97. Twenty-One Questions

[00:00:09] What's up and welcome back to Real Ballers Read. We are here in episode 97. Really excited. Miles and I, the two of us to talk about 21 questions. This is our episode on questions, the power of questions, how much we reflect and talk on that talk about them on a daily basis.

[00:00:29] And I'll start with the opening question of Miles. How are you?

[00:00:34] Bruh. That's funny. I'm doing well.

[00:00:42] Just eating some home run in pizza.

[00:00:47] That's right. It's really good. Frozen. I think the frozen is better than, you know, the time that I've had it in person somehow tastes more fresh.

[00:00:57] Yeah. That's good. That's good.

[00:01:02] Of course, you know, we most recently have been talking about how are you as a question that's more important than we often make it out to be, you know, I think it's one of those ones that it's just really easy to throw out there and, you know, have someone say, good, thanks, how are you?

[00:01:20] You know, but I'm curious for you, Miles, like what, why is how are you such an important question for you right now?

[00:01:28] I've been thinking about this for years probably.

[00:01:32] Because I always thought, how are you isn't even a question that's good at achieving what it's intending to achieve.

[00:01:43] Really?

[00:01:44] Yeah. Because I think at a certain point when anything becomes trite, like which I don't think it is an intention, but it isn't just like order of the words and some city like people just reflexively.

[00:02:03] Yeah, we'll say good. We'll keep it very light.

[00:02:06] Yeah.

[00:02:07] And I think if how are you is the question that we ask even when we say it like slowly or like, you know, staring someone in the eye like, oh, how are you really like it still felt as if to say how you truly feel is impolite.

[00:02:27] So as you like, what is a question that you feel is better than how are you?

[00:02:36] Oh, uh, based on what I said, based on what you just said, I think.

[00:02:43] I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is just how are you feeling, which isn't necessarily much better. But I think situating it naming like a feeling does at least like I think offer a little bit of permission to get into how you're actually feeling and like whatever those emotions are.

[00:03:03] I know for me, really just wanting to increase my vocabulary, my emotional intelligence around like being able to name things that can sometimes be hard to name that question specifically of like how are you feeling sometimes gets at that a little more.

[00:03:21] But, you know, I think to it also just depends on the person as always.

[00:03:28] I think in some ways asking what did you eat today can like show more care for a person that even asking like how are you, you know, because because maybe even part of it right.

[00:03:39] It's a little coded but it's like, you know, if someone comes in and they're all tight and you're like, what'd you eat today?

[00:03:44] You know, they're like actually nothing like I'm hangry right now, you know what I'm saying?

[00:03:49] Like, like sometimes like like, you know, asking a question can like indirectly show a little more care than just passively acting like you care.

[00:04:00] When you ask how are you, you know?

[00:04:02] That's not. That's really fair.

[00:04:05] The other funny thing about how are you to your point of the just as reflexivity is like how

[00:04:16] easy it is to be like, hey, how are you?

[00:04:19] I'm good.

[00:04:20] How are you?

[00:04:21] I'm great.

[00:04:22] How are you?

[00:04:23] I'm saying like three times like an infinite loop and asking the question, you know.

[00:04:27] And so maybe that's part of your point too is just how whether it's like in a one

[00:04:33] conversation or over the course of many conversations, just so easy to get stuck at that shallow

[00:04:40] level of like a question that really is like a lot shorter than the answer can ever be,

[00:04:47] you know, like the honest true answer.

[00:04:50] Right.

[00:04:51] You know what's what's great is man, this is another element of questions is when

[00:05:00] you receive an answer that is unexpected, you often lose track of what you're going to

[00:05:06] ask.

[00:05:07] You know what I'm saying?

[00:05:08] And that's a good feeling.

[00:05:09] Is that what just happened to you?

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:11] Yeah.

[00:05:12] And the important is what I'm saying or being like, yeah, cut off guard a bit.

[00:05:18] Oh, this is what I was thinking like.

[00:05:22] I feel.

[00:05:24] If 99 percent.

[00:05:28] A high number of people were to truly answer.

[00:05:34] I think it would be along the lines of like, I am waiting.

[00:05:39] To be entertained, to be, you know, swept off my feet, called to adventure.

[00:05:44] I feel like people do just say good because I think most people are bored a lot of the time.

[00:05:54] Honestly, yeah, most folks don't do jobs that they like.

[00:05:58] You know, I like my work, but you know, I'm not bouncing off the walls.

[00:06:03] Excited to talk about it to any and everybody, you know what I'm saying?

[00:06:08] And there's still a part of the mundanity of the every day.

[00:06:14] We're like, even if you have a lot of passion for your work, which I do.

[00:06:20] It's not always reflected in like the day to day.

[00:06:24] You know what I'm saying?

[00:06:25] Yeah, like you do too.

[00:06:26] You know, like I feel like we are a few folks that I know that like actually

[00:06:31] are in career past that align with like their overall her.

[00:06:36] Her base or like even interest.

[00:06:39] Yeah.

[00:06:40] Yeah.

[00:06:42] So do you think you agree?

[00:06:46] Do you think people always are wanting to be entertained?

[00:06:50] Do you think that they're bored?

[00:06:51] Do you think like as much is entertaining as we have access to now?

[00:06:57] Do you think that's a good or bad thing?

[00:07:03] Or were you even say it's a good or bad thing?

[00:07:06] 20 questions.

[00:07:07] There's a lot of questions in there.

[00:07:08] There's a lot of questions.

[00:07:11] And it's also it's always just making me think, you know, if you're listening

[00:07:14] in Miles and I as the hosts of Real Ballers Read, ask a lot of questions

[00:07:20] on the show and we're constantly asking questions of ourselves and one another.

[00:07:26] Even just looking back on this show and all the episodes we've done.

[00:07:31] I definitely have felt like I'm getting better at asking questions

[00:07:34] and part of it here, right?

[00:07:37] Is in understanding exactly what that means because it's not just like asking

[00:07:43] a lot of questions.

[00:07:43] It's also like knowing which ones to ask and when and why and being

[00:07:49] able to explain it, I think.

[00:07:52] But to directly answer your question, I am more so curious, just like

[00:07:59] how good even like as a word or as a as an idea.

[00:08:07] Has that use of just like being a shield, right?

[00:08:11] Or like how much of good is actually being honest or just like kind of

[00:08:15] like closing the conversation or or.

[00:08:19] You know, almost being like automatic to the point where it's like, you know,

[00:08:23] even a shield of having just like an automatic response that you really

[00:08:26] don't have to like get into it or think through something.

[00:08:31] Because, you know, and maybe that's rightfully so.

[00:08:34] Because I mean, when was the last time you heard someone

[00:08:38] like who was asked how are you say like that?

[00:08:40] You know, or like not good.

[00:08:42] I mean, I think that that always does like.

[00:08:46] You know, flare up a little like, oh, this is like cause for attention here.

[00:08:51] And and sometimes you don't want that.

[00:08:53] You know what I'm saying?

[00:08:53] Like sometimes like, like I will just say good just to,

[00:08:57] you know, kind of like move on or whatever.

[00:09:00] But I think it's usually situated in this larger context of like

[00:09:05] like how much are we even really truly like attentive and aware of like how

[00:09:09] we're feeling in any given moment?

[00:09:11] You know, and I think I think the other the other part of it too to that

[00:09:17] point and just like on the power of language that I'm always thinking about

[00:09:20] is that I do find it important and I do value like saying I'm great or

[00:09:27] like I'm doing really well or like I'm grateful or something like just

[00:09:32] to get around that word good or fine, you know, or like OK, right?

[00:09:38] And I'm wondering for you, like how much do you think like even like saying a word

[00:09:45] that's like a little more positive like helps as opposed to just like further

[00:09:50] being more of a shield or lie?

[00:09:55] No, I think a word that's more descriptive and rare does help.

[00:10:02] A lot, I think just even for it to be fun.

[00:10:05] I mean, just like smiling the actors.

[00:10:08] My smiling makes you feel happy.

[00:10:10] I think it's the same with the word.

[00:10:13] You didn't answer my question on you about being entertained or bored.

[00:10:20] But it's all good. Oh, oh, I see.

[00:10:23] I see. OK, so maybe yeah, I think I was proposing there.

[00:10:26] Just like want to be entertained like most of the time.

[00:10:31] That is what I'm saying.

[00:10:32] Yeah, those folks like energy is pretty low.

[00:10:37] That's why we seek the entertainment out.

[00:10:40] It's a human thing.

[00:10:41] Yeah, I'm not saying yeah, I don't think it's good or bad.

[00:10:44] It's just like what we do as home.

[00:10:47] Yeah, I think maybe maybe part of it is I think that entertained

[00:10:50] is like a pretty low bar.

[00:10:52] Like I think I believe or like to believe that people want to be

[00:10:57] fascinated and like enthralled and curious.

[00:11:01] I mean, it is it is.

[00:11:03] But like, I don't know.

[00:11:04] It's just like, I guess in the context of how you said it,

[00:11:07] I'm just like, oh, like someone would rather, you know,

[00:11:10] you just start dancing in front of them, you know,

[00:11:14] and like doing a little little scat, you know, and and

[00:11:18] and shucking and driving in front of them, you know,

[00:11:19] just to like entertain them a little bit,

[00:11:21] then like actually being in a conversation, you know,

[00:11:23] like I think entertainment comes along with these deeper feelings,

[00:11:27] but the entertainment itself is like pretty low, you know.

[00:11:31] And and of course, you know, I can't help but just.

[00:11:35] Think to or, you know, share that the first image that comes

[00:11:38] to mind when you say people just want to be entertained

[00:11:40] is people on phones and on screens, you know, and even reading books,

[00:11:45] right? And for how like passive each of those activities can look and feel.

[00:11:51] It's like, oh, damn, you know, like

[00:11:53] if it was only about people wanting to be entertained, like then,

[00:11:57] yeah, of course we would be headed towards everyone

[00:11:59] just being on their screens all the time, you know, and like

[00:12:02] and just, you know, getting a little like

[00:12:05] little grip. Exactly.

[00:12:08] Exactly. Little little sugar drip from the from the hamster bottle,

[00:12:11] you know what I'm saying?

[00:12:13] Mm hmm.

[00:12:14] I mean, I'm even thinking about greetings from other cultures

[00:12:18] though, and how like in the Western world,

[00:12:23] which tries to make itself seem most events might be the least

[00:12:27] events. Yeah, right.

[00:12:28] In terms of this kind of thing, because, you know, just as like

[00:12:32] you know, all the melanin

[00:12:35] left, you know, the human human body, like I wonder what left

[00:12:39] liquidize as we went from, you know, so

[00:12:44] bono to all are you?

[00:12:45] You know, of course.

[00:12:46] It's like I am as we are to.

[00:12:48] Yeah, to blue to.

[00:12:49] Yeah, exactly.

[00:12:51] Deep deep recognition, you know.

[00:12:54] Yeah, no, I think, you know, that's something that

[00:12:58] I'd have to fact check myself.

[00:13:00] But, you know, like the being in Germany, I started thinking

[00:13:02] about these things a lot more because Guten tag, right?

[00:13:06] Good day.

[00:13:07] Good morning.

[00:13:09] Right. Like good as like something that you want to claim.

[00:13:12] For sure it does have that etymological

[00:13:16] route with like God.

[00:13:18] But also, right?

[00:13:21] Like if you're talking about like being in Europe and like

[00:13:24] why there's not always nice, like you say, oh, good morning.

[00:13:27] You know, suddenly it's like, wait a second, like it's a good day.

[00:13:29] You know, like this is something to appreciate, right?

[00:13:33] And and it almost does like impose it again.

[00:13:36] Right.

[00:13:37] Talking about language and like how it imposes, but also perceives

[00:13:41] in a way.

[00:13:43] But yeah, no, I definitely see what you're saying on that

[00:13:45] evolution language.

[00:13:46] Is there are there greetings or

[00:13:51] you know, questions that you are particularly fond of right now?

[00:13:55] Like do you like

[00:13:57] other questions that you like right now?

[00:14:00] That's hilarious.

[00:14:00] Yeah. I mean, it's a good question.

[00:14:04] Oh, no, one that I use this past weekend in a context

[00:14:09] that I guess was lirty ish, but I think was helpful

[00:14:13] in thinking about just whenever I meet someone is like, you know,

[00:14:20] what I really asked them like

[00:14:24] because they asked me what I did and I asked back like, what is all

[00:14:29] something

[00:14:31] side of work that you're most curious about right after?

[00:14:35] Because I just didn't want to just have the same.

[00:14:37] Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[00:14:39] Right. Right.

[00:14:40] So I thought was the perfect counter.

[00:14:42] And then again, like that whole route was I felt a lot more fun.

[00:14:46] Yeah. So you want to entertain?

[00:14:48] I do. I do.

[00:14:53] No, I really do.

[00:14:56] But yeah, that that rather the pop who I'm positive was a lot

[00:15:00] more fun. We didn't talk about work for the rest of the time.

[00:15:04] And just feel like I actually got to know them better,

[00:15:08] which is goal is to connect with someone else.

[00:15:13] So, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

[00:15:17] And it's something, you know, again, talking about just how we've

[00:15:21] grown in this skill through the podcast.

[00:15:22] I mean, there are definitely sometimes when I feel a little self conscious,

[00:15:26] like it's just how easy it is for me to turn any conversation

[00:15:30] into like a deep interview.

[00:15:32] But, you know, I genuinely want to know.

[00:15:34] Like I generally am curious and want to show that I care.

[00:15:39] But I think part of it too just might be that in conversation,

[00:15:43] it's always better to.

[00:15:46] Like share more of ourselves as well.

[00:15:49] Like like I think like we did.

[00:15:51] We did do that a decent amount in Real Ballers read.

[00:15:53] I think, you know, always sharing our perspectives and stuff.

[00:15:56] But only a few guys really asked us good questions back though.

[00:16:00] Oh, really? You think not a few.

[00:16:03] At least 10.

[00:16:06] I mean, what do you feel?

[00:16:08] Oh, no, I actually agree.

[00:16:11] I mean, I think I think part of it is just

[00:16:15] and maybe this is another place we could talk about assumptions

[00:16:18] about people, but I do think that most people like talking about

[00:16:22] themselves and are totally fine talking about themselves

[00:16:25] and not necessarily like reciprocating interest.

[00:16:30] And I'm not exactly sure why that is.

[00:16:32] I mean, I think, you know, we all not maybe not all,

[00:16:35] but like a lot of us have things that we're really interested in

[00:16:37] and that get us excited.

[00:16:40] And so it can just feel like a lot that we do want to share.

[00:16:44] And even for myself, I know that when I get into that mode,

[00:16:47] like something that I'm mindful of is like, oh, wait, hold on.

[00:16:49] Like let me just like take a breath and like,

[00:16:52] you know, not just make this like a one sided like word vomit

[00:16:56] into another person, but like actually like ask questions

[00:16:59] and like step back and listen as well.

[00:17:02] So maybe maybe part of that assumption or question

[00:17:05] that I have is just how well do people listen actually?

[00:17:09] And why? It's a really good question.

[00:17:13] Because I would say I am certainly a selective listener.

[00:17:20] And it's not because I don't care.

[00:17:24] But I'm like, I'm like letting the emotions and like,

[00:17:28] you know, I'm just like kind of absorbing someone's energy.

[00:17:32] But I feel like that's bigger than the words always.

[00:17:36] Yeah, I'm also thinking about other things.

[00:17:41] Yeah, I was actually just reading this book

[00:17:45] about this young adult phase called emerging adulthood.

[00:17:50] That wasn't the name of the book.

[00:17:52] The book was actually about parenting young adults like us in our 20s.

[00:17:59] But one of the key traits of the emerging adult period

[00:18:06] is thinking about yourself more than anyone else.

[00:18:10] And it can come across as like an archaicist to parents

[00:18:15] or folks older than their nons.

[00:18:17] But like we're just like this 20s age range

[00:18:21] is actually characterized by being like very self involved.

[00:18:26] So I wonder if that's part of it, too.

[00:18:29] In terms of like, like why we care that people don't ask us good questions or like.

[00:18:36] Why? Like we find a lot of folks.

[00:18:37] Why I might. Oh, I see.

[00:18:40] I see. Yeah.

[00:18:42] Yeah, no, I guess beyond the age, though.

[00:18:47] I'm not sure.

[00:18:49] Yeah, it's it's funny.

[00:18:51] Like I have been reading a lot of books

[00:18:53] recently, honestly, that talk about generational gaps and differences.

[00:19:00] One of them that anxious generation.

[00:19:02] And I wonder how much of this thinking

[00:19:07] around generations or even like the average person

[00:19:12] and generations are in general just feels kind of like messy.

[00:19:17] They are stereotypes and they're always going to be

[00:19:22] slightly accurate, slightly inaccurate.

[00:19:26] But they're always like

[00:19:29] even coming from a more judge, major, major,

[00:19:31] mental point of view than astrology is.

[00:19:34] It's like periods and fun.

[00:19:36] Oh, you know, surprising.

[00:19:37] No, it isn't.

[00:19:38] But generations like almost no one talks about them

[00:19:43] in a positive way, like, oh, boomers, great people.

[00:19:45] Like, yeah, Gen X got to love them.

[00:19:48] Like, oh, see, that's.

[00:19:50] That's really interesting, you know, like awesome.

[00:19:53] Yeah, well, and maybe that's maybe that's part of it is that.

[00:19:57] Folks who participate and create

[00:20:00] that world of generations are usually coming from a place

[00:20:05] that like we're doing this to make an authoritative stance

[00:20:08] or to like make it as clear as possible.

[00:20:10] And it's real easy for people to take those authoritative

[00:20:14] stances into their own hands as authorities judging other generations.

[00:20:18] Right. So like the answer to my to the question

[00:20:22] and I guess this is the same with mine, too.

[00:20:25] When I asked, like, do you think the average person's bored?

[00:20:28] Like I said, like most folks are.

[00:20:33] And I'm thinking like what I say there's a specific

[00:20:37] generation that listens

[00:20:41] worse than the other ones.

[00:20:43] I see. Right.

[00:20:44] Because I think we all do in our own way.

[00:20:48] But you couldn't measure or say which one because we're human.

[00:20:51] We're all still living through

[00:20:55] like the same time currently. Yeah.

[00:20:58] We can all be shaped by the same experiences

[00:21:02] in the past that we weren't alive for.

[00:21:05] But yeah, I just find that interesting.

[00:21:08] See, I was actually just talking about generations with

[00:21:12] former former podcast, our former podcast guest of ours,

[00:21:16] Kendall Bryant.

[00:21:17] Shout out to them.

[00:21:18] And I mean, they were they were talking about

[00:21:22] generations and this idea of intergenerational responsibility

[00:21:27] in ways I had actually never heard someone talk about before.

[00:21:32] But I think even with.

[00:21:35] Holding like even as I hold similar

[00:21:39] uncertainties around and questions around generations.

[00:21:44] I came out of that conversation, you know, knowing that

[00:21:47] there are real.

[00:21:50] Dynamics related to like age difference, right?

[00:21:52] And like, you know, where your brain was at, where your body was at,

[00:21:57] where your where the people that you identified socially

[00:22:00] like have been at when certain things happen, right?

[00:22:04] And.

[00:22:06] Of course, I, you know, I always think about

[00:22:11] just how something like 9 11 and like how conscious you were

[00:22:14] like of that situation does does create like a generational rift.

[00:22:21] Even the introduction of iPhones and technology, right?

[00:22:24] There there at least in the last few decades have seemed to be.

[00:22:30] More disruptors almost to like a more natural

[00:22:34] sense of pace with generations, which is, you know, often,

[00:22:37] oftentimes just more about like the fact that like we are of a different

[00:22:43] generation than our parents who are of a different generation

[00:22:46] than the people who were like just older than them and so on.

[00:22:51] And it also part of it too is that.

[00:22:55] So much of that science in the larger conversation is very.

[00:22:59] Backwards looking.

[00:23:01] I have not been more like more or less aware of the ways in which

[00:23:07] the idea of generations.

[00:23:10] Is also prioritized for like what it means to like be more long term

[00:23:14] thinking for like future generations and like how we're taking care of them.

[00:23:17] Like most of that talk is in the world of like climate and environment, right?

[00:23:21] But not not anywhere else really.

[00:23:29] What do you feel about people asking the same question back to you?

[00:23:34] I don't mind it really.

[00:23:36] Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:36] I feel like you get frustrated with it sometimes and that's OK.

[00:23:40] But not not unless you ask it.

[00:23:45] After you answer, but if you ask it right away, then I'm like, I asked you first.

[00:23:52] You know, so that is true.

[00:23:53] Yeah, that is true.

[00:23:54] But yeah, do you think people listen in our generally good

[00:24:00] conversation, such partners?

[00:24:02] Like what do you think even makes like a perfect one?

[00:24:06] Well, I thought this for a while.

[00:24:12] Inspired by this book Metaphors we live by by what was listening is named.

[00:24:20] Oh, yeah, George Lockoff and Mark Johnson, but a critical distinction

[00:24:26] that they make isn't the difference between seeing conversations as war

[00:24:31] and seeing conversations as dancing.

[00:24:34] And right when I read that, I remember exactly like where I was.

[00:24:39] I was like in an airport reading it.

[00:24:41] I don't remember exactly the time of it.

[00:24:44] But I just decided right there.

[00:24:45] I was like, I'm only going to see conversations as dances, you know?

[00:24:48] And I think that like a great dancer can dance well with anybody,

[00:24:56] no matter like their own dancing skill.

[00:24:59] Because I think so much of dancing as well as conversation is really just

[00:25:03] being warmed up to do it, right?

[00:25:05] Because because.

[00:25:08] Of course, there are people that are going to quote like really good dancers

[00:25:12] and you know, they have all the choreography and the skills.

[00:25:15] But I think there's something beautiful about like anyone's ability

[00:25:18] to just like dance and express themselves through their body.

[00:25:21] And I feel similarly with our voices and language and stories

[00:25:24] because as we've seen on the podcast.

[00:25:28] People can really surprise you, which is like the their experiences,

[00:25:32] the lessons learned, all the complexity, like who they are

[00:25:36] and how they identify and relate to people in the world around them.

[00:25:41] So I think.

[00:25:43] Yeah, again, something that just became more and more clear

[00:25:48] in hosting the podcast is that when you create the space.

[00:25:52] For someone to quote unquote, like dance.

[00:25:58] Yeah, it can be a really fun time, right?

[00:26:00] And and so I think that again, it really does depend on the people.

[00:26:06] And if we're just saying conversations is like a duo or like a pair of people.

[00:26:12] Yeah, all it takes is one person to have that energy, that belief,

[00:26:17] that spirit of wanting to connect and like have fun in conversation

[00:26:20] that I think can really help. Of course, you know, the other person

[00:26:23] can definitely be dragging their feet or not have the energy for it.

[00:26:28] And that's totally fine, right?

[00:26:30] Because like we're not always in the same

[00:26:32] like head or heart space with someone else.

[00:26:35] But I think that the chances of having like a great conversation,

[00:26:41] listening and feeling listened to

[00:26:45] like, yeah, those those experiences come along way more often

[00:26:49] when someone like cares to do them, honestly.

[00:26:52] And it's like more confident in that.

[00:26:55] What was the last question that.

[00:26:59] Inspired you.

[00:27:02] To make.

[00:27:04] A life choice, a big decision.

[00:27:08] Doesn't need to be that that big, but.

[00:27:11] Hmm.

[00:27:12] What's a question that I've asked recently?

[00:27:15] Yeah, that inspired a big life choice.

[00:27:17] Yeah. Hmm.

[00:27:21] Um, a few come to mind.

[00:27:23] I'll start with.

[00:27:26] One question of what if.

[00:27:29] I.

[00:27:31] Published on Substack every day.

[00:27:33] Yeah.

[00:27:35] I think that what if questions are really powerful.

[00:27:41] When they're like applied, right?

[00:27:42] Like sometimes like it's like, oh, what if, you know,

[00:27:45] what if X, Y, Z person like didn't get shot or like what if

[00:27:48] like this happened instead of this?

[00:27:50] Like, I think when it gets into the hypothetical realm,

[00:27:53] historically, it can be a little annoying.

[00:27:56] But when it's situated in like the present

[00:27:59] and in like possibilities of the future,

[00:28:03] asking what if can be like really bold, right?

[00:28:05] And I think part of the courage of asking questions

[00:28:08] is that you're putting yourself in a position to be surprised

[00:28:11] and you're kind of recognizing the fact that you don't know

[00:28:14] what's going to happen, but you're willing to find out,

[00:28:17] right? And I think that what if question for me around like,

[00:28:22] what if I did just write every day and like publish every day

[00:28:28] and really make a practice of it was something where

[00:28:32] I thought about it a lot.

[00:28:33] I've, you know, said I was going to do it and then like

[00:28:36] backtracked or tried it and then like put it down

[00:28:40] or try to convince myself out of it.

[00:28:43] But it's something about being situated in the question

[00:28:46] of like what if how good could this possibly be?

[00:28:52] Like how transformative could this process be?

[00:28:56] Yeah, that just really has opened my mind to trusting in the process,

[00:29:01] right? And really being faithful to that process

[00:29:05] as well as just attentive and sensitive of like how I'm changing

[00:29:09] and how I'm feeling along the way.

[00:29:13] Steady. Yeah. Thanks, man. Thanks.

[00:29:16] And so, you know, for for you listening,

[00:29:20] you know, I'm on sub stack now as Big J's Kitchen,

[00:29:24] which has been really fun.

[00:29:26] Posting there the last couple of weeks every day.

[00:29:29] And yeah, I feel great.

[00:29:32] I feel like I'm really warming up.

[00:29:36] And that's an awesome feeling, especially after feeling

[00:29:41] like it's been really easy to feel discouraged in my writing practice

[00:29:44] and overwhelmed.

[00:29:45] And earlier today, even I was just reflecting on the difference

[00:29:49] between overwhelm and abundance because I do

[00:29:56] when when when I, you know, I'm in the right kind of headspace for it.

[00:29:59] Do recognize that I feel abundant in my writing.

[00:30:05] But a lot of times I can feel anxiety inducing, right?

[00:30:09] And it can feel stressful and like everything is chaotic and disorganized.

[00:30:14] But again, being faithful to that process is just showing up every day for it

[00:30:18] and creating more time and space in my day

[00:30:21] to write and to process through all that stuff

[00:30:25] and reshare things and reflect on the process openly

[00:30:28] as a public work in progress has been really empowering for me.

[00:30:33] So tell me a little bit more about this idea

[00:30:38] of the path of total totality, one of your reach

[00:30:43] reach and pieces. Yeah.

[00:30:45] Talked about this.

[00:30:46] I thought this was really interesting.

[00:30:48] Yeah. And you talk about obviously questions in a piece, too.

[00:30:53] So yeah, exactly. Exactly.

[00:30:55] Well, no, thanks for. Break it now.

[00:30:57] Yeah. Thanks for asking me about it.

[00:30:59] So specifically, path to totality is a phrase that I found when reading

[00:31:04] about the eclipse, right? It's the area

[00:31:08] on land in which you can see the full total eclipse

[00:31:11] and this happened a few weeks ago.

[00:31:15] And I couldn't help but recognize in that phrase, path to totality,

[00:31:21] some like profoundly insightful

[00:31:24] word or concept for what it means to be on a path of totality as a human being.

[00:31:30] And I really held that question and was like,

[00:31:34] this isn't something that I could just Google, right?

[00:31:36] I mean, I even tried.

[00:31:37] But of course, everything that came up for path to totality

[00:31:41] was related to the eclipse.

[00:31:43] And I actually started to just appreciate pretty immediately how

[00:31:48] that made it a really great question.

[00:31:50] There are a lot of times and I've like written and reflected on this a bit

[00:31:54] beforehand, there are a lot of times when I'll have a question

[00:31:57] and be really excited about it and I'll be too excited.

[00:32:01] I'll Google the answer and then whatever I see, it'll kind of ruin it.

[00:32:05] You know, and I'll be like, oh, like, I don't know if I should have did that

[00:32:08] because like I got this BS answer or or even I got the answer that I wanted.

[00:32:13] And it just feels underwhelming in a way.

[00:32:16] And simultaneously, I just have had some experiences where

[00:32:22] I'll think of a question.

[00:32:24] I'll be really curious about something and I'll feel so gratified

[00:32:27] when the answer just like comes to me through like conversation with a friend

[00:32:32] or just like randomly like walking down the street.

[00:32:35] And then, yeah, see something.

[00:32:39] See like a tree and then suddenly like, oh, wait, like that actually

[00:32:42] just answered my question in a bit.

[00:32:43] It's kind of hard to describe, but I think it does just emphasize for me

[00:32:50] just like again, that sacred power of questions and how abundant

[00:32:56] like answers are and insights are when we're just like open enough to listen to them.

[00:33:01] So in the particular case of the path of totality,

[00:33:04] what was so wild is that I'm thinking about this question.

[00:33:07] What does this mean for our lives as human beings?

[00:33:10] And then our sibling Kai like straight up sent me a picture of

[00:33:16] like the definition or like an imagined definition of what the path of totality would be.

[00:33:22] And I was like, yo, Grace, this is nuts, because like I was literally

[00:33:24] just thinking about this and this is the exact like answer that I needed to hear.

[00:33:29] And.

[00:33:31] And it was from a book.

[00:33:32] It was from a book that I read years ago and really love.

[00:33:35] I recommended to a lot of people its emerging strategy by a dreamy brown.

[00:33:39] And even the quote itself was found mysteriously on a sign

[00:33:45] at a laundry house in Hawaii.

[00:33:47] So just the levels, the layers of like

[00:33:50] synchronicity for this to all come about was really powerful.

[00:33:54] And I'll share I'll share the quote just in case you're wondering

[00:33:57] like what is it?

[00:33:58] What does it mean?

[00:34:00] But your life is your spiritual path.

[00:34:02] Don't be quick to abandon it for bigger and better experiences.

[00:34:06] You are getting exactly the experiences you need to grow.

[00:34:09] If your growth seems to be slow or uneventful for you,

[00:34:13] it is because you have not fully embraced the situations and relationships at hand

[00:34:18] to know the self is to allow everything to embrace the totality of who we are.

[00:34:23] All that we think and feel all that we fear all that we love.

[00:34:27] Paul Farini found on a sign on the laundry house at Kalani, Big Island, Hawaii.

[00:34:33] So yes, the path to totality story again, really gratifying to

[00:34:41] like stumble into or be blessed with that answer from our sibling

[00:34:45] and think about just how questions situate into that.

[00:34:51] Right into this whole idea of like what is Googleable?

[00:34:55] What does it mean to like?

[00:34:57] Really live in a question, live through a question and listen for the answers

[00:35:03] that would inspire me to ask more questions.

[00:35:05] Right? Because I think asking questions, if it was like a pedagogy

[00:35:11] or like the Socratic method, right?

[00:35:13] I think the process of education is about having more questions

[00:35:19] when you leave than when you came in.

[00:35:22] Right. That intricacy, the expansiveness, the depth

[00:35:27] of the question.

[00:35:28] I think it really does come down to that capacity for being curious.

[00:35:31] And that reminds me of another quote that I really love,

[00:35:34] which is from Paul Graham, because he says that you don't have to push yourself

[00:35:39] as hard when curiosity is pulling you.

[00:35:42] And I think that's a really good

[00:35:44] like image of just what that movement feels like.

[00:35:47] Right? Like you don't have to feel

[00:35:50] you don't have to worry about whether or not you feel motivated

[00:35:53] or or how like pushed you are by some external forces like now,

[00:35:59] like you're being like pulled into something

[00:36:02] just by the questions that you're asking

[00:36:03] in the way that you're thinking about the world.

[00:36:05] Right? Yeah, it's kind of scary.

[00:36:07] I think another rapid hold, though, on the questions

[00:36:13] line of thinking is just how.

[00:36:17] Google has been the receptacle

[00:36:20] for more human questions than anybody ever.

[00:36:26] Anything ever. Everything ever.

[00:36:28] And it's feeding a machine that.

[00:36:31] All it had said to do apparently is learn how to ask a question

[00:36:37] and they'll be game over for us.

[00:36:39] Yeah, even thinking about how like things like chat, G.

[00:36:47] B.T. work, like how we are meant to prompt it, you know, is very interesting.

[00:36:53] What is.

[00:36:56] Question that you asked Google in the last year

[00:37:01] that you laugh at now?

[00:37:04] That's also.

[00:37:07] Appropriate.

[00:37:09] I guess.

[00:37:16] Oh, this one's funny because we were just talking about this.

[00:37:19] But the one that comes to mind is why does broccoli and kale

[00:37:22] make my fart smell so bad?

[00:37:25] I am dead.

[00:37:26] Oh, that's the one.

[00:37:28] Yeah, recently.

[00:37:30] That's a great one to Google, you know, because

[00:37:34] I was literally curious, you know, it was kind of an urgent thing.

[00:37:37] And and it's even funnier because Bo, you know, he loves veggies

[00:37:42] and fruits and and I was cutting up some broccoli

[00:37:45] and I fed him some because he loves broccoli too.

[00:37:48] And then like he'll just be like sitting next to me

[00:37:51] and then like we'll both be like having these nasty as broccoli parts.

[00:37:55] I'm like something is wrong here.

[00:37:56] You know what I'm saying?

[00:37:57] So I had to go to that shit right then.

[00:37:59] I was like, hey, like I love eating broccoli, but I don't know how much

[00:38:02] longer I can I can endure.

[00:38:05] That's so funny.

[00:38:09] Yeah.

[00:38:11] Yeah.

[00:38:12] But, you know, of course, Miles, too, like you bring in

[00:38:15] bringing me to my sub-stack and a recent question

[00:38:20] that I've been asking because a piece that's really that I've really loved

[00:38:24] and that stood out for me that you've written recently

[00:38:26] is called words are not heavier than water.

[00:38:30] So I would love just if you could real quick

[00:38:33] share a little bit with the folks listening like what on the one is

[00:38:39] as a sub-stack and, you know, how you were thinking about this specific piece.

[00:38:43] Yeah.

[00:38:46] Yeah. So some months ago

[00:38:50] when I first started writing a newsletter, which was at the time called

[00:38:55] Renegade in a lecture, which is so funny.

[00:38:59] It is.

[00:39:00] But I was reading Sapiens and

[00:39:04] what was really interesting, I was talking to Jen about the book.

[00:39:08] You know, he just made kind of an offhand comment like, oh, like, I bet

[00:39:13] like he doesn't.

[00:39:15] The author doesn't even talk about music or

[00:39:19] does does he talk about music at all?

[00:39:22] And you correctly assumed he doesn't once bring it up.

[00:39:27] It's not anywhere in the index.

[00:39:31] And in the book, he claims like the atomic bomb, the courage

[00:39:36] region of it is like the single most important event in my human history.

[00:39:42] And to have that sentence in a book

[00:39:45] that doesn't at all talk about music and its power for us is wild.

[00:39:51] And so, you know, we were thinking about

[00:39:55] just the points of music for our lives.

[00:39:58] And

[00:40:01] I was thinking about how I could also write about it more.

[00:40:05] And yeah,

[00:40:08] this card, I just have to add the one just came to mind.

[00:40:15] Given it soon, soon, troughty to funk music and

[00:40:19] playing on the one, I guess,

[00:40:22] origin with James Brown, probably somewhere prior to him, obviously.

[00:40:27] Yeah, I just felt like that.

[00:40:31] Phrase on the one

[00:40:34] encapsulated more of what I wanted my writing

[00:40:39] to feel like and to

[00:40:43] just embody just this feeling of

[00:40:46] even though there are a lot of parts,

[00:40:49] a lot of things I'm curious about

[00:40:52] like the music is still in the same harmony and groove.

[00:40:57] And yeah, all comes back

[00:41:01] on the same same beat.

[00:41:05] So, yeah, it's just another just mancy name,

[00:41:08] but it's really just writing about anything.

[00:41:10] That's how I really think about it.

[00:41:13] And you asked me about this piece particularly.

[00:41:17] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:41:20] Yeah, so in high school,

[00:41:22] we had this class called American Studies

[00:41:25] and we had to study each like an American poet.

[00:41:31] And there was only one guy on the list

[00:41:35] that sounded Asian American.

[00:41:38] And his name was Lee Young Lee.

[00:41:40] I chose him just because I was like, you know, never heard of the dude.

[00:41:45] So we'll take that chance.

[00:41:46] And yeah, we got really interested in his poetry and point of view.

[00:41:52] And in one of his inner interview books,

[00:41:54] he tells a story of how Lee Lee by

[00:41:58] the ancient Chinese poet from around south and 100 AD.

[00:42:05] He used to write his poems

[00:42:08] by hand read them to his washer lady

[00:42:13] and fold them into little boats

[00:42:16] and just send them down through paper.

[00:42:20] And those are even the ones that, again, never were published like officially.

[00:42:26] Like, and I just love the thought of imagining

[00:42:30] someone so prolific and someone so giving

[00:42:34] that they were willing to give so much of their work

[00:42:40] and not even be credited for it like ever.

[00:42:43] And I'm over here worried about

[00:42:47] what I'm going to write and it being perfect every single time.

[00:42:52] And just making it really hard for myself to write more often.

[00:42:57] And, you know, obviously have been really

[00:43:02] inspired by you writing every day.

[00:43:05] And, you know, I was juiced up about the idea at first.

[00:43:10] I'm I'm I do it too.

[00:43:12] But, you know, I fell into my own groove with it.

[00:43:14] But yeah, just really embodying that feeling of like

[00:43:20] letting stuff go and sharing it because you never know what

[00:43:24] the impact of your words are going to be.

[00:43:27] So. Mm hmm.

[00:43:30] Yeah, for real.

[00:43:31] I'm curious why.

[00:43:33] Writing is important to you.

[00:43:36] What is it about writing that had lead by doing it and like has you.

[00:43:42] You know, also doing it and you're going to do more of it, right?

[00:43:46] Like, why is it that important?

[00:43:48] Why is writing important to me?

[00:43:52] And interestingly, I feel like I just don't even think about

[00:43:56] it as important

[00:43:59] in like the same way I think of something like honesty or like another

[00:44:04] value that I think is important.

[00:44:06] It's like just something

[00:44:10] essential to process

[00:44:14] life and to connect with people.

[00:44:17] I guess those are send-in names.

[00:44:19] Yeah, I just feel like even us, you know, going back through

[00:44:24] our old stuff with when our mom moved old

[00:44:28] writing and everything, I just feel like it's a thing we've just

[00:44:31] always really enjoyed doing.

[00:44:33] Just part of us, I think when you read to

[00:44:39] and you have so so many words that have been poured into you,

[00:44:43] you kind of just want to create the art that made you, you know?

[00:44:49] So. Yeah, that's fine.

[00:44:51] You would say that you've been made by words.

[00:44:54] Yeah. Yeah, God said it in Genesis, right?

[00:45:01] So he spoke in my yeah.

[00:45:05] Yeah, I was thinking about though, from reading

[00:45:11] anything by by words

[00:45:15] because he first brought up this idea of

[00:45:19] the incarnate word, you know, word as flesh,

[00:45:23] virgin idea and how

[00:45:28] that's supposed to mean, you know, word and flesh are one.

[00:45:33] And I feel like it's also a Christian idea

[00:45:40] that we are more than our flesh and that you should like

[00:45:43] solve vert though flesh and not give in to the

[00:45:47] they love the word flesh.

[00:45:49] Yeah.

[00:45:51] So.

[00:45:53] So do you think so?

[00:45:58] I was like, hmm, by that

[00:46:00] church to the property, should we be above

[00:46:05] the word also and like not given like

[00:46:10] do we give into the word in the same way we give into the flesh?

[00:46:13] If.

[00:46:15] If yeah. OK, all right.

[00:46:17] So do we

[00:46:19] almost become drunk with language to the point

[00:46:26] where it's like

[00:46:29] giving into the flesh.

[00:46:31] I don't even know if you can apply to me like it's a serious.

[00:46:34] OK, yeah. I mean, when you say it, you always just feels like

[00:46:38] it's a euphemism for sex.

[00:46:41] I mean, I just don't know any other context really.

[00:46:46] Yeah, no, I mean, I think it definitely is

[00:46:49] like words and language is definitely something to be drunk on, something to be.

[00:46:55] Hmm, I don't know if it's like blinded, but they definitely can shape your

[00:46:59] perception in a lot of ways.

[00:47:02] And I think this is something else that we've been talking about

[00:47:06] recently, which is in a relationship of perception and projection

[00:47:13] because words and symbols, right?

[00:47:17] Like because words are symbols

[00:47:21] and numbers as well.

[00:47:25] They they're old, but they're not like super, super old, right?

[00:47:31] And I guess right to like, I guess that depends on your perspective.

[00:47:34] If you're coming from

[00:47:38] if you're coming from the Christian perspective, like words are,

[00:47:41] you know, as old as anything like the oldest thing.

[00:47:44] I guess not older than water, but, you know,

[00:47:47] because, you know, they were already there and everything.

[00:47:48] But yeah, no, I just think that let's say within the form of

[00:47:54] text and like written words.

[00:47:59] I mean, they're just, you know, I think that they're important,

[00:48:02] right? Literacy is important.

[00:48:04] Being able to write is important for the world as it's currently constructed.

[00:48:10] But I think that there's also a lot of life that is and has been

[00:48:15] and can always be lived without books or without language

[00:48:20] or not obviously like verbally communicated language, but not like

[00:48:24] like literary stuff that's written down.

[00:48:28] And so I think that does inform my opinion that it's not as like

[00:48:34] essential as some people make it out to be when they think that,

[00:48:37] like, you know, words and language are everything.

[00:48:43] But I think that you're definitely right,

[00:48:45] that when it's a part of your environment, like how it has been for us

[00:48:50] our whole life, yeah, it just makes it real easy to like stay in that environment

[00:48:54] and to like see it as something that's useful and

[00:48:58] and helpful in expression.

[00:49:02] I think the other way of looking at words and language is that it's art,

[00:49:07] you know, it's it's water in a sense.

[00:49:11] Just when you think about how filled up we can feel

[00:49:16] when we have talked with someone or when we have talked.

[00:49:20] I think there is like a power to the voice that is its own power, right?

[00:49:26] Just in what it means to be able to like verbalize something and talk out loud.

[00:49:30] That's a very deeply human thing.

[00:49:33] But I don't think that always has to directly relate to the reading of a book.

[00:49:38] Totally. Yeah.

[00:49:40] You know, I was thinking what you were saying, though, like

[00:49:43] I think this is a really interesting thread that we've had going for

[00:49:48] I think the last year at least of the things that like precede humans

[00:49:53] because I feel like for something

[00:49:57] to come out of something else, that means

[00:50:02] it was contained in the original thing.

[00:50:09] So there had to have been words and water, you know what I'm saying?

[00:50:13] There had there has to be like, like, like, language

[00:50:18] and other animals, obviously as as as we know

[00:50:23] for us to come out of them.

[00:50:29] You know what I'm saying?

[00:50:32] I feel like what's interesting is as I'm saying that idea,

[00:50:37] it sounds Darwinian and super religious at the same time.

[00:50:46] Because yeah, Genesis is just like a really short,

[00:50:49] short cut version of that story.

[00:50:52] You know, I'm saying both doesn't speak English.

[00:50:57] You know, someone Spanish speaking has a dog.

[00:51:02] Their dog doesn't speak Spanish, right?

[00:51:05] But they still like can understand everything that they're saying.

[00:51:09] That would mean that like these words

[00:51:13] come before and like the energy energy

[00:51:16] that create them come before what is biologically more

[00:51:22] ornamental in like how the words are framed.

[00:51:27] You know, like we theoretically could like all just like grunt.

[00:51:32] We have just like found more elegant ways of like grunting

[00:51:38] to communicate like very precise and elegant ways, you know?

[00:51:43] Yeah.

[00:51:45] And right, like we never bow or bone foster who are our dogs?

[00:51:52] By the way, we're not still like.

[00:51:57] You know, we like play with them too.

[00:51:59] Like play is not a you know, plays not a human thing.

[00:52:05] Right.

[00:52:05] What does does that mean play had to have been in water

[00:52:11] if water evolved into all life?

[00:52:15] Yes.

[00:52:17] You know, like we splash water to have fun to play,

[00:52:23] but that water was doing that shit too.

[00:52:26] You know what I'm saying?

[00:52:27] Yeah, I've been doing it.

[00:52:30] Exactly.

[00:52:30] Yeah.

[00:52:30] No, that does that doesn't remind me too just off of, you know,

[00:52:34] sapiens how I think I was saying at one point

[00:52:39] just how like music is older than humans.

[00:52:42] Yes, right.

[00:52:43] And I think it's along the same lines where you're talking about.

[00:52:46] And yeah, I mean, maybe maybe part of that too

[00:52:50] is that just like truth is older than even like even just

[00:52:53] the the embodiment of it.

[00:52:55] Right?

[00:52:55] It's just all around.

[00:52:58] And in a way, like something that.

[00:53:03] Takes us a minute to catch up to or like realize our own ways.

[00:53:07] What part of your life would you say is most aligned with the truth?

[00:53:17] We.

[00:53:20] Oh, I mean, I'd honestly say like my relationship with Simone

[00:53:27] could answer.

[00:53:27] Yeah, I know, right?

[00:53:28] Yeah, that was what I was going to say.

[00:53:30] Yeah.

[00:53:33] And that's my wife, by the way.

[00:53:37] It's also like, yeah.

[00:53:38] Well, it's like if you are our mom or a Shawnee shout out,

[00:53:43] you know, y'all know these people already.

[00:53:49] But no, I think.

[00:53:52] I think that there's just a really.

[00:53:55] Like profound.

[00:53:59] Yeah, just embodiment of.

[00:54:01] Like love and.

[00:54:05] Honesty and growth and.

[00:54:09] Laughter, joy, creativity and just what it means to like create a life

[00:54:14] and like live a life with another person.

[00:54:18] Like intimately, you know, and I think.

[00:54:22] I think that even at that core is at the core of that is really

[00:54:27] just the importance of friendship.

[00:54:34] Because.

[00:54:36] Yeah, a lot of relationships can go a long time without having like any romantic

[00:54:42] elements, but no relationships can go like very long or at least

[00:54:47] enjoyably without like friendship at the core of them.

[00:54:51] And I'm still trying to figure out exactly what.

[00:54:54] Like that friendship is or what it means how to write about it.

[00:54:58] Because I do feel like it's it's something that.

[00:55:03] Yeah, just like it's something that I think.

[00:55:07] Like grows everywhere when it's growing anywhere.

[00:55:13] And it obviously like takes a minute sometimes, but I think that like

[00:55:18] just the strength of the friendship that I feel with Simone has

[00:55:22] like helped me learn how to be a friend, like to myself, be a friend

[00:55:29] to like you to everyone around me, you know, and really just like

[00:55:33] always bring that energy of care, curiosity, like love wanting

[00:55:39] to share with other people.

[00:55:42] And.

[00:55:44] Yeah, I think I think that's why it's super.

[00:55:48] Yeah, I think that's why it's like that's the place I think

[00:55:51] of as like being aligned.

[00:55:54] Because that's something that I definitely.

[00:56:00] Took inspiration from Wendell Berry on was just.

[00:56:05] How yeah, like any stable strong relationship.

[00:56:10] Is going to be like a stabilizing, like strengthening, empowering

[00:56:14] force for like lots of relationships and for community at large,

[00:56:20] especially with our wedding coming up and just thinking about

[00:56:22] what it means for all these people to like come together to celebrate.

[00:56:26] Like, yeah, this is it is it is like a communal institution.

[00:56:30] Right? I think that marriage has also been like definitely

[00:56:36] for lack of a better word like co-opted.

[00:56:38] Yeah, that's a great.

[00:56:39] Oh, yeah.

[00:56:40] That's great.

[00:56:41] It co-opted like towards being an institution of like

[00:56:45] or captured, so to speak, to use like old Femi Tilo's word for

[00:56:51] towards the purposes of like, you know, the economy and government

[00:56:56] and stuff like that.

[00:57:00] And even then, right?

[00:57:01] Like, you know, it's unclear how much.

[00:57:06] Like long term partnerships are even inherent to like the human species.

[00:57:11] Right. Like people love talking about all that kind of stuff.

[00:57:15] But yeah, I just I feel like, you know, I at least personally

[00:57:22] have gone to the point where I just see it as like what it means to be alive,

[00:57:26] you know, and and I didn't always appreciate it or recognize that it existed.

[00:57:31] But I think it was always possible there.

[00:57:34] And it's just like my relationship with Simone that like, you know,

[00:57:36] kind of facilitated it, catalyzed it, at least my like appreciation of it

[00:57:41] for for all of its forms, you know.

[00:57:45] Yeah.

[00:57:46] That's a that's really it's really beautiful.

[00:57:50] And, you know, I had the thought as you were talking.

[00:57:56] Insight of like.

[00:57:59] That you can't possess truth.

[00:58:02] Like truth is not something.

[00:58:06] That you can have property over.

[00:58:10] And that is the fundamental lie of the West.

[00:58:19] No, seriously, though, when you really think about.

[00:58:22] Yeah, yeah, that's facts. That's facts.

[00:58:24] Yeah.

[00:58:26] Right. You're talking about it, though.

[00:58:27] It's like land property.

[00:58:28] Yeah.

[00:58:29] As a thing that you share with another person.

[00:58:32] And with everyone.

[00:58:34] Right. Yeah.

[00:58:35] And you think of.

[00:58:38] Kind of the classic.

[00:58:41] Case of like modern.

[00:58:45] That that could end and.

[00:58:49] There's May is, you know, trying to chase happiness through

[00:58:55] material possession, right?

[00:58:57] It's like both of those clauses are chasing happiness.

[00:59:03] That's happiness through my stuff.

[00:59:06] You know, yeah.

[00:59:07] And it literally will never work because you're not living.

[00:59:14] Truthfully in that frame.

[00:59:18] Yeah.

[00:59:20] I feel like a human life itself is just truth.

[00:59:23] And when you really think about just all the emotions

[00:59:29] and experiences and feelings that we can feel or made to feel

[00:59:32] that that we will feel like.

[00:59:37] It's like.

[00:59:39] Kind of the whole point is all of it and.

[00:59:43] The frequency in which all of it exists is what's true.

[00:59:48] But when folks try to corner their little piece, it doesn't make sense.

[00:59:51] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:52] I would say to add on to that lie.

[00:59:56] Western world.

[00:59:58] For sure, I think just that difference between like a zero sum game

[01:00:03] and like a non-zero sum game, which you know, should have a better

[01:00:07] name for a game than being a non-zero sum.

[01:00:10] But yeah, I think.

[01:00:12] Actual game.

[01:00:13] Exactly.

[01:00:14] Yeah.

[01:00:19] Right.

[01:00:19] Our is is also part of it, you know, and there's this book

[01:00:24] that I really, really am excited to reread soon called

[01:00:29] Racial Ecologies where the opening essay was talking about how

[01:00:34] like the whole East West divide is is simplified into

[01:00:41] like the West being me over we and the East being we over me.

[01:00:49] But the Ubuntu idea of I am because we are or

[01:00:55] or just general indigenous African processes of community

[01:01:01] are really rooted in me and we and me because we, we because me

[01:01:06] where like each person coming into their own as an individual

[01:01:13] and as a gift like to the community.

[01:01:18] They're all mutually reinforcing on like it doesn't have to be

[01:01:20] mutually exclusive.

[01:01:21] It doesn't have to be like about like one person trying to

[01:01:25] like take it all from everyone else.

[01:01:27] And in fact, like that's when shit goes wrong and it also

[01:01:29] goes wrong when when yeah, the community isn't like fully

[01:01:34] attending to the needs of each individual.

[01:01:37] Right.

[01:01:40] It was another quote that like Grace had shared with us

[01:01:43] just around like the neglected child will burn down the

[01:01:47] village to feel it's warmth.

[01:01:48] You know, that that should when they say.

[01:01:51] They said in like in December it was in here.

[01:01:55] It was like in this very room.

[01:01:58] But that was one of the coldest things I ever heard.

[01:02:00] And then and it's exactly towards that point, right?

[01:02:02] That like there is like a this mutual dance like between

[01:02:07] individuals and among like members of a community that can

[01:02:12] be mutually beneficial, right?

[01:02:15] And like and growing of everything.

[01:02:18] Another another book.

[01:02:21] That informed my sense of that is like Black Earth wisdom

[01:02:26] also recommended by Grace because

[01:02:29] because the whole idea of

[01:02:33] like a garden in West Africa around the continent

[01:02:38] is just that, you know, it's a lot of different life forms

[01:02:41] all being in the same kind of area working together to

[01:02:44] help them each like grow strong in all the ways they need to.

[01:02:48] But it's a completely different conception of life

[01:02:51] and like what it means to like cultivate abundance

[01:02:55] than monocropping, you know, or or or even like seasonal

[01:02:59] rotation of like a few quote unquote like cash crops

[01:03:03] just to like, yeah, monetize and like commodify

[01:03:06] and like profit off the land exploit the land.

[01:03:10] One of the stories that Leah Peneman shares

[01:03:14] in All We Can Save

[01:03:17] was about how like, yeah, just some some folks in Western Africa

[01:03:21] like literally judged like the quality of their lives

[01:03:25] and their generations off of like how much they deepened

[01:03:28] like the the healthy topsoil like in the land, right?

[01:03:31] Because it's like, oh, like if things are getting better,

[01:03:34] we should have like more healthy soil for like deeper roots

[01:03:37] and like more abundance for future generations.

[01:03:39] You know, meanwhile over here in the US

[01:03:43] there's only like people people know the exact number.

[01:03:46] I mean, there's only a few more cycles of not a few,

[01:03:49] but you know what I'm saying?

[01:03:50] There's a dwindling number of cycles that the soil can like

[01:03:54] that soils around the country can sustainably hold

[01:03:56] before like they have nothing left, you know.

[01:04:00] Right. So we're not going to eat after that.

[01:04:03] Well, I mean, that's part of the urgency around

[01:04:05] what it means to really reconnect with the land

[01:04:08] in a deeper and healthier way.

[01:04:11] It's not everywhere, obviously,

[01:04:12] but this is very just uneven.

[01:04:14] My thing.

[01:04:15] But yeah, no, you think about just all of the like

[01:04:18] property agricultural land in the US

[01:04:24] that's been obliterated with pesticides and heavy machinery.

[01:04:29] The topsoil is like dwindling, you know, there's only so much left

[01:04:32] and it and that's the thing is that it requires

[01:04:34] more and more technology, more and more chemicals

[01:04:38] to try and get like diminishing returns on

[01:04:43] on land and like abundance that like

[01:04:47] indigenous folks all around the continent

[01:04:49] were like cultivating a lot better, like way better,

[01:04:52] way more sustainably for like thousands of years.

[01:04:55] Yeah, but like, you know, US think is don't listen

[01:04:58] and they don't seem to care.

[01:04:59] But but yeah, I thought it was a bit of a tangent.

[01:05:02] Like all all just to say that there's

[01:05:05] so much about this like this realm of like

[01:05:09] interpersonal relationships of humans

[01:05:12] that is reflective and informative for like how we relate to land

[01:05:17] as well in the water, of course.

[01:05:20] So I see all of that as like connected as well

[01:05:22] and just like what it means to like be who we are.

[01:05:26] Yeah.

[01:05:27] Now, that's a perfect segue into the question, though.

[01:05:33] But I first thought of when we.

[01:05:36] Thought of doing this episode, which is

[01:05:41] what do you think is the world's most dangerous question?

[01:05:48] And for that, however you want to.

[01:05:49] OK, I would say how much this water cost.

[01:05:55] Yeah, that whole realm of pricing water, I think,

[01:05:58] is is pretty is a pretty cynical space of like questions.

[01:06:02] That people are like asking and trying to answer right now.

[01:06:05] I can always be proven wrong or change my mind on it.

[01:06:09] I just think that water is like hard to quantify

[01:06:14] and measure and model

[01:06:19] for a lot of good reasons.

[01:06:21] And that has never stopped anyone

[01:06:25] up until like a few centuries ago from.

[01:06:29] Like, you know, developing like reverence for water

[01:06:34] and like instituting it like culturally, right?

[01:06:36] Whether that be like through through stories

[01:06:39] and creation stories and gods or destruction stories

[01:06:42] and like the power of water.

[01:06:44] It's literally everywhere and.

[01:06:47] Somehow.

[01:06:49] Like just off of how like this quote unquote modern

[01:06:52] industrial society has been set up

[01:06:56] to focus on economics and like it's the whole like tragedy

[01:07:01] that commons idea. Oh, like everything will be better off.

[01:07:04] People would actually value water if you put a price on it.

[01:07:06] I think that's that's total bullshit.

[01:07:09] Yeah, I just I think it's a waste of time.

[01:07:11] It's the wrong direction.

[01:07:12] So that's that's why I think it's a dangerous question as well,

[01:07:14] just because it's like the more time that we spend trying to.

[01:07:18] Answer it and authority around that question.

[01:07:22] And execute on it like the more

[01:07:26] like problems are just going to come from that, you know, I think

[01:07:29] because it really is coming from that place of control.

[01:07:32] I was just saying with agriculture, it's like the more you try

[01:07:35] and control the situation.

[01:07:38] With these tools, it just it'll just create like a lot of.

[01:07:42] Unquote unquote unintended consequences, which is like a phrase as well

[01:07:47] that I think is like pretty funny, but.

[01:07:50] But yeah, it's something that people have been and always will

[01:07:55] resist and like push back on because water is sacred in

[01:07:58] and.

[01:08:01] And it's literally like meant and designed to be like free and a gift.

[01:08:07] So yeah, that's what I would say.

[01:08:09] That's awesome.

[01:08:10] Word, word, word, word, word, you say it's the same question

[01:08:14] on the flip side, like the most thing is quite

[01:08:18] into.

[01:08:21] Propel the powers that that be in a sense.

[01:08:25] What do you mean?

[01:08:27] Like, I guess that's how I'm going to interpret it.

[01:08:30] Anyways, I see it as.

[01:08:34] It's like the question that is like.

[01:08:38] Yes, to talk.

[01:08:39] Oh, I see. Yeah.

[01:08:41] Yeah, that's not how I thought about it.

[01:08:44] What?

[01:08:45] Isn't that who was that?

[01:08:46] Apokov or someone talking about.

[01:08:48] I don't know.

[01:08:49] OK, about my wife's reference in this episode.

[01:08:55] No.

[01:08:56] Oh, just in like like how questions and curiosity is like

[01:09:01] it's very like instigating like it and it's.

[01:09:04] It is definitely like the ground for like, yeah, more radical

[01:09:08] politics, honestly, because like.

[01:09:11] A lot of powers that be don't be trying to have people

[01:09:14] asking questions, you know, getting curious.

[01:09:16] Oh, really?

[01:09:18] Another one.

[01:09:22] Yeah, you know, I know you don't like it, but I'd prefer

[01:09:25] to like flip that one back on to you.

[01:09:29] Just because, yeah, I'm really curious to your answer.

[01:09:32] Wait, what's actually crazy, bro, is I actually think

[01:09:37] I have that quote.

[01:09:40] Right here in my notebook.

[01:09:42] Oh, well, oh man, there are three different quotes, man.

[01:09:48] Wait, why do you have a notebook?

[01:09:50] This was from the anxious generation.

[01:09:52] Oh, no, we know.

[01:09:54] Oh, it was from the one thing.

[01:09:57] Oh, wow.

[01:09:58] Wow.

[01:10:01] But OK, so all of these quotes.

[01:10:04] Judge a man by his questions rather than his answers.

[01:10:09] Voltaire.

[01:10:12] Next quote, a prudent question is one half of ways.

[01:10:19] Sir Francis Bacon.

[01:10:23] Next quote, the power to question is the basis of all

[01:10:28] human progress in Dirangondi.

[01:10:32] Is that? Oh, wow.

[01:10:33] Yeah, you got to hear it.

[01:10:35] And I don't want that.

[01:10:37] And there are gone is.

[01:10:40] I feel ashamed that I don't know.

[01:10:41] Yeah, I want to say it's what's his name?

[01:10:45] Daughter. Oh, word.

[01:10:47] Yeah.

[01:10:49] Like the glasses, the real glasses jacket shirt.

[01:10:55] No, no, no, no.

[01:10:55] And there are gone.

[01:10:56] He was a prime minister.

[01:10:57] I'm saying like their relations is on word.

[01:11:00] Yeah.

[01:11:02] Oh, yeah.

[01:11:03] Yeah. And there are gone is Nehru's daughter.

[01:11:08] Oh, yeah.

[01:11:10] So no, no relation to.

[01:11:13] I don't think maybe.

[01:11:14] Maybe I don't know.

[01:11:16] But yeah, all interesting quotes.

[01:11:18] But none of which are the exact

[01:11:23] white person's quote that I was thinking of.

[01:11:27] I'll have to look down up there.

[01:11:28] Right. But yeah, OK, yeah.

[01:11:30] So right there.

[01:11:32] Definitely along the same lines.

[01:11:34] Oh, in terms of the quarter, just give me back the.

[01:11:37] Oh, no, just in terms of what we've been talking about.

[01:11:39] But yeah, I'm on the question of the most.

[01:11:41] You know, I had time to think about it and still that was great answer

[01:11:45] because I did think of the negative one first.

[01:11:49] And I was like, it would have to be.

[01:11:54] Do we share the same God?

[01:11:57] Is the worst one?

[01:11:58] What? Yeah.

[01:11:59] In the most violent one.

[01:12:01] Wow.

[01:12:03] Yeah, I think that makes sense.

[01:12:06] And it's even like it's not even like a yes or no question.

[01:12:09] It's like we don't know how do we do it.

[01:12:13] Exactly. What are we doing?

[01:12:14] The nonbelievers, you know, that's that's a crazy

[01:12:18] that's a crazy question.

[01:12:19] But yeah, you're right. You're right.

[01:12:23] And I guess that could be the positive one, too.

[01:12:28] Do we share the same God?

[01:12:30] I think now though, it just straight up like

[01:12:33] do I actually just care about like about other people or like

[01:12:38] what am I wrong about?

[01:12:42] Which one of those two?

[01:12:45] Feel like I have to get something snappier, pithier.

[01:12:50] It's definitely nothing about love.

[01:12:52] No, I mean, can make make it up out of love.

[01:12:58] Where is the love?

[01:13:04] I was I was just seeing a very interesting tweet about this.

[01:13:09] Actually, how.

[01:13:12] Dude was saying.

[01:13:15] How when we equate rest to resistance or love to resistance,

[01:13:22] it like.

[01:13:24] Kind of exculpates us from the work.

[01:13:28] Of like actually

[01:13:30] resisting the state.

[01:13:32] Like, I guess you wanted to like violently, but I'm like.

[01:13:42] Yeah, I also resist violence too.

[01:13:45] And I think that's a big thing that I want to learn

[01:13:50] as I live just like

[01:13:53] both to study that historically, but to live it out in my own life.

[01:13:59] Like it feels cynical and wrong to feel like

[01:14:04] violence is the only way to change things or violence is inevitable.

[01:14:08] Right.

[01:14:09] But even in non violent things, like there was plenty of blood shed,

[01:14:13] you know, so that point of view also pans out pretty accurately.

[01:14:18] This is why I think it's a good question though, because I

[01:14:23] really.

[01:14:24] Will think about it.

[01:14:26] I think it's that thing we both can write right on.

[01:14:29] I feel like something simple.

[01:14:35] And I'm actually trying to think of one that would practically.

[01:14:40] If at least like 20 percent.

[01:14:43] Women's asked that it would be like, you know.

[01:14:49] Here it is.

[01:14:51] Here it is.

[01:14:53] I was about to say like, what is really mine?

[01:14:57] Yeah.

[01:14:58] Going back to that idea of property and possession.

[01:15:02] Yeah, because I mean, I think we are just

[01:15:06] going through such a big time.

[01:15:11] World geopolitics wise, climate wise.

[01:15:17] Yeah. And then it's probably true to the every time

[01:15:20] history fall like a turning point or the bleeding edge.

[01:15:22] But with our connectedness now, we also all have a bigger

[01:15:30] global scope in a way, where it's that we can truly say

[01:15:35] has never been seen prior.

[01:15:39] And that does add something different and new

[01:15:44] that we can truly say hasn't been experienced.

[01:15:48] So I think when we really think of

[01:15:53] boundaries between nations and

[01:15:57] boundaries between people

[01:16:03] really.

[01:16:05] Which are real and which are.

[01:16:11] I wish I had a better answer.

[01:16:13] No, no, that was that was incredible.

[01:16:14] Yeah. Thanks for sharing it.

[01:16:15] And I mean, you definitely got me thinking as well

[01:16:18] on the question of like, who is I?

[01:16:21] Who am I? Right.

[01:16:23] Like a lot of your questions.

[01:16:24] You were read Martin Buber.

[01:16:26] I and thou. Yeah.

[01:16:29] Another great one.

[01:16:30] Yeah. But I'm I'm real curious on your on your thoughts

[01:16:33] on on his work.

[01:16:35] You you have.

[01:16:37] I read the first couple of chapters of that book

[01:16:40] and they blew my mind, honestly.

[01:16:42] Yeah. Like there's some books like that when like,

[01:16:45] you know, they just like really like hit and resonate.

[01:16:48] And I almost got to like put them down and then just like, you know,

[01:16:51] yeah, because, you know, because I'm recommended to people

[01:16:54] and like, I know the essential concept,

[01:16:57] but it is a book that I have yet to like return back to

[01:17:01] to finish.

[01:17:02] 80 Smith wrote a.

[01:17:04] I say about Uber.

[01:17:07] Is that at home?

[01:17:08] You bear. Oh, yeah.

[01:17:09] Boober.

[01:17:10] And Bieber doesn't just move it.

[01:17:13] No, and be. Oh, and be real.

[01:17:15] Yeah, it's awesome.

[01:17:17] But she takes the card,

[01:17:19] all except of I and now kind of projects it on to modern day.

[01:17:24] So Liberty culture.

[01:17:26] Well, yeah. Well.

[01:17:30] That sounds super interesting.

[01:17:31] Shout out to Zeddy Smith.

[01:17:33] He is our most listened to.

[01:17:36] So.

[01:17:38] Ghost interview.

[01:17:39] Ghost interview.

[01:17:40] Really talking about.

[01:17:41] Yeah, shout out to us, man.

[01:17:43] You know, like, no, fascinated to presume

[01:17:46] we're still on that same type of energy.

[01:17:48] Maybe we had all this episode after whatever died.

[01:17:52] Boober and Bieber.

[01:17:53] Say Smith, I say, you know what I'm saying?

[01:17:55] No.

[01:17:56] Yeah, it's honestly hilarious how that was most listened to.

[01:17:59] You know, you know, wait, I was telling

[01:18:02] telling you that someone like for their teachers, for their masters,

[01:18:05] like what? Oh, yeah.

[01:18:07] Use that podcast.

[01:18:08] I was like, what the?

[01:18:10] Wait, have you read it?

[01:18:11] Have you seen the thesis?

[01:18:13] No, I asked them about it, but they straight up said

[01:18:16] that they like cited us and our show like in their thing.

[01:18:22] That's fire, yo.

[01:18:23] It's crazy. Yeah.

[01:18:24] First, the many to come, obviously.

[01:18:25] Right. I mean, I'm going to decide for it to be a podcast.

[01:18:28] No, I think it's kind of dope.

[01:18:29] Yeah, it is. Wow.

[01:18:30] It's like it is.

[01:18:31] Yeah, I really did that.

[01:18:33] Yeah, I don't just curious to see what what they.

[01:18:36] Quoting.

[01:18:37] I'm curious to see what they're writing about in the first place.

[01:18:43] True for a thesis as well, you know, I said, just no casual

[01:18:47] two page reflection essay.

[01:18:52] Do you have any big final questions, though?

[01:18:55] For this episode?

[01:18:56] Yeah, well, one for you

[01:19:02] because you mentioned before.

[01:19:04] How you're reading that book, unlike parenting,

[01:19:08] young adults, people our age.

[01:19:10] And I'm curious how you see

[01:19:16] or what you see as the importance of parenting yourself,

[01:19:21] learning how to parent yourself, even if that if that even resonates,

[01:19:25] you know, but I just think that

[01:19:28] there's something interesting there about being

[01:19:31] at this point in our lives where we're old enough

[01:19:35] to right hold how we've been, who we are,

[01:19:40] as well as like who we want to be and like bridging those gaps

[01:19:45] seems to be where this idea of like parenting yourself comes in.

[01:19:51] So, you know, yeah, maybe maybe you see it differently.

[01:19:53] But I'm just curious, like, how do you see like your relationship

[01:19:56] with yourself over time right now?

[01:20:01] The big question.

[01:20:03] I'm hurting myself.

[01:20:08] Yeah, I guess I don't see it as parenting

[01:20:12] or say like parents.

[01:20:17] The relationship between parent and child

[01:20:21] they will always be more complex than

[01:20:25] the voice in our head and us.

[01:20:28] Honestly, OK, there's just so many layers there,

[01:20:32] especially being another person that again,

[01:20:35] preceded you and you are everything that they are that they were, you know,

[01:20:40] and.

[01:20:42] But also not and like a new thing.

[01:20:47] Yeah, because the voice in my head,

[01:20:50] I would honestly say is like more critical than our parents

[01:20:54] have been or are now, you know,

[01:20:58] I think that self voice

[01:21:03] is also less

[01:21:09] dimensional to it usually just like is a one track.

[01:21:15] Man,

[01:21:24] anyone can test that was more of a joyful guy.

[01:21:28] But like, you know, I miss a shot or like

[01:21:34] you just like are reading some old writing or something.

[01:21:39] And you're just like, man, like, you know, you break up with a girl.

[01:21:42] Like, you know what I'm saying?

[01:21:43] It's just like it's more like that voice that you hear loudest.

[01:21:49] Is that he said, voice you here loudest over time

[01:21:53] is the voice that you suck.

[01:21:54] Not even that it's like most frequent per se.

[01:21:57] Yeah, you know, and I would not say that's like parenting.

[01:22:00] OK, so what about the whispers?

[01:22:05] Dude, that honestly did you because man, bro, whispers are you here?

[01:22:11] So I have been going to church more recently.

[01:22:13] Yeah. And has been great.

[01:22:18] I love that it's a younger church and not meeting folks my age.

[01:22:22] And one of the curious questions that I've had

[01:22:26] from truly is like.

[01:22:29] How people distinguish the voice of God

[01:22:33] at their head because they'll say like, God, I'm like, are you sure?

[01:22:41] You know, I'm saying it's like.

[01:22:44] Really? Yeah.

[01:22:46] I mean, could we could we be talking in?

[01:22:50] I'm like, how can we be an argument

[01:22:52] and God told us each to like share the thing that we're sharing with each other.

[01:23:01] Yeah, but I think I think that's a really beautiful thought, though.

[01:23:03] A human human human thought like the voice of God.

[01:23:07] And again, we've been talking about what it means

[01:23:12] for God to be the father and to be fathered by God.

[01:23:16] And they're like saying like, you know, like God can be the father

[01:23:21] never was.

[01:23:24] No, I'm not saying that this church

[01:23:26] will really be on the yes.

[01:23:28] Right. Right. Right.

[01:23:29] Or things that I have been hearing right now.

[01:23:31] I'm like, yo, like that's huge.

[01:23:33] Like, um, theoretically, you're just kind of like

[01:23:41] little listening to and projecting a voice.

[01:23:46] Describing it to God in your head.

[01:23:48] And this is going from someone who believes in God.

[01:23:51] Holy, right?

[01:23:51] And I'm trying to hear what that voice of God is.

[01:23:55] And I've been praying more, talking with God more.

[01:23:59] So I think, you know, hearing God's voice will be

[01:24:05] interesting how I stepped through that in my faith journey.

[01:24:11] Yeah. Another interesting book, though,

[01:24:15] I was reading this past month, man, called

[01:24:19] conversation, say, just things with God and

[01:24:23] dude was. Oh, yeah.

[01:24:25] Yeah. No, I was running out.

[01:24:27] Exactly.

[01:24:29] Exactly.

[01:24:30] Yes.

[01:24:32] I think it's Neil Walsh, but OK.

[01:24:35] Yeah, like I love the brownness of the book.

[01:24:38] Like he's writing down what God told him.

[01:24:43] And, um, but he was saying some stuff

[01:24:47] in there that I'm like, nah, gee, like

[01:24:50] again, you you did not hear this.

[01:24:53] Like there's no way God quotes Shakespeare, bro.

[01:24:58] Like it doesn't make sense, you know?

[01:25:01] Or like even knows like who these folks are that you're like,

[01:25:07] of course, God knows.

[01:25:08] Yeah, hold on.

[01:25:10] Like they wrote them through God.

[01:25:13] Yeah.

[01:25:17] Yeah, I know what you mean.

[01:25:18] But also, man, I feel like another big thing for me,

[01:25:23] question has been like even in the Bible, right?

[01:25:28] The whole book is

[01:25:30] still violently inspired, obviously.

[01:25:34] Beautiful.

[01:25:35] You know, I'm not going to knock on the great word

[01:25:38] you're on my podcast.

[01:25:41] It's like, how do we weigh the words

[01:25:47] of God himself?

[01:25:51] Jesus Christ from like, you know,

[01:25:55] all of Corinth and, you know, all of these dudes that were just

[01:25:58] like, you know, Solomon and David, you know, it's like they were

[01:26:02] they had dad bar and sure.

[01:26:04] But like, like Jesus, who, you know, everyone who loves this book says

[01:26:10] is actually God in human form that like

[01:26:16] was the flesh that incarnate word could like heal someone with

[01:26:21] just like a look.

[01:26:24] And then all the other dudes are just saying they like her God.

[01:26:28] But then there's a dude like right over there who was like,

[01:26:32] you know what I'm saying?

[01:26:32] It's like,

[01:26:35] yeah, man, like.

[01:26:37] Yeah.

[01:26:39] So.

[01:26:41] But all the same, you got to do it over there.

[01:26:44] I am a God.

[01:26:45] You know what I'm saying?

[01:26:46] He's all the same.

[01:26:51] Excited to read the Bible.

[01:26:52] He's nice.

[01:26:55] Perfect. Perfect.

[01:26:56] Very, very.

[01:26:58] No, excellent, though, man.

[01:26:59] Do you have any questions for me or like questions, you know,

[01:27:04] just to round it out?

[01:27:07] Totally. I mean, yeah, we really can play this game for forever.

[01:27:12] What do you think is the most important thing?

[01:27:17] Or a standout thing that you really talk away from our guests

[01:27:22] from all of the guests that we've got on the show and just

[01:27:26] episodes in general?

[01:27:28] Yeah.

[01:27:31] Maybe a standout takeaway is just that we're a lot more

[01:27:36] connected than we realized.

[01:27:39] I mean, I mean that in a lot of ways, but in particular with this podcast.

[01:27:44] There are so many folks who we have looked up to or thought

[01:27:50] we would never like see them or get to talk to them or ask them questions and stuff.

[01:27:55] And the fact that we went from.

[01:27:59] Yeah, just like reading books to talking with people who write books

[01:28:05] just off of our own volition and initiative and desire to learn.

[01:28:13] We met. Yeah, we met a lot of people, you know, in a really short amount of time.

[01:28:16] And it's like

[01:28:19] to be more connected than we realize and like closer to one another

[01:28:24] than we realize just through.

[01:28:28] Yeah, the power email and following up

[01:28:31] and.

[01:28:33] And really wanting it, you know, like really wanting to be connected.

[01:28:37] I think that we definitely.

[01:28:41] Brought ourselves to a new world and a new relationship with ourselves

[01:28:47] and the world around us and like our beliefs.

[01:28:51] Just by like reaching out and seeing what happens.

[01:28:55] So yeah, I think that's probably the big one for me.

[01:28:58] Yeah.

[01:29:00] Yeah. I mean, obviously, I think that there's so many more surprises in store for us.

[01:29:08] Pleasant and, you know, maybe some unwelcome

[01:29:12] because you just never know what's going to happen.

[01:29:14] But like, yeah, I mean, like our capacity to be surprised

[01:29:19] as like simultaneously like really increased.

[01:29:22] But then also it's just like it's kind of casual now, too.

[01:29:26] I can't remember if we ever talked about on the podcast, but like when I went to Rhode Island,

[01:29:31] I went to Rhode Island for a presentation

[01:29:35] for some educational projects that I was working on.

[01:29:38] And I walk into my hotel and like Cornell West and

[01:29:41] Farragasman Griffin and Monty Perry, like Eddie Gould.

[01:29:45] They're just like all in the lobby.

[01:29:46] And I'm like, what the fuck?

[01:29:47] Like I just walked into like probably the most star studded

[01:29:51] like room of black intellectuals that I ever have before.

[01:29:55] Robin D. G. Kelly is there, you know?

[01:29:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's all there casually, you know?

[01:29:59] And like I've never like felt so starstruck before, you know,

[01:30:03] because these are all folks that we've like read and engaged with and talked about.

[01:30:07] And none of whom we had on the podcast.

[01:30:10] But I was like, wait a second, like they're just like regular folks.

[01:30:13] Like this is just regular people, you know, living their lives.

[01:30:17] Here I am, you know, doing so as well in their presence.

[01:30:21] It was just so casual, right?

[01:30:22] Where I was like, man, like we're just like all people at the end of the day.

[01:30:28] And yeah, I think I think that's yeah, just a testament to like

[01:30:33] how we've been able to learn

[01:30:35] so much in so many different contexts from ourselves, from each other,

[01:30:39] from all of our guests.

[01:30:41] And incredibly so, like through the computer, like through technology,

[01:30:45] like we really didn't have many of these interviews in person.

[01:30:48] And to like get all that we did in our real lives

[01:30:53] through these like quote unquote virtual, like long distance

[01:30:57] conversations just makes it even crazier.

[01:30:59] Yeah, exactly.

[01:31:00] This is Zoom University right here.

[01:31:03] We are who wants to graduate from Zoom University.

[01:31:06] But congratulations, G.

[01:31:08] From Zoom University.

[01:31:09] But congratulations, G.

[01:31:11] Cheers.

[01:31:16] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Real Ballers Read.

[01:31:20] We will catch you in the next one.

[01:31:22] I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.