Navigating Relationships and Success: Lessons in Love from Khadeen and Devale

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Let's get this party started. Y'all ready? Right. So I have the honor of introducing our amazing moderator, Ms. Jeanette Reyes. Jeanette Reyes is a seasoned reporter. An influencer. In 2020, she was hired by Fox 5 in Washington, right here in D. C. as the morning news anchor role that shows off her multiple skills. From her values as a journalist to the fact that she speaks multiple linguas. Multiple? Just two. Okay. Two. Bye. Dos. Okay. But please help me welcome Jeanette to the stage. Thank you for moderating tonight.

Who watches Fox 5? Who watches starting at six in the morning? Who's supposed to be in bed? Okay. I'm supposed to be in bed, but this was well worth it to come out and be with y'all tonight. Thank you for coming out. I really appreciate this. Um, this for me is off the record. We don't have these conversations at work, at least during the commercials. We might, uh, but we're, we're going to get real. We're going to get deep tonight. If you guys know, you know, that that's. That's their motto. Right? They, they get real. It's unfiltered. I do want to know though, get a bit of a, of the lay of the land here who's single show hands who is in a relationship, situation ship, entanglement, who does not know what the heck they're in. Okay. I listen. It happens. It's okay. It's okay. All right. Well, hopefully you all feel inspired. You get some clarity tonight and, um, You might walk out of here and feel like I'm ready to make a decision, right? Personally in my life. All right. So, uh, let's get to it here. Uh, I want to introduce you to the stars of the night here. Deval is a former NFL player, now an actor and singer. Star on Tyler Perry's sisters and his very own spinoff, uh, shows a team on BT. Cadeen is a former entertainment reporter, content creator, actress, and businesswoman. They are the parents of four beautiful boys and together they are the co creator of the Ellis's on YouTube and their Webby award winning podcast, Dead S, which they live by. Uh, join me in welcoming Cadeen and Deval. Let's go. Let's go. Yes.

It's giving black history month. Excellent. Look at all of these beautiful faces.

I am so

excited tonight. How y'all feeling? We're feeling great. Do you ever, do you ever get a little nervous

before these things? I think it's always a little like anxiety just to kind of get started and meeting everybody. So it's natural. But then once I get here, Nah,

I haven't played football. It's like When you have to try to catch a punt in front of 80, 000 people and 4 million people watching at home and that ball goes up in the air and it's like this big and you got 250 pound men running down to kill you. Once you've been through that, it's kind of like, eh, what am I nervous?

We can't relate to that specifically. He puts me through some football workouts though, so he makes me feel like I'm an athlete. Well, I'm excited to talk to y'all and I'm sure they are as well. I, I'm going to. Let's start like with the basics here. Okay. Why write a book? Why put, I mean, I know you all put your business out there and people love it cause you inspire them and you, you're relatable, but why get into detail, put it in writing where it lives on forever and ever?

That was actually my apprehension. I was like, once a book is out there and black and white on paper, there's no turning back. Like my grandkids, my great grandkids, if books are still around by then, I think there'll still be a living thing, but I'm like, they're going to be able to see all my business in these streets. Right. Um, but a book made sense for us. I felt like it was kind of a natural succession for us because we of course started with our, you know, putting videos on Instagram and then our YouTube channel. Then we had dead ass, which was actually, I felt like it was an Thanks. Extension of the video. So if we talk about something, for example, finances in a funny video, we were able to unpack that in a podcast episode, but then also to Deval And I looked at the 20 years that we've had together so far, and 12 married, and we're like, you know what? Social media oftentimes tends to be the highlight reel. Of everything going on and I meet people sometimes and they're like, you know, I can't wait to find my deval or I wish I had me a cadene and I'm like, well, deval and cadene y'all see here today are not deval and cadene 20 years ago. It took a lot of work and sacrifice. to get here. So it was important for us to really think about moments that we can put in the book that were pivotal for us as a couple. So people can see that we've been putting in the work for a very long time.

For me, it was just books are like the earliest medium when you, Oh,

is that somebody's boss going off in

the It would give me spaceship vibes, like beam me up Scotty, you hear it? That's an interesting ringtone. It was

an interesting ringtone. But um, if you think about all the mediums that have come and gone, right? Like DVDs, no one uses those anymore. CDs, 8 track, cassette tapes. Books don't go anywhere. And if you want to leave your imprint on humanity, what better way than to do it in a book?

The subtitle really stood out to me, the counterintuitive approach to getting everything you want from a relationship. What stood out to me was counterintuitive. What does that mean in this context?

Well, if you really think about the world we live in today, right, there are so many conversations on social media about what men deserve and what women deserve, right? And it's become a battle of the sexes. You know, if, if I'm going to go into a relationship, he or she is required to have this, and they have a list of things that they require their partner to have. And over the past, I'd say, how old is Kyra six, six years, we both have realized that if you really want to have a strong foundation in your relationship, it's not about the list you create, and if your partner checks the list, it's about what you can provide and be of service to that your partner can then reciprocate. So if you think about it. Wow. Checkmate. You see it? And that sound like a woman has been married for a long time, right? Is that what I'm saying? Oh, no, not yet. But you got it though. Because the thing is, is we put so much pressure on everyone else to be perfect and be exactly what they supposed to be to measure up to us. And we don't think about how we can bring things to the table. And it's counterintuitive to go into a relationship and say, what can I do to be of service to this person? Right? We're always thinking about what can this person do for me? But it wasn't until we started to be of service to each other that we got the best versions of each other for each other.

When I really think about even just, you can clap for my baby. Go ahead, clap for him.

And that was off the top too. I ain't even write that down. It was very

poetic. It was very poetic. No, I just think about DeVal and I's relationship. We were together for 13 years, together, eight married five before we even figured this service thing out. Right. Who listens to the podcast? You guys remember the episode, um, simp and submission. I was going to get into that, but I'm jumping the gun here a bit. But Deval and I got a lot of slack for that because people felt like, well, man, you know, he's a simp because he caters to his wife and oh, she submits it because she listens to her husband. But for us, we really feel like the service component. Is really what allowed us to be able to not only communicate better, but anticipate each other's needs. Right? So I think about this, you wake up in the morning, you next to your spouse, to your partner. And the first thing that entered my mind after we made this revelation was what can I do to make devalues day better? How can I alleviate some of the stress? What can I take off of his plate to just make it that much lighter for him today? Because we have so many moving parts. Right. And the minute I did that, I almost saw like the light in his eye, like, Oh, wow. Okay. Like you took the time to think about me today. Here's something I can use help with. And then by doing that, it then freed up time or space for him to say, you know what, that was thoughtful. What can I do now for you to make your day that much better?

I think that's key because what people miss is that it's reciprocated. It's not a one way street, right? Exactly. And what people hear. Service and submission, they hear you do, do, do for me. Cause I'm a man and that's the way it goes.

But, but I also think it's important for people to understand how we got to that point, right? Like it wasn't some magical moment where the Dean just woke up and said, let me start to serve my husband. That didn't happen. I remember it was, sorry guys. It doesn't happen like

that.

And this is, this is part of the brutal honesty, and I'm going to speak to the gentleman in the room, right? It is okay for us, as men, to say what we need, what we want, and what we desire, if you are willing to be of service to the person that you want to be with for the rest of your life. For example, I'll never forget, it was December 31st, 2020, we were getting ready to move into our home or getting, we had just finished closing on our home. We're getting ready to move into the home, but we were in her parents house. And I said, okay, let me ask you a question. When you wake up in the morning, what's the first thing that comes to your mind? And the first thing she said was the kids, um, got to get something to eat. I know I get my workout in, got to figure out what my boss. And she ran through a whole gamut of stuff. And I said, do you realize you haven't even named me yet? And she was like, wow. And I said, you know, when I first wake up in the morning, my first thing is let me make sure that my wife is okay. And then she said that never really clicked to me because you're always okay. And that's when I realized that I was doing a poor job of telling my wife that I'm not always okay. I was always trying to wear the cape. I was always trying to be the provider and the protective. And then once I let my guard down and became more vulnerable, that's when my wife started to realize that, wait a minute, if he's not always okay, I have to be the one to be there for him. So, and I tell you that story because I don't want people to think that it's a magical thing that happens. You have to be brutally honest about what you want and that goes for men and for women.

It's key that you didn't get defensive, or at least I'm not getting that she was defensive about it. Um,

no, she, no, and we had a lot of defensive conversations before that. Oh, there were a lot of

defensive moments because I was perfect. Don't get it twisted. Okay? I was perfect and you were the one with the problems. You know? Um, but I was, I, I really had to reflect because I also realized like certain roadblocks in our relationship over the course of the 20 years that I'm like, man, am I, am I listening or am I listening? There's a difference. And not just actively listening, but also taking the steps to make changes, right? So I think for a long time they were falling on deaf ears with me at least, because again, I look at Deval and he's always okay. I always got it. Just recently we had something happen last November where he was just completely burnt out, passed out on set. It was a major thing. And I'm in Jamaica, Dutty winding on the beach, drinking my rum punch at my friend's wedding. And he says, yeah, you know, my blood pressure's low. I'm dehydrated. I kind of passed out on the set, but I'm okay. I'm gonna go home, sleep, drink some water, get an IV. I'll be fine. And I'm like, all right, cool. You know, cause I thought he was going to be fine. Never knew the extent to which things were happening because he's always fine. So now I'm even more purposeful now about looking him in the eye and he looks at me crazy nowadays. Like I literally just said to him today, like I looked at him, I'm like, are you okay? And he's like, yeah, why are you asking me? I asked him several times because I need to know. I

need to know couple goals, relationship goals. I'm sure y'all hear it all the time. Do you cringe? Are you like, I mean, what was that? You cringe. Okay. I didn't know if it was like, I mean, of course. I mean, look at us. Couple goals. Why do you cringe?

Well, the funny thing is people always ask us, who's the couple that you admire? And I can never give them like a tie. I can't. They always say, who's the millennial couple? There's a Jay Z and Beyonce, Russell and, and, and what's the name? They just throw out so many names and not for nothing. I don't even judge those couples. My thing is they're doing a good job of being the best version of them. I could never be Jay Z and I don't ever want her to be Beyonce. So us trying to be the best version of Jay Z and Beyonce or Russell and what is, Ciara? Sorry, Ciara. Sorry, Ciara. Even Michelle and, and Barack. It's like, I don't have anyone I look up to. I look inward for my goals. I say, how can I be the best version? You know?

Is it because, cause I want you to elaborate. Is it because you personally do not? Or you don't think it's a good idea to admire, to, to make, put a couple on a pedestal, essentially.

I'm going to tell you why I don't. I grew up with both my parents and I thought that my parents were perfect. And then as you get older, your parents start to show you how unperfect they are. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And then you're like, wait a minute.

And a lot of things make sense too, especially as adults. I mean, you realize that your parents are human, right? So we do a lot of reflection in this book when we talk about our parents and the impact they've had on us because we realize in the first five years of our marriage, even prior to getting married, there was really no focus or emphasis put on. Showing us or teaching us or telling us how to be a spouse, you know, people get excited for the wedding and the engagement and all that. But then once that happens and the dust settles, it's like, okay, well, where's everybody at with the advice?

I'm gonna tell y'all exactly how it went down. Right.

Somebody felt that.

I, I proposed to Kadeem and all the women said, they rushed her off and

all

the men said, so I'm sitting there, right? And I'm just swinging my, like, get married. They were like, yeah, we see you ready. I'm like, I think so. And they go, all right. And that's it. That like, that's all, that's the only conversation any of the elders in my family had with marriage. So I was kind of like, Are you trying to warn me? Like,

I want to ask you about that because you've spoken about this before and I want you to, I'm going to paraphrase, but I want you to like further elaborate in case I'm getting it wrong, that you felt pressured into monogamy or marriage. Yes. Right. Okay. Um, and I, I think it was probably taken out of context and it was probably triggering, but that happens on social media. Yeah. Yeah. It

was a full podcast episode on monogamy. I think it was like a You know, 30 minute clip that went viral and

people were slamming both of us. Explain what you mean by that. And then I want to talk about how men specifically these days view marriage, uh, and how women view it. But that's for the second part of the question. I'm

glad you asked that question because sometimes when someone takes a 30 second clip And they say, Oh, he felt pressured. He didn't want to get married. Why get married? She pressured him. She was pushing him. That wasn't the case. During the time after I proposed, this was 2008. I was in my third year in the NFL. I just bought my second home. I was slated to make the roster 53 man roster. I was making 500, 000 a year. Life seemed perfect. Right. I proposed in 2008, mainly because Cadeen had said to me, like, listen, I don't want to be anyone's live in girlfriend. Like we're living together. I bought a home to show her that I was serious about our future, but I wasn't sure yet if I was ready to be married mainly because of the financial implications that go into planning a wedding and preparing a lifestyle. And she was just like, well, pretty much you got a shit to get off the pot because I'm not going to be here. She moved to Detroit. And this is, this is something that I didn't understand at that time. But I understand now you ask your 22 year old girlfriend to stop her life, move to Detroit and follow you and chase your dream. Why would she do that without any security that she's going to be okay? So I understand that now, but at 22, I didn't understand that. It just felt like pressure that summer. I get cut. Not only do I get cut, the economic crisis happens and I lose 33 percent of all my savings. And it's hemorrhaging because we're going through the biggest recession. I went from making 500, 000 a year. To nothing. I have two mortgages, an apartment, three cars, and everybody else's bills that I'm paying for. So I told Kadeen, I don't know if I'm ready to get married. And it wasn't about being with her. It was about handling the responsibilities of being a husband. Because in my mind, I wasn't even thinking about the wedding. I was thinking about the marriage. Once I asked this woman to be my wife, I am prepared to do everything she needs to have the life that she wants. But if I can't do that, am I really ready to be a husband? So in that moment, I felt pressure like, dang, I don't know what the next step is for me. She didn't necessarily put the pressure on me, but the pressure was from society telling me, as a man, this is what you have to do. And my young, immature ways thinking that I gotta be a man, I'm the only one that could provide, you gotta stay at home and make babies. So that's where the pressure came from.

Real quick, if he said he wasn't gonna get married, Anytime soon, what would you have done? I probably would have stayed. He didn't call you. See, see what I'm saying. I probably would have stayed. So yeah, that's the gag. I probably would have. In full transparency, here we are. We might need a one on one. The

ladies with you. But in that moment though. Again, societal pressure, right? Women tend to have this checklist by this age. I need to do this. By that age, I have to accomplish that. I should start having children by this age because I'm getting too old. In the biological clock, there were all these things that were flowing around in my head and at me I felt like darts. It's like you have to figure things out. I told my super strict West Indian parents at 22, 23, almost when I graduated from grad school. I'm moving to Detroit to be with my man. You know, my mother looked at me like she wants to put me over her knee and give me a good old fashioned spanking. Like what, how am I going to tell your grandmother that you are moving to some other state with a man? Can you believe that? That's everything that I was getting the pressure on that end. And then also you hear the narrative of don't be playing house with no man, with no ring. Don't be doing wife stuff on a girlfriend's bed. So again, it was me. Listening to the outside noise and not really valuing and having the conversation within to see where his mindset was. I also knew too that I had my career that I was trying to jumpstart. I was trying to get into news and broadcasting. That's not an easy industry, you know. Girl, you would have started out in Little Rock, Arkansas, child. Child! Exactly!

We had that discussion too.

And then I said to my mom, I'm like, okay, well, he's going to be in Detroit. Lansing is like a really small market. I can just go to Lansing and start there. Meanwhile, I had no, no, no intentions of doing that. I was going to be with him in Detroit because at that time also too, I know he needed the support. And I think early on in our relationship, we developed At the time, which might've been an unhealthy codependency because we were dating through college. We had each other. This was the first time when we didn't have each other. Then I'm hearing, Oh, Chad, are you going to the NFL? Um, them groupies you're not there to be with him. So what's he doing at night? You know? So again, it was the noise. It was the noise. And in my immature ways at the time, I couldn't even foresee anything else other than, um, The way to secure this was to be married. Gosh, I have so many

questions just from, from that statement. No, because it, it leads to, so, I mean, I'll get to that in a second. I do want to talk about when we, I feel like this day and age, when we talk about marriage, men often look at it like, I'm generalizing here or not. I know not all men I'm doing her a favor, right? Like I'm blessing you with the gift of marriage. You're going to tie me down, but really I'm kind of taking an L in a lot of areas here. Whereas the woman looks to marriage, like, you know, like to, to make it to marriage and to be a wife for a lot of women, whether it's for the right reasons or wrong ones is something that they, that they look to that they have as a goal. Why is it that men, some men look down on marriage? Do you think that that's what your boys were getting at? Like you going to do that?

Absolutely. Like I'm, I'm going to be a hundred percent honest if, if you don't have someone that you're equally yoked with, that's a friend that you can build with marriage is a terrible business proposition for whoever

is the breadwinner.

It's a terrible business proposition. For example, say she's big wig on a news network. Making seven figures, right? And she's just like, I got to check these boxes. I got to get married because I'm a woman and I got to do all this other stuff. So she meets a guy and the guy happens to be me and I have no ambition, no anything. I'm just there for the ride. We get married. She has two kids. Her career goes on hold a little while. She has two kids. We get into an argument, we get divorced. If we don't have a prenup, I'm entitled to 50 percent of everything. She's worked her whole heart for her whole life for plus she has to pay me for the kids, if I'm not a breadwinner. You see what I'm saying? So imagine being a man and how many men have gone through that because the court system is not designed to protect men. This is just a fact. So it's a terrible, no, it's, it's the truth. Oh,

now, you know, women are the most educated, um, you know, group and we do research. I'm just saying. Absolutely. So you think it works. It's really the breadwinner thing that ends up being a big factor.

I mean, it is definitely the breadwinner thing, but if we look at statistics, more men out earn women. So it is, uh, it's like we're at a disadvantage to just get married if you don't have a friend or someone who you're equally yoked with. And that's part of the problem. There is a process to finding out if this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with. And if we don't go through that process together, but while we're trying to, the pressure is You better marry me or I'm leaving. Most men are going to be like, fine, leave. Because the truth of the matter is the sexual revolution has changed. Men don't have to work as hard to get sex. There are plenty of women out here who are willing to have sex because women are doing what earning and making money. There are a lot more women now than before, who would just be like, I don't need a man for anything else other than to just drop some D off. So if those, this is the truth, there are women out there who are earners who'd be like, I don't need a man for anything else. So if you're a man and you don't have a woman you're evenly yoked with and she wants to put pressure on you to get married, it's like deuces.

I can't just go

do that.

I think some men too feel like the standard of the road, their sex life, right? You're being locked down to one person. I didn't think it was all financial. I think that's it is having to be committed to one person. But that's why I also feel like, and I expressed this in the book that you have to decide if marriage is for you. Marriage is not an aspiration for everyone. And that's okay. I think the rhetoric that we've been spewed for years is that that's the aspiration for men and women, women, particularly, because that was the only way a woman can get out of their parents house. Think about it back in the day, they couldn't get their own bank account. So let me aspire to marriage so I can start my own life. So in the book, I mentioned that And which I hope people find through reading the book, whether you're single, married in a committed relationship, I heard you entanglement, situationship, whatever the case may be, you have to decide if marriage is for you. You can't expect for someone to make you. A marriage person, for example, you meet someone, they knock you off your feet. They're beautiful. They're, you know, make money. They have all the thing. They checks the boxes, right? That puts the onus on them to be perfect and to be that person who you met in that moment. But can you withstand the test of time? What if things change? Circumstances change life, be life in. So you can't expect for someone to make you the marriage type. You have to want to marry. You have to want to be of service to someone and then find the person that you're equally yoked with. And I pray that people find that. Cause I found that right here.

I appreciate that. You did say something. I know you asked me a question about the sex thing. Cause we talk about sex a lot.

Doing it and doing it well. Is that the thing? Oh, yeah. That's the shaft in the book, baby. We don't talk about sex.

But there were two sides to it though, because you said you think most men automatically assume this is. This is the last person I'm going to have sex with for the rest of my life. Most of the men that I speak to who are afraid of getting married, that's not even their biggest issue. It is the money. Would y'all

agree? I mean, I don't know if you want to say it out loud, the men. I mean, most. Okay.

I'm going to be honest. I'm going to be honest. Men, a man's value is in how much he earns. Right? Let's be honest. If, when I told my guys that I met a girl, the first thing they said was, what she look like? All of the women, when you say, I met a guy, what does he do? Our value is in how much we earn. So when, when your value as a boy, you've been taught that how much money you make is going to determine how successful you are, you're not ready to just split that with anybody. Right? On top of that, when it comes to sex in marriage, marriage. All of the men that I spoke to who were older than me told me, Oh, you getting married? Huh. So last time you have sex regularly. That is, that is the narrative that is spewed to younger guys. Because if we're being honest, that is what happens most of the time when you have a child, right? Women's bodies change. And this is the mature devalue. All the time. Yes, all the time. Yes. This is the mature devalue talking.

Several times.

Yes.

Every time. I got those little big headed boys to prove it. Yeah.

Facts.

And stretch marks.

This is the mature devout speaking. So I'm not speaking as if I knew this the whole time and I was, no, I was fucked up. Okay. I got married at 26. All right. We had a baby right after that honeymoon in my mind. I was like, fine. She's going through stuff where she's pregnant. She crazy. I get it. The minute this baby come out, she's gonna go back to normal. I knew anything, I didn't do anything about postpartum depression. I didn't know anything about sleep deprivation after having a child. I knew, I had no clue.

So,

you're talking about another nine months to a year after you had the baby that if you were prepared by people to tell you to look out for this, you'd be like, you know what, let me be of service and have grace for my partner. But when you're thinking, you Then they told me I wasn't gonna have no more sex. Six weeks is up and she's not into it. It's happening now. That's like the trigger that happens to men. Seriously. And that's really what happened to us in our relationship. Because I was like, yo, my mom had a child and went right back to work. You don't even have to go back to work. Ooh, you said that?

No, I get it. You're not the only man who said that. No,

100 percent honest. I said that because I was like, I watched my mom do this. How come you can't do it? And it was me being 26 and 27 now and not understanding. And I, and this is part of the reason why we wrote the book. I wish someone would have said the vow, be on alert for this. The same way I do my young boys. Now, all of my friends, when their wives get pregnant, I take them out to lunch. All of my friends, I do this. I take them out to lunches. And first of all, lunch is on me. I say, you don't need money. What is, what is your cash app? I send them a love gift. And I tell them, I say, this is from Kadeen and I. We want you guys to have a nice smooth transition into adding a third member to your family. If you ever need anything financially, let us know. Part of the reason why is because we know the stresses that economics can cause on a relationship. And I know from a man to another man, it's a stressful time. And the first thing I tell him, I say, you know, your wife is how many weeks? Six, seven weeks pregnant. Okay. So, you're almost at the end. You got about two more years to go. And they're like, what?! I said, I'm telling you right now so that you don't look at your wife like she's crazy. And this is the analogy I always use. If you study or you, I read a lot of books. If you study about Navy SEALs and the Marine Corps, you know what? One of the most interest, the most intentional, but deliberately hard parts of the training is teaching a soldier how to survive through sleep deprivation. We're talking about some of the most Skilled disciplined people in the world have to be trained how to deal with sleep deprivation. But then we as a society expect a mom to have a baby, be sleep deprived, go to work and still be a wife. And God forbid she complained about it. Right. And this is the truth. And I'm, I'm not trying to stand up here like I know everything. I'm 38. I have four kids. I know now. You're one child? I was the lunatic that everybody hates. Why are we not having sex? Why are you holding out? The baby's two months already. What is going on? Why don't you just get back in the gym? Because you said you wanted to be on TV. I had no clue. And it's a grace from her and it's a me having grace for her for us to get through that and we want to tell those stories so people don't feel like they're the only ones going through it because we went through it and now we're here still.

That's why we share. Uh, that reminds me. Um, who do y'all go to. Who holds you accountable or who do you go to for advice? Who, I don't know, who's your sounding board in the relationship or is it just between you? Each other. It's between us.

We literally don't have a sounding board. And it's funny because when we started the podcast, we realized that even speaking aloud certain things. Was like therapy for us. I was like, man, I didn't even know you felt that way about this or even just having an overarching topic that we were talking about and seeing the different perspectives. We felt like we were learning so much about each other and even the book writing process. I want to give a special shout out to Leah Lakins down front here. Such a treat. She, she was our writer for the book. Yes. So everyone give a round of applause to Leah. Stand up Leah. And we went through. Yeah. So we had a checklist and criteria real quick before what our writer was going to be. And of course she had to be a sister or he had to be a brother. We wanted that first and foremost, but we went through a very extensive interview process and Leah just came out on top all the time. So we thank you so much for working with us and making this project super seamless and super easy. So we thank you again for that. But through the book writing process, even that. Was like a form of therapy for us because we were like, man, I didn't know that's how you felt in that moment. And we like to say that marriage, at least for us, we've discovered is literally one never ending conversation. And the minute the conversation pauses or doesn't happen. That's a problem.

What was the most difficult part of the book to write? Like the chapter or the, you know, few paragraphs that it, that was tough to revisit. Why y'all laughing? Don't be, don't

be looking at my facial expressions. I'm trying to work on my facial expressions. I'll, I'll wear my emotions. You're an actor. We know that we know

that your emotions are right there. Um, so for me, it was, Deciding to share about an unplanned pregnancy that we had in college. So, um, it was particularly difficult for me because it was something that I had buried for years and every time I come

on, baby, talk about it.

So it's something that I had buried for years. And it was mainly because of fear of, of a shame and ridicule. I'm feeling like I was being irresponsible in the moment. I'm feeling like my family and my parents would be like, I told you so. Um, so it was something that's Val and I, again, when you ask about outside influences or who was a sounding board or who was the support system, there was none. I felt, um, and I could be wrong. I could have maybe expressed this to family members and they might have leaned in to be of help and support. But in that moment, I just felt like. I only had him and I decided to share it for several reasons, but mainly because I wanted to be able to find a woman or find a girl because we do have a lot of younger people who follow us and our story and aspire to be married and be in a relationship. But for someone who may struggle with this particular situation, um, I just wanted them to find comfort in knowing that they weren't alone because that's how I felt in the moment that it's going to be okay. That there's a future after something like that. Um, but it also made me emotional in that moment because writing about it, the tears flowed sending voice notes to Leah, the tears flowed, um, doing the audio session with deval, because at this point. I have read his portion of the book, because what you'll see if you haven't read the book yet is that we tell different stories, but it's Kadeem and Davao's perspective, so we go back and forth. And that made sense because we wanted people to get a perspective of how we both felt in that moment with that particular story. And even hearing him speak these words aloud was almost like a confessional, I felt like. And it just made me feel so much more blessed in this moment, a, because I was able to heal from this, but also it made me think, wow, I have such an amazing partner who even at 19 years old or 20 years old when it happened. Was really putting me first, like he really thought about and he had compassion for my situation, even though he wasn't the one necessarily dealing with it in that moment. But he was the one that just really, really was thinking about how, how are we going to get through this? And people ask, why is the title We Over Me? There's so many moments in our relationship when we may have hit a rough patch or we might have stumbled or we might have made a choice that wasn't the best choice, but it was never just, just me. And I love him for that. And I really just hope that my story is something that people can relate to. Um, of course I fear that sharing it would bring some sort of fear or judgment or people would no longer support me or us.

But

I felt like if people genuinely understood us in that light and could have empathy for us, then maybe. Whoever decided to stay and support, we're really genuinely meant to be here, and I appreciate that.

Thank you for sharing that. Uh, Deval, I see you getting emotional. Wise up. We love you! Love

y'all back. Not the boogers. Oh my God.

Guys.

I'm going to put it on eBay like Lizzo didn't have panties. Y'all heard about that? Girl! I said, did you dry clean them first? My eBay was like, girl, this is eBay. We don't, we

don't do that here. So

that was my difficult part in the book. And it took a while for me to decide if that was something that I wanted to share. But I just felt like with the climate that we're in, with, uh, women being under attack, black women being under attack, um, um. You know, it was just necessary. The women's bodies be under attack. I felt like it was just necessary to share that. Um, so I hope that you guys, when you read that portion of it, um, I guess not that you enjoy it, but you can understand where we were at that time. Um, you know,

yeah, I would have to agree. First of all, I love you. I love you. Um,

I didn't mean to make you cry too.

Uh, shit. I can't, um,

I'm sorry. It wasn't supposed to be that kind of night. It was supposed to be real light.

I want, I want to say that when people ask me all the time, like, how could you, how can, how can we get what you and Kadeem have? Right. I never find the words. Because I don't like this is ordained. I don't I never thought I was going to love Like I I am probably like the most super macho man that I try to be from Brooklyn, but when it comes to her There's no, like, that's all out the window. The whole vibrato is all out the window. Like, this is my homie, my dog. Like I would kill for her. I would die for her. Like, and

don't die for me. Cause we dying together. All right. It's giving notebook, it's giving notebook vibes here.

Girl, first of all, she made me watch the notebook in college. I cried like a baby. I was like, they both died together holding hands. Oh my God. Watch it, right? I gotta go to practice. But um, I'll tell you one thing. I, I, I realized how powerful my wife is, right? Because I grew up a very strict Southern Baptist. And when you go through situations like that, you always feel like you're failing everybody. I failed everybody. I can't tell nobody. I can't do this. Now. I told my pops because my pops is my dog. Like, of course I had to, you know, go through the process with her. And he was just like, you better make sure that Kadeen is okay. I didn't tell any of the women in my family because I was just like, I don't want to be judged. But then when the book was coming out, I said, yo, I got to speak truthfully to my family. I don't want them to find out when reading. And I was speaking to members of my family. I don't want to say who, cause I don't want to share their business. And I told them what happened and they put their hands on me and said, baby, I've been there. And for the first time as a grown man, I looked at the women who I never wanted to fail, never wanted to disappoint and be like, May you human and you see me, you know what I'm saying? Like you see me. So I just wanted to say like you are so powerful for choosing to share that story because now there's so many women that are going to be seen and they're going to feel like, wow, like I'm not alone. I'm not a monster. And I just want to give you your flowers now

because

as difficult as it was for me to be there. Cause we always say our pregnancy, we don't ever say her pregnancies, our pregnancy, as difficult. It was for me. To read and write. I know it had to be 10 times as hard for you, but

I don't want to take up y'all. I know y'all had a ton of questions. Thank you so much for sharing that by the way, guys. I, I know you've heard from folks I'm sure who can relate to that, but there are so many others who don't feel comfortable yet. Right. Speaking up publicly who I'm sure even in this room are quietly nodding their head and feeling seen. So there's power in sharing your, your stories with that. I don't want to lose track of time here because I know y'all got to get to bed. No, I'm good. See, now I'm staying on the news in the morning. Tomorrow I'm stumbling reading. Y'all know why. Um, so let's open it up to questions, but we do have some, some rules that we want to, um, set for the Q and a

let's give it up for Kadeena DeVille again, really quickly with the questions. Like I said, Christine is on this side. Raise your hand again. And I'm Ramonda. I'll be on this side. So if you have a question, please come down to any, um, microphone on this side. We'll probably have time for maybe two and two on each side. We'll see. We'll play it by ear. Um, but please questions, not comments, not you trying to be an extra on Tyler Perry's movie, not trying to work on their social media, be with, you know, just a question about the book or about marriage, please just in honor of time. So come on down on either side and we'll open up for questions. And we'll alternate. I'll go first and then we'll pass the second one to Christine. All right. Tell us your name and your question.

Hello, my name is Brooke and my question is you mentioned that you were raised like Baptist. So what role does faith play in your counter intuitive approach to your marriage and relationship?

Oh, that actually, that's a great question, Brooke. Um, Kadeem grew up Seventh day Adventist and I grew up Baptist, Southern Baptist. So for us, faith is important because we both feel like God is going to reveal himself to you in his own way. And when we talk about the counterintuitive approach, so many people are always looking outward for answers about their relationship, right? We look inward and we look to God, right? Um, we believe in a more traditional, traditional marriage where, I'm more of a servant leader and they say she's submissive, but she follows me because I follow God. And if God tells me, but here's, here's, here's the truth though. If God tells me that I have to follow my wife,

that's all right too.

That's part of it. You know what I'm saying? So faith, faith is huge in our relationship. We will be passing the collection plate for the building renovation fund.

Put your gloves on girl. Put your gloves on. for your question, Brooke. Yes.

My name is Shia. I love you guys. Um, my question is, what do you do when one of you guys are not as motivated as the other and y'all both are collectively working on the goal and you know, maybe the thing could be doing more devout could be doing more. What do you do instead of like getting frustrated, like, why are you not doing it? What do you do? How do you do that in a healthy manner? Child, we don't sometimes. She about to kill me right now. Oh

God. Listen sis, this guy here has no off button. Okay. No off button. That's see, look, she's pointing at her man too. No off button. And I respect it though, because why? It's easy. It's easy to be a follower because I'm like, man, my man's going to get it done, right? His work ethic is unlike anyone I've ever seen in life. And he doesn't, and it's particularly difficult because we work together on so many things. So I'm like, baby, sometimes I just want my man, like, I just want my boyfriend. I don't want to vow the business partner. I don't want to vow the co host. I don't want to vow the author. I want my man. So what it requires for us to do is really find ways. And I'm normally deliberate about saying, we're going to turn the phone off. You're going to have to put the phone down. I tend to be the one that's not as motivated half the time because I need my break. Like I'm no longer on this team. No sleep waves. I need my sleep. I need my sleep. I need my rest. And I'm going to take that. So in order to motivate each other. I usually feel like I don't want to let him down, so sometimes I'll try to push the envelope and work overdrive, but it never works out well for me. So, we've learned that our processes are different, and because our processes are different, we have to respect each other's process. So, even in this book writing here, Leo's probably like, we can eat it. I'm changing diapers and breastfeeding. I'm doing a ton of things at the same time, because usually I try to what alleviate things off of deval's plate. So he can be his best self. Right. And in doing that though, things falter and I look like the weakest link. And sometimes we have moments like that, but deval has learned to give me a lot of grace in the moment. And he does learn how to turn things off and he's learned better ways to motivate me other than. Yelling or putting me down. So I don't feel inadequate. Yeah, we've been

there. Yeah. Are you the one who works?

I'm the motivator. I don't have no stop button. So I could tell

by the way you asked the question. It was when you grabbed the mic and you were just like, so, so I just want to know when your partner is just going to get

his black ass up. Come here. I could tell. I could tell when you

started. I was sweating looking. I started sweating. Sweating looking at you. 'cause I'm like, she's the one,

she's the one, have these goals. And if he's not on it as me, I'm like, whatcha doing? You got a, you said we getting old? I said, no. Oh, we need a home. Oh, we need a home. You got a I need balance, baby. So this

is, this is what I'll say, right? Do you have faith in your own discernment to pick a partner that's going to be there for you when you need you the most? Okay. So if, if you have the faith in your own discernment, you have to learn to be like, my partner has his own process, right? This is mature devout. Now I'll tell you a story about why it was. I wasn't a while back, but I've learned to say, you know what, you don't want to do the chapters that Leah asked us to do six months ago. You can do that on your own time. I'm going to do extra chapters so that when, so that's what it is. If you know it won't kill you to do more, do more. Marriage is not going to be 50 50. Sometimes it's going to be 90

10.

It's just going to be like because I'll tell you what, when she was pregnant. It was 95 percent her carrying them babies. That was

100 percent me carrying them babies. What you mean?

I held the hand. I had my 5%. But you know what I'm saying? When the table will turn at some point, you're going to have to understand when he's pushing you for certain reasons. And the reason why I need you to understand how hard that is for him is because I used to I was bad with this because I grew up with my parents were the type of parents who were just like everything you do is not good enough. I could get 95 on a test. It's like, what are the five points? You know what I'm saying? I got kicked off the basketball team by my mom because My GPA dropped below 90. I had a teacher who gave me a 75 For missing homework that I did, he misplaced Mr. Fass, his stupid ass. I'll never forget, 7th grade, Andrews Huddy Junior High School, I missed 7th grade basketball. Mr. Fass gave me a 75 because he misplaced my homework. My mother said, I don't care if it was misplaced. place. You should have gave that man his stuff in his hand so you can have your 90 average and you not playing basketball. That was my mentality. But that's also what made me great. I had coaches who motivated, called me every curse word in the book and it made me great. So in my mind, when you communicate to people the way you like being communicated to, you think it's going to make them great. It didn't work. I never, I'll never forget. This is a chapter in a book you'll hear, you'll read about, but Kadeem came to the gym. She said she wanted to be in the best shape of her life going into 2016, right? She had just come off turning 30 in 2015. She's like, baby, I'm going to best shape of my life. We decided that we were going to have another child. So I said, for your own health, because we almost lost Kadeem after having Jackson, you have to be in the best shape of your life so we can get through this pregnancy We were in there first part of the year. She's not working out. Talking to people just procrastinate doing, you know,

she was your business. I was schmoozing I was it was about the retention

for me, right customer satisfaction talking to people. She did three hours talking to people I'm ready to go now. It's nine o'clock. She goes. Oh, you ready to leave? I was just about to start working out So this is where the and this i'ma be very honest the old messed up deval was You full of shit, bro. That's what I said. Yeah, you full of shit, bro. Shit, what you mean? I said you was here for three hours bullshitting. And I'm up here working. I worked 18 hours a day. This was during a time where I felt like I was in my right to speak like this. I had told her she didn't have to work full time. She could work when she wanted to work. I was working 18 hours a day, seven days a week. I was exhausted. I said, you full of shit. You said you was going to come in here at seven o'clock. This is now. Passed 10 o'clock and you still ain't work out. I think we should get a divorce, right? And she's just like, what you mean you should get a divorce? I said, we can't agree on anything. We argue about finances. We argue about food. We argue about sex and you fucking lazy. This is what I said. I'm not gonna lie to you. You know what she said to me? I'm not fucking lazy, DeVal. It gets better. I'm fucking pregnant. I go, well, why don't you leave

with that? Not quite the way I expected to announce this pregnancy for our second son.

But in that moment I realized, like, shit.

Surprise.

I wasn't present enough to realize that my wife was actually going through something because I was so focused on accomplishing the goals that I thought we should be accomplishing. Ebbs and flows. And it was messed up. I'm not gonna lie, it would have felt real

good saying that cause like to, it sure did. It was like,

drive, smite, hole at, not what you got to say.

And in all honesty, that moment is what changed our marriage. Because after that is when I decided, you know what, from no longer will I try to be your coach and your motivator. I'm going to be your partner. I'm going to be here for what you need and I'm going to be present and whatever you need, I got you. Once I did that, I noticed that she changed and she had me and I said, wait a minute, why don't I do this when she's not pregnant? And then Cairo came. And then shortly after that, Kaz came, right?

Shortly after that, for real, six months later, to be exact, because he was just delivering on everything. I was like, well, I guess I'm a delivery again.

She was delivering at that point. You know what I'm saying? So, um, giving her grace and allowing your partner to develop their own process is how you get through those times.

But don't forget to just be friends too in the process. Yes. Yes. No, you're welcome. Next question over here. Sorry, that was a long one. That's all right.

In those moments of arguing and like you're sitting there. You want to say something, but you holding it back, you know, you holding it back. And so she's sitting there waiting for, yeah, that's my wife up there. That's my wife up there. You see him look back

cause he nervous. He's like, let me make sure she ain't going to slap me upside my head.

And she's sittin there waitin on a answer. And everything that you wanna say, you know it's gonna go up. What is your strategy in that moment?

De'Ville gonna go up.

Quick.

That is not true. That is not true. If I want to have sex later,

That's in the dining factory. We not going

out. If I'm in a place where we already had sex in the day, let me tell you how I feel about this, Kadid. No, in all honesty, we have developed a new rule in our house. We deal with stuff openly, honestly, and in real time. There's no more holding it back. Let me know. And then we tell each other, Hey, and we, we had a, we was having a little disagreement yesterday in the car. She was all about our friends that work with us. And there's the car. And I said, listen, baby. Life is too short. I don't want to argue with you. We could get into an accident right now on this highway and never see us, ourselves, or these kids again. Tell me what's the matter so we can get over it. Period. Like, I don't care what it is. Tell me what it is. We discussed it. And before you know it, we, this is us in the car after that.

Look at Janelle. Janelle's like.

But, but 20s, Kadeen and Davao would have been like this.

We wouldn't have made it here today. We wouldn't. Jenelle would be here by herself.

Denora would've been like, Denora would've been like, Guys, you have to come out. These people paid for y'all to do this. Khadim would've been like,

I ain't going out there to talk about black love. Fuck black love. That's bad. That's bad. Y'all think, y'all think That actually, that actually really happened, y'all. Oh my God. So here we are, six months after we have Kyro. Kyro is six months old, right? Black Love. Who watched the Black Love series? Shout out to Tommy and Cody Own. So we were about to tape Black Love. Um, at this point, don't know I'm pregnant with Cass. I'm already feeling some kind of way and I don't know what it is exactly, but I'm pumping before she comes in. I'm trying to get dressed. The deval's like, they're downstairs. You don't got no pants on. Put your pants on.

I'm like, yo, you gotta hurry up. Like, they about to come upstairs. And she's like, you're not going to be rushing me. You're not going to be rushing me. I'm like, yo, what's with the hostility? Like, I just, I'm just trying to tell you, people are coming in the house and this and that. She's like, you know what? I'm trying to I never wanted to do this shit anyway. Facts. So, y'all think my mouth is crazy, right? She, Jamaican and Vincentian from Brooklyn. Her mouth is crazy. Right? So she's like, I'm not doing this shit no more. I said, Kadeem, these people flew all the way from LA to come interview us. Her words verbatim is like, I don't care about black love, fuck black love. I'm like, Kadeem, you can, so now we in, we, I got her pants, right? I'm trying to pull her pants up.

And then I'm post baby, six months, so nothing fits. Nothing looks good. I'm supposed to be on camera. My hair ain't right. But this is the best

part though, right? We are guys on the door, but right now this is us. So that's also have your arguments, but have the unified front so other people don't be in your arguments and in your business, speak about it in real time and keep it there. Keep it there. But don't let other people know. That's how we get through it.

Sounds like she's been trying to tell you this for a while, brother. Yeah. All right. Maybe you don't listen,

bro. Once you have it, it feels so much better. Yeah. You know, but, but also have it gently don't, don't have it. Like how I know men sometimes want to have it. Because I'm that guy, learn to have it gently and use gentle words. Nice, trust me. There you go. Use gentle. Look, there you go, look. Look, there you go. She's like, come on back. She got the hands ready for you, my brother.

Hi. Alright, we're good. I'm Jontay, and my question, that actually led me into my question, is how do you all deal with, um, having those tough conversations in front of your kids? So you were just talking about, you know, how you grew up and you didn't see your parents and stuff, but like, how do y'all have disagreements and stuff with, in front of your kids without scaring them?

We took a while to get there. We were just talking about how we feel like we broke Jackson, our oldest, we probably broke him so many times within our relationship because we were growing together. We were just talking about it on the car ride and like our oldest. Or typically the oldest goes through growing with you, you know, as a person. So not only is it my growing as an individual, I'm trying to grow within this marriage and then trying to also raise a child in the process. And Jackson definitely early on her disagreements between Deval and I, and just would be like, Are you still mad at daddy? Are you still mad at mommy? And then he would internalize it too. And that's when we realized it was a problem because we had, uh, we were on, we had,

we spoke, we did talk about this on

the radio show, the radio

show.

Yeah. So we were on the Frankski show in Georgia, um, uh, last week I think it was. And we talked about the story with a stroller, right? Who heard the stroller story before? I don't know if anyone

knows the stroller story. Long story short, a lot of people have questions. We argued about a stroller. We were screaming at each other, cursing at each other, because we were young, 20 years old. And I said, you know what, Jackson's right there getting ready for school. And I'm like, you know, I'm not going to school. I'm not taking him to school. We have to discuss this before I leave. Jackson goes, so I can't go to school because y'all having an argument? Literally said that. He was like

four or five. Not the kid being the mature one. Yes.

Literally.

I like school though.

So I say, come on. Let's go to school. I take him to school. We typically listen to the Breakfast Club every morning. This morning, I was just over it. So I turned the radio off. We have our handshake. We do. I get to school and I drop him off and he jumps out of the car. He's like, Daddy, our handshake. I said, Jackson, go to school. You're already late. Right? So now I've projected everything we've gone through on him. So he goes in school and we go back home. We reconcile, we find, you know, had our little canoe session. We good now. Right? So now I'm skipping to go get my son. Cause I'm happy every day after school. Third grade, I'll never forget, Jackson would open that door, see me, and full speed sprint and jump in my arms. This day, all the kids come out, Jackson is last. And he walks, like he just walks. And I'm like, yo, buddy, what's the matter? He goes, are you still mad at me? And I was like

Heartbroken. Deval,

you like the worst person in the world right now, bro.

And I let him know, too. I was like, you really are. Because I'm like

She did, she did do that. She ain't want to take no blame, no accountability. I had to really I sent my son to school and he probably wasn't able to focus on being the best version of his self because he was concerned that his dad is mad at him when he did nothing wrong. That made us realize that we can't do that.

Like

we cannot do that no matter what we're going through, we have to find a gentle place to speak to our kids, even when we're in our workspace. So we don't have drag, we don't argue like that anymore. We have conversations. If I have an issue, we talk about it. We don't scream at each other. We don't degrade or curse at each other. We have grown people conversations and we have them in front of our children. And then they'll sit there and they'll be like, what y'all talking about? And we had a disagreement and this and this and that. And I want them to see how you're supposed to speak to a woman. Yes. So that when they have wives and girlfriends, they can say, well, my dad and my mom used to speak like this. So I'm not going to scream and argue with you. And

one thing big with them with us is that we teach them how to control their emotions and how to express how they feel and how to communicate. So we have to be the example of that if we're requiring that from them.

Yeah. Next question right here. Tell us your name.

Hello, my name's Brittany. Nice to meet you guys. What's up? Meet Brittany. I love you guys. Big thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. So I have a two part question for you both to kind of answer along the same lines. I've been single dating, um, and I wanted to know basically, so Deval, your question is, you all mentioned earlier in the conversation in regards to being unequally yoked and the imbalance. I get the unequally yoked from a spiritual perspective and how that can flow into a relationship as well as the imbalance. But in a relationship, because you're two totally different people, backgrounds, et cetera, et cetera, there's always going to be an imbalance somewhere as a man being comfortable with pursuing that and having the marriage, I guess, if you will, of, uh, proposing to someone and knowing that what is it that you're looking for? Is it more so the foundational purposes, the ambition drive, that sort of thing that would make a man comfortable, um, with that, knowing that eventually you can get there because of course you build. And then Kadeen, um, you're beautiful. Love you. Um, You mentioned also in the sense of, but you mentioned in the sense of being girlfriend doing wifely duties, um, that is something that's kind of like a stigma in today's society. Um, but I have the opinion of your dating and what you're doing as your dating is going to transfer into marriage. So where do you find the fine line between girlfriend duties? And actually getting the ring and then upping it, upping the auntie, if you will, or is it what I'm doing as a girlfriend, you're going to get as a wife.

You want to answer first or?

Um, yeah, it's, it's funny. This is another conversation we talked about the team that I work with is predominantly women and we had this conversation. What I try to tell people who are dating is be exactly who you want to be for the rest of your life. And if you are that person, the person who wants that person will adore you for it. If you go up there with a representative. And the person falls in love with the representative and then you change, that's on you. Don't hold back who you are because you're afraid someone may take who you are. You'll never find love that way. And yes, being vulnerable is scary. But let's be honest, being the representative is even scarier. Because now you're meeting someone who, if you're a representative and they're a representative, you don't know who they are. And you're trying to build a life with someone who you don't know while being someone who you really aren't.

Be

who you are and let the person love you the way

you

Good. So to answer your question about the wifely duties and girlfriend, I always existed in a space well early on, because again, I didn't date several different men prior to the vow. Maybe he had two little high school things running around with. But, um, for me, I always felt like I existed in a space of two things. One, I saw how my mother, my grandmother, the women around me took care of. Their spouse. So for me, it was a lead by example kind of a thing. So I saw my grandmother worked the night shift as a CNA at the hospital, come home, cook a meal for my grandfather, make sure that it was on the stove and his portion was set aside and his plate was made. He would come in from the door. She'd be asleep, taking a nap, but he came in from work. She'd get up. Even if she was dog tired, she would set his plate, warm his food up, sit with him while he ate dinner to have chit chat. And then, you know, she'd go on her merry way back to sleep so she can get up to go to work. I saw that. So I felt like that was just natural, right? That catering to factor. I just so happened to meet somebody who I felt like was deserving of that as well, too, right? Because it was reciprocal. I also saw how he was a gentleman. I saw how he was taking care of me. I saw how he was making an To be the person that I wanted to cater to. And I just naturally existed in a space of moving from my heart and emotion. So it was easy for me to kind of lean into that because I felt like he was deserving of that. So I feel like women today, if you're dating, be who you are. Again, that ties into the same, you know, answer that devout gave you and whoever is going to fall in love with you, whoever's going to continue to court, you will love you for that reason. Um, and if you feel like someone is not appreciating that, you know, Then you may want to hold back or that may just not be the person for you.

I want to make sure she answers your, your question. Are you, are you saying doing that as a girlfriend? Yes. Is that in your mind? Okay. I did that as a girlfriend. And so I think some people wonder if I do this as a girlfriend, what incentive does he have to marry me? If I'm not saving anything for marriage. So you see, I

gave

him a ultimatum,

like, listen, this ain't going to happen forever.

She, she definitely gave me an ultimatum, but it's also your own discernment, right? When people show you who they are, believe them the first time.

Yeah.

Right. Don't go into yourself and say, I'm going to make this man be who I want him to be. That's on you. That's not on him. If you're, if you're showing him wifely qualities, he's not respecting it. He doesn't appreciate it. It is okay for you to say, listen, man. This does not work for me and I think it'll be better if the two of us go our separate ways rather than saying I'm going to spend the next five years training him to be the husband I want him to be. Exactly. And

you have to be intentional, sorry.

No, no, you have to be intentional because most of the time, and this isn't a woman thing because I have homies the same thing, but I did all this stuff for this girl and she just went away and I said, bro, She's been showing you since y'all were dating that she never wanted to be a wife. You kept spending money, you kept taking her on trips, you kept buying her things. Then she found somebody else with more money. And they did that and she left you. That's not on her, that's on you, bro. We as people have to start realizing that people have the right to do what they want to do in their lives. And when they show you what they want to do, believe them. Don't try to change them.

Yep, you have to be upfront. Like, are you going to say to this person, Hey, I aspire to be married. So if we're entering into this courtship and I want to be girlfriend caring to you and doing all of this stuff, is it with the intention of us one day getting married? When I said earlier, do you aspire to marriage or do you not? That's an important conversation I think that should be had early on.

Now, say that again because real talk, Kay did everything. When I read all of these blogs about what women aren't supposed to do, Kay literally did all of the wrong things. Kay told me she loved me in two weeks. I didn't know what to say. I said, thank you. I was trying to be polite. I wasn't trying to be rude. Kay acted like my wife from the very beginning. Kay gave me an ultimatum. Kay told me what her timeline was. And I started, I was deliberate. She was deliberate about what she wanted and it was up to me to make the choice. So it's the whole idea of playing a game to get what you want to me doesn't work

real quick though. Cause some, some guys have said, where's the chase? You're giving it all to me and there's no mystery. I know I have you. I want the chase. Do you agree that men want that and that takes that away?

I agree. I will say this. A man who's looking to just chase women are going to chase women. A man who is looking to be a husband is going to find a wife. You know, I honestly, no, I honestly feel this. You as women, and I hate trying to mansplain, but I will say this. I watch a lot of my young female friends and my co stars that I work with. They say, DeVal, I'm looking for this guy and he got to have this and he doesn't. I said, you're chasing a guy who's chasing women. Why are you chasing a guy who's chasing a woman? Why don't you? Chase a guy who's chasing a purpose, part of that purpose. If it's being a husband, he may stop and say, wait, this is my wife. But if he's chasing women, he's always going to chase women. It don't matter if you play a game, it don't matter. If you show him up front that you want to be a wife, he's just going to chase women. And he has, that's his prerogative. Because the city girls been up the last four years. If I, you know what I'm saying? Cause there's women out there who are chasing men. And I tell my boys the same thing, stop being upset at her because she's going for what she wants in her life. Let them let that group of people do what that group of people want to do. Find your group.

Okay. In the essence, uh, interest of time, we're going to do one more question from that end, and we'll take a couple of minutes to transition and we'll do Q up Q and a, we'll do photos. We're going to do row by row under my direction, but we'll make sure everybody gets a chance, but last question, right

into listening to letters. I'm sorry, we didn't get to y'all. We'll talk about on the podcast.

Hi, I'm Keon and what's up Keon? What's going on, bruh? Newly married and congratulations

for the newlyweds how long now?

Shout out to my wife. Best thing that ever happened to me.

I've been married now a couple months,

five months,

five months. What's up?

In that it's been a beautiful journey. So much joy. but it's been like a constant conversation with my friends, particularly my guy friends around marriage seems cool, but it's like, I want to get myself together first. So

I want

to make sure everything's in order. And it seems like that's like a cop out in a sense, but also, you know, I want to respect them. How do I encourage them? Because Don't, don't,

don't, don't, don't encourage anybody to get married. You want to know why? If they get married off their encouragement and it gets messed up, they're going to be like, you fucked me up. Let them find out on their own time. You lied. But I know why you asked the question. You asked the question because your wife doesn't want you to hang out with your friends if they're all single. Right?

Is that the truth?

Nah, she cool.

She said no. Even,

even to what you just alluded to in regards to like men who are chasing to be a husband. Yeah. But how do we encourage that more? Because there's beauty in black love, there's beauty in unity, even the essence of what y'all talk about. It's like we owe me the journey. I think sometimes they try to like alleviate the journey or try to like run away from the journey because they want to make sure everything's together. Like what you're supposed to do.

I would say this, be an example. You don't have to say anything. Watch them see how you treat your wife. So many of my single boys come over, right? And this is the truth. Cadeen will be in her bathing, her freaking, what is it you wear? The robe. Hair be crazy. I'm out with Jackson at the basketball practice, right? I'll come in the house. She'll go in the back, put on her shorts, the shorts she know I like. She'll make sure I'm eating. She'll, you know, and they'll be like, yo, your wife really be taking care of you. And I'm like, yeah, yeah. And then they'll see how I spoil her, her ways and stuff. And they're like, yo, this is actually pretty cool, bro. And I don't have to say, I don't have to beat it over their heads, like marriage, marriage, marriage. Just come over, come over and watch me with my kids. Oh,

that's why you have been coming over

all the time?

Such and such is coming over for dinner. Make some dinner, make some dinner. I

do, I do do that. Yeah. In part because I hear so many of my friends say there ain't no good women out there or women don't know how to act and then I just, rather than trying to talk them through it, I just say, well, just come over, just come over. And then they watch Kadena and they're just like, how'd you get her to do that? And I'm like, I don't get her to do anything I do for her and she reciprocates. So as long as you guys don't mind being the example, don't talk to them. Cause the more you talk to them, you know what they're going to do. Wow. No, just let them watch, bro. And if y'all have a good loving marriage, that's all the example they'll need.

I will say, if you're saying marriage is great, this is amazing. I would start like, is it really? Are you trying to get me into something? There's so much joy. Right, right, right. Wiping away with a tear. This is just amazing. I think they're, they're watching you. Their friends are watching you and they can, like them, if you radiate joy and happiness, they see it.

But you also said they're also getting themselves together too, and that's a big portion of it too. I think a lot of men, and you've had that experience with even the young men that you mentor and stuff, you know, they are like, man, I really want to be able to date this girl, but I'm trying to get myself in order. Right. I'm trying to get my finances in order. I'm trying to get my career established. So they may be going through their own process and their own journeys. Show them how it goes, you know, give them some time.

Thank you.

Yes, sir. Thank you. All right.

All right. Please help me give it up for Kadeem and Davao. Thank you so

much. Always so much love in DC. Who had a book? Let me see y'all books.

Yes.

Yes, sir. Thank you all so, so much. We heard we're on track and we're going to prey on this and manifest it to be a New York Times bestseller.

Yes.

Amen. Amen. Thank you for getting those hard copies. We appreciate you. There's always love in DC. Who's come to a live podcast show? I love it. I love it. We love, we're definitely

coming back. We're definitely coming back. He said, when she's going to be waiting outside, you said you was coming back. I need dates.

Let's give it up for them one more time and give it up for Jeanette y'all, amazing moderator. Discover

a world

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