The Stories We Tell Ourselves: A Conversation with Leslie Gray Streeter on Family & Other Calamities

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[00:02:00] It literally takes two minutes and it means everything. It's how we, this small indie podcast, grows this community and gets these conversations in front of more readers who need them. Now let's get into it. Hey everyone and welcome to another episode of Dot Dot Dot But Make It Books. I'm Nakara, your podcast host in all things.

[00:02:26] And I'm so blessed to be in a space in the place with Leslie Gray Streeter. So what is going on? How are you? Welcome to the pod. I am good. I'm so excited to be here. I am living through a, it was a snow day, but a fake snow day. Yeah. It didn't really snow that much. But the child was home and so we had to co-exist together while he was learning online. Right. Virtual learning. Virtual learning. It all worked out.

[00:02:51] It's better than it was during COVID where, you know, they were there the whole year and he was falling asleep on the couch and they would text me and go, is he there? I'm like, I don't know. Cause he was downstairs, but you know, he's, he passed first grade. So now he's in sixth grade. So I guess that worked. Oh, well, middle school. I remember those days. All the hormones.

[00:03:14] It's a lot. Literally the first day he went to school, when he went to school the first day of first grade, I'm sorry, sixth grade, his voicemail was, sorry, I can't get to the phone. And literally on the way home, he changed to, yo, can't answer the phone. I'm like, and here we are. And here we go. Being a boy. Being a boy, being all like, you know, now he's like, well, you don't have to like walk me in. That happened overnight. You know? I know.

[00:03:43] I'm very embarrassing. Apparently. Yes. It's okay. I can't wait. It was so funny. I was talking to my fiance last night and he said, you just did like a mom thing. Cause I was like, yeah, totally cool. And he was like, you're not even a mom and you're already being embarrassing. I said, the funny thing is our kids are going to be more embarrassed by you than me because it already is happening with his younger frat brothers. And they're like, oh no, you're different. You're cool. Dwayne. No.

[00:04:11] And I'm like, see, I am cool. You are not right. You are cool. Look at you. So let me tell the folks about, aboutcha, aboutcha, aboutcha. Leslie Gray-Street is a columnist, author, international speaker, widow, single mom, very slow run walker, bad guitarist who sings loud over the court she can't reach. And a woman who named her son Brooks Robinson because they are really, really, really from Baltimore. Yep.

[00:04:38] She's been doing this, writing about her opinions and the things that make us human for nearly 30 years. She started at Baltimore City College High School in the eighties where she, when she met her first newspaper columnist and thought, wait, they'll pay you to write about your opinion and has essentially never looked back from the University of Maryland. Go Terps. If you didn't know. I cast. Yes. To the East coast.

[00:05:04] And back again, she has written for the Miami Times, the York dispatch, the Palm Beach Post, the Washington Post. Oh, the Oprah magazine where she wrote about grief. And she even recapped the bachelorette weekly for those Seattle times, which tells you everything you need to know about her range. She is now the lifestyle columnist for the Baltimore banner, which she describes as a perfect circle with a lot of Janet Jackson and the emotional montage. She is the author of the memoir, black widow and unflinching and deeply moving account of her, of losing her husband.

[00:05:33] And now she has given us family and other calamities, her debut novel, which is funny, sharp, tender and chaotic and all the right ways. Again, welcome. Thank you. So that was great. That was really fun. That's almost everything. And actually, I have another one coming out in the fall, but we'll talk about that, which I'm literally, when I get off the phone with you, I have to finish the last pass of developmental edits on that. So. I love that. Oh my gosh. Congratulations. Okay.

[00:06:02] So we're both Terps and we're both from Baltimore. What's your favorite Terp spot? And it doesn't have to exist currently. And what is your favorite Baltimore spot? My favorite Terp spot was Marathon Deli, which is no longer there. No. And I, and I remember because we still had it and it's gone. It's gone. Um, and there was a Chinese spot. I cannot remember the name of it. It was in that same strip. Um, there was around the corner from the seven 11.

[00:06:32] Which well now we got so many. Oh boy. Yeah. That's cause I mean. I graduated in 93. So you were born what year? 91. Yeah. So you. It hasn't changed. When I was there, it didn't change. It was. It's got the new fancy. Well, we don't shop at target anymore, but they got the target. Yes. And they got Nando's. So Ratsy's was gone. And then I had my. Oh yeah. Mm hmm. Because my friends, parents met at Ratsy's.

[00:07:03] And so yes, I've had so many drunken nights at that undercooked pizza. And I can't. Oh, Ratsy's was terrible, but it was there. It was what it was. It was. It was. And there was. Well, you, you do not. The Voo, the rendezvous and the Voo was on the corner. It was like the place. And I think I went to the Voo once. Um, because it was gross and I didn't want to go there. And there was a place called the. What was the place? It was on the other side.

[00:07:32] It was near Ratsy's. Anyway, I. Oh, they changed that spot all the time. Now it's. Turpin turf. Okay. Before that was Santa Fe. And then it was like. Yes. Santa Fe. It was Santa Fe when I was there. Okay. So this is the funniest story. So my sister and I are twins. You see guys how like the turf life doesn't change. The turf life. Santa, Santa Fe Cafe. So my sister and I were twins and she did not have her driver's license yet. She went to St. Mary's County in Southern Maryland. So she came to visit.

[00:08:00] We brought our birth certificate with us and I had my license. And we talked the bouncer into letting her in. Cause I was like, we're clearly twins. And I am baby A on this birth certificate and she is baby B. Aww. And he let us in and next time he's like, my bouncer, my manager said I couldn't let you in again. We're like fine, whatever. And it worked once. Santa Fe. It worked once. That's hilarious.

[00:08:29] I got in on my roommate's ID and it was surely we were not the same race. So she was Filipino, white, Filipino. And I'm sitting here like we do not look the same, but it worked. So shout out to my girl. Shout out to my girl. Okay. Favorite Baltimore spot. Favorite Baltimore spot. I have so many. I, there's a place. I, there's a place. I, not far from me. Uh, called. Why am I, why am I blanking on the name?

[00:08:59] Um, that's I'm in butchers won't near butchers Hill. I love that name. Okay. I will, because my, my brain is menopause. Don't do it. Um, I will say, um, I like a lot of places in Fells Point. Um, I like, I can tell. I, you know, um, my brain. Um, gosh. Uh, what's the, why am I forgetting? Okay.

[00:09:24] I love the, um, Sagamore Pindry Hotel, what used to be Sagamore Pindry, not just the Pindry, which in the nineties was the set of Homicide, Life on the Street. Yes. And that's one of my favorite spots. I love going in there, whether to stay, it's expensive, but I like it. I also really love, shout out to fancy black things. Uh, the Ivy Hotel. I love the Ivy. I have a standing massage appointment at the spa. It's amazing. Every love. Magdalena is an amazing, uh, restaurant.

[00:09:54] Uh, I stay there. I like to stay for my birthday cause it's expensive, but I like to get a suite, you know, and I will say, shout out. It's expensive, but also there is, it includes everything when you stay there. It does. It's like valet, like you could, like they have a driver that will take you in like a certain amount of radiation. High tea. Bar. Uh, rest, the high tea breakfast. Um, there's like an open bar. All of the tips are included. So it honestly works out to be.

[00:10:24] That's why everybody's happy there. And I see the same drivers every single time I pull that car up and valet is free. Right. And valet is free. So if you go to the four seasons or you go to someplace else, it runs up pretty much the same. Um, so yeah, that's, that's my favorite spot. Yeah. I do love the Ivy. It's a, it's a gorgeous, gorgeous hotel. Marta. That is the place in Burgers Hill. Oh, I love Marta. Oh, it's my favorite French spot. Oh my God. That crudo on the menu was really good. It's so great.

[00:10:54] And it's just, it's very chill. It years ago, I like 20 years ago, it was a place called salt and I was running the half marathon. I was living in Florida running the half marathon up the hill. And I was like, that place looks cool. And I came back, it was closed, but now it's a new place. Yeah. I really liked it. It's really cool. It's really cool. I think it's named after his wife or the grandmother, somebody in his family. Yes. I think so. It's very cool. It's, and it's just, I really liked it. And it just feels good. It's kind of place that you go and you don't, it's like Europe. You don't feel rushed.

[00:11:24] You don't feel like you have to leave for the next table. You can just take your time, you know, and it's very cool. Yeah. And if people like solo dates, it's a great solo date place. Yes. I've done that. Yes. I do it all the time. I'm like, Ooh, sometimes, you know, if the man ain't here, I'm going to leave. Go sit at the bar. Sit at the bar. Just be around people, you know? Yeah. Just be around people, but not having to be around people. Not having to be, or having to interact with them, you know? Yes. Yes. Me and my Kendall.

[00:11:54] So before we get in the book, you wrote a memoir about grief, which I think is deeply connected to family and other calamities. Black Widow. And now a novel you wrote about a journalist going home to Baltimore to blow things up. Blow things up. It's so funny. I, this was my first fiction. I've been, you know, a journalist all my life and then writing the memoir, which just felt like a really, really long column.

[00:12:24] And so when I decided to go fiction, I was like, I'm going to go off some of what I know, widowhood, Baltimore, journalism. And then it takes a completely different turn, you know? Yeah. But it felt intentional to me to make her real. The book that I am finishing that comes out in October, which I'll tell you about later, has no widowhood. There is some griefiness because I, that's a place that I feel pretty comfortable in.

[00:12:55] But I needed to start off my journey with fiction by starting at least in a place that felt familiar. And that was that. I like that. For listeners who haven't read it yet, how would you describe this book to someone like in a grocery store line? Families or Black Widow? Families. Okay. Okay. It's about a journalist who comes back to town to bury her husband's ashes and finds

[00:13:22] out that a long lost friend who stole a story from her 30 years ago is making it into a movie and she's the villain. Ba-ba-ba! Yes. The ba-ba-ba is very important, but yeah, that's what it's about. The ba-ba-ba is very important. So the dedication is to Ida B. Wells, shout out to the GOAT, the original truth teller. The original. All truth tellers that come after. That statement before the story even starts.

[00:13:50] What did you want the reader to feel right when they're in it? I wanted people to understand this was a love story about a lot of things, but it was a love story to journalism. Dawn, like myself, is a person who fell in love with journalism very early and understanding that it was about truth, that it was about the uncomfortableness of truth.

[00:14:17] Particularly the people that are not telling the truth. They're very allergic to it. And so someone like Ida B. Wells made, it was dangerous to tell the truth with who she was. It was dangerous to be out there digging these things up and telling these stories. And so it's not quite the same in my story, but I wanted to make the stakes, people to

[00:14:47] understand what the stakes is. Particularly right now, if I can be honest, journalism is not a safe place. There are people in this country who are targeting us, who are arresting us, who are all of these things. I could not have understood that when I started this book, and I started writing this book a couple of years ago, that this is where we would be. The landscape into which it came was not only very different from when it started, just in a couple of years, but now it's even more perilous.

[00:15:17] And so I want people to understand that the people who are out there risking their lives to tell you the truth are not just there to mess your day up. They're not just there to make things difficult for you. They're there because they want you to see an unvarnished explanation of what is happening to you. And so I feel like my life is possible because of people that gotta be Wells. And I feel like the people that I mentor, I hope in some very small way, I am making

[00:15:46] possible what they see and what they can be. So that's what that's about. I really love that. I really do. So it felt, so the movie that came to me when Dawn got home with her sister. Yes. And all this happening and nobody, nobody's really telling Dawn anything. It's soul food. Okay. Can I say, and so the anniversary of soul food was no, what did I tell it was last year? I think soul food is this year or the next year.

[00:16:16] There is a sort of like soul food renaissance where people have said, do you understand that Terry? Was not the villain. Was not the villain. That's what it felt like. Like, like Dawn was Terry. Dawn was Terry and that automatically Terry's money. Can I curse on this podcast? Yes, you can. The family fucked my husband. Thank you. Yup. Yup. That is my lie every day.

[00:16:44] Be like, every time I be fighting for a show, I be like, that's the family. Fuck the family. I left family in my house and family fucked my cousin. That's right. FIFO fucked my husband. Family fucked my husband. Vivica. Miles. Ugh. You know that. It's like, Vivica, you ain't no better either. You took her boyfriend. You took her boyfriend. I was like, Vivica, you're a bitch. Nobody respected Terry in that family. And big mama knew the money was always there in the house and letting Terry go. I mean, everything about it was gross.

[00:17:12] And so I look back at that now and Terry was like, yeah, did Terry like Dawn. My mom was definitely like big mama. Yeah. Oof. Does Terry like, like Dawn have, have her own issues? Is she kind of a snob? Sure. Does she kind of separate herself in many ways from her family? Sure. Is there a version of the truth that's played in her head that is not other people's? Yes. Has she been wronged? Oh, yes. Yes. Absolutely.

[00:17:41] And yeah, that's a little more complicated, but yeah, literally straight up Vivica stole her, stole her boyfriend now has the family she never had. Yup. That she never got to have. Come on now. You know, married, you know, stupid miles. Oh, miles. Anyway. Miles is crazy. It's stupid. Cousin Faith in her wig, you know, and her bandana all dancing. And I'm like, I saw that in the theater. I'm like, no, don't do it. Don't. Oh, dang nabbit. But yeah, it's very much.

[00:18:10] And I think cinematically. So I very much, I don't know if I purposely thought of Terry, but that makes so much sense. That makes so much sense. As I was reading it, I was like, what in the soul food? That's what it felt like. That's what it felt like. So that's definitely what I was feeling. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. And not inaccurate. Not inaccurate. Hey. So you've described your column as being about discussions we don't usually have. Yes.

[00:18:38] Uh, Dawn, we see you is a journalist. Yes. It's not you, but it's like meta. She out there. Yeah. How much of Dawn's stubbornness about truth telling is, is me? I think a lot of it. Okay. And I think like Dawn, you know, I started out saying I wanted to like, you know, topple presidencies and do all this stuff. And then I sort of settled into a more features thing.

[00:19:05] Now my column is like, it's, it's, it's featuresy. It's also newsy. It's a lot of things. It's very Baltimore. Yes. I mean, we've taken a much more Baltimore turn with it, but I think. Which I appreciate. Thank you. Thank you. I truly believe that Dawn wants to tell the truth and I want to tell the truth. I'll just say this as a black woman who grew up in Baltimore, there were not any black female columnists in the ball at the Baltimore sun.

[00:19:31] There was one black columnist with Gregory, Gregory Kane, uh, shout out to Mr. Kane, the late Gregory Kane. I went to high school with his daughter. Um, and when I came back, the idea of being able to talk about things that are relevant to everybody, but from my perspective where it was very true because it's like when you have columnist, you go, whose truth is it? Whose truth? You know? And I think truth is yet. Did this happen? Did this not? That's truth.

[00:19:59] Also the way that I see things, you know, from my perspective at my age, being a woman, being raised here, being raised in city schools, um, having very much of a, an open-mindedness to things, but understanding that that open-mindedness was built on the backs of people who did not

[00:20:21] have the same privileges that I had, you know, and that they, people, Ida B. Wells at all, you know, went forward so I could, you know, do things. They always say so-and-so walk so you could run, you know? Yeah. And I, I, I, and I, I believe that. And I believe that part of what I'm supposed to do, I don't believe in like over explaining things. Like I'm the book that I'm writing, I had, there was a line where I refer, someone refers

[00:20:51] to someone, call me your government name, my government name. And my editor was like, well, people know what that means. Yeah. Yeah. And because we know what that means and I don't feel the need. So I put on threads, does everyone know what that means? And 85% of black, 95% of black people and 70% of white people were like, yeah, I know what that means. And somebody was like, well, if you don't explain it, probably just black people read your book and you won't have an audience. I was like, I was like, that's a risk I'm willing to take.

[00:21:21] I was like, I too read books that are not targeted towards me. And I know how Google works. Correct. You know how many times like I read books and they don't translate languages at all. And I'm just like, well, that's what I got this Kindle for. I can hit that translation button real quick or look it up on Google. If it's important to you, you will look it up. And if it's not important to you, you're telling me that it's not important enough to you look at them, then I don't have to worry about you. Accurate.

[00:21:50] So you came back to Baltimore. Let's keep it on Baltimore. You came back to Baltimore in 2020. Now you write Baltimore stories for the banner. Did returning home unlock something for you for this book? It really did. And that part of the Dawn part that is me is the returning home. Right. I came home in 2020 when everything was crazy. You know, we took the, my mother and I were, who was my co-parent and my son and I, who

[00:22:19] was six at the time, were living in West Palm Beach. Things were not going great at the newspaper that I was working for, the Palm Beach Post. They had a bunch of layoffs. We had a furlough for a couple months, like every week, once one week a month for three months, we were unpaid on furlough. And I was like, I can't do this. My book came out, Black Widow came out literally a week before lockdown and did not do as well as I had hoped because I was supposed to be on the today's show. It was supposed to be all these things. Everything got canceled like at once. I was like, this isn't great. Oh.

[00:22:49] So my mother was dating the man who is now her husband, who they had gone to Fairmont Heights High School with my dad in Prince George's County, went to Morgan. She and Mr. Larry broke up. She dated my dad, married him. My dad died in 2012. She and Mr. Larry got back together. They were seeing each other long distance because she was living with me. And so she was ready to go home. My grandmother, who's now no longer with us, was still hanging out in P.G County. She, I'm sorry.

[00:23:17] I have to correct myself because of my cousin, Angela also works Prince George's County. I'm not supposed to say P.G. You know, shout out, shout out, Angie. You know, my mother wanted to come home and it was just, we were home for six months before I hugged anybody, you know, cause everyone was still masked and there was no. It was a rough time. It was really rough, but I felt like, I felt like I, the banner didn't exist yet.

[00:23:45] And I, you know, did some, I worked at a, like a PR thing for six months and it was not good at it. I quit. And then I freelanced for a while, including for the Washington Post. So at the time the banner called, reached out to me in February, uh, 2022, I felt I had been back in Baltimore just long enough to write about Baltimore again. I felt like I had dipped my toe back in enough and I was still learning some things, learning like the places to go and who was where and what was going on. And so.

[00:24:14] You have to re-acclimate yourself as someone who also moved back from D.C. to here. Yes. And as an adult, cause you know, you, we grew up here, but like being an adult here is so different. And you know how us Baltimoreans are. We don't let you know the spots. You gotta be in community before you know the real spots. You gotta be in community. You gotta talk to people. They go, Oh, look at you. Okay, great. So where, where did you grow up in Baltimore? I grew up in, um, Gwen Oak. Okay.

[00:24:42] So I was, I went to Emerson Heights Elementary. Oh, excellent. Um, and then middle, I went to St. Agnes on Route 40. Um, they don't exist anymore. Which doesn't exist anymore cause you know, archdiocese. Uh, but my mom and my grandmother, well, my mom, my grandmother's house was on Montpelia. Okay. So I would spend every, almost every other day over there. So I was like a, um, a suburb in a city kid at the same time.

[00:25:10] I grew up in Northwood, um, near Morgan. So between, um, Hillen on Sunwood road between Hillen and the Dawn in the book lives in my house. Um, I wrote about. I was looking, I was like. I wrote about. I was like, okay, I know where this is. Yeah. My, my parents went to Morgan. I wrote about Morgan. Morgan was too close. It was literally like 15 minutes. That's we, we understand each other. You know, that's why I went. Cause my mama would have had me living at home.

[00:25:38] If I went to Towson or Morgan, I'm not doing that. I'm looking out of here. But my fiance ended up going there for his PhD. So it all comes full circle in the end. That's awesome. I love that. I love that. Um, I want to talk about, there's this idea that's heavy to me in the book and ever present about leaving. Um, just physically being gone, seize the ground for people to write their own story about you. Dawn left Baltimore, left her family.

[00:26:08] And in her absence, everyone made their assumptions. Absolutely. Do you think Dawn understood what she was doing when she left? Absolutely not. Uh, you make decisions. She, and those of you haven't read the book, she makes a very pivotal decision in her early twenties to just up and leave. She's, um, fallen in love with this guy she shouldn't be falling in love with. She is betrayed by a friend who has stolen a story from her. And she knows that she's probably screwed at work.

[00:26:35] And she's like, let's do a crazy early nineties, romantic comedy thing and just leave. And she leaves her sister who is the whistleblower on the story that she is writing about that has now been stolen from her. Leaves her in a lawyer. She doesn't tell anybody, leaves her lease just like up and goes. And because it's easier than explaining your way out of the mistakes that you've made. And yes, it does. I understand now we, you understand when you're 12, you leave the room and there's three

[00:27:04] of your friends over here in the room. They can say anything about you that they want to, right? Correct. And so it's writ larger when you're older. And so you kind of figure, you know, that's, that's one of the themes of the movie. The book to me is that, cause it should be a movie. Oh, the book to me is that. It would be a good movie or a limited series. It would be so fun. I mean, that you've got your version of the truth and everyone else's version of the truth.

[00:27:33] And all of them are probably right. But if you've convinced yourself for however many years, cause you didn't have anybody else's voice in your ear. Mm-hmm. Your version is not going to seem as familiar when you come back and you try to sell it to the people that you left, particularly because they've all had years to, you know, compare notes and write their version. And no, she doesn't understand it. And she comes back kind of expecting people to see her side. Cause she's written herself as the person who did what I had to do for love.

[00:28:03] And they were like, nah, it didn't work for us. Um, yeah, it's aging is interesting. And the stories that you tell yourself about your life, you have to be prepared to defend them when you come back. Woof. That's a, that's a word. Yes. That's a word in the ministry. It's true. I'm learning that more and more and more. And I'm understanding more about my parents as well as my grandparents. Because they're people, they're humans who made decisions about things.

[00:28:33] And the best thing that has ever happened to me is that I've gotten a chance. I got the chance and so many of them are gone now, you know, to get to know people and talk to them as humans and say, like, my grandmother who died in 2024, 2023, um, talking to her about like her marriage, which ended when I was very young and to talk to her.

[00:28:56] My sister said that she was listening to, um, gosh, it was Sheryl Crow, I think had done a version, a live version of the four C the fifth dimensions, one less bill to answer. One less bill to answer. And my grandmother is listening with my sister. She goes, that reminds me of my marriage. My mother's like, my sister's like, what? Cause it's just a very personal thing. My grandmother was like, what?

[00:29:25] She was not that person, but she understood without she, her having to elaborate on anything else about what it's like to have been, to be in a longterm marriage. And then you think you should be happy because this person is gone. It's less work for you. But all I do is cry. Yes. So. I love that. Oh, it's okay. So like having these conversations with people, to your family about what these things meant to them and what these songs meant to them.

[00:29:55] And what this car meant to them and what this movie meant to them, what this book meant to them is such a gift. Um, and it's something all you're listening, talk to your elders. Cause they're not going to be around forever. They're not. I know it sucks. It does suck. It really does. And I want to talk about, um, Oh, let's switch gears. Let's talk about Joe. Oh, Joe. I know.

[00:30:24] So he's probably one of the most charming. Yes. Characters. Right. Um, and this is a good question to sit with. Like why should charm carry so much weight in journalism and in any professional space? Dawn, uh, uh, got out maneuver partly because she underestimated Joe's likability. Absolutely. And would protect him.

[00:30:50] And is that a critique of people? A critique of the industry? Or both? It's both, I think. And she refers to him as like evil Morris chestnut and you know, Yeah. And so you understand that this is a very smooth black man. This is a very charming, deep voice, good looking. And even though they're not romantically linked there, he's charming.

[00:31:19] I think charm has a lot to do with it, whether or not you are successful in journalism and other things, because people have to trust you. They look you in the eye and say, I'm going to tell you a thing. I probably shouldn't tell you. Right. I'm going to tell you a thing that could risk my job. I'm going to tell you a thing that could risk my status. And being able to charm, I'm charming, but I'm like, you know, Susie Cruz.

[00:31:45] Uh, I was never like that kind of hot, but I knew a lot of guys who were like that of any race. Cause they were just like, smile at you and you know, they charmed the old ladies. They charmed the young ladies. They charmed the dudes. It was what it was. You either want it to be with them or be them. And there was very much that exists because that whatever you have to do to let people in, to have people let you in the room is what you have to do.

[00:32:15] And you know, he makes some wrong choices because it becomes harder for him than he thought. So he has to tell a little lie, do a little thing, steal a little story, a big story, you know, but then you're able to talk people into it. You're able to be like, Hey, you know, and I think unfortunately for a lot of people, particularly in what works in print,

[00:32:39] where Joe starts up, but also he goes into broadcast. If you can sit with someone with a camera and make them feel comfortable and make them feel like you're the only person in the room and you're talking directly to them. And that translates into what's on the screen, off the screen and people who are watching you behind the screen. All of that feels very comforting and it feels, you know, and then I've had people, you know, call me and go, I can't believe I told you that.

[00:33:08] And I go, huh? Cause I'm not trying to, yeah, I'd rather you tell me cause it's good for my story, but I've never tried to trick anybody or, you know, but there are times where you go, I really hope she keeps talking. I really hope they keep talking. And, uh, I've had people who were like, can you, can you delete that? I'm like, no.

[00:33:30] I mean, there are times where you have to make that concession if they've really thought about, okay, I really could lose my job and they have to go back to my editor and then try to figure something else out. But, um, Joe is a person who is not used to being told no in any part of his life.

[00:33:48] Hmm. So that's interesting because Joe's not used to being told no. Um, however, Don believes like what he did to her was the worst thing ever. And so throughout the book, she's struggling with her own morality. Yes. Um, but what she doesn't realize is the cost. No.

[00:34:13] Is, uh, so especially how uncovering the truth can hurt people. Like you just said, charm, letting people in the room. She also did. She used her trust to get something. And now she uncovered the truth. And then, and this exposes that journalism isn't always clean. No. How can you be right and still cause damage? Did you want to sit in that discomfort and like really reckon with that question?

[00:34:42] That is very. About the novel? You know, I did because, you know, the, in the story, for those of you who haven't read it, uh, Don's sister knows something that's happening bad in Baltimore city government. And she tells her and she's hoping that she'll let her write about it. And she goes, fine. And so she's not really thinking about how this could affect her sister, how this could affect her sister's boyfriend who, who is involved, but who goes to jail for a while. She's only thinking about the story.

[00:35:12] You know, oh, Percy. She's only thinking about herself and she gets carried away. So then it gets taken away from her, but there's still a fallout and she's not there to mute it. She's not there to say, all right, who can we protect? Can I write something else? What can we do? Whatever. And she just splits and leaves this fallout for her sister and her sister's boyfriend and the city government and everyone to kind of sit with and to deal with.

[00:35:41] And she's literally on a plane out of here. And there, there always is a cost to those stories. There's always a cost. Even when done with the best intentions, someone's going to lose their job. Someone's going to go to jail. Someone's going to maybe, you know, something's got to happen. And when you tell stories, there's collateral damage, which is what it becomes and what her sister becomes and what her sister's boyfriend.

[00:36:09] And he's guilty, but, you know, not as guilty as some other people. And so there is very much a, she will, Dawn believes that she should be absolved by just leaving. And it's not, her hands are not clean. Even though she's right, her hands are not clean in that.

[00:36:31] So what, so in the book, I found it interesting who ultimately holds Dawn accountable and brings her to her own awareness of the situation and message she left in cause and left behind is Bria James. So Bria is the one who holds Dawn accountable most directly telling her she can't be a boss and then helpless damsel at the same time. You can't, you can't, you can't be both. Pick a struggle. Pick a struggle.

[00:37:00] Um, did you always know that Bria was going to be the one? It do that. What's so funny is Bria was originally Brian. Bria was originally a dude. Okay. And my editor, um, said, Hey, listen, I feel like there should be a younger woman in this. And I went, okay. So it was a challenge for me to, to change her.

[00:37:29] But when, once I realized that Bria was actually a woman, it made sense to me that she as a young woman could speak to Dawn about who Dawn thought she was versus who she actually was. Because she could see herself. Um, younger people have a real way of like cutting through the fat and just telling you about yourself, you know, whether you want to hear it or not.

[00:37:57] And she's like, she's a younger journalist and she's got a different, um, a different path. You know, there are not as many places to work or things to do. It's a much harsher landscape for young journalists than it was when I was coming up in the nineties and when Dawn was coming up in the nineties. And so for her to be like, listen, not for nothing. You want to talk truth. Let's talk truth.

[00:38:22] And that made so much sense to me because I have some younger, um, female reporters that I mentee and they'll just ask, they're not meaning to be rude. They just ask a question. You're like, ah, dang it. I just did something I didn't realize.

[00:38:40] But yeah, Bria was a really good thing for me, a really good person for me to explore because I had to explore some of my biases about the business and where it is now. And younger people in general, once again, I found like, get off my lawn, you know, off my lawn with my cane. Oh, I'm getting there too. I'm like, dang. But no, she's, she's, she was really important to me.

[00:39:05] And I thought that I let some younger people, the age of that character read it. And she, she felt real to them. And I was like, good. Cause I don't want to, you know, when people write, sometimes when you write a younger character or an older character and they seem very stilted and they seem like you've never actually met a younger or older person. Yeah. I wanted to make sure that wasn't the case with her. No, you did a very, very good job. It felt like a, um, like a rebirth in a way.

[00:39:34] And like justice is being served, um, because Dom was treated so poorly and now she gets to redeem herself. She gets to redeem herself. Yes. I love that. I love that. So let's talk about upcoming projects. So what's next? My next novel, I, they're doing it again. Um, coming out in October, I believe also from Lake Union Press is, um, Lake Union Publishing is called Chicory Coffee.

[00:40:01] And it's a new, or it's about a group of women from Baltimore, ages 16 to their seventies who go to New Orleans, um, per the direction of their grandmother who has died. And if they do not take this trip and uncover some truths, nobody gets any money. Oh, I love that. Cause nobody's gonna go off the, you know, money involved. Right. And I, New Orleans is just such a special place.

[00:40:29] Gosh, it's like one of those, it's like one of my favorite cities in the world. It's very, it reminds me of Baltimore and that it's very black. It has, it's very, people come and think they see what they see on the surface, but there's so much more to it. The first time I went, I was in my thirties, about your age. I went on a bachelorette trip with a friend. The second time I was on like a foodie trip in my mid forties ish, um, with a good friend.

[00:40:58] I went last summer. I went twice. I went with my son and one of my best friends and her husband took the train down, which is a long trip. It was really fun. And we did like the aquarium, the swamp tour and all that stuff. And then I went with my other best friend, um, in October and we did all the other stuff. We did, uh, we found a second line and we went to the Whitney plantation. Oh, I was going to say that.

[00:41:24] Oh my, the best and most beautiful site that anybody will ever see. Like, my God. It was so important. And the characters in the book at one point go. And like us, they took a tour bus. They took, we took this tour bus and it took us, you know, from downtown to the plantation.

[00:41:47] And there's another plantation called Oak Alley, which is much more the gone with the wind antebellum fantasy. It's all pretty and whatever. And so we glared at this people and they got back on the bus. We're like, Hmm. Not y'all having a whole thing on a death camp. Key can on death camp. So my favorite story of like the last couple of years was when the, um, other plantation burned down. Yes. I knew that's where you were going.

[00:42:15] And I was like, yeah, ancestors, let's go. And it stopped burning. And then it burned again. The answer's like, oh, no, no, no. Oh. Yeah. And at that time, I just read, uh, Blood Slaves by Marcus Redmond. And I was like, yes, burn it down. Burn it all. Oh, we're just going to have a wedding here. No, you're not. No, you're not. No, you're not. I hope Tales of the Crypt come and bite you. Come and bite you. Yes. So don't do that, y'all. Don't get married on a death camp.

[00:42:45] Don't. Just stop taking your prom pictures there. It's stupid. Stop it. It's icky. It's so icky. But where can the people find you? They can find me everywhere. I am at BaltimoreBanner.com or TheBanner.com, depending on which, what you're looking. I am at LeslieGrayStreeter.com, which I need to update. I'm LeslieGrayStreeter on almost all of your socials, Threads, Blue Sky, Instagram.

[00:43:09] I quit TikTok because, you know, I didn't want to sign their new whatever policy thing. I'm also, because I'm old, I'm on the Facebooks. I'm on the Facebooks. Um, and basically you just like Google me and I pop up. LeslieGrayStreeter. I love that. Everywhere. Yes. So before we head out, rapid fire questions. Ooh, let's do it. Dawn's most redeeming moment in the book.

[00:43:36] Ooh, I think when she, um, talks to her sister, even though her sister doesn't immediately get it. And it explains that she's gone behind her back again and talked to her ex-boyfriend. And she really is trying, she's in that basement when everybody comes downstairs and is yelling at her through the door and she's trying to make it right. Cause she understands it's not just about getting her away. It's about making it right. I love that. Joe's worst moment. All of them? No.

[00:44:02] Um, I think lying to her and telling her that his mother is sick when really he's in, in process of stealing her story and also making her look stupid in front of his girlfriend. She doesn't like Vanessa. Yes. That's the one. The scene that was the hardest to write. Anything involving Dale? Cause Dale is like a stand-in for my late husband, Scott.

[00:44:31] So even though he is not, he, he did not look like that. I describe Dale as looking kind of like a young Ethan Hawke. Uh, my husband, when he was in high school, kind of looked like a beastie boy. Um, completely different than he was, than he looked like, I used to say he looked like sexy grew cause he was bald. I was like, look at you looking like sexy grew. And he's like, I don't like that. I'm like, but you, look at you with the bald head. All you need is an accent. Be evil. Steal the moon.

[00:44:58] Anyway, so, uh, look at you stealing the moon. Um, it's true. Um, those things were hard to write just because I had to go, oh, widow stuff. Um, but I'm, I'm glad that I, I'm glad that I, I wrote them and I'm glad Dale is not Scott, but he, the missing is real. Hmm. Christian Serrano deserves his flowers. Agree or disagree?

[00:45:27] All of the flowers. This man, first of all, Balmer, uh, Balmer school for the arts, uh, graduate. Christian Serrano makes clothes. When he did that dress for Leslie Jones years ago, when she was like, no one will trust me. I'm too tall. I'm too big. I'm too black. No one's going to dress me. And he said, what do you need queen? And from then on, he's gone on to dress so many people, but he remains his muse.

[00:45:55] And he's this little dude from Annapolis, right? Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. He had a platform and he reached out first of all. It's not just good marketing. It's good. It's good energy to say he saw my brand will. I will only be enriched by working with you. Not my, it will damage my brand. Not I'm doing you a favor. It's like, I want to be the kind of brand that takes a Leslie Jones and makes her look

[00:46:25] more beautiful than she ever looked in her life. And so he has all the flowers, all the flowers. All the flowers. He deserves them. Janet Jackson's song that best describes this book. Ooh. What have you done for me lately? Absolutely. Oh. Um, again, which is my favorite, which is my favorite. That, that's the whole regretting and people being inevitable part. Um, control.

[00:46:55] Period. Period. Oh my gosh. Whoa. Y'all, Leslie Grace Treaters, Families and Other Calamities is available now. Read it. Then call your sister or don't. But at least understand why you haven't. And then go read Black Widow because she's been doing this for a long time and it shows. And I would love to thank you so much for coming on the show. Oh, I've been looking forward to this so much. Thank you so much for having me. Hope to do it again when the next one comes out. Yes. Yes.

[00:47:25] And I cannot wait. And with that, y'all, that's another episode of Dot Dot Dot. But make it books. Keep healing, but always stay literature. You like what I did there? Love that. Bye, y'all. Bye.

[00:47:48] Your ancestor story is proof that strength and dignity endure even when everything else is taken away. When it comes to honoring that legacy, your privacy should never be in question. At AfricanAncestry.com, your story and your information belong to you. We destroy every DNA sample and never sell or share your data with anyone.

[00:48:12] Discover where in Africa your story began accurately and safely with AfricanAncestry.com. What's going on, family? This is Derek Young. And Ramonda Young. Owners of both Mahogany Books and the Mahogany Books Podcast Network. We really want to thank each and every one of you for listening to this episode. And if you enjoyed what you just heard, drop us a review and rate us on whatever platform you download podcasts on.

[00:48:39] We truly appreciate each and every one of you for supporting us and making us your go-to for Black books. And we look forward to connecting with you all sometime in the future. Thank you again, fam. And always remember, Black Books Matter.