100% at a place in my life right now where like if it don't make dollars, don't make sense.

[00:28:30] You know what I'm saying? Like, and I feel like we have struggled through that a lot.

[00:28:37] Yeah, and like a lot more than like we even know between each other, let alone have like shared with anyone.

[00:28:45] It's just how like trying this time has felt for like having things that we're like really passionate about having things that we know we're good at or like have the potential to be really good at but like not feeling fully valued or appreciated for them.

[00:29:03] Right.

[00:29:04] And I think that we're at a point now where because the work has already been done.

[00:29:12] We're both really excited and grateful for this, for this partnership with mahogany books around you know setting up the affiliate links, the advertisements being a part of their podcast network.

[00:29:24] Derek and Ramunda are incredible as people, as like as mentors and business leaders and real community leaders for real.

[00:29:40] And we're both really excited for just just even seeing how even when it is involving money like it's really about like the trust and the like the relationship building at its core.

[00:29:54] You know, and it's like you know it's not like we did the podcast and now we're ready to just like you know drop our hobbies or drop what we really want to do and and just like you know going to IB or like consulting or something like it's not like we're just all of a sudden trying to like make as much money as possible like we're still moving.

[00:30:17] We're still moving with like trust in ourselves and trust in like relationships.

[00:30:23] So yeah I mean like even contrast that like I was saying before like we started Real Ballers Read thinking that we were going to be making a lot of money off of it.

[00:30:31] Right. I think we did put a lot of pressure on ourselves to make this like a quote unquote ticket of success.

[00:30:37] Yeah.

[00:30:39] And really like get there as fast as possible. And you know not like like you say like not like that couldn't have happened but I think we're both grateful for like how it turned out exactly as it did.

[00:30:52] And there's something yes special and sacred even to just like that experience. And you know what I'm what I'm sorting through now right is just how like for one being in Chicago and feeling like rooted here.

[00:31:09] Feeling like we have honed some incredible skills over the last few years in and outside of Real Ballers Read.

[00:31:19] It definitely feels like time to like you know yeah just right. Righteously you know be concerned with like with money.

[00:31:31] Yeah and with like wanting to be like you know paid according to according to like you know the quality of our work and presence and connections and everything because because yeah it can be really hard out here you know I'm saying we're not definitely not trying to like

[00:31:48] struggle unnecessarily and it's like it's a really fucked up world that we live in. And I think that's also part of yeah part of this paradox is is wanting to believe in like meritocracy and getting like successful off of like hard work and things that you love always

[00:32:10] Yeah things that you love and stuff like that but like you know it's pretty crazy to think like that honestly just given how yeah just like messed up and how like set up the game.

[00:32:23] What do you mean crazy crazy to think like that?

[00:32:25] Oh like it's just it's just you got to have like a lot of courage you know and you got to have a lot of faith.

[00:32:30] Certainly certainly.

[00:32:31] And and you have to like be able to move like yeah in the absence of like evidence for it you know because because it could have been so easy for us to just like get discouraged off of right like the financial metrics or the metrics of like podcast listens but we just kept going you know.

[00:32:54] And I think that there's a lot to like give ourselves credit for that.

[00:32:58] Yeah it's funny because I think for me this was also though just a great lesson in the power of trying trying things like obviously we knew podcasts were a popular thing and you know wanted to grow our audience with with them.

[00:33:26] We didn't think I like I don't think either of us dream like oh I'm trying to be like a big podcaster you know.

[00:33:34] Like I think we're even putting that energy in it you know leaking that a bit which I think is funny because it just was never our goal or our real dream of like trying to write and yeah.

[00:33:55] So it's like a beautiful thing to be able to like give the effort and to still know so so something is like not for you in the form that it's in.

[00:34:08] I think it's really exciting and awesome that we you know I've talked through that too over time and I feel I feel like a lot of the excitement though was never about it being podcast but that we got to like talk to all these interesting folks and like talk to each other.

[00:34:32] It was just kind of a way to document things we were already saying but I think that's part of why this hundred felt like kind of a blink.

[00:34:43] Yeah, we were having we were having fun. Yeah.

[00:34:48] Yeah, like only one and a half interviews maybe where I was like what's going on but yeah that's funny.

[00:35:04] It was very high.

[00:35:06] Yeah, 99.9% Yeah, for sure.

[00:35:10] I remember we were just eating home run in pizza, and it got me thinking is real would you consider real bars read a home run in a home run home run.

[00:35:24] And what any.

[00:35:27] A home run and what inning. Yeah, I think we have to be like within the first like few winning right say very second, third inning.

[00:35:36] Yeah, certainly man. It's definitely like it feels like a big just point on our score scoreboard brother honestly even just to talk about it.

[00:35:52] And over the last few, few years like I don't think.

[00:35:59] Yeah, very few people.

[00:36:03] Frankly I've said something more interesting than I have like a podcast about books.

[00:36:08] I think coming from us to do with my brother, you know, and yeah we're almost at a hundred episodes you know I just have loved to talk about it and even to say now that we've done it in a sense we used to talk about, you know, a lot of books you just want to say

[00:36:28] And to say that we've done this you know it just feels like, wow, like, we really did it and it's just a beautiful archive now to look back on and share.

[00:36:42] And yeah so so really grateful for my hog any bucks to bring us on even after we said that you know we didn't want to be doing it.

[00:36:51] Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah, yeah, I mean, because it's still again like the way they will work it's still going to be shared and stored and loved. So, yeah.

[00:37:05] 100% No, that's great. I really appreciate you saying that I definitely was like when I first thought of it, I was like, it's a double you know it's like, yeah, that's a good double but I think even just that image of like a point on the scoreboard right now is super deep and so yeah you definitely made me change my mind I'm glad I asked it because you're right and I also think it's one of those things where

[00:37:28] Like, we have every yeah like we have every reason to like feel and know that's a homerun now.

[00:37:38] And we don't even know, like how many points is going to be honestly because like, because it's only, it's still fresh you know I'm saying like I feel like the older that we get the further that we go along the more we'll just realize like oh fuck like that was a homerun that was like eight points

[00:37:53] you know I'm saying or like infinite points just off of all the different ways that it's like looking back on it we'll be able to just appreciate it even more for what it was and that for what it was that wasn't a business that wasn't like a nonprofit that wasn't like, you know, the ticket.

[00:38:12] You know that wasn't like, you know, yeah easily definable necessarily but like was all those things and like more, you know, because, because the other image that's coming to mind for sure is just like of a of a marathon right and yep and having like lots of sprints in between having definitely some times when we're walking.

[00:38:35] Of course that just makes me think about our mom, you know with with getting into marathons and running. And how much this this show and real ballers read is about like our relationships with our parents to.

[00:38:55] Yeah.

[00:38:58] So yeah, I mean, you know, take us take us back to like when no no but not take us back to when we were first thinking about stopping the show and we had in particular considering the importance of like bringing our parents on to interview them because these are these are going to be the next two episodes that are that are aired the last two.

[00:39:22] So yeah, what do you remember from like, yeah, when we when we knew we had to like have them on on the podcast and like what that means for you.

[00:39:33] I remember when we first talked about our thought of it. I know I feel like early on we knew we were going to do something special with them.

[00:39:45] But definitely nervous, you know, about talking with with them and just unsure about, you know, how they would go. And in the best way though, and just like it was cool.

[00:40:06] I think it was cool to feel that alongside, you know, all these authors and writers that we've had on and then some somehow the final boss is is your parents.

[00:40:18] Yeah.

[00:40:19] And yeah, but I know it'll be great to talk with them and.

[00:40:27] Yeah, I just don't don't know what to expect.

[00:40:30] Yeah, yeah, for sure. Did you feel like how did you feel when you when you graduated? You know,

[00:40:39] Yo, what? No, it's just funny. Connected to the podcast or? Well, no, I'm just curious. Like, I'm back. Freestyle. Huh? Yeah, yeah, we're telling you know.

[00:40:52] I mean, so here, maybe I'll start because again, I think that sometimes we can like ask a question that we really just want to be answering ourselves. Yeah. How did you feel? Yeah, thanks.

[00:41:05] So for sure, like, you know, I honestly felt challenged in a lot of ways in college and especially after

[00:41:19] those last few semesters.

[00:41:22] I was like, you know, yeah, I was honestly like, I was constantly like, yo, what if I did just like drop out? You know, or what if I did just stop like really? It is a shit. Really? Yeah.

[00:41:33] Yeah, it's wild. No, I was no, I wasn't a really I was a really tough place. Wait, honestly.

[00:41:39] Before really? Yeah, even beforehand. Like I think I think, you know, freshman year was mostly cool. But then sophomore year definitely like was was probably like the low point.

[00:41:52] And it wasn't, it feels like a lot longer than it really was. But but even even once I started, you know, being a relationship with Simone, like I still think I was very like depressed and just like not feeling aligned.

[00:42:05] And I think that's another thing for me about podcasts is that it was during that sophomore and junior and senior year really that I was listening to podcasts all the time. Like, you know, I was listening to them while I ate dinner, why every single meal I was in the dining hall a lot of the time.

[00:42:19] I was constantly listening to podcasts and reading, you know, books along alongside you books that I like actually was genuinely curious in. But I felt like it was just such a like time of dissociation and depression because I was like, how is it that I did all this stuff?

[00:42:39] Just to like get to college and now I don't find like, yeah, I just I don't find any of like what you know, I'm supposed to be learning in school is like actually important or relevant or like, or in a lot of ways like opposite to like what I believed or what I was interested in.

[00:42:56] And I think there's definitely an important point to be made here is just that I generally struggle with like being present, you know, and especially being present in like uncomfortable situations. And so I think that definitely counts as one. But I just felt like there was more important conversations with me.

[00:43:12] And there was more important things that I wanted to be a part of that weren't in any of my classrooms. And I was constantly looking for them. I think so much of, you know why I loved the Red House, you know where I work now is because like that was one of those classrooms.

[00:43:29] to be a part of that weren't in any of my classrooms.

[00:43:33] And I was constantly looking for them.

[00:43:34] I think so much of why I loved the Red House,

[00:43:39] where I work now is because that was one of those classes

[00:43:43] where I felt really captivated and engaged

[00:43:46] and tied in my two semesters learning about India

[00:43:50] or all the water classes that I took

[00:43:54] were yeah, really helpful for keeping me

[00:43:56] intellectually engaged when most classes,

[00:44:00] like it was just easy for me to check out in.

[00:44:04] So yeah, I think it really was in that relationship

[00:44:07] with the intellectual life at Georgetown for sure,

[00:44:10] socially, physically, just geographically in this space.

[00:44:14] I felt really connected, but I just did not feel

[00:44:19] like seen or heard in the classroom really

[00:44:21] in most cases.

[00:44:23] Sorry, are you saying like the podcast,

[00:44:25] how do you feel seeing it?

[00:44:27] Yeah, for sure.

[00:44:27] So, oh, thanks.

[00:44:28] Well, no, so yeah, I was, but I was taking

[00:44:30] a long route just to say that like,

[00:44:34] it's like, you know, the pot,

[00:44:35] like we were even leading up to the podcast

[00:44:37] like that whole time that I was going through

[00:44:40] these things and you know, in particular,

[00:44:45] I was bringing it back to graduation

[00:44:46] because both in the virtual graduation

[00:44:52] and in the in-person one, I had like my name

[00:44:56] like all fucked up and mispronounced.

[00:44:58] And I'm like, damn, like that just really,

[00:45:01] you know, is the icing on this nasty ass cake

[00:45:04] of like feeling like not welcome here, not home here,

[00:45:09] you know, and I think it was just something

[00:45:14] that I really deeply needed in my soul

[00:45:16] was that kind of space with you

[00:45:19] and with like people to engage

[00:45:23] in this like intellectual way

[00:45:25] where everyone was like appreciated, you know,

[00:45:28] everyone was listened to.

[00:45:30] And you know, like you said in the last episode,

[00:45:32] like we weren't always like ask questions ourselves,

[00:45:34] but I think that even the fact

[00:45:36] that we were like creating the space

[00:45:39] did just feel, did make our three years

[00:45:43] of Real Ballers Read feel like, you know,

[00:45:46] yeah, a kind of education, you know,

[00:45:48] and a kind of like quote unquote grad school

[00:45:52] and something that we, you know,

[00:45:56] we're actually doing for ourselves

[00:45:59] because of all the struggling that I did in college

[00:46:03] like did not always feel like I was doing it

[00:46:05] for myself, you know, like I felt like, you know,

[00:46:08] it was important to like graduate for the family,

[00:46:11] you know, and stuff like that,

[00:46:12] but I didn't always like think

[00:46:14] that it was really for me, you know.

[00:46:18] That's really interesting.

[00:46:19] Yeah.

[00:46:21] What, what surprised you most about the podcast?

[00:46:26] So because I asked the question

[00:46:28] and then put it back on me,

[00:46:31] I'm gonna let you take like,

[00:46:32] let you take the answer to that one too.

[00:46:35] Man.

[00:46:38] Yeah, I guess we've been answering it

[00:46:41] a couple of ways.

[00:46:44] I think it was during COVID, you know, you, me,

[00:46:48] and Grace, you know, having the convo, deep convo,

[00:46:52] and I like put a mic, you know,

[00:46:54] out on the table and I'm like,

[00:46:55] yo, we can make a podcast.

[00:46:57] And y'all were not feeling it.

[00:46:59] You were like, yo, what the fuck are you doing?

[00:47:01] I know you wouldn't know, but all this,

[00:47:04] I feel like if anything like surprised me

[00:47:09] that the vibes weren't ruined that much ever,

[00:47:13] you know, ever, honestly.

[00:47:16] With us talking, with us talking with guests,

[00:47:20] I think aside from probably those first few,

[00:47:23] you know, I don't wanna go back and hear those,

[00:47:27] but I feel like even those just to jump straight in

[00:47:34] were great.

[00:47:35] And I think-

[00:47:36] Yeah, literally no like experience

[00:47:38] with podcasts whatsoever.

[00:47:39] Yeah, yeah.

[00:47:40] No experience really with doing anything live like that.

[00:47:46] You know, wasn't live.

[00:47:47] Yeah, but yeah.

[00:47:48] A lot of times unplanned.

[00:47:50] Right.

[00:47:51] Or in terms of like we didn't have questions exactly.

[00:47:53] Exactly.

[00:47:53] You know, like-

[00:47:54] Exactly.

[00:47:55] Yeah, I remember it right there was that whole time

[00:47:57] where we were like nah,

[00:47:58] but we can't script a question.

[00:48:00] It's gotta be raw.

[00:48:01] And then we're like, oh, but we got to now.

[00:48:05] It's gotta have at least three solid questions

[00:48:08] because, you know, we only need three

[00:48:09] and then they'll just talk.

[00:48:11] But yeah, I think so that's one.

[00:48:17] And also just most surprised by

[00:48:23] how generative Real Bows to Read would be in general.

[00:48:28] I feel like we had such a wide variety of ideas

[00:48:32] that just cropped up as we were doing the podcast.

[00:48:35] It was just really fun to see

[00:48:37] how our creative brains work

[00:48:39] and most other things we didn't do.

[00:48:45] But a lot of things we did and tried,

[00:48:48] the video and again, the mics and yeah,

[00:48:54] could we just like the regular,

[00:48:58] steady mics solo and yeah.

[00:49:05] Yeah, I think that's a part of it

[00:49:08] that I'll look back on in a fun way.

[00:49:16] Because I feel like part of the perspective

[00:49:21] is going through so many of those great ideas

[00:49:25] and feeling excited.

[00:49:29] But then life happens and work happens

[00:49:35] and you're just like, you realize,

[00:49:40] you are excited and passionate about the podcast

[00:49:45] but not in like the same ways

[00:49:49] that I assumed and projected at first.

[00:49:57] Yeah, as well too, just the kind of career advice

[00:50:03] that I feel like I heard a lot was always like,

[00:50:05] oh, your career is not linear.

[00:50:09] It's definitely windy and all over the place.

[00:50:12] And I for sure already feel that even three years

[00:50:18] or yeah, three, four years out of college

[00:50:21] of just how emergent that process is

[00:50:27] at doing stuff and then meeting someone new

[00:50:31] or encountering a new idea that redirects

[00:50:35] and to still like, yeah, come back

[00:50:39] and come back to Real Ballers Read

[00:50:41] and still hold that even amidst a lot of change.

[00:50:48] Yeah, it's just like who knows really

[00:50:49] what other curves and questions

[00:50:53] and surprises are along the way of us

[00:50:55] just like coming into ourselves and expressing ourselves

[00:50:58] and creating work that we're really proud of

[00:51:02] and has an impact for people.

[00:51:06] So I wanna ask you, not top five guests

[00:51:11] or what were the top five books you read for the podcast?

[00:51:16] Definitely, or are you pulling up the-

[00:51:20] I'm pulling up the episodes, but I kind of forgot.

[00:51:24] Nah, I was definitely gonna say Your Blues Ain't Like Mine.

[00:51:27] Yeah, that's gotta be one, especially

[00:51:29] because I'm put us on first.

[00:51:33] Yeah, exactly.

[00:51:35] Yeah, to be put onto that book by our mom

[00:51:38] and then Hanif Abdurraqib is crazy.

[00:51:42] Wow, there are just so many incredible books for real

[00:51:46] that we covered in here.

[00:51:49] Invisible Man for sure.

[00:51:52] Like-

[00:51:53] Oh, with Kendall.

[00:51:54] Yeah, Kendall.

[00:51:58] The Color Purple, definitely.

[00:52:00] So what is that?

[00:52:01] I said three.

[00:52:03] The Color Purple, Invisible Man

[00:52:07] and Your Blues Ain't Like Mine,

[00:52:09] autobiography of Malcolm X.

[00:52:12] You read it for the first time?

[00:52:13] Yeah.

[00:52:14] Oh wow.

[00:52:15] Yeah, there's a lot of ones to pick.

[00:52:16] I mean, the other ones that are coming to mind

[00:52:19] right now are Asada.

[00:52:22] And George M. Johnson's books

[00:52:26] because those were incredible.

[00:52:28] And I think the thing with those two was like,

[00:52:33] yeah, they're super deep.

[00:52:35] They're incredibly well written.

[00:52:37] They're very funny and personable.

[00:52:39] And I think those were the kind of books,

[00:52:42] those were the books that we read

[00:52:45] and are like, we really gotta step up the writing game.

[00:52:48] And I think that that inspiration

[00:52:51] and as well to just see how open they were

[00:52:54] to being on the podcast,

[00:52:57] talking about their books first with Soul

[00:53:00] and then having George on as well

[00:53:03] and bringing Soul back to talk with that.

[00:53:05] It was just crazy.

[00:53:07] And I thought that was really fire.

[00:53:10] So that's a particularly cherished memory of a book.

[00:53:17] But yeah, there's so many.

[00:53:18] I mean, scrolling through these now, I'm just like-

[00:53:20] So we were in Chicago by episode 40.

[00:53:24] Oh wow, what?

[00:53:26] Which is crazy.

[00:53:27] No, 42.

[00:53:28] No, 41.

[00:53:31] Yes.

[00:53:32] Yeah, yeah, cause we had our episode 50 was with Simone.

[00:53:36] That was in the fall of being here.

[00:53:40] That's crazy though.

[00:53:41] And the last 20 have been in the fall,

[00:53:44] since the fall of 2023.

[00:53:46] Wow, what?

[00:53:49] Really, really.

[00:53:51] It's a thing.

[00:53:52] These episodes be filling,

[00:53:54] be filling so far from one another.

[00:53:57] But then you look at them and you're like-

[00:54:01] Danny's episode looking like it might be

[00:54:03] the longest two hours and 40 minutes.

[00:54:06] Oh, I mean, it's not longer than-

[00:54:07] Louis Gordon.

[00:54:08] Louis Gordon and Jekia Carruthers as well.

[00:54:12] Yeah.

[00:54:13] Those two were pretty big giant ones.

[00:54:16] Yeah.

[00:54:17] Wait, you said the color purple on your list?

[00:54:20] Yeah.

[00:54:23] I said it a couple of times.

[00:54:27] I mean, also too like shout out,

[00:54:30] shout out Sand and Sweat.

[00:54:31] You know what I'm saying?

[00:54:32] Shout out Water and Hole.

[00:54:36] Indeed man.

[00:54:38] Whole publishing press has been birthed

[00:54:40] out of Real Ballers Read,

[00:54:42] or inspired by, informed by, shaped by.

[00:54:46] Yeah.

[00:54:47] Yeah, like the inspirations are truly boundless, right?

[00:54:52] For things that I like,

[00:54:54] that were inspired directly in the context of this show.

[00:55:00] Idea wise as well as their relationships

[00:55:02] and my other project ideas.

[00:55:06] One question I have for you is

[00:55:10] what you can't wait for me to write about.

[00:55:14] Because I also have some thoughts for you as well.

[00:55:18] But I think as we transition into this phase

[00:55:23] of centering in the reading and writing,

[00:55:26] of course we have a lot that we want to read,

[00:55:29] but I'm also just curious what we think

[00:55:31] we both be like,

[00:55:34] yeah really awesome at writing about too.

[00:55:40] About what you really haven't written about.

[00:55:44] It might not be a thing you haven't written about,

[00:55:47] but just explore more.

[00:55:50] You know I feel like you just have very strong passions.

[00:55:56] Music, food,

[00:56:01] water,

[00:56:03] and ways that are uncommon.

[00:56:05] And then how you weave all of those.

[00:56:08] And then you have the appetite,

[00:56:13] another one of your passions.

[00:56:15] So deep passions.

[00:56:17] And yeah I was thinking too,

[00:56:20] the Tardy Tardy Tardy,

[00:56:22] today when you wrote the free water post

[00:56:25] about moving over to the new one, to the kitchen.

[00:56:32] I was thinking like man,

[00:56:34] like Big Jay's kitchen will be the first news loop.

[00:56:40] Letter to turn into a restaurant.

[00:56:42] Or it has the possibility to actually become one.

[00:56:47] I appreciate that, I was thinking about that too.

[00:56:48] Yeah yeah exactly.

[00:56:50] And I guess this isn't a writing topic,

[00:56:53] but just like I guess seeing what you write through

[00:56:57] and explore.

[00:56:59] Cause I just feel like your words are very raw,

[00:57:06] very real, vulnerable,

[00:57:08] and thus like kind of exist off the page.

[00:57:11] They are flesh as we were talking about.

[00:57:15] And yeah right and that was what I was thinking like

[00:57:18] man this dude could literally write his way

[00:57:22] into like a restaurant.

[00:57:24] And I just imagine how cool that would be

[00:57:26] where like certain days or certain like playlists

[00:57:30] or like certain lighting for the hues of blues.

[00:57:35] And like the main thing you have like poetry

[00:57:39] and shit on it is like.

[00:57:41] It all runs in.

[00:57:42] Exactly I am getting,

[00:57:46] I am getting just massaged by all angles.

[00:57:50] You know what I'm saying?

[00:57:52] Yeah I think you have a way especially of like

[00:57:56] writing through things in terms of like making it

[00:58:01] about more than one thing at once too.

[00:58:04] Not in a way that's distracting,

[00:58:07] but in a way that again is more universal

[00:58:10] because it's specific and vulnerable.

[00:58:15] And yeah it's a meager answer

[00:58:19] cause yeah you wrote about food and cooking,

[00:58:23] but I was like oh like if you write more about cooking

[00:58:26] I guess you're also writing about

[00:58:29] writing about music, about everything too you know.

[00:58:33] But if I were to stop being around the bush.

[00:58:38] Nah you go bro appreciate that.

[00:58:41] I think childhood honestly I am very interested

[00:58:47] with your direction of the Ellis column too

[00:58:49] and I think childhood is just a great energy

[00:58:56] and great dropping off point

[00:59:00] and something we're trying to carry with us in a way

[00:59:05] and let go of in a way too so yeah.

[00:59:09] Appreciate that.

[00:59:10] I'm really excited to read your writing on watches.

[00:59:18] Man.

[00:59:19] Yeah.

[00:59:20] Never thought about writing about watching.

[00:59:23] I just feel like you have always,

[00:59:32] I think I've always looked up to you

[00:59:34] for just how like what's the way to put it.

[00:59:42] You know yeah when you have an obsession with something

[00:59:45] and like a fascination,

[00:59:46] like I think you're really passionate

[00:59:48] and expressive about it.

[00:59:51] And I feel like yeah I look up to that

[00:59:54] in the sense of just like really wanting to

[00:59:59] embody that myself with the things

[01:00:01] that I'm really passionate about.

[01:00:03] But yeah like when I think about you

[01:00:08] and like those moments

[01:00:14] yeah that just you know that always

[01:00:15] like kind of stick out of my mind

[01:00:17] like it's watches right.

[01:00:19] Because like you were talking about design in my world

[01:00:23] like before anyone was you know

[01:00:24] and like even just that design class

[01:00:27] like the backpacks.

[01:00:29] I mean hell even the fact that you were like

[01:00:32] cutting your own hair and also like designing watches

[01:00:36] and like had the design club.

[01:00:37] Like your initiative is just crazy you know

[01:00:40] for like pursuing like what you're curious about

[01:00:42] and what you want to know and learn more about.

[01:00:45] But I think there's something in particular

[01:00:47] about the watch that you know yeah

[01:00:50] I'm just really curious like to see, hear, read

[01:00:56] like what is so intriguing to you about watches

[01:01:01] and like see like where yeah where you go with it right.

[01:01:05] Because of course like watches just like everything else

[01:01:10] is kind of like a doorway into a lot of different things.

[01:01:14] And when I think about you know even just like

[01:01:17] philosophy and you know the image of a watch

[01:01:22] or like the clockmaker right.

[01:01:23] And like these ideas of God like I think everything

[01:01:27] just converges around the watch

[01:01:29] and like what it means for you to have that like

[01:01:31] that childhood like moment of obsession with them

[01:01:35] that I'm just super curious about.

[01:01:38] I feel very similarly with like

[01:01:39] I feel very similarly like with your magic phase you know.

[01:01:42] Yeah the magic phase was funny.

[01:01:46] Never wore a cape though.

[01:01:49] You said what?

[01:01:50] Never wear a cape.

[01:01:51] Oh yeah not yet at least.

[01:01:54] As well as well as just sports in general.

[01:01:59] But that one you know like yeah I don't know

[01:02:03] I just I feel like you know yeah maybe you're I mean

[01:02:09] cause you're just talking about

[01:02:11] you're just talking about me and my direction

[01:02:14] talking about like childhood.

[01:02:16] And I guess in a way like I have very similar

[01:02:21] thoughts for you and for Grace as well too

[01:02:26] just cause I feel like there's so much

[01:02:29] that we still can like get to know about one another

[01:02:33] through like who we've always been you know

[01:02:35] and like and we were just talking about this

[01:02:37] the other day as well how like yeah it's just crazy

[01:02:42] how we can like live in the same family

[01:02:45] and still have like different memories

[01:02:47] and different experiences of things

[01:02:49] and such different like worlds within the same world.

[01:02:54] And so how we just continue to like honor that

[01:02:57] breathe life into it and like connect with one another

[01:02:59] through our stories is something

[01:03:02] that I'm really curious about.

[01:03:05] I thought of this question as well because of you know

[01:03:08] the last episode when you're talking about like

[01:03:11] you know God could be the father that you would never have

[01:03:15] and I was like wow there's a really great essay there.

[01:03:17] Daddy issues and that relationship with

[01:03:20] that relationship was spirituality and religion.

[01:03:24] But yeah no like again like watches you know

[01:03:28] I'm looking at your glasses now like glasses for sure.

[01:03:34] I think just the whole world of like style

[01:03:36] and fashion too backpacks like yeah I just

[01:03:40] I feel like there's a lot of like tangible material

[01:03:44] like parts of your life and your story with them.

[01:03:50] Yeah just connects could connect like really beautifully

[01:03:52] to like you know your whole like philosophy of life

[01:03:55] and lessons learned and like I don't think that

[01:03:59] all your questions and ideas and curiosity

[01:04:02] and philosophy and religious studies

[01:04:04] and major stuff is as like in the clouds

[01:04:06] as it may seem I think it is very much like

[01:04:10] in your body.

[01:04:14] Oh also can't wait to like whether it's like you know

[01:04:17] essay or stories or whatever form it takes just like

[01:04:22] read your writing on like trickster energy you know

[01:04:25] because you definitely yeah you definitely have

[01:04:28] like big wild card energy and it's just like

[01:04:31] it's something that's just funny you know

[01:04:32] and I think it's really I'd be really curious to like

[01:04:36] read your take on it like you know

[01:04:41] in reflecting on yourself.

[01:04:44] See the thing with the wild card energy

[01:04:46] and trickster energy is like why write about it

[01:04:51] just be it.

[01:04:54] Fair enough yeah so maybe I just want to read

[01:04:56] more of your writing where you're like feeling

[01:04:57] where you're feeling yourself you know.

[01:04:59] Yeah yeah.

[01:05:03] Thanks bro I really appreciate that

[01:05:06] and thought about those topics at all

[01:05:11] and yeah I feel like just so excited

[01:05:14] for this next phase bro.

[01:05:17] Yeah writing has always been important to us

[01:05:23] and I think it's just had a varying degree

[01:05:29] of acceptance you know from what I said

[01:05:34] what it looks like in our lives

[01:05:38] and still stolen and turned but to like grasp it

[01:05:45] take it blame it it's awesome awesome feeling.

[01:05:51] What do you think is the word we use the most

[01:05:53] during our podcast?

[01:05:55] Do filler words count?

[01:05:57] Sure but no.

[01:05:59] Okay.

[01:06:00] So you was your first answer coin be one.

[01:06:05] I have a decent guess because I edited them

[01:06:08] in this script I could like see.

[01:06:12] See the word counts.

[01:06:13] Yeah.

[01:06:15] That's awesome.

[01:06:16] Yeah it probably is.

[01:06:20] I think that's it bro.

[01:06:21] I mean you know what did you see when you were writing?

[01:06:23] No I think it's possibly curious.

[01:06:28] Oh I'm curious.

[01:06:28] I'm curious yeah I'm curious to know

[01:06:33] or is it.

[01:06:34] That's hilarious.

[01:06:35] Yeah the filler word is definitely you know I think

[01:06:39] which is a sneaky one because

[01:06:41] It is.

[01:06:43] I could never tell like when we were talking

[01:06:48] that we were saying it ever

[01:06:50] but then when I go back and be like yo what.

[01:06:52] They're all over the place yeah.

[01:06:55] Yeah so honestly wanna work on that

[01:06:58] but I feel like do you even feel like your podcast voice

[01:07:01] is like the same as your real life voice?

[01:07:05] Or how you talk?

[01:07:09] I think so this is something funny.

[01:07:12] Well he's talking about it.

[01:07:14] Sometimes well no it's just sometimes like

[01:07:17] it's not even about like podcasts or not podcasts

[01:07:20] it's just like level of like preparation or focus

[01:07:24] because I think there are definitely times when

[01:07:26] I don't have like a clear question or response in my head

[01:07:30] that's really easy to just be rambling

[01:07:32] and like that's when the filler words come in more

[01:07:34] but there are also times recorded or not

[01:07:37] when I just feel like I'm in the pocket

[01:07:39] and don't feel the need for as many filler words.

[01:07:42] So I was about to say you know just then you know

[01:07:44] but I didn't.

[01:07:45] Here we are you know.

[01:07:50] So I think the dynamic is funny for sure.

[01:07:53] I'm also curious how much it really matters

[01:07:59] because people be talking about filler words

[01:08:02] like they're a really bad thing

[01:08:04] and I think they can be but they're also personable

[01:08:10] and it's like even when you consider like sound effects

[01:08:14] or things that I just say a lot.

[01:08:18] Friends have pointed out just how much I say

[01:08:21] what's up dog and like ooh wee or god damn.

[01:08:24] What's up dog?

[01:08:25] Yeah what's up dog.

[01:08:26] Yeah I say what's up dog a lot.

[01:08:28] In life?

[01:08:29] Yeah.

[01:08:31] I guess I heard.

[01:08:32] I mean you know I agree.

[01:08:34] What's up dog is.

[01:08:36] I agree both in like every dog and cat that I see

[01:08:40] like with the what's up dog

[01:08:42] and I think that in those different words

[01:08:47] and sound effects like they just are other forms

[01:08:50] of expression and making someone feel

[01:08:52] like more of a whole person.

[01:08:54] 100%.

[01:08:55] And yeah I do think that I would also like

[01:09:00] to be more concise and precise with my language

[01:09:04] and use filler words less

[01:09:08] and I think that's just something

[01:09:09] till I be practicing and also recognize

[01:09:12] that it's something that you know comes with time.

[01:09:16] You know that's fun man.

[01:09:18] I might not edit these last few episodes.

[01:09:22] Okay.

[01:09:23] Just make them raw bro.

[01:09:24] Yeah.

[01:09:25] I feel like there's something to it

[01:09:26] because and I thought about doing it earlier

[01:09:31] but you know as soon as you start to hear the podcast

[01:09:34] and you start to hear the pauses

[01:09:38] or the ums or filler words you know what I'm saying.

[01:09:45] But you want to perfect it

[01:09:50] and honestly I have felt like it has made them better.

[01:09:53] But for these last few like it's like,

[01:09:57] oh this bro, it's the government name now.

[01:09:59] You know what I'm saying?

[01:10:00] It's just the raw.

[01:10:00] Oh this is dangerous.

[01:10:02] Yeah.

[01:10:04] I wonder how many will catch that but yeah.

[01:10:10] Something feels good about that.

[01:10:12] In terms of even wrapping up this fun freestyle episode

[01:10:18] I mean if you're listening right now,

[01:10:22] if you've made it this far,

[01:10:24] you made it this far.

[01:10:26] Thank you.

[01:10:28] Appreciate you.

[01:10:31] Reach out if we don't already know you,

[01:10:33] our mom and Ajani,

[01:10:36] so that we can give you a hug in person

[01:10:38] or greet you however you would like.

[01:10:40] But I think that this is.

[01:10:43] I can kiss Jan, Jan A that's married but.

[01:10:45] Yeah right.

[01:10:48] Part of this as we've been saying

[01:10:51] is really about the rooting in our lives

[01:10:58] in a place, in our purpose

[01:11:00] and so much of that has been about,

[01:11:05] so all of it has been about our relationships

[01:11:07] with the people around us

[01:11:08] and I've definitely listened to a lot of podcasts

[01:11:15] where I felt closer with the people who were involved

[01:11:18] and as the host of this space,

[01:11:21] would definitely like to offer myself and Miles

[01:11:25] as people who are really like this in real life too.

[01:11:29] And people always down to connect

[01:11:32] and learn from you and talk more,

[01:11:35] maybe become friends, work on something cool.

[01:11:39] Man, that's crazy.

[01:11:41] We've never, I feel like nother made that invite personally.

[01:11:48] I love the way you shared.

[01:11:49] Nah, I haven't.

[01:11:50] Yeah, because it was always at the start or the end,

[01:11:53] just like oh, we have a review,

[01:11:55] thanks for listening.

[01:11:57] Blah, blah, blah.

[01:11:58] Nah, this is about real life shit.

[01:12:00] It is, bruh.

[01:12:01] No, I really appreciate that though, Jan.

[01:12:04] Yeah, reach out seriously.

[01:12:10] Because yeah, we're accessible

[01:12:13] and love being so,

[01:12:19] dream for the day where I can choose to not be,

[01:12:22] but I'm gonna read your text or IG DM or email

[01:12:28] if it's sent, I can't act like it's in a flood

[01:12:32] of other DMs calling for my attention.

[01:12:36] So seriously reach out.

[01:12:41] Yeah, thanks.

[01:12:43] And then I think for me as well,

[01:12:44] just as like a parting thing,

[01:12:46] I'm really excited to listen to all these episodes now.

[01:12:49] Really, bro?

[01:12:50] Are you not?

[01:12:51] You don't want to?

[01:12:52] I need a little space.

[01:12:53] I think, no, I definitely need some time,

[01:12:56] but I also feel like that's,

[01:12:59] I feel that as a part of this process as well,

[01:13:02] I'm just sending back to them

[01:13:04] and going back and picking up all the great little

[01:13:09] like nuggets of wisdom, the seeds,

[01:13:11] shout out San Kofa as an idea, as a concept,

[01:13:15] as a practice in Way of Being.

[01:13:19] Because that's funny.

[01:13:21] Because no, I mean, that shit is really important.

[01:13:24] It gets back to what I was saying about

[01:13:26] not knowing how many points this project

[01:13:31] is gonna be putting on the scoreboard, so to speak.

[01:13:36] Because I'm sure there's things that I'm gonna hear

[01:13:41] and notice and learn and listen and reflect back on

[01:13:43] going back through all these episodes.

[01:13:45] I mean, obviously we're in the conversations

[01:13:48] and you more than me a part of editing them

[01:13:52] and all of that, but I think there's something

[01:13:55] to be said for going through them as a listener.

[01:13:59] Right?

[01:14:00] And that's also something that we learned early on

[01:14:02] is just how we were really doing a lot of jobs at once

[01:14:06] with this and all of it has somehow just refined down

[01:14:13] into writing and reading and being ourselves.

[01:14:18] Right.

[01:14:19] But that does include listening

[01:14:21] and listening to books in general, podcasts in general

[01:14:27] and our own work in this podcast.

[01:14:33] So yeah, I am excited for that.

[01:14:36] Yeah, same man, same.

[01:14:38] Yeah man, just really love and appreciate you, bro.

[01:14:44] Yeah, love and appreciate you too, bro.

[01:14:46] It's been a journey and yeah,

[01:14:48] I think we've both been just really patient

[01:14:51] with each other in times where we've irked

[01:14:57] one another just like brothers do.

[01:14:59] I think it was only a fraction of love

[01:15:05] and it was always all love and yeah.

[01:15:12] Make it sound like Nick is really cheap.

[01:15:15] No, but really.

[01:15:16] No love lost.

[01:15:19] No love lost, but.

[01:15:23] No, bro.

[01:15:24] I know.

[01:15:25] Great.

[01:15:26] No, no, truly I love you, bro.

[01:15:27] Yeah, seriously.

[01:15:28] That's what it's all about, you know what I'm saying?

[01:15:29] True, bro.

[01:15:30] I feel like, yeah, it's like, yeah.

[01:15:39] It's bigger than the podcast, you know what I'm saying?

[01:15:42] Right.

[01:15:43] I feel like, yeah, for so much of our time

[01:15:47] across continents and places

[01:15:50] and now in the same city and place.

[01:15:52] At the same table.

[01:15:53] Right.

[01:15:54] Across from each other.

[01:15:55] Exactly.

[01:15:56] Eye to eye.

[01:15:57] Over years time doing this for fun.

[01:16:00] That's wild.

[01:16:01] Yeah, for fun and freedom, bro.

[01:16:04] No, it's.

[01:16:05] Oh, we need to put those for sale again.

[01:16:07] We do actually.

[01:16:08] We need to just do a little drop, you know what I mean?

[01:16:10] Right?

[01:16:11] A little pre-order.

[01:16:13] But yeah, seriously, man,

[01:16:15] just love you so, so much.

[01:16:19] Yeah, I love you so much, Miles.

[01:16:21] Yeah, but just even more still even more excited

[01:16:26] for like the flourishing I know will take place

[01:16:30] when we're both just like in Arizona.

[01:16:32] In Arizona, June, you mentioned like NERG.

[01:16:35] Shout out to Rika.

[01:16:36] Yes, seriously.

[01:16:38] Yeah, this is a big leap corny of that

[01:16:40] that it feels like that in a sense.

[01:16:43] I'm the fly.

[01:16:44] Yeah.

[01:16:46] So yeah, bro.

[01:16:49] Peace.

[01:16:53] So peace and security.

[01:16:54] Another boondock shout out.

[01:17:01] Thank you so much for listening to this episode

[01:17:04] of Real Ballers Read.

[01:17:05] The next two will be very special episodes

[01:17:08] with our parents.

[01:17:09] So excited to catch y'all in those.

[01:17:12] Hope you enjoy the rest of your day.