In this episode, New York Times Bestselling author Tomi Adeyemi and actress Zai Silla delve into a rich conversation about Children of Anguish and Anarchy, the final installment in the Legacy of Orisha trilogy. They discuss the emotional depths of Tomi's characters, the influence of African mythology, and the personal experiences that shape her storytelling. Tomi also shares insights on the challenges and triumphs of writing through trauma, the significance of communal grief, and the transformative power of literature. The discussion finally touches on the expanding universe of the series, the upcoming movie adaptation, and the musical inspirations that complement her narratives.
Welcome to the Mahogany Books Podcast Network, your gateway to the world of African American literature. We're proud to present a collection of podcasts dedicated to exploring the depth and richness of African American literature. Immerse yourself in podcasts like Black Books Matter, the podcast, where we learn about the books and major life moments that influence today's top writers or tune in to Real Ballers Read. Where brothers Jan and Miles invite amazing people to talk about the meaningful books in their lives. So, whether you're a literature enthusiast, an advocate for social justice, or simply curious about the untold stories that shape our world, subscribe to the Mahogany Books Podcast Network on your favorite platform, and let African American literature ignite your passion. How y'all feeling? How are you all feeling? I am so pumped. Let me calm down. First of all, let me calm down. I am so pumped up for a number of reasons. And I wrote my script down so I won't forget anything because it is important to me to read what some of these, both, um, both of these young ladies have accomplished. But first, as she mentioned, I am Ramunda Lark Young, co owner of Mahogany Books with my amazing husband, Derek Young, somewhere out here, somewhere. Yes, I see you. Yes. Yes, yes. We just celebrated our 22nd wedding anniversary. Yes, yes. 22 years married and 17 years in business making black books accessible. That's what we're doing. Yes, yes, yes. Just a little bit about us. It has, we've been working for 17 years. We started in our one bedroom apartment in Alexandria, Virginia. But we wanted people to have access to black books no matter where they lived. We didn't want to leave that to chance for somebody else to decide. That's what we're doing. So Mahogany Books was born. We have a location at National Harbor, one in Anacostia, and a little footprint in National Airport. So this is something very serious to us. And when we look at the audience and see all of your faces that show up time and time again for these moments, these pieces of community that bring us together, We don't take that lightly. So please give yourself a round of applause. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Really quickly. I want to give a big shout out to our venue host, the amazing DC Public Library. Please help. Yes. Clap it up for them. Yes. And then additionally, really quickly, the DC Public Library Foundation, which I'm a proud board member, helped to provide some of the books for tonight's audience members. DC Public Library Foundation. Yes, yes, yes. And then lastly, before I introduce our, our amazing, uh, moderator, if you're taking photos, please tag us. Please tag Tomi, please tag Zai, please tag Mahogany Books. Those pictures mean so much to so many people. Us and other people who, who wished they could have been here, but y'all got the best seats in the house, I'm just saying. But take pictures. Um, so anyway, let's get into it. Zai Silla, celebrating black stories across film and fiction, literature, literature, Zai, an accomplished actress and creator, is on a mission to amplify black narratives. Under the platform name, Zai Rambles, she weaves magic across screens and pages. From reaching millions with her African mythology recommendations, to championing black characters in anime and Netflix, Zai is a force to be reckoned with. Inspired by Issa Rae's mantra, she's rooting for everybody black, yes, recently she starred in The Kitchen. Her presence at the NAACP Image Awards and the BAFTA Ceremonies added to her illustrious journey. Y'all, please help me welcome to the stage our Dope Conversation host, Xy Scylla! Hey! Yes! Hey! Absolutely, absolutely. Hello! Hey! Yes! Right? Yes, give it up! So let's, okay, everybody pause. Calm down, calm down. Let's get into it. We are here for our featured author this evening. She was named one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People, Tomi Adeyemi. She is a Hugo and Nebula award winning Nigerian American writer and storyteller, yes, based in New York. After graduating from Harvard University, y'all didn't hear me say that, from Harvard University, With honors and a degree in English literature, she also studied West African mythology, religion, and culture in Salvador, Brazil. Her first novel, everybody knows what the first novel is. Who knows what the, let me hear you on the count of three. One, two, three. Yes. Okay. We're in the right building. Yes. Her first novel Children of Blood and Bone debuted at number one on the New York Times bestsellers list. It's highly anticipated sequel Children of Virtue and Vengeance also debuted at number one on the New York Times bestsellers. Tomi's Legacy of Orisha Trilogy, um, is being developed into a feature film by Paramount Pictures with Gina Prince Bythewood. Yes! Yes! That deserves its own space. Yes! Um, Tomi was also named to Forbes 30 under 30 in media and her website was named one of the 101 best websites for writers by Writers Digest. Please, y'all, put your hands together. And help me welcome to the stage, my girl, Tomi Adeyemi. Oh my Wow, you guys! Oh, I already, I was sitting back, or like, I was backstage right before this and I was like, oh, please get a tissue. Um, I didn't think I was going to cry tonight because I cried mostly all of yesterday. But you guys, like I love you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being here right now. Thank you for celebrating the end of this trilogy and this journey and I just can't wait to like meet you and talk to you and I honestly I want to have as much time for your questions as possible. So Zai, I'm kicking it off. I'm kicking it off to you. I got it. I got it. I got it. Thank you so much for being here. This is, this is incredible. I like the energy in the room. Like you, like you carry on. You know, like little, little fun story to kind of start of this has been a long time in the making, you know. I messaged homie back in 2021. Literally, I was just like, um, Hey, I just, I would love to just like jump on a zoom with you. Talk with my favorite author. She replied, she was like, yes, we're going to do an interview. You're going to be like Rihanna and Beyonce. And I was like, um, yeah, yeah, let's, let's do it. And uh, three years, here we are. Here we are. Here we are. And I honestly, I still don't know what it is about Zai that made me like, reply that way. Like, I didn't even read her, what she sent to me correctly. I was like, Oh my gosh, this cute little poet in London, like we should do something. We should do it. Let's do it. And then I just, For years, I couldn't get her out of my mind. And like, we joke about this at my publisher because I'm like, Yes, Kris Jenner works hard, but Zy Rambles works even harder, so I just want to give a, a snap for your hustle because you really make things happen. Thank you. Okay. You're the one who's supposed to cry, not me. Um, okay. So we've been waiting for this book a while and I so appreciate you bringing it out. I know you felt this. I see you and I appreciate you. Great things comes with patience though. Let me tell you, this book is packing a bunch. And if you thought that the world she was introducing us to in book one and book two was already amazing. Book three is like completely different. And the, the elements that you actually introduced to me, introduced like new elements of like cultures and stuff like that. Why, why does elements, you know? Yeah, I, going into this series, I knew what the conflict of book one, two, and three was going to be. Just for a show of hands, how many people have read book two? Oh, yes. Sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm not trying to swear at all. I didn't swear. You beautiful young children. I did not swear. You heard nothing. You are angels. I'm so sorry, mom and dad. I'm so sorry. Um, I'm not swearing. Um, okay, so we can just talk. Those hands went up so fast. I think, okay. I want to give not a disclaimer because I kind of don't believe in disclaimers. Okay. Like a very, you, how many people, okay, let's just keep doing how many people. How many people have had like a very magical, mystical black woman just come into your life and like, kind of speak a little prophecy into you and then walk away? I love it. I love it. Ooh, I can't wait to hear yours. See, these are, you guys, I'm adopting you now. So, last week, a woman called me. And she was like, your world is so much bigger than you realize. And she was explaining to me, she's like, you know, this has been like a seven year journey, and if you, someone, someone who is my everything, and I, I kind of tell her this every day, like, with a different cat meme, um, But it's literally, like, one of the reasons I am here. And this is why I needed tissues. Um, she told me that this isn't just finishing a series, this is kind of saying goodbye to the girl who had the dream of doing something like this. Um, so that girl's been with me for half my life, and I've been writing since I was this tall. So All of these things are wrapped in this, and when this woman told me that your world is so much bigger than you realize. She's like, you've been, you've been in this creative world. You've been in Orisha. You've been with like the gods and Xaeli and Zayn. And then I was like, yeah. And then I think about my world and it's me and a laptop and a bunch of post it notes in a dark room. Like that's the, that's the cave I've been in. And like, I know you're like, but girl, I see your Instagram. It's like, yes, if I'm going to leave the cave, I'm going to show out. Like, you know, you got me outside. Like let's make a lasting impression. Cause I'm not coming back for five years, but it's like, I spend a lot of time in the dark alone with my laptop and a bunch of post it notes. And so nearly a decade of that. And so I come into a room like this and my heart and mind doesn't know what to do with the fact that you guys read these stories. It's, um, I know you're like, Girl, duh, but I'm like, really, it's just like, um, the human element of it is really getting to me, uh, the co, the communal aspect of it. I think I've been focusing on, okay, yes, we'll really see and feel the community when we're all in one theater and we're watching Xaeli's journey, but like, for me, this is my theater. Um, and I'm like, Oh, these are all these people on my journey. Ooh, we're not swearing. So we're just crying. We're not swearing. So it's, um, it is so meaningful, uh, and tender and precious to my heart. I feel like I have Patrick Ta's like on till dawn spray. So like the makeup should last through this. We'll see. Um. It's, it's, it's so precious to my heart to look at this room and see all of you here and yeah, it's not a disclaimer. I think it's just like I, I, I think I just want to share where I am right now in this moment so that we can take this next like hour we have together and I don't know, just create and do crazy things. Like I keep asking them, I was like, can you just start the event playing Nuck if you buck because then I won't have a chance to cry. So we might just stop in the middle and do that, but for now I think we'll, we'll return to whatever the question might've been. Yeah, what was the question? I'm just going to let you flow. I'm going to let you flow. I kind of want to add to that. Like. Okay. How many people in this room? Okay. Cause I know children are blown changed my life and continues to change my life. You know that I want to know how many people in the room like children has changed. Your life has made you look at the world differently. You expanded, you connected to a culture other than your own. See lift your head, lift your head, lift your head. Come on, come on. Okay. So this is, We understand. We understand. We're here. We see you and we celebrate you today. Thank you. Thank you. Um, the question was, you're introducing new elements and new cultures in the final book. You know, like first we had like West African mythology. Now, We're having a whole new villain from a whole new culture and an ally from a whole new culture as well, you know. Like, Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. No, this is on the back of the book. This is on the back of the book. Yeah, this isn't a spoiler. I'm like, this is all the promo material. There shall be no spoilers here. I would never do that to you. There's no spoilers. Um, well, okay. We'll just say the world is expanding. The reason that is happening is it's I would say it's maybe two fold. So one fold is sort of the objective, meaning it doesn't change. Cause when I started the series, or no, when I started to see that this series could sell to a publisher and I might get to write three books. Um, because prior to that I'd spent about four and a half years writing a young adult fantasy and that fantasy got 63 rejections from literary agents. Yeah, and like I remember like I was like, ooh, I was I was planning out that entire storyline I was like and then and then in book three that she's gonna open the gates of hell and like, you know Like I was really I was getting in it cuz I was like and this is what it means to be a writer and I'm gonna Know so many things and then I'm like, oh no one's gonna read book one So I changed the way I thought about writing and publishing. And I was like, I'm going to give everything to one book. I planned five books I was going to write. Um, and I was like, and then if someone pays me, I'll figure out what happens next. And when I was like, Ooh, I think someone might pay you girl. So I was like, what's going to happen next? I knew in book two, it would be like, okay, it was a fight to bring magic back. Now it's I'd still want to be spoiler alert, even though you guys like all rose your hand, but I want to be really safe. Oh my God. I got like soft tissues, soft life. Okay. So thank you. Thank you very much. I knew it would be a battle for power, for control over the kingdom. Um, because I think I think in, when, in the real world that we live in and we have to share and face and see every day, it's like, when I started this series, I was like, if we could just fix police brutality, everything is alright. Everything will be perfect. Let's just focus on this problem. And then, fast forward, six years. And it's like, cool. So if we could just fix that world crisis and also keep fixing this problem we haven't fixed and also maybe have Sabah Tahir run for president. And also it's just like, we have, there's no one solution. Like life is very, uh, It's, it's, I don't want to say messy and complicated, but I don't know about you. I think I grew up with a, let's fix it, it's a perfectionist mindset. It's like we can think our way out of this, we can grind our way out of this. And I think the older I've gotten, the more I've realized like, oh, this life is, is actually an ecosystem. And I don't necessarily have the answers to what to do in an ecosystem, but seeing it more as an ecosystem as opposed to like, what's that game where you have to whack a mole? I think it was like, oh, if I could just whack this mole, we live in a utopia. If I could just whack this mole, things will be great for America. If I could just get every kid, like, education and this thing, things would, like, I used to think like that. And then Now I'm seeing like Hungry Hungry Hippo, it's like you just, you can't. And I'm also like, not a politician, but still, it's just like, I imagine the people in this room also think about these things and it's weighing on your hearts and your mind and not just what's happening in our community, but what's happening in the world because we're also more connected than ever. And so, You know, you go from seeing a body roll on TikTok to seeing like one of the most horrific things you could ever possibly imagine and, and then you have to go get on a Zoom meeting. It's like we're in a very weird space and it's not a space that's existed before. So I knew book two would be a conflict of like, Zaley thought all she had to do was bring magic back and think, and things would be right. But the only, the deeper reason she wanted to bring magic back was so she would have enough power to protect her father because she had never healed from the pain of losing her mother and she's like, I will not heal if I lose my father. So if I have magic, I can keep him safe. And then at the end of book one, it's like, it is literally his loss that allows her to bring magic back. So she starts book two completely broken, completely disillusioned. Um, and I, I don't know about you, I can raise my hand, I don't, let's, I like this raise hand like sort of kindergarten vibe we got going on. Raise your hand if you have been completely disillusioned with life between now and 2018. And it's hard. I don't know what to do with that. I don't know what to do with that. Um, but that's what the, the trouble is in book two. And something I saw in book three, I always knew there was going to be a bigger enemy that they had to face. But when I started writing book three in 2020, I felt like I was watching my country tear itself apart. Um, and at the time I was living in San Diego, so I also was around a lot of veterans. And that was a very interesting perspective for me because they've seen the world from a militaristic standpoint. Um, and I just very much felt like we, if we tear ourselves apart, if we tear ourselves apart, we won't be here anymore. And I don't want to be one of those alarmist on TikTok. That's like, we're in the fourth turning right now. You have to move to that. I was like, okay, let's stop it. Like, so go back to the body rolls. But it's like, I just felt that and I wanted to write, I wanted to use Orisha as like this community that's been tearing itself apart. And there's someone who's been waiting to capitalize on that. Um, so, so that's the expansion of the world. And I also wanted to give a nod to Brazil because that's where, like, I used to say, I discovered the Orisha. I'm like, no, that's where the Orisha discovered me. That's where I got my, like, Spider Man spider bite. And they were like, write these books. And I'm like, oh, and seven years later, I'm like, okay, please bite someone. Like, thank you, but please bite someone else. Um, so, so that's why we're in a, a new world. I wanted to. Forced my characters to realize like, wow, we were, I was focused on you. Meanwhile, there was someone there watching us and just waiting for the moment to strike. And now we have to figure out what to do. This, I love that. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Uh, it makes so much more sense when you're like weaving it in like this all together. Um, I also want to say there are so many full messages throughout the whole series, you know, like so many moments, like the pressure that Zelie is facing, like in book two and, You know, like her, her and Amari kind of like are a reflection of each other, like a mirror, you know. Book one, Zelie is the brave one. And in book two, Amari is the brave one, you know. Um, I, from like the ancestors to like this message of peace and harmony and working together, like which one was your driving force? The one that, you know, I mean, I'm a militant person. It's, I mean, I've made peace with it, but like. I was explaining to someone yesterday, like, the funniest thing over the years has been, like, seeing you guys be like, I'm so mad at Amari, I hate her! And like, and this, and I'm like, oh, this is helping me see where you might be like a little divergent in your thinking, because I'm like, I, I would do it again. Like, that's, I'm like, this is my kingdom, and these people are in my way. So, um, um. Not that America needs a queen, but if we need, if we wanted one, like anyway, anyway, anyway, let's focus. Let's not start a new Republic. Three mahogany books. Anyway, these are kind of my dreams. So I would say, I don't want to say that like peace. I am an Aquarian moon, you know? And I think. I love my Aquarians, especially sons. All of my Aquarius sons have been like coming into my life lately. Um, and if one of you is psychic and can tell me why, please do. I'm not joking. Okay. Um, As an Aquarius son, deeply empathetic, I think Aquarians are the humanitarians of the Zodiac. So they are striving. Yes, you're like, humanity, peace. Um, but I'm a Scorpio rising. Um, and Scorpios are like the, that girl from the ring. Of the Zodiac. So you're like, is it P? And this is why I love Xi. Xi literally radiates love. And I'm like, yes, war, passion, my people, love. Um, I love my people hard. But I also love my people aggressively. Like someone like, like kind of like, I think actually, I think my mom actually like accidentally ran over someone with her suitcase, but like I was ready to fight the man. I'd be like, get out of my mother's way, sir. Um, so that's where I lean towards. I do lean towards the fight. I do think it's important to fight, especially like in this world and in this society where We're really, we're, we're, we're not just socialized to be meek and socialized to be grateful. Um, it's like we're systemized into it. It takes a lot to sit up with your back straight and look someone dead in the eye and say, no. Like, I was like, put me on Mount Rushmore just for doing that. Like, and that took so long in my career, like, it's, we're not, you have to fight. And I know there's all those quotes, like, in a world where there's no justice, like, to fight is justice. I know there's, there's very poetic ways of saying it. Um, but it's like, yes, at the base level you want humanity and you want respect for all. So if you're not going to give it, then it's like, yes, I'm going to fight for it. If you're going to do, and if it comes to a child. I saw a mom on a TikTok the other day, and she was like, I'm telling you boys right now, stop messing with my daughter. Yeah. She's like, stop messing with my daughter. And she's like, and the funny thing is the teacher was sitting right here and she was like, Call your mom, call your sister, call anyone over 18, and they can catch these hands, okay? Stop messing with my daughter. And I'm like, yes, like, because that maternal energy is, it's real. You know, especially mothers. No one fights harder than a mother. Like no one holds on longer than a mother. I meet so many readers who have come to this book through grief, through losing a mother, through losing a father. And when I get to hold them, I'm like, you know, she's never left you, right? I'm like, mothers cannot leave. They literally can't. They are so bound to you. A mother's like, a mother's love doesn't even bring me to tears yet because I haven't experienced it. I have a great mind. I cannot put my mind and heart around a mother's love. Do not mess with a mother, you know, and do not mess with a mother's kids. Especially and so many of my readers feel like my kids. So I was like do not I was like it will get cardi B It will get knock if you buck Um, so it's all of that You're like do you are you on the side of peace and harmony or ancestors and i'm like war i'm on the side of war I think we should fight um I I I agree with zaylee. I agree with zaylee. I think we should fight. Um, but you said there's shadow sides It's Zaley and Amari are, like, Amari is my shadow side. So it's like, you know, in book one, Amari has to learn to use her voice. And I felt like I was learning to use my voice. Um, in book two, I don't want to say Amari goes crazy dictator because I feel like that's something we use to demean women. I was like, these were very strategic decisions. And yes, in war there will be a loss of, again, don't put like, I was like, don't put me in charge of a country, but like definitely do it and it'll be great. So, and everyone will look great. Anyway, I was like, the food will be great. High nutritional value. Anyway. Um, yeah. So that's why it's like, I don't hate my characters because actually to write them, I have to be in love with them. I have to really, really sit and become each one of them and understand why they're doing the things they do. So yeah. Okay. So I do have to ask if, if you love your characters, if you love your characters, what about the ones we lost? You know, no spoilers, no spoilers, but I do want to say like, you know, like, When you kill off a character, how do you feel? How do you think we're going to feel? You know? Let's keep her accountable! I grieve too. I grieve. It's like, there's even a character in book three, and I know all of you guys are going to be asking about this character, and I'm, and I have, I have an answer. You'll be like, but what, and I was like, because, and I can tell you, I grieve. I grieve with you. Like, I don't just do this, like, Um, I sit at my computer and I sob because I'm like this, like, we, we lose the most beautiful souls. You know, this book is a lot about grief. We lose beautiful souls. What? What? What's happening? What am I doing wrong? Wait, wait, if this is No, this isn't a spoiler, this is in general. This is in general. Don't worry, don't worry. Guys, I am spoiler free. I'm professional. You guys keep saying she's spoiling everything. I have told you nothing. I'm not telling you anything. And even if she did, I would not tell you. I would leave you alone in your bedroom to grieve. Okay, I'm like at me with your tears. Someone did. They, they said I finished the book at 3am. I'm in bed crying. And like a little bit, I'm like, yes. But, but I don't write it to make you cry. I don't. I promise. You're like, I don't believe you. I don't. Um, anybody that you cried over in this book, I promise you I have sobbed while writing, while editing, because it's like, they're the angels. They're the angels. And it's like, when we lose angels in real life, it's like, why? Why? A lot of this series started through the grief of all the angels we lost. And I'm like, okay, all of these headlines. I'm like, that's my cousin. That's my brother. That's my mother. That's me. So it's, I think to re life, I think the unifying people are like death and taxes. I was like, I think pain. I think it's actually pain. Now I do think in life we have love, We have joy. We have community. We have like just these things that glitter through our soul. You know, like life has a lot of beauty. We have beauty. I'm like, look at Saba. Like we have beauty in this life. Um, but I think what we all have is pain and I couldn't write this series. I think it would be, I couldn't do it without there being pain. You know, and even our like most kid kind of literature, I was like, when you watch The Lion King now, you're like, this is actually kind of messed up to show to a six, like when you watch dogs watching The Lion King and being like, whoa, Mufasa, and you know, and we're like this, and we're like, whoa, and I'm like, that's, that's a really messed up story. That is a painful. Horrible story that is a child living with the guilt of killing his father Who is not only the king of Pride Rock, but the entire sun in the sky You know this like Simba is a story of shame and overcoming that shame in that shadow and Needing a very sexy Nala to come and be like get your act together You know like that's what the story is and so Like, even our youngest stories, our most iconic stories, are filled with horrible pain, tragedy and loss. You know? And now we try and soften it, but when it hits us in life, it's not soft. It's awful. It's awful. It's like, like, I don't know, I feel like I'm sensing someone's pain in the room right now because it doesn't feel like my pain, but it's hitting my heart. You know? And also, So that's why I don't do it just to laugh gleefully and be like, I've made him cry. No, I don't do that. I might do that singing thing, but not because of your tears. Okay. That brings me comfort. That brings me comfort. Although I do want to say that book three is pain. It's called anguish. I will not, I will not say anything. I was like, at least it's, I didn't, did I, did I lie? Did she lie? Yeah. Yeah. Subbed. I did. Subbed. I did. Um, I want to ask as well for the finale and the book series. Is there anything that you really wanted to include but didn't get to? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay, let's do something for book one or book two, like, without any spoilers for book three. Well, I'll, well, I'll say this, because I feel like in a month I'll be able to talk about book three, and I'll be able to answer the question that I think most readers will have. There was a version of book three that had about, like, 200 extra pages. I know, here's the thing, guys. Here's the thing, you always tweet me, you always tweet me, and you're like, we want them all. Cut nothing. Give them all. Give us everything. No. No. Um, I think the difference between the writer I am now and the writer I was when I started is I would say there is a bit of a ruthlessness of pen. And a ruthlessness of, I want to do this for these reasons. I want to do this for a personal reason, but if I am going to give dignity to the real situation that these characters are in, this doesn't make any sense. Um, and if I'm going to give dignity to like this culture I've built, then this culture I brought in that has like two lines, it's, it's, it's, it's not working. It's not working. So it, it's sort of like, um, I don't know why I'm seeing Masterchef Junior. But I'm seeing Gordon Ramsay baking a wedding cake, but I'm seeing Masterchef Junior like above his head. I don't, we'll talk about that in therapy. But like, it's, it's, it's like you have all the layers of the cake, you gotta start sculpting, and you gotta carve down, and you have to be like, what is, what's the actual rock, what's the diamond? Um, so it's like I gave you the diamond, even though I want to give you. the, kind of the opera, but I'm like, I got to give dignity to the story and I got to give dignity to the characters and you could only do so much at once. Um, so yeah, well you'll have that full answer in like a month when I get to talk about it, but see, no spoilers. Prepare the book clubs, prepare the book clubs. There are book clubs. I know we're going to be online in like a month too, because again, Kris Jenner works hard. Zai works harder. So, we'll have more. Yeah. Um, so, you have a QR code that you can actually scan to ask your questions, so Cute! Yes. Right here, and also on your screens as well for the people at the back. I'm going to start reading out as well the questions. So, um, Stella asked, which character was the most difficult to write? Stella, are you here? Yay. Hi, Stella Oh. Oh, this is so fun. Um, I, the most difficult character to write initially was Amari, because Amari didn't exist in the inception of the story. I know. You're like, what? What? This is why we come. This is why you're here, because now you know. And then someone will be like, Oh yeah, I really love this character. You're like, Did you know actually in the original inception of the story, like, you know, this is why we're here to stunt on people with knowledge. So in the original inception of the story, I knew I had the world of Aresha. I had Xaeli. I knew there was a scroll that she could use to bring magic back. And I knew that there was a prince that was against her. But I needed a way to get the scroll to Xaeli. And so for a plot reason, Amari was born. And in the early drafts of children, I mean the draft you guys read was like draft 40. Um, so in the early drafts, like the first 20 drafts, it was very difficult for me to hone Amari's voice. Cause whenever I would get to her, like, I was, I was very Xaeli coded at the time. So I would get to her and I'd be like, Oh, it's Sandy in the desert, princess. And like, you know, like, Like having snark against your characters. Um, And, but then we get to the, the ship battle scene. And here's the thing. Like, I way more resonate as a human with Amari in the ship battle scene than with any other character. Like, that's actually crazy. And, and that moment where she's like, I have to do this, like, Xaeli's in trouble. And, and she takes the knife, and like, she, she makes her first kill. Um, that's when I started to say, there's something about you. And then by the end of the story, like, now my favorite line, In that entire book is when she stabs King Saron. And she's like, don't worry, I will be a better queen. And ooh, in Spanish. That line, when I got the script. And she's like, And I was like, Like it is very good in Spanish. I cannot wait for this Spanish dub. I'm going to be like, that's going to be on all the time. Um, That's the moment I cannot wait for in the movie. And there's a lot of moments, but that's the one where I'm gonna get like, tip over the movie thing, like throw my popcorn at the screen. And I don't condone making a mess. I actually don't, but I'm going to be so hype because I'm like, yeah, I'm like, yeah, glow. That's how I feel about Amari. I'm like stabbing and stabbing and taking king tomes. Yeah, glow. Like that's how I feel about Amari by the end. She became my favorite character. I think she has the most beautiful arc in book one and gosh, I can't wait to see who gets to be Amaria. That's great. Um, I can't wait. I'm, I'm fascinated by her. So it's very, it's kind of a beautiful thing about the creative process. Like the, something that you're like, Oh, why does this have to be here? That becomes, in my opinion, the most powerful arc. in that entire story. Thank you, Stella. Okay. Next we have Kristen who said, I've listened to audio versions of book one and two, and Barney Topin is an absolute legend. I'm so excited to hear what Cynthia Erivo will bring to Zelie's version. I also want to say, into this question, Auntie Cintia, she has given me her permission to actually call her like that, you know, she commented on one, under one of my videos, she said you can call me like that, so Auntie Cintia. Okay, okay, Zai, you see this networker? So, you know, like, how was it to also like bring her to life, you know, to kind of like give an insight to how her voice and her acting, you know, brings this whole new voice to Children of Anguish and Anarchy? Yeah, it was, they asked me in the beginning, they were like, Okay, do you want kind of what guidelines do you want to give her? And I was like, I don't want to give her, I was like, I want she's an artist. I was like, And her, to me, her greatest artistry is her voice. I was like, I want her to use her artistry. I don't want to put like, Oh, we, we did it like this, or we said it like this. I'm like, I think the beauty, cause it's like, I love Bonnie Turpin and so many of my readers, like she won audio book of the year with children of blood and bone, like Bonnie Turpin is incredible. So it's like. the only reason I was like, I want this, I want to make this happen is because one, Cynthia was so passionate. And two, I thought it'd be so beautiful to have another Nigerian bringing this to life and, and just a creative collaboration. And, and it gives me chills. Her, her, like, I was like rendition narration. It gives me chills. I really like, I, I can't go through like. I can do like maybe four minutes and then I'm like and we'll see you next week Because it's just it's very it it overwhelms me And I don't like to be overwhelmed so So yeah, no, it's really incredible I love that. Like, I just want to like, listen to it just to have her voice in my head. Um, but also like, Cintia River is an actress and I do have to ask the question. Yes. You know, in terms of big names for the movie, you know, there's this, there's this little group of like Nigerian actors like John Boyega, all of that, you know, you know, okay, okay. Are there any of those big names that I can't talk about who I want in the movie anymore because we start casting next month. So, yeah, and I am, there are certain people, you know, we've talked to certain people about certain things and there are some things I'm, dying to scream at you guys so we could all be like but Like you know how like Tom Holland was the problem child of the Avengers and he was always giving things I like I don't want Paramount to know that I am the Tom Holland So I've been on my best Um, and haven't said anything, but like now I can't say it because if I go like, Oh my God, I'd love for this person to be, and then like this person gets it. And then I meet that person on set and then they're like, Oh, hey, tell me. And I'm like, well, no, we're not doing this. We're not doing this. Don't don't let's not, I don't want this energy on set. Um, but I will say of the conversations we've had, the things that have struck me the most is like the humility. that people are bringing to this project. Both, like, in front of the screen and behind the screen. Cause, you know, we're talking to, like, Academy Award nominated, like, production designers. Like, people who have designed costumes that have, like, touched pop culture and, like, made waves. And, like, even these actors and actresses that have been in, like, billion dollar movies. Like, we're talking to people. The, there's just this sort of joined philosophy, joint philosophy of like, we want to create from here and bring something to the people. And I think that's very opposite of what Hollywood typically is. Cause I think Hollywood is typically like, Peasants here, you know, like, and you know, there was, there was an age for that. There was an age for that glamour and that this, but I think it's really beautiful to, to have people coming together, not just with passion for the project, but, but passion for the people who the project is for. Um, yeah, so we're, we're in a beautiful spot. I've always told you guys, like, look at my eyes. You know, because contractually I probably can't say what's, if it's bad, but look at my eyes and my eyes will tell you, um, we're in an amazing spot. We're in an amazing spot. Like the things I've even seen off like a, like a choreographed fight scene. Xaeli, her staff, versus 20 guards, and then I had to destroy the footage. Like, that's how, like, I was like, we're moving, and like, there, I, Gina Prince Bythewood, I was like, she's a Gemini, but I promise you she is the general of Ba Sing Se. I promise you. And I tell her every day, I'm like, I can't wait to read your birth chart. And she's like, great. Can you tell me this? And I was like, yes. And I can't wait to know what your moon is. I know you got to have it be a Virgo moon. I know you got, because it's like she, this is her. And this is the entire production. Steady. Gina and time, like time knows no enemy. She's gonna be like, you're, she's already told me I'm crazy. And I was like, I am. And I'm in service of you. So like the combination of all of this We're, we're not just coming for, for, like, Twilight, Hunger Games, Potter, Black Panther. It's like, we're, we're, we're, we're coming from Lord of the Rings throat. Okay? We're coming. We're, we're competitive. We're like, no, this is war. This is a movie. And this movie is war. And it's time to like, there should be no movies after this movie. It should be illegal. In my country. So anyway, it's like, we launched the movie. I launched my reign as queen of the United, I don't know. We'll, we'll, we'll group, think a good name. Um, but yes, it's, it's gonna be amazing. It's going to be, It's gonna be a, it's, it's, I'm, I was gonna say a time turner, but it is, it is gonna be a landmark. Not just for our people, not just for our souls, but for cinema. Yeah. Children and Blood and Bone to the world! That's what's going to happen. We have Christine who's asking, how do you ground yourself enough to write thematically about traumatic events that we are still living through? Where's Christine? Hi. Wow. Wow. What a question. I don't, not that I don't know how to lie. Um, I think at this point of my career, I am no longer living in the traumas that I am actively writing about. So for book one, book two and book three, I was actively living in whatever pain that I was writing about. Um, so there was no grounding and That's not a sustainable thing, we'll at least say. Especially for like seven ish years. Um, I was always in the midst of the storm that I was putting on page. And that was just what my heart was going through. And then there was deadlines and marketing and like all these different things and you know, like I know I've talked about it on some interviews But a big reason book three took such a long time is because I got really sick in like 2021 and so if it was five years between book Two and book three like for three of those years. I was really really sick for about one and a half of those years, I was recovering from being sick. So book three was written almost entirely in sickness and it took a long time because of that. And so I just finished my fourth novel two weeks ago and it's up. Thank you. Thank you. Um, it is not set in this world, so it's a new series. But I wrote it in six months. And it was the first time I wasn't writing about the storm I was in. I, the way I described it is I was like, it was like I could see the storm I was in and I was sitting, if it was over the water, I was like sitting on an inlet and I had like a canvas on an easel and I was painting it and it was so, Ooh. It was intensely beautiful to witness that storm. And very scary to realize that I was in that storm. Because, again, this was the first time I was painting the storm from a distance. So, I think now, Like around the eight year mark in my career, I have the tools as a human being, whether that be Like therapy, journaling, community, not locking yourself in the dark for hours, um, and weeks on end, and just writing. Being able to communicate when I need more time on a deadline. being able to build a marketing campaign that doesn't result in me getting very sick. Like it was a bit of learn. I don't want to say trial and error. It's like you can only know you. Something I learned about life as a reform perfectionist is like, Oh, the best thing you can do is just learn. You are going to make mistakes. You are going to make errors. You're going to make giant mistakes. It's actually about the course correction. And it's about if you keep making the same mistake again and again and again, that's when you can start being mad at yourself. But you, you don't have to be upset about yourself for any mistake for any time. You're like, why did I go left when I clearly could have gone right? Like life has, what's it called? It's not bandwidth slack. I found life actually has some slack in it. And so if you were making your best effort every day, like, like you, it'll be alright. And that's what I found. So now I'm very grounded. But I'm not living through the storms. I, I face the storms. And then I paint about it. And I, I, I find that it's been a really beautiful way of also just rehabilitating my creativity. Um, So yeah, that's, that's the answer. That's an amazing question. We're gonna go for, this is it. One more question. One more question, come on. Um, choose wisely. One more question from Mo who said, if you had to name the ideal song or album to pair with this book, what would it be? Oh, Haha. Haha. Haha. Sorry. He said, not give you buck. And I was like, this book is in five parts for part one, I think around chapter like seven or eight, you could start playing that. And you know, you just see Zalee laughing. See the things that give me delight. Um, There is one song by Chelsea Wolfe. It's called, I think it's called The Waves. And when you listen to it, so it's not even an album, it's one song. I would say that, that is the emotion of this book. It's a really deep song. Um, it's also beautiful. It's sorrow, it's full of sorrow, but it's also full of catharsis. And I think especially towards the end, I wrote the end of this book to that song and repeat again and again and again. And it was the most intense writing experience I have ever had. So, that, that's the song, if, if there's a song. And then, I imagine, I'll cheat it, there's a vocal group called The Faux Paws, and they have a acapella cover. version of The Dog Days Are Over. And I always imagine that playing at the very end. And I won't say anymore. No spoilers. See, you know, we've been locked in. Yeah. Thank you so much, Tomi. This is the end of our conversation. Thank you. Tomi! Give it up for Tomi! Tomi! Tomi! Tomi! Tomi! Tomi! Tomi! Tomi! Tomi! Discover a world where words ignite change. Tune in to Black Books Matter the podcast, where we celebrate the profound impact of African American literature. Join us as we delve into iconic works and hidden gems, discussing their power to shape minds and transform societies. Get ready for thought provoking discussions, author interviews, and insights that matter. Don't miss out! Subscribe to Black Books Matter the podcast on your favorite podcast platform and let the voices of African American authors resonate with you.