Empowering Young Readers: Nick Brooks Discusses 'Up in Smoke'

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My name is Derek Young. I am one of the owners of Mahogany Books. I am a from here, from Southeast dc. This is my. Thank you. This is my home library, I grew up in this area and this is the library I used to come to all the time to do my studies, to hang out, to read books. So I'm super excited to come here when we have these events because one, this is the place that helped to form my love for reading and for books. And number two, the fact that we get to come back here and provide the same experience for other people, for other kids, for other individuals about books that connect with them is really important to me. So like I said, my name is Derek Young. My wife and I founded Mahogany Books in 2007 as an online bookstore dedicated to selling books. Books written for by and about people of the African diaspora. In 2017 we opened up our first store in Southeast DC. It was the first bookstore in the Southeast area in over 20 years. Our second bookstore we opened in 2021 in National harbor, which is five minutes down away. And we actually have another store coming to you soon that we will hopefully be announcing in the next year. Our goal is one to make books, black books, accessible and available to the community. To make sure that everyone has a place to connect and to get around. Other people who love books love these stories the way that we do. And one of the things that we love to do is to host events like this. So I don't know if I really need to read a bio because I think everyone here knows and loves the brother Nick Brooks. But I'm going to do it anyway just so we have it for for posterity sake, for our podcast. Nick Brooks is the critically acclaimed author of Promise Boys, an award winning filmmaker from Washington D.C. he's a 2020 graduate of USC's TV and Film Production Program. His short film Hoop Dreaming earned him the George Lucas Scholar Award and was a finalist in the Forbes 30 under 30 film fest. Before becoming, before becoming a filmmaker, Nick was an educator working with at risk youth. And many of his stories are inspired by his. By his experiences here with the children and families of this community. He is also the author of the Middle grade series Nothing Interesting Ever Happens to Ethan Fairmont. And of course, like I said, he is the critically accame author of the book Promise Boys. Please welcome Nick Brooks.

There we go. Thank you, Derek. I appreciate it. Thank y' all for being here. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you, all my friends and family. I love it.

Yes. All right, so we know we got some heat issues here. We're going to deal with it. That's okay. Yeah, we're going to hang out, we're going to have fun and have this conversation and we're going to talk about your brand new book.

Yeah.

Up in Smoke.

Yes, yes, yes.

And we were just talking about this.

Yeah, yeah.

How you feel?

I feel good, man. You know, I work a lot.

Yes.

So I'm trying to. I'm steady. Trying to learn and practice living in the moment.

Right.

Being present, not thinking about the next thing you know, I'm sure I'm not the only person who struggles with that. So taking it all in, processing and. And trying to enjoy it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and I'm glad you said that because, like, I have some. Sometimes that same experience with, you know, you get into the process of just working and grinding and trying to make your dreams come true, raising a family like you, you know, trying to make sure your wife and kids are good. But there are times that we need to take a step back.

Yeah.

And really appreciate what you've been able to accomplish. Because a decade, two decades ago, when you were like plotting this stuff in your mind, you was like, how am I going to get here?

Exactly.

And now you're here and you're doing fantastic.

Thank you, brother.

Yeah.

No, you're totally right. You have to be grateful for the things you asked for and when they come, you know, you appreciate it. And so that's something I definitely learned early on, is appreciation. And so. Which is why I'm so conscious of trying to stay present and trying to always be gracious because like you said, this, this is what we asked for, you know, been asking for for a long time. Just wanting to be an artist and be a writer. So. Thank you. Yes.

So we were actually having. We kind of got started late because we was having A conversation in the back and we forgot to include you guys in on was a really good conversation. So I kind of want to pick up from there because one of the things you mentioned was the thing that really kind of brings you back to reality is when you're actually working with kids. And you was talking about an experience you had yesterday at Planet Word with some kids from Anacostia. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I was at Planet Word yesterday speaking with kids from Anacostia High School, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade. And y' all was. Y' all been in high school, and I was a teacher. The kids get rowdy sometimes, especially when they on field trips. Right. And so that's what was happening. And I quiet them down, tell them, hey, I'm gonna read a passage from the book, the first page, which, when you get it, you'll see the first page is only a couple paragraphs long. And from the moment I started the first sentence on the first page, the kids got dead quiet. And by time I finished, I could see their eyes. They were huge. They were staring at me. And they were asking me for more. They were like, please, please, read more. Read more. And that is the part that never gets old. That's the part that reminds me, Right. Of, like, why we do what we do. And in those moments, I'm able to be present, which is why probably I'm connected to it so much because it grounds me and it reminds me of where I'm at. But they were so excited about that passage, and that let me know. Okay, this is connecting. This is why you put in all of this work. So that was powerful for me.

Yeah. And I absolutely, like, appreciate that, because I think. And we've had this conversation, another conversation about this is how especially young guys, young black guys, getting little boys into books.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

We have to be cognizant that it's. We don't give them the books that we want them to read.

Yeah.

We have to give them the books that they want to read.

Yeah.

Whether it's a comic book.

Yeah.

Graphic novel, a mystery book, whatever it is. If that's what attracts them to literature, then that's what we have to. We give them what they want. And that's what I loved about that experience for you yesterday.

Yeah.

I mean, it seems counterintuitive, but maybe it isn't. Like, when you force them to read the thing that you think they're supposed to read, it just makes them resent reading, and then they don't want to Read. You know what I mean? And so for me, we might have spoke about this before, but there was a book makes me want to holler by a guy, Nathan McCall, that I read, that really grabbed me, right? And then from there, Walter Mosley, my aunt.

My.

My Aunt Joy, she gave me a book by. She's like, maybe try this. Right? And she understood. And so, yeah, before that, you know, I'm reading Gifted Hands, and, you know, shit, I'm like, this is boring. Yeah, I don't want to read this for. For as wonderful of a man Malcolm X was, you know, reading it at 10:11. It's like, what is this?

Right.

You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, yeah. I told her, you got to meet the kids. Where they at?

I mean, imagine that, a kid not wanting to do what a parent is telling them to do.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah. You know, we've been there. Right? We understand this. So. So my first real official question. So I worked hard on these questions, y' all.

Okay.

Like, I've been. I'm like, number one. I don't want to embarrass myself.

Yeah, yeah.

Nick Brooks is my boy. I want to make sure that people get a chance to enjoy the book, but also really hear from you. So I really wanted to make sure these questions were going to be good. So, first, number one, again, welcome home. Right. And one of the things that I guess you all notice, especially with Promise Boys and Up in Smoke, is you're writing books that are based here, Right. And you was doing a. You had a IG post that came out yesterday talking about, you know, because you was on H Street.

Yep. Yep.

And talking about writing. Yeah, from this. Like, this is the place where I'm writing this story from.

Yes. Yes.

Can you talk about why that's important to represent DC in your work?

Yeah, for sure.

I guess for me, it's two main reasons. One is because of craft. It's like, I want to write from a place that feels authentic, that feels lived in. I want to write from a place that I understand so that I can be sure that the words connect with the audience or the reader. So that's like the craft perspective, which, of course, I can write anything, but particularly writing for kids, I want to make sure that this feels real to them because they can smell bullshit. And then the second reason for me is I think it's representation. You know, part. Again, part of what I want to do is inspire kids to write their own stories, to read, to become the person that they want to be, and So I think it's important for me. I want to, you know, because I came from here, this is my tribe, and I feel like, you know, I want to give back to my tribe, and I think it's particularly important for boys here to see that, because I'm going to connect with them in a different way, with them understanding that I'm from the same place they're from. Right. So it's like, instead of leaving that job up to somebody else, you know, I can write about boys from Cleveland. I'm not from Cleveland, you know, so they got a guy from, you know, the King, you know.

Yeah.

So that's. So it's craft, and then it's also, you know, responsibility.

Yeah. So talk about the energy that you're infusing into the book, like. Cause there's a. There is a. How many people from D.C. like, who is from D.C. not transplant.

Okay.

So y' all understand, like, D.C. is its own place, right? Like, you go to Baltimore, and I. It's different in Baltimore, different in Philly, different in New York.

Yeah.

D.C. is its own thing.

Yeah, yeah.

So how do you. As part of the craft.

Yeah.

Like, infuse that energy, like, into the book? Because in the first two chapters. We're not gonna do any spoilers here.

Yeah.

But you. There's a protest that's happening. Yeah, Right.

Yeah.

And as I'm reading, I'm like, okay, this. This feels like something I've been to before. And then when they're dodging through the alleyways, I'm like, okay, I kind of know what that's like. Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

So how do you work on bringing that energy of D.C. yeah. Into the. Into the book.

Into the book.

Yeah.

And the last thing I want to say, because you had a store called Motown, which if DC Moisturiz.

Yeah, yeah.

So just, like, how do you do that?

Yeah, yeah.

That's actually part of it. What you just mentioned. Right. Is culture. A lot of it is culture. So culture is language. Mo. Right. Is place. Right. So H Street. Right. So it's really culture. And how do I. You know, again, that goes back to your point of, like, why. Right. From D.C. is because I. Well, I know the culture here, and I can. I can do exactly what you're talking about. I can make it feel lived in. How do I infuse culture? So the language, the slang, the way they dress. Right. You know, Cooper's wearing New Balances. Right. You know, location, H Street. Like, all of those things play a part to build a world. And once you start reading it, you know, and you have that culture on the page. It puts you in that world. And so, yeah, that's. I think that's it. It's just the culture. And I'm able to write from that place because I know the culture. Right.

Yeah.

Right. And I. So. And people, I want you guys to understand that dc, I don't know if people really understand, like, the. The amount of, like, literary excellence that's coming out of dc, the number of people that are writing adult books as well as kids books that are doing some incredible things that are DC authors. So the fact that, you know, we're now adding Nick Brooks to that, to that mix.

Yeah.

You know, is really, really fantastic.

Thank you.

All right, so up in Smoke centers around young kid Cooper. Sorry, about to say Cooper flag. I'm a Duke fan. Oh, pardon me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Cooper King.

Cooper King.

Yeah.

And, you know, this is. So you kick it off from there.

Yeah.

Because I want you to kind of set up the story the way you want it.

Yeah. It's centered around this kid, Cooper King, who lives on Lane Place. Right. So if anybody knows off the 21st over by Heck and Jamal. And he's not sure where he quite fits in. You know, he thinks he's gonna get a summer job, but the DC jobs are cut for kids because of cutbacks in the city, which is crazy. Cause I wrote this way before Doge, right. And prophetic. And so he's trying to figure out what he wants to do. But in the midst of that, there's an officer involved, shooting the life of a young kid. Samir, right, is taken, which is really a call to Tamir, Tamir Rice at Union Station. Kids snatched a purse, shot by off duty cop. There's only 20 bucks in a purse. The kid lost his life. And so there's a protest happening down at 8th Street. And Cooper gets roped in by some of his friends to go against his father's wishes. And at the protest, there's a shooting, right? Cooper flees, like everybody. This is, you know, mad scramble, mad dash. He gets home, realizes and learns that there is a body victim, murdered victim. And on the screen, there flashes, there are five suspects. And he's one of the suspects. It's him and his friends on the screen with their, you know, with their mask that they were wearing at the protest. And now he's extremely freaked out. And so he works with his, his, his, his crush, right, Monique, to figure out what really happened. Because one of those five friends has already been arrested. And it happens to be Monique's big bro. They pair up to figure out what's going on to save Cooper's life and Monique's brother Jason. Yes.

Yeah.

So here's one of the things.

You want to read that. Y' all want to read that?

Yeah, we all do.

Yeah. Yeah.

So here's one of the things that, like, I picked up on, so. And maybe it's the dad of me. Right.

So.

The thing that I noticed. Right. So Jason.

Yeah.

Who is. And the way that you describe him is Cooper's mentor. Right. Jason is not making the best decisions. Right. And number one, I found that to be a very interesting use of words. When you called Jason his mentor, though, Jason isn't the one that's always making the best of decisions. And the reason Cooper is actually in this situation is partly because he doesn't.

Want to let down his big homie. Exactly.

So this is the dad of me thinking, like, okay, how do you keep your kids from. But can you talk about that? Like, why was it a dad in you writing that? What was that part for you?

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, again, it goes. I think about my experience growing up, and there's certain guys in the neighborhood that just seem cool because they got the car, right. They rolling in the. The Impala or something. You know, back when I was. It was the 95 or the 96 impala or something like that. And they seem cool. They got their own change, and they seem like they're doing what they want to do. But I always had a very strong discernment and many, many instances in my life where there was a. The guy, the big homie saying, hey, let's go do this. And there's times I've literally. There's times I've gone and left early. There's times I didn't go. But in both scenarios, either scenario, I always missed the part. I was never on the screen as a suspect for a murder. You know what I'm saying? I always miss that part because I'm like, yeah. You know what I'm saying? I'm like, okay, either I need to leave now, or this doesn't feel like something I should be a part of.

Right.

And again, so with Cooper, you know, Cooper didn't have that discernment in the beginning, but by the end, he did. And that's just character arc. Right. Like, you can't be perfect from the start, but that's where that really comes from. Again, you talk about putting those. Those gems.

Yeah.

In it for kids to kind of pick up on, not beat them over the head, but that's where that really came from. It's like, there's always going to be those guys.

Right?

There's always going to be guys that you look up to. And to be honest, you know, it. That's also a byproduct of there not being enough guys in the neighborhood that they should be looking up to. You know what I'm saying? And so, yeah, there's always going to be those guys, but you got to make the right choice.

Right.

And so that's what.

Yeah.

I mean, there's like. I can just really make this whole conversation about different themes that are happening in this book, because one of the other themes that really kind of stuck out to me was you first talked about, was it the summer youth employment program being cut? Right?

Yep.

And Cooper's words were essentially, like, there's hope. It's hopeless now. It feels tight.

Like, yes.

Yeah.

I was planning my summer. Right. I was planning my summer around this thing that was. I was going to have to. I can go and work, make a little bit of money, help my dad out.

Yep.

Right now this thing is gone, and this, like, hopelessness is now kind of pervasive over me and the rest of these guys.

Yep.

Right. And the. That was something that I felt deeply because that's something we have to make sure that we are guarding against for our youth. Was that something that was planned in terms of setting up the plot for everything that's gonna happen in this book?

For sure. You know, the book is, everything is kind of predicated on the idea that there's so much crime happening in the city because opportunities for our kids are being taken away. Right.

And.

Or they don't have access to opportunity. One of the two. And so definitely it was like, okay, I was a syep kid. You know, I was lifeguard for four years. And again, it was beneficial in tremendous ways, probably ways I don't even know. And so I just imagine, okay, this being taken away, and then, you know, the climbing was just different. Like, these kids got pistols 14, you know what I'm saying? So for me, it was about, okay, I understand that this is because there's not enough opportunity. Like, that's just fact. And so I wanted to. Again, it's just one of those things I want to put in a book that hits close to home. So just exactly what you said. Then you read it and say, okay, we need to start providing more opportunities. You know what I'm saying? It's all about just Putting these things in books for people to recognize and say, oh, this is a problem here in this world. How can we fix this in our real world? Right. This is a mirror. I'm holding up a mirror and being like, yo, this is what's happening.

Yeah.

So we need to do something about it. So.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that's what I love about. I'm not going to lie. I love. I'm a 47 year old man who loves reading young adult and young reader books.

Yeah.

Because like, this is content that we, as adults, we think we, we forget what we don't know. Right. That experience that we've had 30, 40 years ago. Right. Of how a kid feels when they're 15, 16, 17.

Yeah.

Like sometimes we need to be reminded of that. Like, okay, you know what, maybe this is why he's just on his phone and don't go outside or whatever because like, there's nothing out there for me.

Yeah.

And these are conversations that note, if you read a book with your kid. Right.

Yeah.

These are conversations that you guys can have to maybe figure out, you know, instead of those one word answers that your kids give you.

Yes.

Like, how are they really feeling about the things that are happening?

Yes, yes.

I think that's. This is a great book to read if you have a teenager, you know, it's a great. I think that's really smart because my hope is that they'll be really into it. Right. And then y' all will really have things to talk about and really can dialogue. So I think that's. That's beautiful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Awesome.

So I did that with my son for a little bit and I realized that he reads so much faster than I do. And then it was being held over my head when he was like, you still reading?

Yeah. Yeah.

You ain't finished?

Yeah, yeah.

You know what? I don't appreciate the way you make.

Me feel right now checking you. Yeah.

I'm feeling a little inadequate right now, but my 16 year old, like, no.

Oh, my goodness.

Oh, my goodness.

That's beautiful. That's. I think that's very smart. Okay.

All right, all right, so, so we talked about. So I want to kind of like, kind of dive deeper into this idea of the message and the mystery. Okay. So you definitely. You write these books now. You have this, who done it.

Yep.

Right?

Yeah.

And these kids are, you know, working their way through this story, trying to figure out like, what happened.

Yeah.

But it's the message piece that I think continues to resonate with me that, you know, again, it's, it's. How do you trick them into learning? And you was just kind of talking like you used the word Inception, which, you know, if you guys love movies, like, Inception is a great thing. Like kind of talk about how you trying to Inception these kids into like into learning.

No, absolutely. And I also brought up Sinners. I don't know if people here have seen the movie Sinners, but it feels like the whole, the whole world has seen it. But Ryan does such a great job of doing exactly what you're talking about. Right. Whereas a vampire movie, you know, some people say, oh, this is Dust till dawn.

Right.

But far, far more important than Dusto Dawn. Right. It's all of these themes and messages which is, I'm not going to give too much away, but just like little quips of dialogue. And so it's similar in that way where it's like, I just want to put the ideas there. I don't want to explore the idea. I want you to explore the idea like you, you explore the idea. But I'm going to put the idea for you to think about. And that's, I think that's the trick. And you put the idea in context, right? And that context you make entertaining. So it's like, okay, the idea of there not being any opportunities that leads to these kids going down to this protest and it, you know, be causing chaos and there's a murder, like in that context, then it sticks with you. Like that happened because they cut those programs. We can't cut program. You know what I mean? So it's about taking these ideas. We don't talk about syep no more after we do it, right? After we. But after that idea's planted, it stuck with you. It's like, oh, this is. Was. This is the motivation.

Yeah.

So that's what it's about is putting the idea in, in a context that's. That keeps the, the audience glued and then let them do the digging for it. Right? And then that's the Inception piece. It's just like the, the candy and the medicine type of thing. And so for me that's important because I'm not again, I. And it's also like a taste slash like preference. Like I personally don't like watching things that are beating me over there. Like, I don't like consuming that type of. I just don't like it. You know, to be honest, it doesn't respect the audience. It doesn't respect the audience. It's like, I need to spoon feed you just because you're not. You're. You're not capable of understanding it or, you know, having the wherewithal to dive into yourself. You know, I want to be respected as an audience. Right. So it's like. I think that's part of it too. Let me just give it to you. Because, you know, if you. If you. If you're here, then I know you're going to do the work to get the rest of the way.

No, no, no, I definitely like that. Like, especially, you know, you're writing for young readers, for young adults. We have to respect their own intelligence.

Yes.

Right.

Their own wisdom. They are smart.

Yeah.

Very smart.

Yeah, yeah.

Not to cut you off, but I'll say one quick thing. A lot of this, these themes came out of a conversation I had with a young person. I was in, actually, Chicago, which is, you know, the book starts with a Fred Hampton quote, but I was in Chicago and a young lady stood up at a school and she said, how do we combat systemic oppression? Like, you know, a 10th grader. And it's like. I was like, damn, like, they are ready to talk about these things. And I didn't even have a real answer for her because it was. It caught me so off guard. But that. That stuck with me. And that's what, again, meeting them. Where you at? So, like, oh, bet.

Yeah.

Like, let's go there. Let's, like, start to talk about revolution and liberation and activism, but do it in a way that feels like a murder mystery. Right?

Yeah.

Right.

Okay. So, yeah, imagine that these kids are actually smart, intelligent, listening to their parents. Gonna have, you know, deep. She's just laughing. She's like. She knows. She's like, I'm trying to tell you. Okay, yeah. Let's have this conversation. I'm with you.

Yeah.

And then. And then, you know, when we listen, we'll be so surprised.

Like, yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Like you.

Yeah.

You were actually listening to me.

Yeah.

Right. You weren't just rolling your eyes, you were actually listening to me and using this in your life somehow. Love that. Okay, so the co. Lead of the book.

Yes.

Is Monique.

Monique, right. So.

So I'm actually kind of curious. When did you decide to. Was she always a part of the book? And why did you find it necessary to add a female colleague? And what were you wanting her to bring?

Yeah. To the book.

Absolutely. Well, it's. It's first.

Yes.

She was always a part of the book. And Promise. And Promise Boys. One of the aspects people loved a lot were JB and if, you know, Promise Boys. There were These two characters, JB and Kiana, JB was one of the lead Promise boys and Kiana was a girl from his neighborhood. And people love their dynamic. Like, you know, particularly the young, the young female audience. They like, oh, we want more Kiana, we want more Kiana. And that, that, that spoke to me. I said, dope, y' all like that. Okay. So that was part of it, making it this two hander. And then also like this. Will they, won't they romance? You know what I mean? Again, just meeting the kids where they, I saw that that was something they gravitated towards. I said, okay, maybe, maybe I could put more romance in my books. Right. Like, so that was part of it. And then also I needed duality. Cooper, again, I don't want to give too much away, but, but Cooper, I really don't want to give this because this is like a twist in the story. But Cooper and Monique were at the protest for very different reasons. You know what I'm saying? And so again, talk about character art. I needed them both to have an art. Monique is also very, she starts very self righteous. Right. She thinks her way is the right way, her way of activism is the right way to do it. Right. And so I wanted them to basically be again, like each other's duality where they can help each other have a complete art and bring them to a place where maybe it's more nuanced, it's not so black and white, Right. In the way that they start. So that was really it. And then again, like I said, the romance. So it was really the romance. You know, I think that was important. I think having them both be like them both learn from each other, change each other's character and then it's just like cute and fun, you know what I mean? To have like this two handed with this young boy and his young girl.

Yeah.

Like solving his murder.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I absolutely like that because the term I learned for this book is dual pov.

Yes.

Right. Like, I guess I've been reading dual POV books for a while now. Didn't realize it was like an actual. So can you tell the audience a little bit about that?

Yeah.

What?

The dual POV is just a book written from two perspectives. Promise Boys was written from three main perspectives. But yeah, it's just.

Yeah, that's what it is.

Okay.

Yeah.

Because so when you, when you answer that question and you talk about everything is not black and white.

Yes.

There's a lot of gray.

Yes.

And stuff.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And there are times that like you said, we think. Yeah, our way is the only way.

Yes.

But having this other person.

Yes, yes.

It helps give some. Some perspective. Right. And the other thing, of course, is. And this is just good tension is there are secrets that they're. That they're keeping from each other. Right. So that's the other thing about, you know, multi perspective. It's like you can have characters, keep secrets, hide the ball, be dishonest. Right. And those things create tension for the story. So that's also like, just like a craft thing, you know?

Okay. Yeah, yeah.

This is dope. This is like a writers creative writers 101 type of. I'm learning a lot here. Okay. I won't be writing no book. That's a lot of discipline. That's a lot of real. How long did it take you?

This took about a year.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's about a year from. From, you know, from conception to. To out, to finish.

Okay.

So I wasn't going to ask this question yet.

Yeah.

In the. The, like, how I had things ordered, but it just kind of brought me there.

Yeah.

Like, what is your. Like, what is your process?

Yeah.

So once you identify this is the story, like you met the young lady in Chicago.

Yeah.

She kind of like dropped this thing in your head, like, from that point to getting through this.

Yeah.

What. What is the process?

For sure. Yeah.

It Usually in books, for sure. The way it's been for me is always start with theme. Right. What's the thing? What do I want this to be about ultimately? Then from there is the way in. Or like the inciting incident or, you know, what's the thing that kicks off the plot? So I'm like, okay, I want to do something around activism, around being a young revolutionary. What can ha. Okay, I do murder mystery. How do I get in that world? Protest. Okay, Protest. What would happen at a. Oh, okay. Murder at a protest. You know what I mean? It's just. It's just. And they call it, you know, the way in. So I figure out the way in, and then from there I outline. Okay, well. And then I decide on my character. Right. My protagonist. Okay, here's my way in. Protest. Murder. Boom. I got a mystery right in the world. Now. Who do we enter? Whose eyes do we enter the story through? Who's the best person for this story? And then that's where you come up with, like, these arcs of, like. Okay, you know, again, I don't want to give too much away about Cooper and why he's there, but how do we take him from one place to another place. Right. And so I don't want to get in the minutiae of it too much, but from there I just outline the story. Like, what's the plot? Literally beginning, middle, end? Like, what generally happens? Who's my villain? You know what I mean? Those type of things. And then once I have an outline that I feel good about, then I'll just start putting words on the page and, and go for it, you know what I mean? And then, and then, and then there's a ton of, you know, rewriting after that. That's, which is where I really have the fun. The putting on the words on the page is like the really hard for some people. For me, that's the, that's the part that's like hardest to just. Do you talk about that. Discipline. That's. For me, that's the part that's hardest to be disciplined about. Because you just stand at a blank page and these words are supposed to appear, you know, 60 to 80,000 words supposed to appear. So you're like, okay, you know what I'm saying? But then, but the rewriting is where I have a lot of fun because the words are already there now. I'm just like massaging. But yeah, you just write.

So are you, are you a person who, like, you know, okay, I'm gonna treat this as a job. So from nine to three or nine to one got, you know, kids to take care of. But like, how do you divide your day? Are you just like night owl with it? How do you.

Absolutely, definitely treating it like a job. Waking up, do my morning walk and then boom, I'm writing, you know, writing by 10, writing by 10am do that probably till lunch. And depending on what other obligations I have, I may pick up for a couple more hours after lunch. May or may, you know, kind of switch gears because I'm a multi hyphenate. So switch gears into another thing I'm doing. But, but if I'm, if I'm, if I'm writing or if I'm on deadline or if I'm, I have a thing that I'm, that I'm trying to get out, then yeah, I'm, I'm trying to be writing by 10am and then writing until, until lunch at least, right? And just, and that's just kind of every, that's like an everyday thing. And then sometimes when you get close, I can give myself a page count. Okay, cool. I want to, I want to hit, you know, you know, depending on where I'm at, I Try to, you know, maybe not go anywhere from five to 20 pages a day, you know, so.

Yeah.

Side of 20. Okay.

20 is more on the side of when I'm doing a lot of the rewriting.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's. That's. That, you know, it's. It's not typical that at the blank. At the blank pages, I'm. I'm just knocking out 20 pages.

That is very.

No, no, no, no. That's. That's more. That's more like. That was a spectrum. That's more on, like, the rewriting side. Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Okay. So you have a. I think I can mention this album.

Of course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it goes along with the book or like, kind of. So he has. The boy has an album. Come on, y' all. All right. He recorded an album, Wrote an album.

Yes.

Let's go ahead and. So let's. Let's talk about that.

Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, it's funny you mentioned, like, the book is told in two perspectives. Dual perspective is Cooper and Monique. But there's actually a third perspective. Right. That is in the form of a rap album. And the album has clues to the murder in the book. And so.

So you didn't tell me that when you sent it to me. So now I gotta go and listen to the album again. You didn't tell me ahead. Oh, come on.

Yeah, the album has clues to the murder book. It's told from other. And, you know, once you start the album, you'll know. Exactly. Well, you have to read the book. It really does go together.

Okay.

You know, if you read. If you're into the book, if you're at least midway through the book, once you start the album, you'll know whose perspective the album is from.

Okay. Okay.

And then you'll probably be able to pick up on some of the. But they really go together. But the cool thing is they can exist completely independently. Like, you don't have to have ever heard of up and smoke a book and still enjoy the album and vice versa. Right. So I just thought that was a cool idea, man.

Like, dude, you just.

Yeah.

Messed up the whole. Like, I gotta go back and now re.

Listen to the whole.

Which is not a problem. Yeah, yeah, I enjoyed the album.

Yeah, yeah.

But what was that? So when did you come up with the. I'm sorry, this is.

Y' all.

It's rare that I talk to an author. And, like, there's a new thing that's being introduced to me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

This one. This one definitely caught me off Guard.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Well, again, it goes back to. So when I'm on the stage and talking to the kids, they always ask about, can I. Oh, can you rap? Can you rap? Da da da da. So again, I realized, and I knew the type of kid I was, I realized, like, how powerful hip hop is and the hold that it has on kids. And so I'm like, again, just for me, it's all about how do I open up the doorway for literacy like we was talking about earlier. Like, a lot of times it's just they haven't picked up the right book. And so for me, it's like a. It's like a. It's like, okay, cool. This is something that I think for my kids who only love rap and they think they're too cool for books, when they hear the music, if. Right, and hopefully it does. If it connects and they understand and they learn that there's actually a novel to go with it, they're gonna be curious. You're gonna be. If I heard Dipset had a book, you know what I'm saying, that went with. You know what I'm saying, I would have been.

Can't see Cam writing a novel, but.

I would have been like, hold on, I just. What is that? You know what I'm saying? What is that? So for me is that. And it also is, you know, it's a way for me to like, just express myself. Like I said, I'm a multi hyphenate, so it's like, okay, how do I. How do I drive myself crazy? Like, how do I just keep giving myself more stuff to do? You know what I'm saying? Like, so it's like, yeah, how do I, you know, how do I open this doorway? How do I create something that's never been done before? And. Yeah, just something. Just something cool to do. Okay. So.

Yeah. So did you. When did you know you was going to write the album to go along.

Man, to be honest, I think I was like, okay, you know what? I'm definitely going to do this. Like, when I made the decision for sure, it was probably like January, February.

And how far into the process were you with the book at that point?

Book was done.

Okay.

Yeah, the book with the book with the book was done, done, done. And I had just been working on music because as I do.

I'm sorry, you mean this past January?

Yeah, like a few, like some months ago.

So you wrote an album in three.

I mean, I've been writing music for a long time, though. Okay, that's How I started writing.

Okay?

So that. That's why I'm like, that. That, to me, was like. That was like. That was fun. That was fun to do, but I wasn't sure I was gonna do it because.

Just.

Because, you know. And the reason it happened so late. Cause I'm always kind of just working, tinkering with music. But it was sounding really good. And I'm like, yo, there's something here. And then. And I think it's. I think it was sounding good because I was rooted in the theme of the book. You see what I'm saying? Like, that's where I was. I wasn't just, like, writing records or just freestyling. Like, I was. I was rooted in something. And so for a time, I thought I might be getting Killer Mike to ep, like, the album. And so when that happened is when I turned it up even another gear. Okay. Now I got to really do something, right? It ended up not happening, but I got amazing features on the album. From D Smoke to Fat Trail to Bodie James to. You know what I'm saying? Davion first. All these guys, you know, showed up, and I was like, okay, this is really dope. This is a really cool. You know what I mean? It just kind of took on a life of zone. But it wasn't until probably January when I was like. And I remember being on the call with my publisher maybe in February. Yeah, it was February. It was February when I was on the call with the publisher. When I told them, and that's just, what, a few months? I was like, hey, y' all. Surprise. And they had never seen or heard anything like that. So they was just kind of like. Like, what are you saying? You can't tell a man they can't release music. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, man, that was all in the last few months.

Okay, this is funny. Cause now I'm playing. Going back to conversation we had. So I interviewed Nick for another podcast reader of black genes. He was telling me the story about the music situation you had while he was at ou.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So now I'm like, are you gonna send a dude like, hey, that's what I just did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, man, it's all love. You know, it's like. Like I said, I've been doing it for such a long time. Like. But, you know, it's always been one of those things that's. That's a whole different world. We'll get into that. But I've been doing it as A hobby for a long time. So I'm just excited to have that project out. I'm excited that it sounds the way it sounds, and I'm glad you got to take a listen. But, yeah, run it back and you'll. And now if you read. Now that you read the book and you. And you know, and you listen to it, you're gonna pick up a bunch of stuff.

Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. So I'm going to try to do one last question. I do want to open it up. Anyone have any questions out there? Regent? Okay. Okay. So we won't get you guys some questions, because I could just give it the entire time. So I think that what I want to kind of leave with is.

For.

Educators. Parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents. What do you tell them, like, about this book? And then what do you want? Like, not only them to get out of it, but you want the young kids who are reading it to get out of this book?

I mean, super transparent. I'm just looking at the crowd to see. Make sure everybody's a friendly face. I got asked this question, a similar question on Fox 5 on Friday. And I said, on Fox 5, we need to burn the White House down. You know, and they were kind of like.

Like, who invited us?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, because. Because the album cover is the White House burning down. Yeah. Like, what's that about?

Yeah.

And I'm like, we need to burn it down. We need to burn this whole thing down. And so the book is really, you know, we're saying a lot without trying to say everything again. That's why I always just think about sinners. And the idea, like, these artists at different levels are pulling from this place and saying. Saying something really, really heavy without saying it. But it's like, for me, it's about, what do we want our future to look like as a community? Let's look at our kids. Let's see, like, you know, look at the. You know, the climate, the state they're in. If you're in dc, I hear all the time, people tell, you know, I'm in Los Angeles now, but people say, Man, DC's bad, man. So much crime. Like, kids dying. Like. So for me, it's about, okay, where do we want to be? How serious are we about building as a community? Do we forever want our fate in the hands of people who don't care about us? And how do we, you know, I'm saying, galvanize. How do we. How do we become revolution? How do we raise Our kids as revolutionaries. How do we start to put that into their brain now? How do we start to really, really, really, really build? You know, that's. That's what it is for me. It's like. That's what I'm. It's constantly on my mind is like, we have to change this, right? We have to change this whole system. And so the parents, again, I'm being, like, more transparent than I probably typically would, but parents, educators, anybody who's on that type of time is like, yo. But. But in a. But in a real way. Not in, like, you know, I went to Roots. You know.

Roots.

Yeah.

Okay. And so in a real way, how are we building organizations like Move, you know what I'm saying? How are we arming ourselves? Right. Again, I'm being super frank. And not just arming ourselves and, you know, artillery, but, like, within the mind, right in the heart and the spirit. How are we arming ourselves to really, really fight and to really make sure we build a community that can sustain. Sustain independence, like, you know what I'm saying? Like our own nation within a nation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

It's a lot.

Yeah. There's. There's so much there. And there was. There's a book I was reading as well that was talking about. It was using W. Du Bois as one of the characters, and one of the components of the book was he was talking about. Art needs to be about doing something. I'm paraphrasing, right? Like, there's no point in creating art if it's not inspiring people to be.

Active and to cause.

Yeah, to cause. So fantastic. What I want to do is we have a mic at the front and our events coordinator give it up for DJ Breezy. Bri. She doesn't like that name when I say it.

It's an unofficial DJ name. When I come out with my DJ name and y' all hear me on the ones and twos, just know.

Boom.

Can everyone hear?

Is this.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So you can come up front. And I say, DJ Brianna's going to hand you the mic for your questions. Please talk into the mic because again, it's being recorded for the podcast.

Hello, everybody. Good afternoon.

You're good.

Guys, I'd like to know, Nick, what is your process for your titles? Did you think about the title first before you write your book?

Yeah.

Or do you figure it out somewhere in the middle or the end before you put that. That polish on it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because once you put that title on it, you can't change it.

Can't change it.

Yeah, yeah.

This is my cousin Dennis. By the way. It's his birthday.

Happy birthday, Dennis.

He know about that up in Smoke, don't you, Dennis? Oh, no, that's my guy, man. That's my. That's. That's the big cuz, man. He's. He is the. The guy for this one. The initial title for this was actually Riot Gear. And I. I think. I probably think about the titles beforehand. And for this one, my publisher asked me to change it. Basically, they didn't want it to be too political. And so. And they had suggested something along the lines of. They had just said something was smoking. Oh, they said smoke and mirrors. So, like, no, respectfully, but I like the idea of smoke. And so then I was like, okay, again, going back to theme. Up in Smoke. You know, again, burning the system down. So up in Smoke. But, yeah, thank you, Dennis, for that question. Happy birthday, cuz.

Yeah, yeah.

Much love, brother. Hi.

Hey.

How you doing?

So great to meet you.

Thank you. Thank you.

My question is, there has been a change in young adult novels. I am older than you, and I.

Know I'm older than you.

And when I was growing up, the young adult novels, teen novels, were the girls wondering, is this outfit. Does this outfit look good on me? Does this lipstick look good? The boys are wondering whether they're gonna make the varsity football team.

Yeah. Yeah.

But now the young adult novels, the teens in those books are dealing with adult issues.

Yeah.

Crime.

Yeah.

Shooting.

Yeah.

And things of that nature. So can you explain why that is happening? It's good.

Yeah.

But why that has happened in young adult novels?

For sure. For sure. I mean, I could. I can explain the best to what I could hypothesize. You know, I think one is this consciousness, right? As. As collective consciousness rises and we see there are more important things to talk about for kids than just football teams. And I was like, okay, we need to go deeper. But then also, I think, experience, you know, again, I'm not sure what it was like when you was reading those, but I know, me as a kid, I knew friends who were shot. I knew friends who were killed. You know, and so it's experience, you know, I think, again, you know, as technology and society has shifted over time and more access to things you shouldn't have, you know, increase. Like, kids are actually experiencing things that adults are going through. Like, we just, you know, so it's kind of that thing where, like, you know, art is reflecting, you know, reality. And we've all been kids and, you know, You're a kid, you go through those things and you write about it. So some combination of those things, and I'm sure, again, a bunch of other things I just don't have. I don't. I don't have the insight into, but, yeah, I think that's it. Thank you. Yeah.

I think that's a very interesting thing because, to be honest, I had, like, some. Like, there was some tension for me about that as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because, you know, that's not all that our kids are exposed to. So I think the answer to it is, and I feel this way about. About adult books and music is we just need a broader inventory, for sure.

Yeah.

Right. So the more books that are being published about a variety of topics, kids can pick and choose what they want.

Right.

There are some times that, you know, I'm reading history books. I'm dealing with, like, reconstruction America. I'm dealing with slavery. I'm like, you know what? I'm done. I'm gonna jump over here to sci fi now.

Yes.

Right. Then I have a huge run in sci fi books.

Yes.

And then I get tired of that, and then I jump over here to literary books. Right. But if you have the options of books written by black folk, of all the different things that we experience, then.

You can't go wrong.

You can't go wrong.

Yeah.

And the last thing I'll say on that, too, to that point is like, there's also market. You know, they see, oh, the crimes are doing well is to your point about music. Oh, the crimes are doing well. Let's keep. Let's make sure we keep pumping those out. You know what I mean? So I think it's important. I think the point's taken that you're saying is, like, let's. It needs to be just variety, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good to see you.

Hey, so my question for you is, where did you get your inspiration for up in Smoke?

For sure.

Yeah.

It was. It was actually a young lady in Chicago. She was at where I was at a school visit. She stood up and she said, how do we combat systemic oppression? And so, you know, it kind of blew my mind. I didn't know how to answer it in that moment. I was kind of put on the spot. But it did clue me into, like, the things that they're thinking about. And so, you know, the major. The major themes in the book are activism, you know, you know, what it means to be a young revolutionary. And so. But it was really that, just that question from her that made me start Thinking. Because I always come from a place of theme, you know, that's how I enter the story. And so that. That's what did it for me was that question. Yeah. Thank you.

Thank you. All right, we have.

I think we have time for two more. Okay, I see.

Okay. So first, thank you for telling me about this.

Yes.

So it's not necessarily about up in Smoke, but my question is, you also write middle grade, so how do you get into a mindset? Because coming from a high school librarian and having kids grow through that age, how do you figure out how am I going to make it appropriate or relevant for younger kids? Like, do you start with a story of like, I'm going to make this middle grade? Or do you start writing and then you realize it's really middle grade and just go with it?

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that comes back to kind of what the sister was asking about. Content, you know, themes like. So. So my middle grade series was really about family and friendship. You know, it's much lighter, something we can have a little more fun with. You know what I mean? Which definitely not doing any. Any shootings in any middle grade books. So. Yeah, really coming from. From a place like, what is this about? And if it feels like, if it's like, about family, friendship, legacy, you know, things that I could touch on and I can do it in a light, fun way, then, then typically. Not. Not necessarily typically, but that to me makes more sense as a middle grade versus if I'm coming at a really heavy topic, then I know. Okay, this is going to be young adult or adult.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And again, this is. This is. This is mystery, right?

Yeah.

So, I mean, the thing is, is that we are talking about a mystery book which usually deals with crime.

Yeah.

Yeah.

These kind of topics. So.

Yeah.

Hey, what's up?

So we know your previous project, your previous book, Promise Boys, was going to be made into a show.

Yeah.

So in terms of up in Smoke, do you know, or how do you know when it may be looked at as another take, another form of entertainment?

For sure. For sure.

Yeah.

It's. That's the, that's the goal right there is like, I would really love to. For this. I would really love to do it as a feature film. And man, really, it's just about. It's crazy because Hollywood's in a really weird place, but you got to. You got to get money to make a movie. And, you know, it's. We're reeling from Pandemic, and then there was a big Hollywood strike and then there was LA fires, like a bunch of things that happened. And then we have the unpredictability of like what is even happening with anything, right? With, with the people in, you know, downtown, whatever. So it may, it makes it hard right now to. What's up, Eli? What's up? It makes it hard right now to basically finance films. Right? And so anyway, to answer your question is like, I don't know, I don't know. But it's a goal of mine and we going to work at it for sure now that the book comes out officially Tuesday. So once it's out, I'll probably send, I'll be able to send it out around town and see, you know, get people to read it and da, da, da. But that's surely the goal. So we'll see.

Yeah.

Well, hey guys, number one, let's thank Nick Brooks for coming home, for doing his book launch here, D.C. adjacent. Yes, right. And for choosing Mahogany Books to be the host of this book launch.

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