In this episode of MahoganyBooks Front Row: The Podcast, authors Khadeen and Devale Ellis delve into their book, We Over Me, to discuss the intricacies of relationships and marriage, sharing their journey from dating to married life. The couple discusses key elements of a healthy relationship, such as faith, financial management, and effective communication. They offer insights into the importance of authenticity in relationships, the distinction between men seeking partners versus wives, and the impact of leading by example. Personal anecdotes and experiences underscore the significance of vulnerability and honesty, providing valuable advice for those in relationships or aspiring to understand the dynamics of a successful marriage. The episode concludes with an inspirational segment on the influence of African American literature.
Discover a world of Black Literature
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00:00:00
Derrick Young: Welcome to the Mahogany
Books Podcast Network, your gateway to
00:00:04
the world of African American literature.
00:00:06
We're proud to present a
collection of podcasts dedicated
00:00:08
to exploring the depth and richness
of African American literature.
00:00:11
Immerse yourself in podcasts like Black
Books Matter, the podcast, where we learn
00:00:15
about the books and major life moments
that influenced today's top writers.
00:00:19
Or tune Baller's Read, where brothers Jan
and Miles invite amazing people to talk
00:00:23
about the meaningful books in their lives.
00:00:25
So whether you're a literature enthusiast,
an advocate for social justice, or
00:00:29
simply curious about the world, About
the untold stories that shape our world.
00:00:32
Subscribe to the mahogany books
podcast network on your favorite
00:00:35
platform and let African American
literature ignite your passion.
00:00:40
Ramunda Young: Let's
get this party started.
00:00:41
Y'all ready?
00:00:42
Right.
00:00:46
So I have the honor of introducing
our amazing moderator, Ms.
00:00:50
Jeanette Reyes.
00:00:51
Jeanette
00:01:03
Reyes is a seasoned reporter.
00:01:05
An influencer.
00:01:06
In 2020, she was hired by Fox 5
in Washington, right here in D.
00:01:10
C.
00:01:11
as the morning news anchor role
that shows off her multiple skills.
00:01:14
From her values as a journalist to the
fact that she speaks multiple linguas.
00:01:18
Multiple?
00:01:19
Just two.
00:01:20
Okay.
00:01:21
Two.
00:01:21
Bye.
00:01:22
Dos.
00:01:22
Okay.
00:01:23
But please help me welcome
Jeanette to the stage.
00:01:25
Thank you for moderating tonight.
00:01:31
Jeannette Reyes: Who watches Fox 5?
00:01:34
Who watches starting
at six in the morning?
00:01:38
Who's supposed to be in bed?
00:01:40
Okay.
00:01:41
I'm supposed to be in bed, but
this was well worth it to come
00:01:43
out and be with y'all tonight.
00:01:45
Thank you for coming out.
00:01:46
I really appreciate this.
00:01:47
Um, this for me is off the record.
00:01:49
We don't have these conversations at
work, at least during the commercials.
00:01:51
We might, uh, but we're,
we're going to get real.
00:01:54
We're going to get deep tonight.
00:01:54
If you guys know, you know, that that's.
00:01:57
That's their motto.
00:01:58
Right?
00:01:58
They, they get real.
00:01:59
It's unfiltered.
00:02:00
I do want to know though, get a
bit of a, of the lay of the land
00:02:03
here who's single show hands
00:02:07
who is in a relationship,
00:02:12
situation ship, entanglement,
00:02:18
who does not know what
the heck they're in.
00:02:21
Okay.
00:02:22
I listen.
00:02:23
It happens.
00:02:23
It's okay.
00:02:24
It's okay.
00:02:25
All right.
00:02:25
Well, hopefully you all feel inspired.
00:02:28
You get some clarity tonight and, um,
You might walk out of here and feel like
00:02:33
I'm ready to make a decision, right?
00:02:35
Personally in my life.
00:02:37
All right.
00:02:37
So, uh, let's get to it here.
00:02:39
Uh, I want to introduce you to
the stars of the night here.
00:02:43
Deval is a former NFL player,
now an actor and singer.
00:02:46
Star on Tyler Perry's sisters and his
very own spinoff, uh, shows a team on BT.
00:02:52
Cadeen is a former entertainment
reporter, content creator,
00:02:55
actress, and businesswoman.
00:02:57
They are the parents of four beautiful
boys and together they are the co
00:03:01
creator of the Ellis's on YouTube
and their Webby award winning
00:03:05
podcast, Dead S, which they live by.
00:03:09
Uh, join me in welcoming Cadeen and Deval.
00:03:12
Let's go.
00:03:13
Let's go.
00:03:15
Yes.
00:03:32
Khadeen Ellis: It's giving
black history month.
00:03:34
Excellent.
00:03:34
Look at all of these beautiful faces.
00:03:37
Devale Ellis: I am so
00:03:40
Jeannette Reyes: excited tonight.
00:03:41
How y'all feeling?
00:03:42
We're feeling great.
00:03:43
Do you ever, do you ever
get a little nervous
00:03:46
Khadeen Ellis: before these things?
00:03:47
I think it's always a little
like anxiety just to kind of get
00:03:50
started and meeting everybody.
00:03:52
So it's natural.
00:03:53
But then once I get here, Nah,
00:03:56
Devale Ellis: I haven't played football.
00:03:57
It's like When you have to try to
catch a punt in front of 80, 000 people
00:04:02
and 4 million people watching at home
and that ball goes up in the air and
00:04:05
it's like this big and you got 250
pound men running down to kill you.
00:04:10
Once you've been through that, it's
kind of like, eh, what am I nervous?
00:04:13
Jeannette Reyes: We can't
relate to that specifically.
00:04:16
He puts me through some football
workouts though, so he makes
00:04:19
me feel like I'm an athlete.
00:04:21
Well, I'm excited to talk to y'all
and I'm sure they are as well.
00:04:24
I, I'm going to.
00:04:24
Let's start like with the basics here.
00:04:26
Okay.
00:04:27
Why write a book?
00:04:28
Why put, I mean, I know you all put
your business out there and people
00:04:32
love it cause you inspire them
and you, you're relatable, but why
00:04:36
get into detail, put it in writing
where it lives on forever and ever?
00:04:40
Khadeen Ellis: That was
actually my apprehension.
00:04:42
I was like, once a book is out
there and black and white on
00:04:45
paper, there's no turning back.
00:04:46
Like my grandkids, my great grandkids,
if books are still around by then, I
00:04:51
think there'll still be a living thing,
but I'm like, they're going to be able
00:04:53
to see all my business in these streets.
00:04:55
Right.
00:04:56
Um, but a book made sense for us.
00:04:58
I felt like it was kind of a natural
succession for us because we of course
00:05:01
started with our, you know, putting videos
on Instagram and then our YouTube channel.
00:05:05
Then we had dead ass, which was
actually, I felt like it was an Thanks.
00:05:07
Extension of the video.
00:05:09
So if we talk about something, for
example, finances in a funny video,
00:05:13
we were able to unpack that in a
podcast episode, but then also to
00:05:17
Deval And I looked at the 20 years
that we've had together so far, and 12
00:05:21
married, and we're like, you know what?
00:05:24
Social media oftentimes tends
to be the highlight reel.
00:05:28
Of everything going on and I meet people
sometimes and they're like, you know,
00:05:31
I can't wait to find my deval or I wish
I had me a cadene and I'm like, well,
00:05:36
deval and cadene y'all see here today
are not deval and cadene 20 years ago.
00:05:41
It took a lot of work and sacrifice.
00:05:43
to get here.
00:05:44
So it was important for us to really think
about moments that we can put in the book
00:05:48
that were pivotal for us as a couple.
00:05:50
So people can see that we've been
putting in the work for a very long time.
00:05:55
Devale Ellis: For me, it was just books
are like the earliest medium when you, Oh,
00:06:01
Jeannette Reyes: is that
somebody's boss going off in
00:06:03
Khadeen Ellis: the It would
give me spaceship vibes, like
00:06:06
beam me up Scotty, you hear it?
00:06:07
That's an interesting ringtone.
00:06:08
It was
00:06:09
Devale Ellis: an interesting ringtone.
00:06:09
But um, if you think about all the
mediums that have come and gone, right?
00:06:12
Like DVDs, no one uses those anymore.
00:06:14
CDs, 8 track, cassette tapes.
00:06:17
Books don't go anywhere.
00:06:18
And if you want to leave your
imprint on humanity, what better
00:06:22
way than to do it in a book?
00:06:24
Jeannette Reyes: The subtitle really
stood out to me, the counterintuitive
00:06:28
approach to getting everything
you want from a relationship.
00:06:31
What stood out to me was counterintuitive.
00:06:33
What does that mean in this context?
00:06:36
Devale Ellis: Well, if you really
think about the world we live in today,
00:06:38
right, there are so many conversations
on social media about what men
00:06:42
deserve and what women deserve, right?
00:06:44
And it's become a battle of the sexes.
00:06:46
You know, if, if I'm going to go into a
relationship, he or she is required to
00:06:49
have this, and they have a list of things
that they require their partner to have.
00:06:53
And over the past, I'd say, how old is
Kyra six, six years, we both have realized
00:07:00
that if you really want to have a strong
foundation in your relationship, it's
00:07:04
not about the list you create, and if
your partner checks the list, it's about
00:07:08
what you can provide and be of service to
that your partner can then reciprocate.
00:07:12
So if you think about it.
00:07:13
Wow.
00:07:14
Checkmate.
00:07:15
You see it?
00:07:15
And that sound like a woman has
been married for a long time, right?
00:07:18
Is that what I'm saying?
00:07:19
Oh, no, not yet.
00:07:20
But you got it though.
00:07:22
Because the thing is, is we put so
much pressure on everyone else to
00:07:27
be perfect and be exactly what they
supposed to be to measure up to us.
00:07:31
And we don't think about how we
can bring things to the table.
00:07:34
And it's counterintuitive to go into
a relationship and say, what can I
00:07:37
do to be of service to this person?
00:07:39
Right?
00:07:39
We're always thinking about
what can this person do for me?
00:07:42
But it wasn't until we started to be of
service to each other that we got the best
00:07:45
versions of each other for each other.
00:07:48
Khadeen Ellis: When I really think about
even just, you can clap for my baby.
00:07:51
Go ahead, clap for him.
00:07:54
Devale Ellis: And that
was off the top too.
00:07:56
I ain't even write that down.
00:07:57
It was very
00:07:58
Khadeen Ellis: poetic.
00:07:59
It was very poetic.
00:08:00
No, I just think about
DeVal and I's relationship.
00:08:02
We were together for 13 years,
together, eight married five before we
00:08:07
even figured this service thing out.
00:08:09
Right.
00:08:10
Who listens to the podcast?
00:08:15
You guys remember the episode,
um, simp and submission.
00:08:19
I was going to get into that, but
I'm jumping the gun here a bit.
00:08:23
But Deval and I got a lot of slack for
that because people felt like, well,
00:08:27
man, you know, he's a simp because he
caters to his wife and oh, she submits
00:08:31
it because she listens to her husband.
00:08:32
But for us, we really feel
like the service component.
00:08:38
Is really what allowed us to be
able to not only communicate better,
00:08:42
but anticipate each other's needs.
00:08:43
Right?
00:08:44
So I think about this, you wake
up in the morning, you next to
00:08:47
your spouse, to your partner.
00:08:48
And the first thing that entered my mind
after we made this revelation was what
00:08:53
can I do to make devalues day better?
00:08:55
How can I alleviate some of the stress?
00:08:57
What can I take off of his plate to just
make it that much lighter for him today?
00:09:01
Because we have so many moving parts.
00:09:03
Right.
00:09:04
And the minute I did that, I almost saw
like the light in his eye, like, Oh, wow.
00:09:07
Okay.
00:09:08
Like you took the time
to think about me today.
00:09:10
Here's something I can use help with.
00:09:12
And then by doing that, it then freed
up time or space for him to say,
00:09:16
you know what, that was thoughtful.
00:09:18
What can I do now for you to
make your day that much better?
00:09:21
Jeannette Reyes: I think that's
key because what people miss
00:09:23
is that it's reciprocated.
00:09:24
It's not a one way street, right?
00:09:26
Exactly.
00:09:27
And what people hear.
00:09:28
Service and submission, they
hear you do, do, do for me.
00:09:31
Cause I'm a man and
that's the way it goes.
00:09:35
Devale Ellis: But, but I also think
it's important for people to understand
00:09:38
how we got to that point, right?
00:09:39
Like it wasn't some magical moment
where the Dean just woke up and said,
00:09:43
let me start to serve my husband.
00:09:44
That didn't happen.
00:09:45
I remember it was, sorry guys.
00:09:49
It doesn't happen like
00:09:50
Khadeen Ellis: that.
00:09:51
Devale Ellis: And this is, this is part
of the brutal honesty, and I'm going to
00:09:53
speak to the gentleman in the room, right?
00:09:55
It is okay for us, as men, to say what
we need, what we want, and what we
00:09:59
desire, if you are willing to be of
service to the person that you want
00:10:02
to be with for the rest of your life.
00:10:04
For example, I'll never forget, it was
December 31st, 2020, we were getting
00:10:09
ready to move into our home or getting,
we had just finished closing on our home.
00:10:13
We're getting ready to move into the
home, but we were in her parents house.
00:10:15
And I said, okay, let
me ask you a question.
00:10:17
When you wake up in the morning, what's
the first thing that comes to your mind?
00:10:21
And the first thing she said was the
kids, um, got to get something to eat.
00:10:25
I know I get my workout in,
got to figure out what my boss.
00:10:27
And she ran through a
whole gamut of stuff.
00:10:28
And I said, do you realize
you haven't even named me yet?
00:10:33
And she was like, wow.
00:10:36
And I said, you know, when I first wake
up in the morning, my first thing is
00:10:40
let me make sure that my wife is okay.
00:10:42
And then she said that never really
clicked to me because you're always okay.
00:10:48
And that's when I realized that
I was doing a poor job of telling
00:10:51
my wife that I'm not always okay.
00:10:53
I was always trying to wear the cape.
00:10:55
I was always trying to be the
provider and the protective.
00:10:57
And then once I let my guard down and
became more vulnerable, that's when
00:11:01
my wife started to realize that, wait
a minute, if he's not always okay, I
00:11:04
have to be the one to be there for him.
00:11:05
So, and I tell you that story because
I don't want people to think that
00:11:09
it's a magical thing that happens.
00:11:11
You have to be brutally honest
about what you want and that
00:11:14
goes for men and for women.
00:11:16
Jeannette Reyes: It's key that you
didn't get defensive, or at least I'm not
00:11:18
getting that she was defensive about it.
00:11:20
Um,
00:11:20
Devale Ellis: no, she, no,
and we had a lot of defensive
00:11:23
conversations before that.
00:11:24
Oh, there were a lot of
00:11:25
Khadeen Ellis: defensive
moments because I was perfect.
00:11:26
Don't get it twisted.
00:11:26
Okay?
00:11:27
I was perfect and you were
the one with the problems.
00:11:30
You know?
00:11:31
Um, but I was, I, I really had to reflect
because I also realized like certain
00:11:34
roadblocks in our relationship over the
course of the 20 years that I'm like, man,
00:11:38
am I, am I listening or am I listening?
00:11:41
There's a difference.
00:11:42
And not just actively listening, but also
taking the steps to make changes, right?
00:11:47
So I think for a long time they
were falling on deaf ears with me
00:11:50
at least, because again, I look
at Deval and he's always okay.
00:11:54
I always got it.
00:11:55
Just recently we had something happen
last November where he was just
00:11:58
completely burnt out, passed out on set.
00:12:01
It was a major thing.
00:12:02
And I'm in Jamaica, Dutty winding
on the beach, drinking my rum
00:12:06
punch at my friend's wedding.
00:12:08
And he says, yeah, you know,
my blood pressure's low.
00:12:11
I'm dehydrated.
00:12:12
I kind of passed out on
the set, but I'm okay.
00:12:13
I'm gonna go home, sleep,
drink some water, get an IV.
00:12:15
I'll be fine.
00:12:16
And I'm like, all right, cool.
00:12:18
You know, cause I thought
he was going to be fine.
00:12:21
Never knew the extent to which things
were happening because he's always fine.
00:12:24
So now I'm even more purposeful
now about looking him in the eye
00:12:29
and he looks at me crazy nowadays.
00:12:31
Like I literally just said to
him today, like I looked at
00:12:32
him, I'm like, are you okay?
00:12:33
And he's like, yeah,
why are you asking me?
00:12:35
I asked him several times
because I need to know.
00:12:39
I
00:12:39
Jeannette Reyes: need to know
couple goals, relationship goals.
00:12:43
I'm sure y'all hear it all the time.
00:12:45
Do you cringe?
00:12:46
Are you like, I mean, what was that?
00:12:48
You cringe.
00:12:49
Okay.
00:12:49
I didn't know if it was
like, I mean, of course.
00:12:51
I mean, look at us.
00:12:52
Couple goals.
00:12:53
Why do you cringe?
00:12:55
Devale Ellis: Well, the funny
thing is people always ask us,
00:12:57
who's the couple that you admire?
00:12:59
And I can never give them like a tie.
00:13:01
I can't.
00:13:02
They always say, who's
the millennial couple?
00:13:03
There's a Jay Z and Beyonce, Russell
and, and, and what's the name?
00:13:09
They just throw out so many
names and not for nothing.
00:13:11
I don't even judge those couples.
00:13:12
My thing is they're doing a good job
of being the best version of them.
00:13:17
I could never be Jay Z and I
don't ever want her to be Beyonce.
00:13:20
So us trying to be the best
version of Jay Z and Beyonce
00:13:23
or Russell and what is, Ciara?
00:13:27
Sorry, Ciara.
00:13:28
Sorry, Ciara.
00:13:29
Even Michelle and, and Barack.
00:13:31
It's like, I don't have
anyone I look up to.
00:13:33
I look inward for my goals.
00:13:35
I say, how can I be the best version?
00:13:37
You know?
00:13:38
Jeannette Reyes: Is it because,
cause I want you to elaborate.
00:13:41
Is it because you personally do not?
00:13:43
Or you don't think it's a good
idea to admire, to, to make, put a
00:13:47
couple on a pedestal, essentially.
00:13:49
Devale Ellis: I'm going
to tell you why I don't.
00:13:50
I grew up with both my parents and I
thought that my parents were perfect.
00:13:55
And then as you get older, your parents
start to show you how unperfect they are.
00:13:59
Yeah.
00:13:59
You know what I'm saying?
00:14:01
And then you're like, wait a minute.
00:14:04
Khadeen Ellis: And a lot of things
make sense too, especially as adults.
00:14:09
I mean, you realize that your
parents are human, right?
00:14:11
So we do a lot of reflection in this
book when we talk about our parents
00:14:14
and the impact they've had on us
because we realize in the first
00:14:17
five years of our marriage, even
prior to getting married, there was
00:14:21
really no focus or emphasis put on.
00:14:24
Showing us or teaching us or telling
us how to be a spouse, you know,
00:14:28
people get excited for the wedding
and the engagement and all that.
00:14:31
But then once that happens and the
dust settles, it's like, okay, well,
00:14:35
where's everybody at with the advice?
00:14:37
Devale Ellis: I'm gonna tell
y'all exactly how it went down.
00:14:39
Right.
00:14:40
Jeannette Reyes: Somebody felt that.
00:14:44
Devale Ellis: I, I proposed to
Kadeem and all the women said,
00:14:49
they rushed her off and
00:14:51
all
00:14:54
Devale Ellis: the men said,
00:14:59
so I'm sitting there, right?
00:15:00
And I'm just swinging
my, like, get married.
00:15:04
They were like, yeah, we see
00:15:08
you ready.
00:15:10
I'm like, I think so.
00:15:13
And they go, all right.
00:15:16
And that's it.
00:15:17
That like, that's all, that's the
only conversation any of the elders
00:15:21
in my family had with marriage.
00:15:22
So I was kind of like,
Are you trying to warn me?
00:15:26
Like,
00:15:27
Jeannette Reyes: I want to ask you
about that because you've spoken
00:15:29
about this before and I want you to,
I'm going to paraphrase, but I want
00:15:32
you to like further elaborate in case
I'm getting it wrong, that you felt
00:15:35
pressured into monogamy or marriage.
00:15:37
Yes.
00:15:38
Right.
00:15:38
Okay.
00:15:39
Um, and I, I think it was probably
taken out of context and it
00:15:42
was probably triggering, but
that happens on social media.
00:15:45
Yeah.
00:15:45
Yeah.
00:15:45
It
00:15:45
Khadeen Ellis: was a full
podcast episode on monogamy.
00:15:48
I think it was like a You know,
30 minute clip that went viral and
00:15:52
Jeannette Reyes: people
were slamming both of us.
00:15:54
Explain what you mean by that.
00:15:55
And then I want to talk about how
men specifically these days view
00:16:00
marriage, uh, and how women view it.
00:16:03
But that's for the second
part of the question.
00:16:05
I'm
00:16:05
Devale Ellis: glad you asked that
question because sometimes when
00:16:08
someone takes a 30 second clip And
they say, Oh, he felt pressured.
00:16:11
He didn't want to get married.
00:16:12
Why get married?
00:16:13
She pressured him.
00:16:13
She was pushing him.
00:16:14
That wasn't the case.
00:16:16
During the time after I
proposed, this was 2008.
00:16:18
I was in my third year in the NFL.
00:16:23
I just bought my second home.
00:16:25
I was slated to make the
roster 53 man roster.
00:16:28
I was making 500, 000 a year.
00:16:30
Life seemed perfect.
00:16:32
Right.
00:16:33
I proposed in 2008, mainly because Cadeen
had said to me, like, listen, I don't
00:16:39
want to be anyone's live in girlfriend.
00:16:42
Like we're living together.
00:16:43
I bought a home to show her that I
was serious about our future, but I
00:16:47
wasn't sure yet if I was ready to be
married mainly because of the financial
00:16:51
implications that go into planning
a wedding and preparing a lifestyle.
00:16:56
And she was just like, well, pretty
much you got a shit to get off the
00:16:59
pot because I'm not going to be here.
00:17:01
She moved to Detroit.
00:17:02
And this is, this is something that
I didn't understand at that time.
00:17:04
But I understand now you ask your
22 year old girlfriend to stop
00:17:09
her life, move to Detroit and
follow you and chase your dream.
00:17:13
Why would she do that without any
security that she's going to be okay?
00:17:18
So I understand that now, but
at 22, I didn't understand that.
00:17:22
It just felt like pressure that summer.
00:17:26
I get cut.
00:17:28
Not only do I get cut, the
economic crisis happens and I
00:17:32
lose 33 percent of all my savings.
00:17:34
And it's hemorrhaging because we're
going through the biggest recession.
00:17:37
I went from making 500, 000 a year.
00:17:40
To nothing.
00:17:41
I have two mortgages, an apartment,
three cars, and everybody else's
00:17:45
bills that I'm paying for.
00:17:46
So I told Kadeen, I don't know
if I'm ready to get married.
00:17:50
And it wasn't about being with her.
00:17:52
It was about handling the
responsibilities of being a husband.
00:17:56
Because in my mind, I wasn't
even thinking about the wedding.
00:17:58
I was thinking about the marriage.
00:18:00
Once I asked this woman to be my wife,
I am prepared to do everything she
00:18:05
needs to have the life that she wants.
00:18:07
But if I can't do that, am I
really ready to be a husband?
00:18:10
So in that moment, I felt
pressure like, dang, I don't know
00:18:12
what the next step is for me.
00:18:14
She didn't necessarily put the
pressure on me, but the pressure
00:18:17
was from society telling me, as a
man, this is what you have to do.
00:18:21
And my young, immature ways thinking
that I gotta be a man, I'm the
00:18:25
only one that could provide, you
gotta stay at home and make babies.
00:18:28
So that's where the pressure came from.
00:18:30
Jeannette Reyes: Real quick, if he
said he wasn't gonna get married,
00:18:33
Anytime soon, what would you have done?
00:18:35
I probably would have stayed.
00:18:41
He didn't call you.
00:18:42
See, see what I'm saying.
00:18:45
I probably would have stayed.
00:18:48
So yeah, that's the gag.
00:18:49
I probably would have.
00:18:53
In full transparency, here we are.
00:18:54
We might need a one on one.
00:18:58
The
00:18:58
Khadeen Ellis: ladies with you.
00:19:00
But in that moment though.
00:19:02
Again, societal pressure, right?
00:19:04
Women tend to have this
checklist by this age.
00:19:07
I need to do this.
00:19:08
By that age, I have to accomplish that.
00:19:10
I should start having children by
this age because I'm getting too old.
00:19:12
In the biological clock, there were all
these things that were flowing around
00:19:16
in my head and at me I felt like darts.
00:19:18
It's like you have to figure things out.
00:19:21
I told my super strict West Indian
parents at 22, 23, almost when
00:19:27
I graduated from grad school.
00:19:29
I'm moving to Detroit to be with my man.
00:19:31
You know, my mother looked at me like
she wants to put me over her knee and
00:19:34
give me a good old fashioned spanking.
00:19:36
Like what, how am I going to tell
your grandmother that you are moving
00:19:40
to some other state with a man?
00:19:43
Can you believe that?
00:19:44
That's everything that I was
getting the pressure on that end.
00:19:47
And then also you hear the
narrative of don't be playing
00:19:50
house with no man, with no ring.
00:19:52
Don't be doing wife stuff
on a girlfriend's bed.
00:19:55
So again, it was me.
00:19:58
Listening to the outside noise and not
really valuing and having the conversation
00:20:04
within to see where his mindset was.
00:20:06
I also knew too that I had my career
that I was trying to jumpstart.
00:20:10
I was trying to get into
news and broadcasting.
00:20:12
That's not an easy industry, you know.
00:20:14
Girl, you would have started out
in Little Rock, Arkansas, child.
00:20:16
Child!
00:20:17
Exactly!
00:20:19
Devale Ellis: We had that discussion too.
00:20:20
Khadeen Ellis: And then I said
to my mom, I'm like, okay, well,
00:20:22
he's going to be in Detroit.
00:20:23
Lansing is like a really small market.
00:20:25
I can just go to Lansing and start there.
00:20:27
Meanwhile, I had no, no, no
intentions of doing that.
00:20:30
I was going to be with him in
Detroit because at that time also
00:20:33
too, I know he needed the support.
00:20:34
And I think early on in our relationship,
we developed At the time, which
00:20:38
might've been an unhealthy codependency
because we were dating through college.
00:20:42
We had each other.
00:20:43
This was the first time when
we didn't have each other.
00:20:46
Then I'm hearing, Oh, Chad,
are you going to the NFL?
00:20:49
Um, them groupies you're
not there to be with him.
00:20:55
So what's he doing at night?
00:20:56
You know?
00:20:56
So again, it was the noise.
00:20:58
It was the noise.
00:20:59
And in my immature ways at the time,
I couldn't even foresee anything
00:21:03
else other than, um, The way to
secure this was to be married.
00:21:07
Gosh, I have so many
00:21:07
Jeannette Reyes: questions
just from, from that statement.
00:21:09
No, because it, it leads to, so, I
mean, I'll get to that in a second.
00:21:14
I do want to talk about when we, I feel
like this day and age, when we talk
00:21:17
about marriage, men often look at it
like, I'm generalizing here or not.
00:21:23
I know not all men I'm
doing her a favor, right?
00:21:25
Like I'm blessing you
with the gift of marriage.
00:21:28
You're going to tie me down,
but really I'm kind of taking
00:21:30
an L in a lot of areas here.
00:21:31
Whereas the woman looks to marriage,
like, you know, like to, to make it to
00:21:36
marriage and to be a wife for a lot of
women, whether it's for the right reasons
00:21:41
or wrong ones is something that they, that
they look to that they have as a goal.
00:21:45
Why is it that men, some
men look down on marriage?
00:21:49
Do you think that that's what
your boys were getting at?
00:21:52
Like you going to do that?
00:21:53
Devale Ellis: Absolutely.
00:21:54
Like I'm, I'm going to be a hundred
percent honest if, if you don't have
00:21:58
someone that you're equally yoked
with, that's a friend that you can
00:22:02
build with marriage is a terrible
business proposition for whoever
00:22:08
is the breadwinner.
00:22:11
Devale Ellis: It's a terrible
business proposition.
00:22:13
For example, say she's
big wig on a news network.
00:22:16
Making seven figures, right?
00:22:18
And she's just like, I
got to check these boxes.
00:22:20
I got to get married because I'm a woman
and I got to do all this other stuff.
00:22:22
So she meets a guy and the guy happens to
be me and I have no ambition, no anything.
00:22:26
I'm just there for the ride.
00:22:28
We get married.
00:22:29
She has two kids.
00:22:30
Her career goes on hold a little while.
00:22:32
She has two kids.
00:22:33
We get into an argument, we get divorced.
00:22:35
If we don't have a prenup, I'm
entitled to 50 percent of everything.
00:22:39
She's worked her whole heart for her
whole life for plus she has to pay me
00:22:43
for the kids, if I'm not a breadwinner.
00:22:45
You see what I'm saying?
00:22:46
So imagine being a man and how many men
have gone through that because the court
00:22:51
system is not designed to protect men.
00:22:53
This is just a fact.
00:22:55
So it's a terrible, no,
it's, it's the truth.
00:22:57
Oh,
00:22:58
Jeannette Reyes: now, you know,
women are the most educated, um,
00:23:02
you know, group and we do research.
00:23:06
I'm just saying.
00:23:06
Absolutely.
00:23:07
So you think it works.
00:23:08
It's really the breadwinner thing
that ends up being a big factor.
00:23:10
Devale Ellis: I mean, it is definitely
the breadwinner thing, but if we look
00:23:13
at statistics, more men out earn women.
00:23:16
So it is, uh, it's like we're at a
disadvantage to just get married if
00:23:19
you don't have a friend or someone
who you're equally yoked with.
00:23:23
And that's part of the problem.
00:23:24
There is a process to finding out
if this is the person you want to
00:23:27
spend the rest of your life with.
00:23:28
And if we don't go through that
process together, but while we're
00:23:31
trying to, the pressure is You
better marry me or I'm leaving.
00:23:34
Most men are going to
be like, fine, leave.
00:23:37
Because the truth of the matter is
the sexual revolution has changed.
00:23:40
Men don't have to work as hard to get sex.
00:23:44
There are plenty of women out here who
are willing to have sex because women
00:23:47
are doing what earning and making money.
00:23:51
There are a lot more women now than
before, who would just be like, I
00:23:54
don't need a man for anything else
other than to just drop some D off.
00:23:58
So if those, this is the truth,
there are women out there who are
00:24:01
earners who'd be like, I don't
need a man for anything else.
00:24:04
So if you're a man and you don't
have a woman you're evenly yoked with
00:24:07
and she wants to put pressure on you
to get married, it's like deuces.
00:24:10
Khadeen Ellis: I can't just go
00:24:11
Devale Ellis: do that.
00:24:11
Khadeen Ellis: I think some men
too feel like the standard of
00:24:13
the road, their sex life, right?
00:24:15
You're being locked down to one person.
00:24:16
I didn't think it was all financial.
00:24:19
I think that's it is having
to be committed to one person.
00:24:22
But that's why I also feel like, and
I expressed this in the book that you
00:24:26
have to decide if marriage is for you.
00:24:31
Marriage is not an
aspiration for everyone.
00:24:33
And that's okay.
00:24:34
I think the rhetoric that we've
been spewed for years is that
00:24:37
that's the aspiration for men and
women, women, particularly, because
00:24:41
that was the only way a woman can
get out of their parents house.
00:24:43
Think about it back in the day, they
couldn't get their own bank account.
00:24:47
So let me aspire to marriage
so I can start my own life.
00:24:50
So in the book, I mentioned that
And which I hope people find through
00:24:55
reading the book, whether you're single,
married in a committed relationship, I
00:24:57
heard you entanglement, situationship,
whatever the case may be, you have
00:25:01
to decide if marriage is for you.
00:25:04
You can't expect for someone to make you.
00:25:09
A marriage person, for example, you meet
someone, they knock you off your feet.
00:25:13
They're beautiful.
00:25:14
They're, you know, make money.
00:25:15
They have all the thing.
00:25:16
They checks the boxes, right?
00:25:18
That puts the onus on them to
be perfect and to be that person
00:25:21
who you met in that moment.
00:25:22
But can you withstand the test of time?
00:25:24
What if things change?
00:25:26
Circumstances change life, be life in.
00:25:29
So you can't expect for someone
to make you the marriage type.
00:25:32
You have to want to marry.
00:25:34
You have to want to be of service
to someone and then find the person
00:25:38
that you're equally yoked with.
00:25:39
And I pray that people find that.
00:25:40
Cause I found that right here.
00:25:44
Devale Ellis: I appreciate that.
00:25:46
You did say something.
00:25:47
I know you asked me a
question about the sex thing.
00:25:49
Cause we talk about sex a lot.
00:25:50
Jeannette Reyes: Doing
it and doing it well.
00:25:51
Is that the thing?
00:25:52
Oh, yeah.
00:25:52
That's the shaft in the book, baby.
00:25:54
We don't talk about sex.
00:25:55
Devale Ellis: But there were two sides
to it though, because you said you think
00:25:58
most men automatically assume this is.
00:26:00
This is the last person I'm going to
have sex with for the rest of my life.
00:26:03
Most of the men that I speak to
who are afraid of getting married,
00:26:06
that's not even their biggest issue.
00:26:07
It is the money.
00:26:08
Would y'all
00:26:08
Jeannette Reyes: agree?
00:26:09
I mean, I don't know if you want
to say it out loud, the men.
00:26:11
I mean, most.
00:26:11
Okay.
00:26:13
Devale Ellis: I'm going to be honest.
00:26:14
I'm going to be honest.
00:26:16
Men, a man's value is
in how much he earns.
00:26:20
Right?
00:26:20
Let's be honest.
00:26:21
If, when I told my guys that I
met a girl, the first thing they
00:26:24
said was, what she look like?
00:26:27
All of the women, when you say,
I met a guy, what does he do?
00:26:31
Our value is in how much we earn.
00:26:34
So when, when your value as a boy,
you've been taught that how much
00:26:37
money you make is going to determine
how successful you are, you're not
00:26:40
ready to just split that with anybody.
00:26:42
Right?
00:26:43
On top of that, when it comes
to sex in marriage, marriage.
00:26:46
All of the men that I spoke
to who were older than me told
00:26:48
me, Oh, you getting married?
00:26:49
Huh.
00:26:50
So last time you have sex regularly.
00:26:52
That is, that is the narrative
that is spewed to younger guys.
00:26:55
Because if we're being honest,
that is what happens most of the
00:27:00
time when you have a child, right?
00:27:01
Women's bodies change.
00:27:03
And this is the mature devalue.
00:27:04
All the time.
00:27:05
Yes, all the time.
00:27:06
Yes.
00:27:06
This is the mature devalue talking.
00:27:09
Khadeen Ellis: Several times.
00:27:10
Devale Ellis: Yes.
00:27:11
Khadeen Ellis: Every time.
00:27:14
I got those little big
headed boys to prove it.
00:27:16
Yeah.
00:27:17
Devale Ellis: Facts.
00:27:17
Khadeen Ellis: And stretch marks.
00:27:18
Devale Ellis: This is the
mature devout speaking.
00:27:21
So I'm not speaking as if I knew this the
whole time and I was, no, I was fucked up.
00:27:26
Okay.
00:27:27
I got married at 26.
00:27:29
All right.
00:27:29
We had a baby right after
that honeymoon in my mind.
00:27:32
I was like, fine.
00:27:33
She's going through stuff
where she's pregnant.
00:27:35
She crazy.
00:27:35
I get it.
00:27:36
The minute this baby come out,
she's gonna go back to normal.
00:27:40
I knew anything, I didn't do
anything about postpartum depression.
00:27:44
I didn't know anything about sleep
deprivation after having a child.
00:27:47
I knew, I had no clue.
00:27:48
Jeannette Reyes: So,
00:27:49
Devale Ellis: you're talking about another
nine months to a year after you had the
00:27:53
baby that if you were prepared by people
to tell you to look out for this, you'd
00:27:56
be like, you know what, let me be of
service and have grace for my partner.
00:28:00
But when you're thinking, you Then they
told me I wasn't gonna have no more sex.
00:28:04
Six weeks is up and she's not into it.
00:28:06
It's happening now.
00:28:07
That's like the trigger
that happens to men.
00:28:09
Seriously.
00:28:10
And that's really what happened
to us in our relationship.
00:28:12
Because I was like, yo, my mom had
a child and went right back to work.
00:28:17
You don't even have to go back to work.
00:28:18
Ooh, you said that?
00:28:19
Jeannette Reyes: No, I get it.
00:28:20
You're not the only man who said that.
00:28:22
No,
00:28:22
Devale Ellis: 100 percent honest.
00:28:24
I said that because I was
like, I watched my mom do this.
00:28:26
How come you can't do it?
00:28:28
And it was me being 26 and
27 now and not understanding.
00:28:32
And I, and this is part of the
reason why we wrote the book.
00:28:34
I wish someone would have said
the vow, be on alert for this.
00:28:39
The same way I do my young boys.
00:28:40
Now, all of my friends, when their wives
get pregnant, I take them out to lunch.
00:28:45
All of my friends, I do this.
00:28:47
I take them out to lunches.
00:28:48
And first of all, lunch is on me.
00:28:50
I say, you don't need money.
00:28:52
What is, what is your cash app?
00:28:53
I send them a love gift.
00:28:55
And I tell them, I say,
this is from Kadeen and I.
00:28:58
We want you guys to have a nice
smooth transition into adding
00:29:02
a third member to your family.
00:29:04
If you ever need anything
financially, let us know.
00:29:07
Part of the reason why is because
we know the stresses that economics
00:29:10
can cause on a relationship.
00:29:11
And I know from a man to another
man, it's a stressful time.
00:29:15
And the first thing I tell him, I say,
you know, your wife is how many weeks?
00:29:18
Six, seven weeks pregnant.
00:29:20
Okay.
00:29:20
So, you're almost at the end.
00:29:22
You got about two more years to go.
00:29:25
And they're like, what?!
00:29:27
I said, I'm telling you right
now so that you don't look at
00:29:31
your wife like she's crazy.
00:29:34
And this is the analogy I always use.
00:29:36
If you study or you,
I read a lot of books.
00:29:38
If you study about Navy SEALs and
the Marine Corps, you know what?
00:29:42
One of the most interest, the most
intentional, but deliberately hard parts
00:29:46
of the training is teaching a soldier
how to survive through sleep deprivation.
00:29:52
We're talking about some of the
most Skilled disciplined people in
00:29:55
the world have to be trained how
to deal with sleep deprivation.
00:29:59
But then we as a society expect a mom
to have a baby, be sleep deprived,
00:30:04
go to work and still be a wife.
00:30:09
And God forbid she complained about it.
00:30:10
Right.
00:30:11
And this is the truth.
00:30:12
And I'm, I'm not trying to stand
up here like I know everything.
00:30:15
I'm 38.
00:30:15
I have four kids.
00:30:16
I know now.
00:30:18
You're one child?
00:30:19
I was the lunatic that everybody hates.
00:30:22
Why are we not having sex?
00:30:24
Why are you holding out?
00:30:25
The baby's two months already.
00:30:26
What is going on?
00:30:28
Why don't you just get back in the gym?
00:30:29
Because you said you wanted to be on TV.
00:30:31
I had no clue.
00:30:34
And it's a grace from her and it's a me
having grace for her for us to get through
00:30:39
that and we want to tell those stories
so people don't feel like they're the
00:30:42
only ones going through it because we
went through it and now we're here still.
00:30:45
Jeannette Reyes: That's why we share.
00:30:47
Uh, that reminds me.
00:30:49
Um, who do y'all go to.
00:30:52
Who holds you accountable or
who do you go to for advice?
00:30:55
Who, I don't know, who's your
sounding board in the relationship
00:30:58
or is it just between you?
00:30:59
Each other.
00:31:00
It's between us.
00:31:01
Khadeen Ellis: We literally
don't have a sounding board.
00:31:03
And it's funny because when we
started the podcast, we realized that
00:31:07
even speaking aloud certain things.
00:31:10
Was like therapy for us.
00:31:11
I was like, man, I didn't even
know you felt that way about this
00:31:14
or even just having an overarching
topic that we were talking about and
00:31:17
seeing the different perspectives.
00:31:18
We felt like we were learning
so much about each other and
00:31:21
even the book writing process.
00:31:22
I want to give a special shout out
to Leah Lakins down front here.
00:31:26
Such a treat.
00:31:27
She, she was our writer for the book.
00:31:31
Yes.
00:31:31
So everyone give a round
of applause to Leah.
00:31:35
Stand up Leah.
00:31:36
And we went through.
00:31:38
Yeah.
00:31:43
So we had a checklist and
criteria real quick before what
00:31:46
our writer was going to be.
00:31:48
And of course she had to be a
sister or he had to be a brother.
00:31:50
We wanted that first and foremost,
but we went through a very extensive
00:31:54
interview process and Leah just
came out on top all the time.
00:31:57
So we thank you so much for working
with us and making this project
00:32:00
super seamless and super easy.
00:32:02
So we thank you again for that.
00:32:04
But through the book
writing process, even that.
00:32:07
Was like a form of therapy for us
because we were like, man, I didn't
00:32:10
know that's how you felt in that moment.
00:32:13
And we like to say that marriage,
at least for us, we've discovered is
00:32:17
literally one never ending conversation.
00:32:20
And the minute the conversation
pauses or doesn't happen.
00:32:25
That's a problem.
00:32:26
Jeannette Reyes: What was the most
difficult part of the book to write?
00:32:28
Like the chapter or the, you
know, few paragraphs that it,
00:32:34
that was tough to revisit.
00:32:35
Why y'all laughing?
00:32:36
Don't be, don't
00:32:37
Devale Ellis: be looking
at my facial expressions.
00:32:38
I'm trying to work on
my facial expressions.
00:32:40
I'll, I'll wear my emotions.
00:32:41
You're an actor.
00:32:42
We know that we know
00:32:43
Khadeen Ellis: that your
emotions are right there.
00:32:44
Um, so for me, it was, Deciding
to share about an unplanned
00:32:48
pregnancy that we had in college.
00:32:50
So, um, it was particularly difficult for
me because it was something that I had
00:32:54
buried for years and every time I come
00:33:00
Devale Ellis: on, baby, talk about it.
00:33:12
Khadeen Ellis: So it's something
that I had buried for years.
00:33:17
And it was mainly because of
fear of, of a shame and ridicule.
00:33:22
I'm feeling like I was being
irresponsible in the moment.
00:33:26
I'm feeling like my family and my
parents would be like, I told you so.
00:33:30
Um, so it was something that's Val
and I, again, when you ask about
00:33:33
outside influences or who was
a sounding board or who was the
00:33:35
support system, there was none.
00:33:37
I felt, um, and I could be wrong.
00:33:39
I could have maybe expressed this to
family members and they might have
00:33:43
leaned in to be of help and support.
00:33:45
But in that moment, I just felt like.
00:33:47
I only had him and I decided to share
it for several reasons, but mainly
00:33:53
because I wanted to be able to find
a woman or find a girl because we
00:33:58
do have a lot of younger people who
follow us and our story and aspire to
00:34:02
be married and be in a relationship.
00:34:04
But for someone who may struggle with this
particular situation, um, I just wanted
00:34:09
them to find comfort in knowing that they
weren't alone because that's how I felt
00:34:12
in the moment that it's going to be okay.
00:34:15
That there's a future
after something like that.
00:34:19
Um, but it also made me emotional in
that moment because writing about it, the
00:34:23
tears flowed sending voice notes to Leah,
the tears flowed, um, doing the audio
00:34:28
session with deval, because at this point.
00:34:31
I have read his portion of the
book, because what you'll see if
00:34:34
you haven't read the book yet is
that we tell different stories,
00:34:36
but it's Kadeem and Davao's
perspective, so we go back and forth.
00:34:40
And that made sense because we
wanted people to get a perspective
00:34:42
of how we both felt in that
moment with that particular story.
00:34:46
And even hearing him speak these
words aloud was almost like
00:34:49
a confessional, I felt like.
00:34:51
And it just made me feel so much more
blessed in this moment, a, because I
00:34:55
was able to heal from this, but also
it made me think, wow, I have such an
00:35:02
amazing partner who even at 19 years
old or 20 years old when it happened.
00:35:08
Was really putting me first, like
he really thought about and he had
00:35:12
compassion for my situation, even
though he wasn't the one necessarily
00:35:15
dealing with it in that moment.
00:35:16
But he was the one that just really,
really was thinking about how, how
00:35:21
are we going to get through this?
00:35:22
And people ask, why is
the title We Over Me?
00:35:25
There's so many moments in our
relationship when we may have hit
00:35:28
a rough patch or we might have
stumbled or we might have made a
00:35:32
choice that wasn't the best choice,
but it was never just, just me.
00:35:39
And I love him for that.
00:35:43
And I really just hope that my story
is something that people can relate to.
00:35:52
Um, of course I fear that sharing it would
bring some sort of fear or judgment or
00:35:57
people would no longer support me or us.
00:35:59
Devale Ellis: But
00:36:02
Khadeen Ellis: I felt like if people
genuinely understood us in that light and
00:36:08
could have empathy for us, then maybe.
00:36:14
Whoever decided to stay and support,
we're really genuinely meant to
00:36:17
be here, and I appreciate that.
00:36:21
Jeannette Reyes: Thank
you for sharing that.
00:36:23
Uh, Deval, I see you getting emotional.
00:36:26
Wise up.
00:36:29
We love you!
00:36:30
Love
00:36:31
Khadeen Ellis: y'all back.
00:36:34
Not the boogers.
00:36:35
Oh my God.
00:36:37
Guys.
00:36:41
Khadeen Ellis: I'm going to put it on
eBay like Lizzo didn't have panties.
00:36:43
Y'all heard about that?
00:36:45
Girl!
00:36:46
I said, did you dry clean them first?
00:36:49
My eBay was like, girl, this is eBay.
00:36:50
We don't, we
00:36:51
Jeannette Reyes: don't do that here.
00:36:51
So
00:36:53
Khadeen Ellis: that was my
difficult part in the book.
00:36:54
And it took a while for me to decide if
that was something that I wanted to share.
00:36:57
But I just felt like with the
climate that we're in, with, uh,
00:37:01
women being under attack, black
women being under attack, um, um.
00:37:05
You know, it was just necessary.
00:37:07
The women's bodies be under attack.
00:37:09
I felt like it was just
necessary to share that.
00:37:11
Um, so I hope that you guys, when you
read that portion of it, um, I guess
00:37:16
not that you enjoy it, but you can
understand where we were at that time.
00:37:20
Um, you know,
00:37:23
Devale Ellis: yeah, I would have to agree.
00:37:24
First of all, I love you.
00:37:26
I love you.
00:37:26
Um,
00:37:29
Khadeen Ellis: I didn't
mean to make you cry too.
00:37:31
Devale Ellis: Uh, shit.
00:37:32
I can't, um,
00:37:33
Khadeen Ellis: I'm sorry.
00:37:34
It wasn't supposed to
be that kind of night.
00:37:37
It was supposed to be real light.
00:37:38
Devale Ellis: I want, I want to say
that when people ask me all the time,
00:37:42
like, how could you, how can, how
can we get what you and Kadeem have?
00:37:46
Right.
00:37:48
I never find the words.
00:37:49
Because I don't like this is ordained.
00:37:52
I don't I never thought
I was going to love
00:37:58
Like I I am probably like the most
super macho man that I try to be from
00:38:04
Brooklyn, but when it comes to her There's
no, like, that's all out the window.
00:38:09
The whole vibrato is all out the window.
00:38:11
Like, this is my homie, my dog.
00:38:12
Like I would kill for her.
00:38:13
I would die for her.
00:38:14
Like, and
00:38:18
Khadeen Ellis: don't die for me.
00:38:19
Cause we dying together.
00:38:20
All right.
00:38:21
It's giving notebook, it's
giving notebook vibes here.
00:38:26
Devale Ellis: Girl, first of all, she
made me watch the notebook in college.
00:38:28
I cried like a baby.
00:38:30
I was like, they both died
together holding hands.
00:38:32
Oh my God.
00:38:33
Watch it, right?
00:38:34
I gotta go to practice.
00:38:38
But um, I'll tell you one thing.
00:38:41
I, I, I realized how
powerful my wife is, right?
00:38:45
Because I grew up a very
strict Southern Baptist.
00:38:48
And when you go through situations
like that, you always feel
00:38:52
like you're failing everybody.
00:38:54
I failed everybody.
00:38:55
I can't tell nobody.
00:38:55
I can't do this.
00:38:56
Now.
00:38:57
I told my pops because my pops is my dog.
00:39:00
Like, of course I had to, you know,
go through the process with her.
00:39:03
And he was just like, you better
make sure that Kadeen is okay.
00:39:07
I didn't tell any of the women
in my family because I was just
00:39:09
like, I don't want to be judged.
00:39:12
But then when the book was
coming out, I said, yo, I got to
00:39:13
speak truthfully to my family.
00:39:15
I don't want them to
find out when reading.
00:39:17
And I was speaking to
members of my family.
00:39:20
I don't want to say who, cause I
don't want to share their business.
00:39:22
And I told them what happened
and they put their hands on me
00:39:26
and said, baby, I've been there.
00:39:29
And for the first time as a grown man,
I looked at the women who I never wanted
00:39:34
to fail, never wanted to disappoint
and be like, May you human and you
00:39:39
see me, you know what I'm saying?
00:39:40
Like you see me.
00:39:42
So I just wanted to say like you are so
powerful for choosing to share that story
00:39:46
because now there's so many women that
are going to be seen and they're going
00:39:50
to feel like, wow, like I'm not alone.
00:39:53
I'm not a monster.
00:39:53
And I just want to give
you your flowers now
00:39:56
because
00:40:00
Devale Ellis: as difficult
as it was for me to be there.
00:40:04
Cause we always say our pregnancy,
we don't ever say her pregnancies,
00:40:07
our pregnancy, as difficult.
00:40:08
It was for me.
00:40:10
To read and write.
00:40:11
I know it had to be 10
times as hard for you, but
00:40:15
Jeannette Reyes: I don't
want to take up y'all.
00:40:16
I know y'all had a ton of questions.
00:40:17
Thank you so much for sharing
that by the way, guys.
00:40:19
I, I know you've heard from folks
I'm sure who can relate to that,
00:40:22
but there are so many others
who don't feel comfortable yet.
00:40:26
Right.
00:40:26
Speaking up publicly who I'm sure
even in this room are quietly
00:40:30
nodding their head and feeling seen.
00:40:32
So there's power in sharing
your, your stories with that.
00:40:36
I don't want to lose track of time here
because I know y'all got to get to bed.
00:40:39
No, I'm good.
00:40:39
See, now I'm staying on
the news in the morning.
00:40:41
Tomorrow I'm stumbling reading.
00:40:44
Y'all know why.
00:40:44
Um, so let's open it up to questions,
but we do have some, some rules that
00:40:49
we want to, um, set for the Q and a
00:40:59
Ramunda Young: let's give it
up for Kadeena DeVille again,
00:41:07
really quickly with the questions.
00:41:09
Like I said, Christine is on this side.
00:41:11
Raise your hand again.
00:41:13
And I'm Ramonda.
00:41:13
I'll be on this side.
00:41:14
So if you have a question, please come
down to any, um, microphone on this side.
00:41:18
We'll probably have time for
maybe two and two on each side.
00:41:20
We'll see.
00:41:21
We'll play it by ear.
00:41:22
Um, but please questions, not comments,
not you trying to be an extra on Tyler
00:41:26
Perry's movie, not trying to work on
their social media, be with, you know,
00:41:31
just a question about the book or about
marriage, please just in honor of time.
00:41:35
So come on down on either side
and we'll open up for questions.
00:41:46
And we'll alternate.
00:41:47
I'll go first and then we'll
pass the second one to Christine.
00:41:50
All right.
00:41:51
Tell us your name and your question.
00:41:54
Audience Member: Hello, my name is
Brooke and my question is you mentioned
00:41:56
that you were raised like Baptist.
00:41:58
So what role does faith play in
your counter intuitive approach
00:42:03
to your marriage and relationship?
00:42:06
Devale Ellis: Oh, that actually,
that's a great question, Brooke.
00:42:08
Um, Kadeem grew up Seventh day Adventist
and I grew up Baptist, Southern Baptist.
00:42:13
So for us, faith is important because
we both feel like God is going to
00:42:17
reveal himself to you in his own way.
00:42:20
And when we talk about the
counterintuitive approach, so many
00:42:23
people are always looking outward for
answers about their relationship, right?
00:42:27
We look inward and we look to God, right?
00:42:29
Um, we believe in a more traditional,
traditional marriage where, I'm
00:42:36
more of a servant leader and they
say she's submissive, but she
00:42:41
follows me because I follow God.
00:42:43
And if God tells me,
00:42:51
but here's, here's,
here's the truth though.
00:42:54
If God tells me that I
have to follow my wife,
00:42:57
Khadeen Ellis: that's all right too.
00:42:59
Devale Ellis: That's part of it.
00:43:00
You know what I'm saying?
00:43:01
So faith, faith is huge
in our relationship.
00:43:07
We will be passing the collection
plate for the building renovation fund.
00:43:12
Khadeen Ellis: Put your gloves on girl.
00:43:13
Put your gloves on.
00:43:18
for your question, Brooke.
00:43:19
Yes.
00:43:22
Audience Member: My name is Shia.
00:43:23
I love you guys.
00:43:24
Um, my question is, what do you
do when one of you guys are not as
00:43:28
motivated as the other and y'all both
are collectively working on the goal
00:43:31
and you know, maybe the thing could be
doing more devout could be doing more.
00:43:34
What do you do instead of
like getting frustrated, like,
00:43:37
why are you not doing it?
00:43:38
What do you do?
00:43:38
How do you do that in a healthy manner?
00:43:40
Child, we don't sometimes.
00:43:45
She about to kill me right now.
00:43:46
Oh
00:43:47
Khadeen Ellis: God.
00:43:48
Listen sis, this guy
here has no off button.
00:43:51
Okay.
00:43:52
No off button.
00:43:54
That's see, look, she's
pointing at her man too.
00:43:56
No off button.
00:43:57
And I respect it though, because why?
00:43:59
It's easy.
00:44:01
It's easy to be a follower
because I'm like, man, my man's
00:44:03
going to get it done, right?
00:44:05
His work ethic is unlike
anyone I've ever seen in life.
00:44:08
And he doesn't, and it's
particularly difficult because we
00:44:10
work together on so many things.
00:44:12
So I'm like, baby, sometimes I just want
my man, like, I just want my boyfriend.
00:44:17
I don't want to vow the business partner.
00:44:18
I don't want to vow the co host.
00:44:20
I don't want to vow the author.
00:44:21
I want my man.
00:44:23
So what it requires for us
to do is really find ways.
00:44:27
And I'm normally deliberate about saying,
we're going to turn the phone off.
00:44:30
You're going to have
to put the phone down.
00:44:32
I tend to be the one that's
not as motivated half the
00:44:34
time because I need my break.
00:44:36
Like I'm no longer on this team.
00:44:38
No sleep waves.
00:44:39
I need my sleep.
00:44:40
I need my sleep.
00:44:41
I need my rest.
00:44:42
And I'm going to take that.
00:44:44
So in order to motivate each other.
00:44:46
I usually feel like I don't want to
let him down, so sometimes I'll try to
00:44:50
push the envelope and work overdrive,
but it never works out well for me.
00:44:54
So, we've learned that our processes
are different, and because our
00:44:57
processes are different, we have
to respect each other's process.
00:45:00
So, even in this book writing here,
Leo's probably like, we can eat it.
00:45:06
I'm changing diapers and breastfeeding.
00:45:08
I'm doing a ton of things at the same
time, because usually I try to what
00:45:11
alleviate things off of deval's plate.
00:45:13
So he can be his best self.
00:45:14
Right.
00:45:15
And in doing that though, things falter
and I look like the weakest link.
00:45:19
And sometimes we have moments like
that, but deval has learned to give
00:45:23
me a lot of grace in the moment.
00:45:24
And he does learn how to turn
things off and he's learned better
00:45:27
ways to motivate me other than.
00:45:29
Yelling or putting me down.
00:45:31
So I don't feel inadequate.
00:45:32
Yeah, we've been
00:45:33
Devale Ellis: there.
00:45:33
Yeah.
00:45:34
Are you the one who works?
00:45:35
Audience Member: I'm the motivator.
00:45:36
I don't have no stop button.
00:45:38
So I could tell
00:45:39
Devale Ellis: by the way
you asked the question.
00:45:42
It was when you grabbed the mic and you
were just like, so, so I just want to know
00:45:46
when your partner is just going to get
00:45:49
Audience Member: his black ass up.
00:45:50
Come here.
00:45:50
I could tell.
00:45:51
I could tell when you
00:45:53
Khadeen Ellis: started.
00:45:53
I was sweating looking.
00:45:54
I started sweating.
00:45:55
Sweating looking at you.
00:45:56
'cause I'm like, she's the one,
00:45:58
Audience Member: she's
the one, have these goals.
00:46:02
And if he's not on it as
me, I'm like, whatcha doing?
00:46:05
You got a, you said we getting old?
00:46:08
I said, no.
00:46:09
Oh, we need a home.
00:46:10
Oh, we need a home.
00:46:11
You got a I need balance, baby.
00:46:15
So this
00:46:15
Devale Ellis: is, this
is what I'll say, right?
00:46:16
Do you have faith in your own discernment
to pick a partner that's going to be
00:46:20
there for you when you need you the most?
00:46:23
Okay.
00:46:24
So if, if you have the faith in your own
discernment, you have to learn to be like,
00:46:30
my partner has his own process, right?
00:46:34
This is mature devout.
00:46:35
Now I'll tell you a
story about why it was.
00:46:38
I wasn't a while back, but I've
learned to say, you know what, you
00:46:44
don't want to do the chapters that
Leah asked us to do six months ago.
00:46:48
You can do that on your own time.
00:46:50
I'm going to do extra chapters so
that when, so that's what it is.
00:46:55
If you know it won't kill
you to do more, do more.
00:46:58
Marriage is not going to be 50 50.
00:47:00
Sometimes it's going to be 90
00:47:02
Ramunda Young: 10.
00:47:03
Devale Ellis: It's just going
to be like because I'll tell
00:47:05
you what, when she was pregnant.
00:47:07
It was 95 percent her
carrying them babies.
00:47:10
That was
00:47:11
Khadeen Ellis: 100 percent
me carrying them babies.
00:47:13
What you mean?
00:47:14
Devale Ellis: I held the hand.
00:47:16
I had my 5%.
00:47:18
But you know what I'm saying?
00:47:19
When the table will turn at some point,
you're going to have to understand when
00:47:23
he's pushing you for certain reasons.
00:47:24
And the reason why I need you to
understand how hard that is for him is
00:47:27
because I used to I was bad with this
because I grew up with my parents were
00:47:33
the type of parents who were just like
everything you do is not good enough.
00:47:37
I could get 95 on a test.
00:47:38
It's like, what are the five points?
00:47:40
You know what I'm saying?
00:47:41
I got kicked off the basketball team by
my mom because My GPA dropped below 90.
00:47:47
I had a teacher who gave me
a 75 For missing homework
00:47:51
that I did, he misplaced Mr.
00:47:53
Fass, his stupid ass.
00:47:54
I'll never forget, 7th grade,
Andrews Huddy Junior High School,
00:47:58
I missed 7th grade basketball.
00:48:00
Mr.
00:48:00
Fass gave me a 75 because
he misplaced my homework.
00:48:03
My mother said, I don't
care if it was misplaced.
00:48:05
place.
00:48:06
You should have gave that man his stuff
in his hand so you can have your 90
00:48:09
average and you not playing basketball.
00:48:11
That was my mentality.
00:48:12
But that's also what made me great.
00:48:14
I had coaches who motivated,
called me every curse word in
00:48:18
the book and it made me great.
00:48:20
So in my mind, when you communicate
to people the way you like
00:48:23
being communicated to, you think
it's going to make them great.
00:48:26
It didn't work.
00:48:28
I never, I'll never forget.
00:48:30
This is a chapter in a book
you'll hear, you'll read about,
00:48:33
but Kadeem came to the gym.
00:48:35
She said she wanted to be in the best
shape of her life going into 2016, right?
00:48:39
She had just come off turning 30 in 2015.
00:48:43
She's like, baby, I'm going
to best shape of my life.
00:48:45
We decided that we were
going to have another child.
00:48:47
So I said, for your own health, because we
almost lost Kadeem after having Jackson,
00:48:52
you have to be in the best shape of your
life so we can get through this pregnancy
00:48:56
We were in there first part of the year.
00:48:57
She's not working out.
00:48:59
Talking to people just
procrastinate doing, you know,
00:49:02
Khadeen Ellis: she was your business.
00:49:03
I was schmoozing I was it
was about the retention
00:49:06
Devale Ellis: for me, right customer
satisfaction talking to people.
00:49:08
She did three hours talking
to people I'm ready to go now.
00:49:11
It's nine o'clock.
00:49:12
She goes.
00:49:12
Oh, you ready to leave?
00:49:13
I was just about to start working
out So this is where the and this
00:49:18
i'ma be very honest the old messed
up deval was You full of shit, bro.
00:49:23
That's what I said.
00:49:24
Yeah, you full of shit, bro.
00:49:25
Shit, what you mean?
00:49:26
I said you was here for
three hours bullshitting.
00:49:28
And I'm up here working.
00:49:29
I worked 18 hours a day.
00:49:30
This was during a time where I felt like
I was in my right to speak like this.
00:49:35
I had told her she didn't
have to work full time.
00:49:37
She could work when she wanted to work.
00:49:38
I was working 18 hours a
day, seven days a week.
00:49:41
I was exhausted.
00:49:42
I said, you full of shit.
00:49:43
You said you was going to
come in here at seven o'clock.
00:49:45
This is now.
00:49:46
Passed 10 o'clock and
you still ain't work out.
00:49:48
I think we should get a divorce, right?
00:49:50
And she's just like, what you
mean you should get a divorce?
00:49:52
I said, we can't agree on anything.
00:49:53
We argue about finances.
00:49:55
We argue about food.
00:49:56
We argue about sex and you fucking lazy.
00:49:59
This is what I said.
00:50:00
I'm not gonna lie to you.
00:50:01
You know what she said to me?
00:50:03
I'm not fucking lazy, DeVal.
00:50:08
It gets better.
00:50:09
I'm fucking pregnant.
00:50:14
I go, well, why don't you leave
00:50:16
Khadeen Ellis: with that?
00:50:18
Not quite the way I expected to announce
this pregnancy for our second son.
00:50:24
Devale Ellis: But in that
moment I realized, like, shit.
00:50:27
Khadeen Ellis: Surprise.
00:50:28
Devale Ellis: I wasn't present enough
to realize that my wife was actually
00:50:31
going through something because I was so
focused on accomplishing the goals that
00:50:35
I thought we should be accomplishing.
00:50:37
Ebbs and flows.
00:50:37
And it was messed up.
00:50:38
I'm not gonna lie, it would have felt real
00:50:39
Jeannette Reyes: good saying
that cause like to, it sure did.
00:50:41
It was like,
00:50:43
Khadeen Ellis: drive, smite,
hole at, not what you got to say.
00:50:47
Devale Ellis: And in all honesty, that
moment is what changed our marriage.
00:50:52
Because after that is when I decided,
you know what, from no longer will I
00:50:54
try to be your coach and your motivator.
00:50:57
I'm going to be your partner.
00:50:58
I'm going to be here for what you
need and I'm going to be present
00:51:00
and whatever you need, I got you.
00:51:02
Once I did that, I noticed that
she changed and she had me and I
00:51:07
said, wait a minute, why don't I
do this when she's not pregnant?
00:51:13
And then Cairo came.
00:51:14
And then shortly after
that, Kaz came, right?
00:51:18
Khadeen Ellis: Shortly after
that, for real, six months later,
00:51:20
to be exact, because he was
just delivering on everything.
00:51:23
I was like, well, I guess
I'm a delivery again.
00:51:25
Devale Ellis: She was
delivering at that point.
00:51:28
You know what I'm saying?
00:51:29
So, um, giving her grace and allowing
your partner to develop their own process
00:51:36
is how you get through those times.
00:51:37
Khadeen Ellis: But don't forget to
just be friends too in the process.
00:51:39
Yes.
00:51:39
Yes.
00:51:40
No, you're welcome.
00:51:41
Next question over here.
00:51:42
Sorry, that was a long one.
00:51:43
That's all right.
00:51:46
Audience Member: In those moments of
arguing and like you're sitting there.
00:51:51
You want to say something, but you holding
it back, you know, you holding it back.
00:51:56
And so she's sitting there waiting
for, yeah, that's my wife up there.
00:52:01
That's my wife up there.
00:52:02
You see him look back
00:52:02
Khadeen Ellis: cause he nervous.
00:52:03
He's like, let me make sure she ain't
going to slap me upside my head.
00:52:08
Audience Member: And she's
sittin there waitin on a answer.
00:52:12
And everything that you wanna
say, you know it's gonna go up.
00:52:16
What is your strategy in that moment?
00:52:20
Khadeen Ellis: De'Ville gonna go up.
00:52:22
Audience Member: Quick.
00:52:23
Devale Ellis: That is not true.
00:52:24
That is not true.
00:52:28
If I want to have sex later,
00:52:32
Khadeen Ellis: That's
in the dining factory.
00:52:33
We not going
00:52:33
Devale Ellis: out.
00:52:35
If I'm in a place where we already
had sex in the day, let me tell
00:52:39
you how I feel about this, Kadid.
00:52:40
No, in all honesty, we have
developed a new rule in our house.
00:52:46
We deal with stuff openly,
honestly, and in real time.
00:52:50
There's no more holding it back.
00:52:52
Let me know.
00:52:53
And then we tell each other, Hey, and
we, we had a, we was having a little
00:52:56
disagreement yesterday in the car.
00:52:58
She was all about our
friends that work with us.
00:53:00
And there's the car.
00:53:01
And I said, listen, baby.
00:53:02
Life is too short.
00:53:04
I don't want to argue with you.
00:53:05
We could get into an accident right
now on this highway and never see
00:53:08
us, ourselves, or these kids again.
00:53:10
Tell me what's the matter
so we can get over it.
00:53:13
Period.
00:53:13
Like, I don't care what it is.
00:53:15
Tell me what it is.
00:53:16
We discussed it.
00:53:17
And before you know it, we, this
is us in the car after that.
00:53:22
Khadeen Ellis: Look at Janelle.
00:53:23
Janelle's like.
00:53:25
Devale Ellis: But, but 20s, Kadeen
and Davao would have been like this.
00:53:29
Khadeen Ellis: We wouldn't
have made it here today.
00:53:30
We wouldn't.
00:53:31
Jenelle would be here by herself.
00:53:32
Devale Ellis: Denora would've
been like, Denora would've been
00:53:34
like, Guys, you have to come out.
00:53:35
These people paid for y'all to do this.
00:53:36
Khadim would've been like,
00:53:38
Khadeen Ellis: I ain't going out
there to talk about black love.
00:53:39
Fuck black love.
00:53:40
That's bad.
00:53:41
That's bad.
00:53:41
Y'all think, y'all think That actually,
that actually really happened, y'all.
00:53:47
Oh my God.
00:53:47
So here we are, six
months after we have Kyro.
00:53:49
Kyro is six months old, right?
00:53:52
Black Love.
00:53:53
Who watched the Black Love series?
00:53:55
Shout out to Tommy and Cody Own.
00:53:57
So we were about to tape Black Love.
00:54:00
Um, at this point, don't
know I'm pregnant with Cass.
00:54:03
I'm already feeling some kind of way
and I don't know what it is exactly,
00:54:06
but I'm pumping before she comes in.
00:54:08
I'm trying to get dressed.
00:54:09
The deval's like, they're downstairs.
00:54:10
You don't got no pants on.
00:54:11
Put your pants on.
00:54:13
Devale Ellis: I'm like,
yo, you gotta hurry up.
00:54:15
Like, they about to come upstairs.
00:54:17
And she's like, you're not
going to be rushing me.
00:54:18
You're not going to be rushing me.
00:54:19
I'm like, yo, what's with the hostility?
00:54:20
Like, I just, I'm just trying
to tell you, people are coming
00:54:23
in the house and this and that.
00:54:24
She's like, you know what?
00:54:24
I'm trying to I never wanted
to do this shit anyway.
00:54:26
Facts.
00:54:27
So, y'all think my mouth is crazy, right?
00:54:29
She, Jamaican and
Vincentian from Brooklyn.
00:54:31
Her mouth is crazy.
00:54:33
Right?
00:54:34
So she's like, I'm not
doing this shit no more.
00:54:35
I said, Kadeem, these people flew all
the way from LA to come interview us.
00:54:40
Her words verbatim is like, I don't
care about black love, fuck black love.
00:54:45
I'm like, Kadeem, you can, so now
we in, we, I got her pants, right?
00:54:50
I'm trying to pull her pants up.
00:54:51
Khadeen Ellis: And then I'm post
baby, six months, so nothing fits.
00:54:54
Nothing looks good.
00:54:54
I'm supposed to be on camera.
00:54:55
My hair ain't right.
00:54:57
But this is the best
00:54:57
Devale Ellis: part though, right?
00:54:58
We are guys on the door,
but right now this is us.
00:55:13
So that's also have your arguments,
but have the unified front so other
00:55:16
people don't be in your arguments
and in your business, speak about
00:55:20
it in real time and keep it there.
00:55:22
Keep it there.
00:55:23
But don't let other people know.
00:55:25
That's how we get through it.
00:55:28
Khadeen Ellis: Sounds like
she's been trying to tell you
00:55:29
this for a while, brother.
00:55:30
Yeah.
00:55:31
All right.
00:55:31
Maybe you don't listen,
00:55:33
Devale Ellis: bro.
00:55:33
Once you have it, it feels so much better.
00:55:35
Yeah.
00:55:35
You know, but, but also have
it gently don't, don't have it.
00:55:40
Like how I know men
sometimes want to have it.
00:55:43
Because I'm that guy, learn to have
it gently and use gentle words.
00:55:47
Nice, trust me.
00:55:48
There you go.
00:55:49
Use gentle.
00:55:49
Look, there you go, look.
00:55:51
Look, there you go.
00:55:52
She's like, come on back.
00:55:53
She got the hands ready
for you, my brother.
00:55:56
Audience Member: Hi.
00:55:57
Alright, we're good.
00:55:58
I'm Jontay, and my question, that actually
led me into my question, is how do you
00:56:04
all deal with, um, having those tough
conversations in front of your kids?
00:56:08
So you were just talking about, you know,
how you grew up and you didn't see your
00:56:12
parents and stuff, but like, how do y'all
have disagreements and stuff with, in
00:56:17
front of your kids without scaring them?
00:56:21
Khadeen Ellis: We took
a while to get there.
00:56:22
We were just talking about how we
feel like we broke Jackson, our
00:56:26
oldest, we probably broke him so
many times within our relationship
00:56:31
because we were growing together.
00:56:33
We were just talking about it on
the car ride and like our oldest.
00:56:36
Or typically the oldest goes through
growing with you, you know, as a person.
00:56:42
So not only is it my growing as an
individual, I'm trying to grow within
00:56:45
this marriage and then trying to
also raise a child in the process.
00:56:48
And Jackson definitely early on
her disagreements between Deval
00:56:52
and I, and just would be like,
Are you still mad at daddy?
00:56:55
Are you still mad at mommy?
00:56:56
And then he would internalize it too.
00:56:59
And that's when we realized
it was a problem because we
00:57:01
had, uh, we were on, we had,
00:57:04
Devale Ellis: we spoke,
we did talk about this on
00:57:06
Khadeen Ellis: the radio show, the radio
00:57:07
Devale Ellis: show.
00:57:07
Khadeen Ellis: Yeah.
00:57:07
So we were on the Frankski show in
Georgia, um, uh, last week I think it was.
00:57:11
And we talked about the
story with a stroller, right?
00:57:14
Who heard the stroller story before?
00:57:15
I don't know if anyone
00:57:16
Devale Ellis: knows the stroller story.
00:57:17
Long story short, a lot
of people have questions.
00:57:19
We argued about a stroller.
00:57:21
We were screaming at each other,
cursing at each other, because
00:57:23
we were young, 20 years old.
00:57:25
And I said, you know what, Jackson's
right there getting ready for school.
00:57:27
And I'm like, you know,
I'm not going to school.
00:57:29
I'm not taking him to school.
00:57:29
We have to discuss this before I leave.
00:57:31
Jackson goes, so I can't go to school
because y'all having an argument?
00:57:36
Literally said that.
00:57:38
He was like
00:57:38
Jeannette Reyes: four or five.
00:57:39
Not the kid being the mature one.
00:57:41
Yes.
00:57:41
Literally.
00:57:42
Jeannette Reyes: I like school though.
00:57:45
Devale Ellis: So I say, come on.
00:57:46
Let's go to school.
00:57:47
I take him to school.
00:57:47
We typically listen to the
Breakfast Club every morning.
00:57:50
This morning, I was just over it.
00:57:51
So I turned the radio off.
00:57:53
We have our handshake.
00:57:54
We do.
00:57:54
I get to school and I drop him
off and he jumps out of the car.
00:57:57
He's like, Daddy, our handshake.
00:57:58
I said, Jackson, go to school.
00:57:59
You're already late.
00:58:00
Right?
00:58:00
So now I've projected everything
we've gone through on him.
00:58:04
So he goes in school and we go back home.
00:58:07
We reconcile, we find, you know,
had our little canoe session.
00:58:10
We good now.
00:58:11
Right?
00:58:12
So now I'm skipping to go get my son.
00:58:13
Cause I'm happy every day after school.
00:58:17
Third grade, I'll never forget, Jackson
would open that door, see me, and
00:58:20
full speed sprint and jump in my arms.
00:58:22
This day, all the kids
come out, Jackson is last.
00:58:26
And he walks, like he just walks.
00:58:28
And I'm like, yo, buddy,
what's the matter?
00:58:30
He goes, are you still mad at me?
00:58:32
And I was like
00:58:34
Khadeen Ellis: Heartbroken.
00:58:34
Deval,
00:58:34
Devale Ellis: you like the worst
person in the world right now, bro.
00:58:37
Khadeen Ellis: And I let him know, too.
00:58:38
I was like, you really are.
00:58:39
Because I'm like
00:58:41
Devale Ellis: She did, she did do that.
00:58:42
She ain't want to take no
blame, no accountability.
00:58:44
I had to really I sent my son to school
and he probably wasn't able to focus
00:58:50
on being the best version of his self
because he was concerned that his dad
00:58:54
is mad at him when he did nothing wrong.
00:58:57
That made us realize
that we can't do that.
00:59:00
Like
00:59:00
Devale Ellis: we cannot do that no
matter what we're going through, we have
00:59:02
to find a gentle place to speak to our
kids, even when we're in our workspace.
00:59:06
So we don't have drag, we
don't argue like that anymore.
00:59:10
We have conversations.
00:59:11
If I have an issue, we talk about it.
00:59:13
We don't scream at each other.
00:59:14
We don't degrade or curse at each other.
00:59:16
We have grown people conversations and
we have them in front of our children.
00:59:21
And then they'll sit there and they'll
be like, what y'all talking about?
00:59:23
And we had a disagreement
and this and this and that.
00:59:25
And I want them to see how you're
supposed to speak to a woman.
00:59:29
Yes.
00:59:29
So that when they have
wives and girlfriends,
00:59:34
they can say, well, my dad and
my mom used to speak like this.
00:59:37
So I'm not going to
scream and argue with you.
00:59:38
And
00:59:39
Khadeen Ellis: one thing big with them
with us is that we teach them how to
00:59:40
control their emotions and how to express
how they feel and how to communicate.
00:59:44
So we have to be the example of that
if we're requiring that from them.
00:59:47
Ramunda Young: Yeah.
00:59:47
Next question right here.
00:59:49
Tell us your name.
00:59:50
Audience Member: Hello,
my name's Brittany.
00:59:52
Nice to meet you guys.
00:59:53
What's up?
00:59:53
Meet Brittany.
00:59:54
I love you guys.
00:59:54
Big thank you.
00:59:56
Thank you for this opportunity.
00:59:57
So I have a two part question for you both
to kind of answer along the same lines.
01:00:01
I've been single dating, um, and I
wanted to know basically, so Deval, your
01:00:06
question is, you all mentioned earlier
in the conversation in regards to being
01:00:10
unequally yoked and the imbalance.
01:00:12
I get the unequally yoked from a spiritual
perspective and how that can flow into
01:00:15
a relationship as well as the imbalance.
01:00:17
But in a relationship, because you're two
totally different people, backgrounds, et
01:00:20
cetera, et cetera, there's always going
to be an imbalance somewhere as a man
01:00:24
being comfortable with pursuing that and
having the marriage, I guess, if you will,
01:00:29
of, uh, proposing to someone and knowing
that what is it that you're looking for?
01:00:34
Is it more so the foundational purposes,
the ambition drive, that sort of thing
01:00:37
that would make a man comfortable, um,
with that, knowing that eventually you
01:00:40
can get there because of course you build.
01:00:42
And then Kadeen, um, you're beautiful.
01:00:45
Love you.
01:00:45
Um, You mentioned also in the sense
of, but you mentioned in the sense of
01:00:56
being girlfriend doing wifely duties,
um, that is something that's kind
01:00:59
of like a stigma in today's society.
01:01:01
Um, but I have the opinion of your dating
and what you're doing as your dating
01:01:05
is going to transfer into marriage.
01:01:06
So where do you find the fine
line between girlfriend duties?
01:01:10
And actually getting the ring and then
upping it, upping the auntie, if you
01:01:14
will, or is it what I'm doing as a
girlfriend, you're going to get as a wife.
01:01:18
Khadeen Ellis: You want
to answer first or?
01:01:19
Devale Ellis: Um, yeah, it's, it's funny.
01:01:20
This is another conversation
we talked about the team that I
01:01:23
work with is predominantly women
and we had this conversation.
01:01:26
What I try to tell people who are
dating is be exactly who you want
01:01:30
to be for the rest of your life.
01:01:32
And if you are that person, the person who
wants that person will adore you for it.
01:01:37
If you go up there with a representative.
01:01:40
And the person falls in love
with the representative and
01:01:42
then you change, that's on you.
01:01:44
Don't hold back who you are because you're
afraid someone may take who you are.
01:01:48
You'll never find love that way.
01:01:50
And yes, being vulnerable is scary.
01:01:52
But let's be honest, being the
representative is even scarier.
01:01:55
Because now you're meeting someone
who, if you're a representative
01:01:58
and they're a representative,
you don't know who they are.
01:02:00
And you're trying to build a life
with someone who you don't know while
01:02:02
being someone who you really aren't.
01:02:05
Be
01:02:05
Devale Ellis: who you are and
let the person love you the way
01:02:08
Audience Member: you
01:02:12
Khadeen Ellis: Good.
01:02:14
So to answer your question about the
wifely duties and girlfriend, I always
01:02:18
existed in a space well early on,
because again, I didn't date several
01:02:22
different men prior to the vow.
01:02:23
Maybe he had two little high
school things running around with.
01:02:25
But, um, for me, I always felt like
I existed in a space of two things.
01:02:31
One, I saw how my mother, my grandmother,
the women around me took care of.
01:02:37
Their spouse.
01:02:38
So for me, it was a lead
by example kind of a thing.
01:02:40
So I saw my grandmother worked the night
shift as a CNA at the hospital, come home,
01:02:46
cook a meal for my grandfather, make sure
that it was on the stove and his portion
01:02:50
was set aside and his plate was made.
01:02:51
He would come in from the door.
01:02:52
She'd be asleep, taking a
nap, but he came in from work.
01:02:55
She'd get up.
01:02:56
Even if she was dog tired, she would set
his plate, warm his food up, sit with him
01:03:00
while he ate dinner to have chit chat.
01:03:02
And then, you know, she'd go on
her merry way back to sleep so
01:03:05
she can get up to go to work.
01:03:06
I saw that.
01:03:07
So I felt like that was
just natural, right?
01:03:10
That catering to factor.
01:03:12
I just so happened to meet somebody
who I felt like was deserving
01:03:15
of that as well, too, right?
01:03:17
Because it was reciprocal.
01:03:18
I also saw how he was a gentleman.
01:03:21
I saw how he was taking care of me.
01:03:23
I saw how he was making an To be the
person that I wanted to cater to.
01:03:27
And I just naturally existed in a space
of moving from my heart and emotion.
01:03:32
So it was easy for me to kind
of lean into that because I felt
01:03:35
like he was deserving of that.
01:03:37
So I feel like women today, if
you're dating, be who you are.
01:03:40
Again, that ties into the same, you
know, answer that devout gave you and
01:03:44
whoever is going to fall in love with
you, whoever's going to continue to
01:03:47
court, you will love you for that reason.
01:03:50
Um, and if you feel like someone is
not appreciating that, you know, Then
01:03:53
you may want to hold back or that
may just not be the person for you.
01:03:56
Jeannette Reyes: I want to make sure
she answers your, your question.
01:03:58
Are you, are you saying
doing that as a girlfriend?
01:04:01
Yes.
01:04:01
Is that in your mind?
01:04:03
Okay.
01:04:03
I did that as a girlfriend.
01:04:05
And so I think some people wonder
if I do this as a girlfriend, what
01:04:09
incentive does he have to marry me?
01:04:11
If I'm not saving anything for marriage.
01:04:14
So you see, I
01:04:14
Khadeen Ellis: gave
01:04:14
Jeannette Reyes: him a ultimatum,
01:04:16
Khadeen Ellis: like, listen, this
ain't going to happen forever.
01:04:18
Devale Ellis: She, she definitely
gave me an ultimatum, but it's
01:04:21
also your own discernment, right?
01:04:22
When people show you who they
are, believe them the first time.
01:04:26
Khadeen Ellis: Yeah.
01:04:26
Devale Ellis: Right.
01:04:27
Don't go into yourself and say, I'm going
to make this man be who I want him to be.
01:04:32
That's on you.
01:04:32
That's not on him.
01:04:33
If you're, if you're showing him wifely
qualities, he's not respecting it.
01:04:37
He doesn't appreciate it.
01:04:38
It is okay for you to say, listen, man.
01:04:41
This does not work for me and I think
it'll be better if the two of us go our
01:04:45
separate ways rather than saying I'm going
to spend the next five years training
01:04:49
him to be the husband I want him to be.
01:04:51
Exactly.
01:04:51
And
01:04:51
Khadeen Ellis: you have
to be intentional, sorry.
01:04:52
Devale Ellis: No, no, you have to be
intentional because most of the time,
01:04:56
and this isn't a woman thing because I
have homies the same thing, but I did
01:04:59
all this stuff for this girl and she
just went away and I said, bro, She's
01:05:02
been showing you since y'all were dating
that she never wanted to be a wife.
01:05:05
You kept spending money, you kept taking
her on trips, you kept buying her things.
01:05:09
Then she found somebody
else with more money.
01:05:11
And they did that and she left you.
01:05:12
That's not on her, that's on you, bro.
01:05:14
We as people have to start realizing
that people have the right to do
01:05:18
what they want to do in their lives.
01:05:20
And when they show you what
they want to do, believe them.
01:05:22
Don't try to change them.
01:05:23
Khadeen Ellis: Yep,
you have to be upfront.
01:05:24
Like, are you going to say to this
person, Hey, I aspire to be married.
01:05:28
So if we're entering into this
courtship and I want to be girlfriend
01:05:31
caring to you and doing all of this
stuff, is it with the intention
01:05:33
of us one day getting married?
01:05:35
When I said earlier, do you
aspire to marriage or do you not?
01:05:39
That's an important conversation I
think that should be had early on.
01:05:41
Devale Ellis: Now, say that again
because real talk, Kay did everything.
01:05:45
When I read all of these blogs about
what women aren't supposed to do, Kay
01:05:48
literally did all of the wrong things.
01:05:51
Kay told me she loved me in two weeks.
01:05:53
I didn't know what to say.
01:05:54
I said, thank you.
01:05:56
I was trying to be polite.
01:05:57
I wasn't trying to be rude.
01:05:59
Kay acted like my wife
from the very beginning.
01:06:02
Kay gave me an ultimatum.
01:06:03
Kay told me what her timeline was.
01:06:05
And I started, I was deliberate.
01:06:07
She was deliberate about what she wanted
and it was up to me to make the choice.
01:06:11
So it's the whole idea of playing a game
to get what you want to me doesn't work
01:06:15
Jeannette Reyes: real quick though.
01:06:16
Cause some, some guys have
said, where's the chase?
01:06:20
You're giving it all to
me and there's no mystery.
01:06:22
I know I have you.
01:06:23
I want the chase.
01:06:24
Do you agree that men want
that and that takes that away?
01:06:27
Devale Ellis: I agree.
01:06:28
I will say this.
01:06:30
A man who's looking to just chase
women are going to chase women.
01:06:34
A man who is looking to be a
husband is going to find a wife.
01:06:38
You know, I
01:06:42
honestly, no, I honestly feel this.
01:06:44
You as women, and I hate trying
to mansplain, but I will say this.
01:06:50
I watch a lot of my young female friends
and my co stars that I work with.
01:06:53
They say, DeVal, I'm looking for this guy
and he got to have this and he doesn't.
01:06:56
I said, you're chasing a
guy who's chasing women.
01:07:00
Why are you chasing a guy
who's chasing a woman?
01:07:02
Why don't you?
01:07:03
Chase a guy who's chasing a
purpose, part of that purpose.
01:07:06
If it's being a husband, he may
stop and say, wait, this is my wife.
01:07:09
But if he's chasing women, he's
always going to chase women.
01:07:12
It don't matter if you play
a game, it don't matter.
01:07:14
If you show him up front that you want to
be a wife, he's just going to chase women.
01:07:18
And he has, that's his prerogative.
01:07:19
Because the city girls been
up the last four years.
01:07:22
If I, you know what I'm saying?
01:07:24
Cause there's women out
there who are chasing men.
01:07:26
And I tell my boys the same thing,
stop being upset at her because she's
01:07:29
going for what she wants in her life.
01:07:31
Let them let that group of people do
what that group of people want to do.
01:07:35
Find your group.
01:07:39
Ramunda Young: Okay.
01:07:39
In the essence, uh, interest of time,
we're going to do one more question
01:07:43
from that end, and we'll take a couple
of minutes to transition and we'll
01:07:46
do Q up Q and a, we'll do photos.
01:07:48
We're going to do row by row under my
direction, but we'll make sure everybody
01:07:51
gets a chance, but last question, right
01:07:54
Khadeen Ellis: into listening to letters.
01:07:54
I'm sorry, we didn't get to y'all.
01:07:56
We'll talk about on the podcast.
01:07:58
Audience Member: Hi, I'm
Keon and what's up Keon?
01:08:00
What's going on, bruh?
01:08:02
Newly married and congratulations
01:08:03
Khadeen Ellis: for the
newlyweds how long now?
01:08:09
Audience Member: Shout out to my wife.
01:08:10
Best thing that ever happened to me.
01:08:11
Khadeen Ellis: I've been
married now a couple months,
01:08:16
Audience Member: five months,
01:08:17
Khadeen Ellis: five months.
01:08:17
What's up?
01:08:20
Audience Member: In that it's
been a beautiful journey.
01:08:23
So much joy.
01:08:25
but it's been like a constant
conversation with my friends,
01:08:27
particularly my guy friends around
marriage seems cool, but it's like,
01:08:31
I want to get myself together first.
01:08:32
So
01:08:33
I want
01:08:34
Audience Member: to make
sure everything's in order.
01:08:35
And it seems like that's like
a cop out in a sense, but also,
01:08:39
you know, I want to respect them.
01:08:41
How do I encourage them?
01:08:42
Because Don't, don't,
01:08:46
Devale Ellis: don't, don't, don't
encourage anybody to get married.
01:08:48
You want to know why?
01:08:49
If they get married off their
encouragement and it gets
01:08:51
messed up, they're going to
be like, you fucked me up.
01:08:55
Let them find out on their own time.
01:08:56
You lied.
01:08:57
But I know why you asked the question.
01:08:58
You asked the question because your
wife doesn't want you to hang out with
01:09:01
your friends if they're all single.
01:09:02
Right?
01:09:04
Khadeen Ellis: Is that the truth?
01:09:05
Audience Member: Nah, she cool.
01:09:05
Khadeen Ellis: She said no.
01:09:07
Even,
01:09:07
Audience Member: even to what you
just alluded to in regards to like
01:09:09
men who are chasing to be a husband.
01:09:11
Yeah.
01:09:11
But how do we encourage that more?
01:09:13
Because there's beauty in black love,
there's beauty in unity, even the
01:09:17
essence of what y'all talk about.
01:09:18
It's like we owe me the journey.
01:09:20
I think sometimes they try to like
alleviate the journey or try to like
01:09:23
run away from the journey because they
want to make sure everything's together.
01:09:26
Like what you're supposed to do.
01:09:27
Devale Ellis: I would
say this, be an example.
01:09:29
You don't have to say anything.
01:09:30
Watch them see how you treat your wife.
01:09:33
So many of my single
boys come over, right?
01:09:35
And this is the truth.
01:09:37
Cadeen will be in her bathing,
her freaking, what is it you wear?
01:09:40
The robe.
01:09:41
Hair be crazy.
01:09:42
I'm out with Jackson at the
basketball practice, right?
01:09:45
I'll come in the house.
01:09:46
She'll go in the back, put on her
shorts, the shorts she know I like.
01:09:49
She'll make sure I'm eating.
01:09:51
She'll, you know, and they'll be like, yo,
your wife really be taking care of you.
01:09:54
And I'm like, yeah, yeah.
01:09:56
And then they'll see how I
spoil her, her ways and stuff.
01:10:00
And they're like, yo, this
is actually pretty cool, bro.
01:10:02
And I don't have to say, I don't
have to beat it over their heads,
01:10:05
like marriage, marriage, marriage.
01:10:06
Just come over, come over
and watch me with my kids.
01:10:08
Oh,
01:10:09
Khadeen Ellis: that's why
you have been coming over
01:10:10
Devale Ellis: all the time?
01:10:11
Khadeen Ellis: Such and such
is coming over for dinner.
01:10:12
Make some dinner, make some dinner.
01:10:13
I
01:10:14
Devale Ellis: do, I do do that.
01:10:15
Yeah.
01:10:16
In part because I hear so many of my
friends say there ain't no good women
01:10:20
out there or women don't know how to
act and then I just, rather than trying
01:10:23
to talk them through it, I just say,
well, just come over, just come over.
01:10:27
And then they watch Kadena and they're
just like, how'd you get her to do that?
01:10:32
And I'm like, I don't get
her to do anything I do for
01:10:35
her and she reciprocates.
01:10:37
So as long as you guys don't mind
being the example, don't talk to them.
01:10:42
Cause the more you talk to them,
you know what they're going to do.
01:10:43
Wow.
01:10:45
No, just let them watch, bro.
01:10:47
And if y'all have a good loving marriage,
that's all the example they'll need.
01:10:50
Jeannette Reyes: I will say, if you're
saying marriage is great, this is amazing.
01:10:54
I would start like, is it really?
01:10:56
Are you trying to get me into something?
01:10:58
There's so much joy.
01:11:00
Right, right, right.
01:11:01
Wiping away with a tear.
01:11:02
This is just amazing.
01:11:04
I think they're, they're watching you.
01:11:06
Their friends are watching you and
they can, like them, if you radiate
01:11:11
joy and happiness, they see it.
01:11:13
Khadeen Ellis: But you also said they're
also getting themselves together too,
01:11:15
and that's a big portion of it too.
01:11:16
I think a lot of men, and you've had
that experience with even the young
01:11:19
men that you mentor and stuff, you
know, they are like, man, I really
01:11:22
want to be able to date this girl,
but I'm trying to get myself in order.
01:11:26
Right.
01:11:26
I'm trying to get my finances in order.
01:11:27
I'm trying to get my career established.
01:11:29
So they may be going through their
own process and their own journeys.
01:11:32
Show them how it goes, you
know, give them some time.
01:11:36
Audience Member: Thank you.
01:11:36
Khadeen Ellis: Yes, sir.
01:11:36
Thank you.
01:11:37
All right.
01:11:38
Ramunda Young: All right.
01:11:40
Please help me give it
up for Kadeem and Davao.
01:11:44
Thank you so
01:11:45
Khadeen Ellis: much.
01:11:46
Always so much love in DC.
01:11:48
Who had a book?
01:11:49
Let me see y'all books.
01:11:50
Yes.
01:11:54
Khadeen Ellis: Yes, sir.
01:11:55
Thank you all so, so much.
01:11:57
We heard we're on track and we're
going to prey on this and manifest
01:12:00
it to be a New York Times bestseller.
01:12:02
Audience Member: Yes.
01:12:06
Khadeen Ellis: Amen.
01:12:06
Amen.
01:12:06
Thank you for getting those hard copies.
01:12:08
We appreciate you.
01:12:08
There's always love in DC.
01:12:10
Who's come to a live podcast show?
01:12:14
I love it.
01:12:14
I love it.
01:12:15
We love, we're definitely
01:12:16
Devale Ellis: coming back.
01:12:16
We're definitely coming back.
01:12:18
He said, when she's going to be waiting
outside, you said you was coming back.
01:12:24
I need dates.
01:12:26
Jeannette Reyes: Let's give it up for
them one more time and give it up for
01:12:30
Jeanette y'all, amazing moderator.
01:12:32
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