Fire Sword & Sea by Vanessa Riley

[00:00:01] This is the Mahogany Books Podcast Network.

[00:00:33] Helps other readers discover this vibrant community, where laughter, reflection, and thoughtful wrecks make reading feel fun again. Love y'all. Mean it.

[00:00:41] We're all wearing different ones. T-R-B-G. Very T-R-B-G. We have variety.

[00:01:09] I almost put on a non-TRBG shirt today too, and I was like, still literature, still black lit related. It's the one with the- Right, true. My octave. They look like they was finna jump you. Sometimes, yeah, and I didn't like that. And sometimes we wear stuff that's not niche. I'll say it. Niche looked like she was gonna hit me. Okay.

[00:01:34] Sometimes we, sometimes we wear thing, like non-TRBG stuff to record. Do we? Maybe just plain. Yeah, sometimes I've seen someone wear a plain shirt. I feel like we wear like basics. A plain shirt. Yeah, just a plain shirt. Yeah, just like something chill, a little calm fit. Yeah, calm. Relax. Relax. Calm. Yeah, cuz I wear this like every time. So I was gonna wear something different today, but no need to do that. Habit prevailed.

[00:02:03] No need to wear anything different, sister. You're perfect just the way you are. Speaking of perfect, actually never mind. I'll just know I had a magical night last night. Okay, I'll tell you. I went to see Disney on ice. Disney on ice? Oh my God. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. Yes. Where did you go? You went to the one at CMG? We saw Frozen and Encanto. Yes. Oh my God. That Encanto is crazy. No way.

[00:02:32] Let me tell you, I put on a show. I don't know what those kids were doing, Kay. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. But I put on a show. I enjoyed the show. It was stupendous. I mean, what's it called when they've got the fireworks? The, what's that called? Like the firematronics? Y'all know the word? The pyrotechnics? Pyrotechnics. Pyrotechnics. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:03:01] The pyrotechnics were crazy. The pyrotechnics were crazy. At one point, there was one that was really loud. I did think that I had been shot in front of my wife and son. I, I thought- That's interesting. You, you specifically, Elisa. I was like- Out of that whole big boom, it was you. And I remember, I remember thinking, why me? Cause I didn't do anything. But I thought that I was shot. But aside from like that small incident. Ma-ja-cold. Cold.

[00:03:31] It was just really hard to see other people living your dreams. But it's fine. I went to Disney on ice as a child. And it was great. We saw Lion King. Oh, that's amazing. See that was my, this was my first time going. And I got a big ol' Lion King head cup that opened, because it had like the slushy in it. That was my most surprised possession. Yes, merch! From like 7 to 12. That's real? That's a long, yeah, period. That's a, that's a good quality cup probably. They did sell a warranty.

[00:04:00] Well, whenever you guys are ready to go to Disney World, you let me know. I'm ready, Kayla. Look at me in the eyes. I'm ready. Okay, cause she's been saying it. And I want her to live her dream. We know sister. She has to go at least once a year. Really twice. I wouldn't say once a year. Once every like two years. I don't have a plan to go this year actually. It's only been one month. No? So there's things may change. Once a year love? You know what it is. It's only, we still have time. We still have time.

[00:04:29] That's a good point, Nish. But speaking of time. Welcome back to the re- I'm sorry, that segway didn't make any sense. That? But we took- I really think you could've- I think you could've got it there. I didn't have enough time to like really think that through. But you know what? Speaking of time, we sat down and decided we were going to take the time- There you go. To come together and read this book and talk about it. Okay.

[00:04:56] So again, welcome back to another episode of the Reading Black Girls podcast. You know who it is. It's your four HBCU book besties. I'm Kayla. I'm Alex. I'm Nish. I'm Aziza. And welcome back. We missed y'all. So much. Every time. So many. And we know that you missed us. Like, let's be for real. Right. And honestly, if you didn't, that's okay.

[00:05:26] But just comment and let us know. Right. Why they didn't miss us? Yeah. Comments will be empty because everyone did. We talked too much. Number two. We're too silly. Number three. We get a little loud. Oh. It does get a little loud. It does get a little loud. It does get a little loud. Please mind your volume. Yeah. You may have to pronounce that a little bit. But whatever.

[00:05:56] We can't be tame. So, yes. Let's get into it. You know what? We're here to talk about books. You know exactly. We're here to talk about bookish topics. Like, you know, when you clicked the Reading Black Girls podcast, you knew it was going to be something bookish related. Okay. Okay. And today we are talking about a book by one of our favorite authors. Literally our favorite. Literally our favorite. Like one of our day one favorites. Day one. Like 20, 21. Okay. Right.

[00:06:25] Such a cutie patootie. One of our favorite his fic writing queens. Okay. When we talk about his fic and you want to talk about someone who does their research. Okay. Clock it. Sister hops on the jet to the island. Sister's going to go through the archives. Sister's going to go through the records. Multiple trips even. Maybe. Maybe. Yes. To give us the tea. Give us the most accurate truth or whatever she, I don't know. Her mind is, her mind is insane. I don't know how she'd be coming up with these stories.

[00:06:55] I don't know either. Talent. Yeah. She's so talented. The characters just speak to her. Right. Yeah. And she's so clear on her mission of spreading the history of our people. Like me. The correct history. That's something she will stand on every single time. Mm-hmm. Yes. Iconic black women. And you know what?

[00:07:19] Her niche of his fic really focuses on black women in the Caribbean, which is not an area that you see many people writing on, like, much. Right. So it's a very welcomed breath of fresh air. A new perspective. More stories. It is the incredible Vanessa Riley. Her newest book, Fire, Sword, and Sea. Mm-hmm. And- Yes.

[00:07:48] All of her books are always just so- Look at that cover. I mean- Stunning. It's so good. Wow. Stunning. Stunning. Like, you just know. Stunning. Stunning. Ugh. You know there's tea in there. I don't know. Like, you seeing these three shadowed figures? Like, what's about? Like, talk about it. Three shadowed women figures. Like, you know they're women. Yeah. Mm. She always is gonna give you some tea, too. Like, you gonna be reading it and be like, ooh. Oh. Had no clue. Right.

[00:08:17] And I'm like, yeah, there might have been some liberties taken, but I love that she takes a- But whatever. Right there. Exactly. Steeped in truth for the most part. Oh, yeah. Like, we don't know. We weren't there. It could be- It could be the complete truth. Mm-hmm. Honestly. And honestly, I like to believe that it was. Mm-hmm. You know what this- You know low-key what I was thinking of, and maybe this is too far gone, but imagine pirates of the Caribbean and set it off.

[00:08:46] A bunch of bad- Black women- Set it off? Get into the money. Okay. We're about to live it, get this adventure, we're about to get this money, but we're on a boat, we're pirates, we're pillaging. That is perfect. And we're also- Kayla. Freeing enslaved people along the way. Yes. Any chance- Like, we have morals. Any chance they got, they was trying to- Mm-hmm. Yeah. And they were like, we're not participating in the slave trade. Set it off, mixed with pirates of the Caribbean.

[00:09:17] Kayla. That's good. It's good. It feels good. It feels accurate. And it all doesn't end the same way as both movies either. It has like a completely different type of ending. But like, still very good. But that's the vibe. Very much. That's the vibe, y'all. Period. Mm-hmm. I just kept- So- No, go ahead. Oh, I was like, I just kept thinking of the background music to pirates of the Caribbean. That's the vibe that they were being the whole time. Literally-

[00:09:48] Every time. Because they were sailing them high seas. Okay. Yeah. And then some. From Tortuga to Jamaica, to Tortuga to Jamaica, to Hispaniola to da da da da da da. I like to pull out the map so many times. I'm like, Tortuga. Hold on. Yeah. Hold on. We're not on that map. Then we're going to Port Royale. Okay. Uh-huh. The masses, they're still there. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Different names.

[00:10:17] The names change. The names change. The names change. Right. I'm going to be honest. I can't remember. I don't think we had a specific reason for choosing this book. We just love some Vanessa Riley. Right. That was it. That was it. We just love her. We met her in person a couple months ago. And like, she was already like, either finishing this book or like, like, already finished. And she was like, giving us a little merch about it. And we were just like, no, we definitely need to read Fire, Sword, and Sea. Like, we got to give her her moment.

[00:10:46] Never really read anything like this. Right. Like, let's get into it. I thought it was good. Did you guys, was like the reality different than the expectation before you started or like after you finished? I'm going to be honest. I ain't know what to expect. I'm like, pirates. I kind of went in. Right. Pirates? You know I went wrong. Buccaneers. Buccaneers. Filibusters. Filibusters? It was the vocab. It was the vocab. I loved it. I kept having to pull up my phone like, hold on. Let me look.

[00:11:15] Let me look up what that means. Because I remember in like, government, history and government, filibuster in like, you know, like, government spaces. Right. And I was like, oh, filibuster. Like, that's where they got that word from. From like, the original filibuster, which is like a pirate. Yes. Yes. That's crazy. Sorry. I was like, what is a fourth rate ship? No, for real. Because I was like, oh, which level is? What is a frigate?

[00:11:45] It says, hmm. Compared to, I was trying to use context clues to figure it out. But I was like. But I needed a direct, I would look it up. Are we real in it? How many people can fit in it? Right. Like, I'm sorry. She had us looking so much. I'm like, how many cannons? Oh. Right. Right. Oh, the cannons have different weights? Oh. Huh. And you know what? That makes sense. Because you can't have 50, 11 cannons on your ship because you're going to be at the bottom of the ocean. I'm weak.

[00:12:15] It is going to sink. It is going to sink. It is going to sink. It is going to sink. And I'm trying to think of all the other pirate ships you can. I just feel like I saw these very weighty, you know, pieces of furniture on every pirate ship we saw.

[00:12:45] Like y'all were moving mad slow. Like y'all got the whole bed frame in here. And honestly. Everybody in hammocks. Like, if you were going to be a pirate, you would want less on your ship because isn't your goal to go and get all the gold and stuff in the ocean? Get to as much as you can. Yes. Yeah. And outrunning the police and people coming after you? Like, literally. Literally just sea bandits.

[00:13:10] And I don't know why in my mind, like, I feel like I never had a, I never really thought about pirates, but I'm like, no, you're literally robbing people at gunpoint and running. Like you're robbing the Spanish armada. Yeah. You're robbing the French. You're robbing the English. Maybe the Dutch too. On the wild open sea. And you're giddy. Yeah. Like that's crazy. Which is crazy. Cause robbing anyone at any point is already insane.

[00:13:38] But then going and doing it on the water. Right. In the 1600s. It's crazy. And like betting on the fact that you'll get away. Yes. Yes. That's the big thing. That takes, that takes some real. Yeah. We're not going to get caught. Cause if we do, they're going to kill us. Absolutely. And they were just always down to take that risk. They were just like, yeah, I'll be back in three months. Maybe. They said, I got to get this money. Got to get this money by tomorrow. Chasing a bag. Chasing a bag. Right.

[00:14:07] They said, love you family. The C's are calling me. See you in a year or two. Or two. Maybe. Which was crazy risky. I mean, for real. I'm like, I don't know what I was thinking. I really haven't thought about pirates, but I'm like, this is insane. Why not? Especially Jaquette. Like you never really thought about it. I didn't think about them. I don't frequently. Even in the 2000s with the whole Pirates of the Caribbean. I would just watch them. I would watch those movies, but I don't think I was like there.

[00:14:35] Like mentally nothing was happening. Like you never even thought of the black lady from Pirates of the Caribbean. Calypso. And she was like Jack Sparrow. Like she, and she was with the. That's good Alex. That's good. That's good. Baby Joan. She was my, she was my favorite character from all those movies. She's so good. I always wanted more backstory from her because she turned into the cracking at the end. And it was like, girl, where did that come from? What was that about? It was kind of giving a pirate version of like Medusa. I don't know. I just know my girl was wronged.

[00:15:05] Yeah. Right. She deserved a lot more. That's all I'm going to say. Mm-hmm. Oh. Yeah. And that's tea. Mm-hmm. Because hello, a black woman. And then a black woman back then. A black woman back then on a boat. But she was also mulatto. Right. Yes. That was a very interesting dynamic of all these different peoples, all these different peoples mixing in these islands, the indigenous, the French, the Spanish. Yeah.

[00:15:33] The Blancs, the great Blancs. It was probably more common than what was recorded. Probably. Because you know they came out of town. With somebody. And you know they were wiping stuff out. Especially because a lot of these women were, well maybe it's not fair to say a lot, but from fire, sword, and sea alone, the women were disguising themselves as men. All that was fire. Because it was a crime to be, which I mean. A woman on a, mm-hmm. Yes. Come on! Like.

[00:16:03] They literally thought it was bad with a woman. Exactly. And they said, if you bring a woman on this ship, you're going to be marooned. You listen here. You're going to be marooned. Yeah. And they find out that there were women on this ship. Several. Several. Several. Crazy. It was just, the women who wanted to do that. That's why I infiltrated it. The women who wanted to be like on those ships. They were like. They yearned in adventure. They didn't have a lot of options living on those islands. Like it was either being enslaved. A wench. A wench. Being a wench. Enslaved. Or being married. Or being married.

[00:16:34] And you waiting on them to come home. That was it. And you waiting on them to come back. He didn't go home anyway. Right. Even you SOL. That was kind of it. Like. Yeah. Or become a pirate. It's like, yeah, I'll just become a pirate. Why would I not just do that? I hate that that's like the most. Nah. That was like the best option. Nah, I don't want those other options. Right. Hit the seas. Get this money. Possibly die. Or be a wife and mother. To a man I hate. I'll take my chances with the sea.

[00:17:04] Right. Because they were like being enslaved. That's gonna equal death. Right. Wife and mother. Might as well kill myself. Right. I'll take the pirate. Right. Like. I was not interested in that. At least from Jaquette's point of view. Sis was not here for that. Like. At all. I'm sorry. Actively avoiding it. What was y'all's first. Like. Let me not even say that. Not even first impression. I don't want to know that.

[00:17:31] When she pulled back up after she had married old dude. Michelle. And pulled up and talked about something. I claim him. What. Just tell me. What was your face? Because my jaw. Was on the floor. Yeah. Girl, your daddy gonna beat you. I was like. And then I was like. That kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Because. Yeah. I ate that up. She said I'm gonna do what I want. I liked that decision. She was trying to make the life that she wanted. And ain't nobody was gonna make it for her.

[00:18:01] Her life was Ikea choose your own adventure quest. Like. It was. She was doing anything. What was I doing? She wasn't trying to be stuck. She was stuck waiting on. She wasn't. Waiting for her. Her pair. Right. Apple. And she was doing what she wanted. From jump. Impressions. But like. Just so early on in the story. I was like. Yeah. I'm with it. I'm. In this book. She was literally walking around. In this book. With.

[00:18:31] A damn sword. Most of her life. Her mom. Not a sword. A rapier. Oh sorry. Right. Yeah. It wasn't a sword. And will. And be like. What did you say? On guard. My bad girl. Yeah. She would just have it at someone's throat. She would just slap you so quickly. So quickly. So quick. Cause yeah. Yeah. Don't play with a. Don't play with a. Right. Take her seriously. Yeah. Stab first.

[00:19:01] Ask later. I like that Kayla. Someone write that down. Cause that was definitely. Her vibe. She said. Very much so. That was present throughout. Okay. Jacquez was definitely. That type of girl. Yeah. It actually. It escalated. Because she started doing that. As soon as she basically. Took the sword. Or the rapier from her father. Literally. Cause he was like. This isn't yours. It's for. My son. And she was like. Your mute son. Your son. Who is always gonna need our support.

[00:19:31] Josiah. Josiah. She said yeah. Give me that. Thank you. It's mine. Yeah. Yeah. I'll take that. There was so. I think the other great thing about this book. Not only. We learning about like. Jaquette. But all of the interesting people that she comes into contact with. Sarah. Her next door neighbor. And. She rescues. From.

[00:20:00] It was a prison. Right? Like these were women who were gonna be sold. Mm hmm. Yeah. All of the other sailors. And you know. I just. This old Jean. Wait. Can we just talk about. Her little side quest. That began. With her setting free. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She was gonna be. It's what was she 12 or 13. No. I mean. She was gonna be married. She was young. She was like 14 or 15. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:20:30] And she went ahead and she was like well. If I'm gonna be a married off anyway. She's like. Might as well. Might as well. And she literally said that. Went and did it. And was successful. I was so impressed with her. Yeah. Like she was really a. Massive finesse. I'm gonna do it anyways. Yeah. That was the spirit of her mother. She said my mother. Very much. And so am I. This is. That's what she was born into. She was raised like that. So am I. Exactly. I'm.

[00:20:58] You know her living manifestation. Like. I'm gonna do it. And she literally couldn't stand by it. She would see slavery. So many times throughout her life. Yeah. And it pissed her off every time. So bad. Make her blood boil. I gotta fix this. Every time she like saw it. She just didn't like sail away all the time. Like she really was like. Yeah. Devising a plan. How are we gonna get them out? And then like. Yes. Succeeding like you said. In like some crazy. She would just do the crazy stuff. And get out. Very T. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:28] With her rapier. They would barely even know. What hit him before. She was on her way. She's like. Right. Because even when they let the women out. There. And they were like. A ghost. An apparition freed us. And they were like. Y'all are drunk. You don't know what you're talking about. An apparition. And meanwhile. He's over in the corner. Like. Yes. Got him. And then for her to have set free. One of those women.

[00:21:57] And I think it was. Yeah. Um. And. Her girl. You know. Her coming back. Like all the way at the end of the book. And Anne was able to. Kind of live both lives. Like she was able to get on a ship. And go be a buccaneer. But also. She became a wife. A wife and mother. And a mother. And then a widow. And then. A married woman again. And then a wife again. Right. Yeah. With a boyfriend. Yeah. But I think it's. Four months. So interesting. Also like. The changing political dynamics.

[00:22:27] Yeah. That happened throughout the book. You're like. You never know. What's gonna happen. Like they really had to keep their head on the swivel. Yeah. And there's no phone. You in the middle of the ocean. Like there ain't no. You can't get no letter. How did they. Like they would have to come on land. Have to figure it out. Like piece together. Who's in charge. Right. Or it's by word of mouth. Yeah. Like oh yeah. You didn't hear. Yeah. This governor died over here in a. Curacao. The governor of Jamaica. Dead too. Yeah. Or this governor trying to take all the riches from over here. Like.

[00:22:58] Information was really power. Like. The trading and secrets. Yes. Was like. Ooh. That's really important. And you never know how old the information is. That's the crazy part. You're hearing something for the first time. Right. And it could have happened. Yeah. Months ago. But that's the only intel you have. Months ago. Okay. Well. I'ma use it. Like it was very. Interesting. But I have to ask y'all. What was like your. Biggest.

[00:23:28] Surprise. Or let down if you had one. But like what was like your biggest surprise. Or if you choose one. Cause there was. There's a lot going on in this book. Couple surprises. Yeah. I had a. Yeah. I had a couple. Go ahead. And my biggest surprise. My biggest surprise. Was her. Second lover. That she did. Because. Because like. Not that I was. Okay. Okay. Okay. Let's. So I. Yeah.

[00:23:58] Is that how you say her name? Cause I was like Lizzo. Lizzo. You said Lizzo. Lizzo. Oh. Not Lizzo. No. No, no, no, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. Lizzo. And I was like, I'll let them tell me how to say it. Lizzo. Lizzo. With like a French. Oh, that's so beautiful. That's very. That's very beautiful. I definitely recommend listening to the book. Yeah. Because of all the different languages going on. Like. Yes. And the way the names were said.

[00:24:27] Like. Even her name. Yeah. Shout out that narrator. Yeah. She was excellent. Realistically. There's like many different languages being spoken. Mm-hmm. So they're like. I'm making them speak in English, but just know. It's a lot going on. It's a lot more complex than this. Mm-hmm. They would have had to definitely been able to translate or have a translator handy. And they did. Lizzo. They were. Who spoke multiple languages. Exactly. Lizzo. She was a clutch character.

[00:24:58] Yeah. She was. Was tea. Like, I'm sorry. Very tea. She was living with her lady lavish life. Yes. Mm-hmm. When they got in their bed together. And she said. And I. The waistband was moved. I said. The robe fell. Oh. She said. Let me love you. We're getting a little trans representation. I'm sorry. I was like. Vanessa. This is why we love you.

[00:25:26] Because she's not afraid to take it there. Mm-hmm. That's true. Because. They have. Like. I just. You don't see that a lot. People have always existed. Exactly. Right. Exactly. And. It's always one of those things where they try and erase that. And make it. Mm-hmm. Like. That was never a thing. When. Let's be serious. Yeah. Always. Literally. So. I really. I appreciated that. So. I texted. I texted Z. And I was like. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

[00:25:56] It's right. The exciting. So. That was. The biggest surprise. I guess. But. Good surprise. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. I just thought it was like. That was a good surprise. Let's. Let's get different perspectives here. Like. It's. Okay. It's nice to have a. A lot of different things going on. Like. We also have. Some. And I was just like disappointed. At. Josiah's ending. Me. That's exactly. That was.

[00:26:26] That was the thing that disappointed me the most. I'm just like. I was disappointed every time she pulled up to this monastery. Just saying yeah. And was just. Like. Trying to. Trying to connect with him. But I'm like. You weren't really trying that hard. I'm sorry. Jaquette was not trying that hard. She would jingle a little silver. She's like. Let me in. You're my donation. Let me see my brother. Let me see my brother. And she would be like. Oh man. No. They don't. He doesn't want to see you. Back to the seas. I'll try again.

[00:26:55] I'll try again in a year. Like girl. If you don't bust your way up in there. Use your way you would. And to find out. And to find out. He wasn't even really in. That made me so sad. Yeah. I was really sad. I'm like. What do you mean. He was sold away a few years ago. Like. Yeah. They were like. Oh. Back in 87. You mean the little enslaved boy. The hat. The halfwit. Yeah. He wasn't good for anything but that. They sold him back in 87. Huh. She said.

[00:27:25] And honestly. I. Get her reaction. Cause she immediately burned that place down. Yeah. And they were like. Well. You should be proud. Look at what your money's built. Yeah. And guess what. I'm about to take all that back. I'm burning down. Period. Cause I didn't give that money to you. I gave that money for Josiah. Exactly. This whole time. And y'all were in here lying. To my face. Every single time I pulled up to see him. When let me see him. Yep. Yeah. And then at the end of the day.

[00:27:51] The fact that he was sold into slavery. Yes. And that she really never saw him again. Yeah. Honestly. She should have burned the whole. The whole port down. Yeah. That broke my heart. Like that. I think that was. That was. The most like disappointment. Cause I was like. Oh my gosh. Like Jaquette got to live her dream. Yeah. She's reunited. With. Her former husband. Like they're gonna take her brother. And they're gonna. Nope. I thought that maybe she would. Go after him.

[00:28:21] Because it just seemed like. Within her character. Yeah. But I don't know if it was because she like. She didn't have any leads. Or she knew that it would just like. She would have no way of knowing like where he went. Right. But I was. Or if he even survived. Right. That's. If he even survived the trip. So. Yeah. That was. That was disappointing. That was a big. That was a big let down. That's a good point. I definitely agree. I kept thinking. My other big. Because she kept putting off going to see him till the end. And I'm thinking. Yeah. Actually. Because what do you mean. You'll actually be there.

[00:28:54] You know. And she was receiving those correspondences. Like. I guess. She just put a little bit too much. Faith. You know. This religious man. And also. Lizzoa. Lizzoa set that up. Like. Yeah. True. If she was still alive. She probably would have had more of a. And she was going through grief of losing her. Throughout the whole time too. If she was still alive. They would have. They would have been. They would have been back. Yeah. They would have been back years ago. Yeah. They would have been back years ago. And then probably got him. And it would have. So.

[00:29:24] I know she. Yeah. It was. And I was so sad about Lizzoa. R.I.P. Like. Yeah. We lost some. We lost some good people. We lost some good people. We lost some good people. I forgot. The person who. Declan. Who forgot about the cannon. You. You're done. Dead. You're dead. You're dead. You're dead. There were so many people. I was like. Stab him. Maroon him. Get out of here. Set him to the brink.

[00:29:54] Right. You. There were. Ugh. There were some very interesting characters. Like you really had some snakes in the grass in here. Mm-hmm. You had some solid people like Bahardi. Mm-hmm. But. Yeah. They were. I. I would just think back to like a letdown. I couldn't believe that they had like killed. Well. Initially we thought that they had killed off Michel. Honestly. I was. I. I thought he was dead. Until. I didn't. I was like.

[00:30:24] I didn't think he was dead either. He'll be back. Like I didn't think he was dead cause I was like he wouldn't have just. Left. Left. I. Literally only lost hope. When. Her. Um. And Lizzo. Got together. I was like. So. So they're not bringing back Michel. Not. Not because like I wanted them to just be together. Cause it was literally like. One week. When she was a girl. But. I was like. Once. Yeah. There's just no way. Seven days in June. Literally. I was like. It was just.

[00:30:53] Just one time. That's it. But I. So him coming back. And the way that he did like. He had lost his eyesight. Because he was actually. Having some integrity. And wasn't going to kill off his crew. I thought that was. Interesting. The fact that it wasn't. It wasn't the same with them. Like she was like. I just want to be friends. Like missed you. Just want to be friends. She's like. I'll have someone warm my bed. She's like this ring. I wear that for. Not for you. Now.

[00:31:23] Yeah. That was. She. I don't know. She was just such an interesting character. She had so much. Yep. She stuck to her guns. So many layers. Like. She was a woman. Her morals. When she stuck to something. That did not change. Ever. She stood on business. Okay. Especially like with Captain. Uh. Smith. Yes. When he was like. You. Oh actually. That was another really big. Surprise. I had. When her crew members.

[00:31:52] Stood behind her. When. Um. Captain Smith was like. A woman. Yeah. Maroon her. Wait. Wait. I voted on things before. She saved my life. Multiple times. Yes. She's been about the ship. She's been steering the ship. She's been taking. They're like. I don't know. She's your best fighter. Literally. Forget the boat. Maroon her. And. We're going to go. Get into the slave trade. Even though I said. We're not going to. But then in the same breath. She has no integrity.

[00:32:21] She's a liar. We can't trust her. She doesn't have integrity. Look at yourself. He couldn't. And that's why they were like. It's fine. Get rid of him. Exactly. Get rid of him. Throw him overboard. That's literally what they said. Literally. I was very pleasantly surprised. And then voted her into being captain. I was. And was captain for years. Years. Pleasantly surprised. I'm like a black woman captain.

[00:32:50] A black woman captain. Of a pirate frigate. In the 1600s. How cool. How cool. Like. You know we would have been on that ship ASAP. We would have been on that ship. Been on that crew in a minute. Like she didn't have to convince us. Aye aye captain. Right. I guess. Let's do this. At least we know we see. Yeah. And then she was like. Everybody else. Reveal yourselves. We don't have to hide anymore. Live in your truth. Live in your truth.

[00:33:20] But I also appreciate that like. After that like initial like. Hey live in your truth. It wasn't like the focus. It wasn't like. We're women and we're on board. It was like. No we're all crew members. We're crew members. Yep. We're just. We're here to get the money. We here for the big. And like we have dreams. We have hopes. We're trying to send money back to our families. Like. Yep. And with such a risky. Risky career. Like I do appreciate them continuing. Over and over and over to say.

[00:33:49] This is a risky job. Because we're in this for the adventure. We rob people for living. It is what it is. Like. This is risky. And they lost so many good. Mm hmm. People. And had to. I think it was Bahardi. Who told. Um. Jacote when she lost. Lizzoa. Like hey. Get it together. She's not the only person. We lost. You have to be. You have to be. You have. Like you're our helmsman. Like you have to. Yeah. It was.

[00:34:18] Bahardi wasn't messing around. No. She wasn't. She wasn't. But. Very strict. You need that though. When you're doing something. Yeah. So dangerous and risky like that. Like eyes on the prize. Yeah. We can mourn. When we get to the tavern. Hello. Yeah. Right. Right. Look at that north star. Shout out Bahardi. So. I love a good story. That follows someone.

[00:34:47] Like from different stages of life. And it just. Seeing her from girlhood. To. Rise to being a captain. Because you also have to think like. For a lot of. Formerly. Enslaved people. Or people. Who escaped. Slavery. Being a pirate was. Probably one of the ways. To kind of lift yourself up. Like get some money. Get some wealth for yourself. And establish yourself. So it makes sense. That. There would be a lot of. Black people who would be pirates.

[00:35:16] Or would be willing to take the risk. Because it's like. What else do I have to lose? Never. I'm gonna make the most of this. You know what I'm saying? So. Mm-hmm. That's why I'm like. I never thought about pirates. But it makes sense that a lot of them were black. It makes sense. I mean. Yes. Yes. Like the cowboys. Right. Yeah. That's a good point. That's a good point. Talk about it. I think it was in the author's note. She was like. A lot of pirates have been shown to us in media. As like. Oh.

[00:35:46] These white men. Sailing the seas. Right. And it's like. That's. That may have been the case for a few. But. That was not the reality. And it makes sense. Because why would it be? Why would you. Go pillage. Another place. For the fun of it. Like. Like. They were. Already doing that. But like. That was. They didn't need to. You didn't need to. They didn't need to stand into that industry. Right. Because they already had to. Right.

[00:36:16] That was pretty lucrative. Right. They were far. Far better. On land. Okay. True. So. I'm like. I appreciated that. And Vanessa Riley always does fantastic author's notes at the end. Yes. To like. Give more context about. Around certain characters. Or certain choices she made. Yeah. But I was like. Yeah. So I'm glad you brought that up Nisha. About the Cowboys. Because I didn't. Think about that. But. Yeah. They. They. Were minding their white business.

[00:36:45] As they should have. I mean. They were. I mean. They were. Thieving. Thieving people. Thieving money. So I'm like. It was. Yeah. They were busy elsewhere. And I felt like. I felt like. Um. Vanessa used. Michelle. As the character. To like. Explore that. With like. White. And filibusters. Cause like. He. How he lost his vision. And like. That whole. Sorted tale. Of like. Why he didn't come back. He was like. He had to either choose like. Who to kill first.

[00:37:15] Or like. To sacrifice. But he. Did learn his lesson at the end. He's like. I shouldn't even been doing that. In the first place. But. Here I am now. Yeah. Yeah. He was being greedy. Yes. He was. But I have. A beautiful wife at home. And you just left. And you had money. After a week. After a week. Now mind you. You probably couldn't use the riches. But. But that's not the point. Right. Rich. Rich. He really did sit on that. Like. Really had. Treasure.

[00:37:45] Had a wife. And all that. And then. It wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. It wasn't enough. So he also had that privilege. Yeah. That's the only reason why he survived. For real. Honestly. Him that. Him that. Him that. Him that. His bell. Yeah. His bell. Once it. His bell. Like. I'm sorry. That narrator. So T. Like that. She was. So good. French was so good.

[00:38:15] Like it's so good. It was a lot. I had to slow it down. I can't hold you. Yeah. Like what speed was your audio book at? Real talk. Man. I was at 1.5. I usually start at. Oh I kept her at 1.5. I feel like we all usually be like at a cool 1.8. 1.9 too. 1.9. But I had to. I had to. When I put it at 1.5. Yeah. I said this is taking too long. Let me pick up this book. Right. Because I'm like. You can read faster than listening. I can read a little bit faster. You can read faster. Because I'm sitting there listening and I'm like.

[00:38:45] She is pronouncing the hell out of these words. Right. Because now I'm trying to pronounce them while I'm reading and it's not the same. It's not the same. I know. I was practicing. I was practicing. I like to say. Lizo. I didn't even kid myself. Lizo. Lizo them. Lizo. Joc. De la who? De la yee. Yeah. De la yee. De la yee. And then when I saw the spelling I was like. De la hey. Oh that makes sense.

[00:39:13] I would have never gotten it had I not listened to it. Right. Jaquette. De la hey. That's how it's spelled. Oh. Kayla. That's how it's spelled. God almighty. I was like. They gonna tell me how to say it. I know this is wrong but. They gonna tell me. The girls gonna get me right. They gonna tell me. Girl. Did we have any lines that stood out? I have one thing that I really liked. And it's not a line. It's just a thing that she did that I loved.

[00:39:41] It was her putting fire, sword and sea in the book. I knew it. As soon as I heard that I was like. Those were her. Love that. Those were her pillars. That was Jaquette's pillars. Like. Fire, sword and sea. That is what she lived and like fought and died. Mm-hmm. Correct. Correct. That was her pillars. That was everything to her. That was tea. Yeah. I just love when authors do that. That's like my favorite thing. And it. And she did it where it's not like a weird like. You're like. Ugh. Why'd you do that? Like uh.

[00:40:11] It made sense. Absolutely made sense. I liked how she. So many things were on fire. She carried that sword and she was on the sea. Yeah. She included fire a lot. And she really spoke about it every time she lost someone to fire. Yeah. And I did like at the end how she burned the monastery down for Josiah. And it was like that was the first fire she set to like have her own justice. Yeah. Rather than have them like. Do it for her. Like I don't know I liked how she took power in that. And used it. Yeah. Sister.

[00:40:40] She lost. Losing. You know. She lost everyone. Your mother dying. To fire. Your father dying in a fire. Yes. One of your best friends. Also dying. Like it was. It was a lot. Your lover. You come back to the. To the hammock. And she's ashes. And she's also died by fire. Because of the laudanum that she gave her. No. Cause she was. Like. Man. That was. She couldn't wake up. She couldn't get out fast enough. That was right. When they said that cannon went through the ship. I was like oh lord. Liza.

[00:41:16] Does anyone else hear anything? No. No. Oh there she is. She's back. And then the mic disconnected. I had to read. Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah. You're good. You're good. What were you saying sister? When they said. I don't remember. Okay. Okay. You were saying when they. Oh. Okay. Cut this. I do. Have. I do have. I do have some quotables.

[00:41:45] I was actually trying to write some stuff down. I have a few. One. Jacote said. When will I learn to stop asking permission for the future I want? Mm. Stamp that. Stamp that. Mars. I said. You know what she said? She said. I need to take my own advice. I ain't asking for a damn thing. She said actually. She said actually yeah. Now's the last time. Yeah. This is the last time that I asked. Um. And what was she like 14? Yeah. Right. That was early on in the book. Like she was like. From a young age.

[00:42:14] She knew who she was. Yeah. And she figured out like oh I don't have to ask permission. I can actually do what I want. And. Cause my mom said what she wanted. And I'm my mama's daughter. I've been doing what I want. I love that she channeled her mom. Like she was like. My mama did this so I'ma do that. She channeled her mom the whole time. My mom. My mom did what she wants so I'ma do what I want. My mom was a little greater so I'ma do what I want. Do y'all remember her mom's name? Yeah. That's one character name I forgot. Uzamaka. Uzo. Uzo. Uzamaka. Uzamaka.

[00:42:44] Uzamaka. Uzamaka. I couldn't spell that for you. Shout out. Uzamaka. Shout out. Powerful. I had the spirit of Uzamaka. Very much the blueprint. The whole time. I love how she kept her alive. Yeah. Like that's how you keep somebody's memory alive. Yes. Like the way she was doing it. Yeah. Another quotable I had was. I think this was from Lee Zoa. He wanted all of my time. That is being owned by someone. Nobody owns me. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:43:13] Someone wanting all your time. That's going to be a no for me dog. Cause get on my face. Like. Right. Get out of my face. Why are you so obsessed with me? Why are you so obsessed with me? I want to know. It's a good song. Because yeah. Get up out of my face. So love that. And then logic is a woman's weapon. I was like. I'm real. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ate that right. Vanessa was. She was spitting. I had to write it down. I had to write it down.

[00:43:43] Yeah. Yeah. So those were some of my like. Yeah. Fabulous. Favorite quotables from this book. So good. Shout out. So good. Okay. So. What are our. What are. I mean. I feel like. I don't know. Let's see. What are our. Ratings. What do we rate this book? Let's see. Kayla. Go. I'd give it like a 4.25. Thoroughly enjoyed it. She loves a point something.

[00:44:13] I do. Because. There's nuance. There's nuance to the point. I'm not mad at it. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Learned a lot about something. I had no idea. Like. Like I said. Pirates. That's what the. I ain't think about no pirates. Um. And I just love Jaquette. I love Jaquette. I love her story. I love. Jaquette. Jaquette. Jaquette. Jaquette. Jaquette. No it's Jaquette. Jaquette. Yeah. Her nickname is Jaquette. My bad Miss Pirate Lady. Sorry. Yeah.

[00:44:43] Don't make her whip out her rapier. Right. Let me. Let me. Let me. Let me get my act together. Cause she real strict. But yeah. No. Such an entertaining read. Especially if you're looking to. Like a little bit of unknown. Caribbean history. A little. You know. Mm hmm. Black lady pirate. Getting that money. Yeah. Okay. Alex.

[00:45:11] I gave it a like four ish out of five too. I did feel like. Vanessa. Took a lot. To say. A little sometimes. And that may just be. Setting the tone. Like. That's a personal thing for me. But. Um. I still thought the story was pretty good. And. It was exciting. I felt like it could have been like. Wrapped up a little. Differently. It. That's just personal reasons. Like I said. Josiah. That. Really hurt me.

[00:45:41] But yeah. Like four ish out of five. Okay. Justice for Josiah. I know he was deaf. But dang. Josiah. Deaf and mute. He couldn't even say. He couldn't even say nothing. He couldn't even say nothing. That boy was not deaf. That boy was not deaf. They said he was partially deaf. Oh. I thought he was partially deaf and mute. I thought so too. I knew he was mute. No. I guess. I erased. I erased the partial. Because the um.

[00:46:11] Um. Umbilical cord was wrapped around his neck. When he was born. Yeah. And I thought when they were younger. So birth disability. Jacot would like talk to him. And he wouldn't turn around. Yeah. And he would like just walk off. Right. Like he didn't hear anything. He would just walk off sometimes. I thought that was just him ignoring her. Okay. I mean honestly. That makes more. We wouldn't know. Because he never said it were. We wouldn't know. True. This was all. Okay. So maybe you know. My bad. Partially deaf. Okay. And mute. I focus more on the muteness.

[00:46:41] Oh yeah. Sorry. I'm sorry. Still. Justice for Josiah. Yeah. Oh. Oh. This was a five star read for me. This was a five star read. The ending. Tell us why. But in a French accent. Because I just feel like. The whole time. Here we go. This is. This is fine. The ending. Josiah. He's. How he was treated. Made me quite sad. Um. However. That is just the life of a pirate. And. Jequot.

[00:47:12] It showed her fallacies. She was human. She made some poor choices. She was a girl. Who was left with nothing but responsibilities. Um. And lost love. So I give this book a five. Like. Uh. I saw nothing wrong with it. She did her best. You know. She lived her dreams. She tried to care for her brother. But um. It is what it is. Right. It is. Wow. That was incredible. That was fantastic Aziza. Thank you. I mean.

[00:47:40] They could have put you in the book. In the audio book. You could be married in the book. Wow. Oh man. Fantastic. Wow. I'm screwing. I don't know if I've ever heard you speak in a French accent like that for so long. For so long. You haven't heard Aziza talk in a French accent? Because she'll do a one liner. Not for a long. Yeah. I've never done it that long. Wow. Because you know I usually just sing in French for that. She's an asshole. Yeah. But. Wow. Oh wow. Glad y'all enjoyed. What did you give it Nish?

[00:48:10] Well I would give it a 4.5. I do think that like for me the pacing sometimes was a little slow but you know that's because I want stuff blowing up. Right. And stuff to happen at every moment. So intense. And that's just a personal thing. But I loved learning about Jaquette. This was definitely something different for like historical fiction. Yes. I don't think we've ever read a story that centered around any type of piracy.

[00:48:40] We haven't. I know. I enjoyed this and it really made me like. I don't know. I kind of want to. I might have a side quest. I might have a side quest loading. Wait. There's another book about Jaquette. The Ballad of Jaquette. I know exactly what. You know that book you're talking about. Yeah. But also we've read a Beverly Jenkins book. I think I read that one. The Ballad of Jaquette Dallee. And captured by Beverly Jenkins. We've read a Beverly Jenkins book. Captured. Yeah. So we have read a slight. We have.

[00:49:09] But it didn't have this emphasis at all. I don't think I've read Captured. But it wasn't. Captured is good. That is the Levesque brothers. Yeah. That's a good one. Oh, hold on, hold on, hold on. And we love the Levesque brothers over here. Let me see. Let me see. Let me see. Let me see. Get on that. Shout out Beverly Jenkins. Shout out Beverly Jenkins. We love you, girl.

[00:49:39] We love you so much. Like talking about pirates and cowboys. Right. And they've got it all. And do. That pin. Immaculate. Immaculate. So I guess the Ballad of Jaquette Dallee. Dallee. Would be like a, in the same genre. Absolutely the same person. Or, yeah. I'd be interested to see how it differs. Like how they. It does differ.

[00:50:06] I remember the character of Lizzoa and differently. I don't think they were trans in this book. I think they were just sapphic lovers. Okay. Oh, they may. Oh. Interest. And I mean, maybe they just didn't get into her character enough to find out that she was trans, but I don't know. Okay. I just remember her being a woman. Period. I love that. All right. Okay. Side quest. At some point. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Love a good side quest.

[00:50:36] Y'all know I love a side quest. Um. Well. Well. So guys, would you recommend this book? Yes. Oh, for sure. Absolutely. For sure. For sure. Yeah. If any of those, like if we have to tag it. Mm-hmm. Black woman. Piracy. Anti-slavery. Caribbean his fic. Caribbean his fic. Mm-hmm. Um. Male Dell. Uh. UIA representation. Yeah. Yes. Queer and trans representation. Yeah.

[00:51:05] If any of that sounds appealing, definitely, definitely pick this book up. Yeah. Mm. Good read. Not real. Good read. We did a good pick. Yeah, that was a solid one. I mean, when it comes to Vanessa, you're always gonna get- You're in good hands. You're in good hands. You're always gonna get what you need. Mm-hmm. Okay. So, her other titles, if you have not read any other Vanessa Riley books, her stories

[00:51:32] do always center black women and they're always these strong, just like warrior-esque women. Yeah. Especially the Hispanic. They're extremely, very, extremely clever. Yeah. They find there's always like a love element and she always makes that like such a tender exploration. I love that. Mm-hmm.

[00:51:56] Which they need because they're always fighting for their right to be who they are and live their lives against, going against the status quo of society at the time. So you really cannot go wrong with any Vanessa Riley book that you pick up. You are going to enjoy yourself. Yes. And she has a wide variety of his fic, like not only the Caribbean his fic, but she's also got her Regency era. That's true. Yeah, she does. She's got the mystery. She's got the romances.

[00:52:24] You know, like several different series. So if you're like, well, let me see what else to get into, baby. She's got a little catalog for you. Mm-hmm. Well. Love our girl Vanessa. Thank you also. Yes. Shout out. For joining us. Yes. That's all we got, baby. Yes. Go check out Vanessa Riley. Go check out Fire Sword and see. Yes. Um, we thank you for joining us.

[00:52:50] And of course, you can always find our podcast anywhere that you get your podcast. Um, Mahogany Books Network, um, Podcast Network, and Apple Music or Apple, Apple Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Spotify, all the things. All the things. All the things.

[00:53:08] All the things. Gotcha. All right, y'all. Till next time. We love y'all. See you later. Bye. Bye. Bye.