The Journey to Self Through Books... (w/ Book Influencer LaKia Barr)

Hey y'all. I'm NRA and welcome to another episode of dot.dot, but make it books a podcast where we are, bookish healing through life. Come on y'all. Let's go healing. All right, y'all. Hey y'all. It's another episode of.dot. But make it books. I'm your bookish host in all things Naka Campbell, and I'm so proud and blessed to be in the space and place with all the you guys. You could be anywhere in the world and you're listening pleasures, but you decided to listen to us. And so I am super excited because I have a book influencer, another fellow black Girly who loves. Books joining me today, uh, Lakia Barr, and I am so excited. So as we start everything with but making books, how you feeling? I'm feeling really good. I'm excited. I'm ready to talk. I'm ready to chat. Yes, yes, yes. We'd love to hear. So in our form of. An icebreaker 'cause I'm from Baltimore. We call ours a snowball. Okay. So what's the best beauty product you have bought recently? Ooh, that is a good one. Okay, so this is gonna be real simple. This is not anything fancy. Okay. But the thing that I bought most recently, it's um, it's a skin serum. It's called, oh gosh, it's papaya. Ooh Ava. Um, made by Shea Moisture and it's like just vitamin C drops like a serum for your skin. Yeah. And I started using it weeks ago. Mm-hmm. And I love how it has brightened up my skin. You're glowing, so thank you. I mean, it's so smooth and I put it on in the morning and at night before I go to bed. Mm-hmm. And it's no wonders for my skin. I love it. Okay. Okay. We love hear it because listen, I'm a vitamin C, girly 'cause. The doll eyes really listen, but the topicals under eye mask gets, gets the girl together. Yes. And I wore out one day I was hungover, had a baseball cap on. I had the topicals under eye mask. Yeah. And I was walking around like fasc sa So shout out, shout out to them for making it cute. 'cause I was like, uh, yes, I look like a car. Oh man. We love it when black women, black women. Yes. Yes. We love to see it. We love it. So let's just get into a little bit about you. So Sure. Lakia Barr is an accountant by trade. Yes. And a book Connoisseur by Passion. She's an arc reviewer, author, interviewer, and a host of Keys Corner Book Club. She's made it her, made it her mission to get people excited about books. Books have the power to not only change your mind, but they can change your life. And so that's what I wanna start with. Okay. You said that books have the power to not only change your mind, but they can change your life. Can you share a book that might have fundamentally changed your perspective on yourself? I. Oh, that's a good one. Um, I had two books. I have two books in mind, but what I'll go with is something a little more recent. Um, if I know a lot of us are familiar with Kennedy Ryan and her book, I love her. Me too. I'm obsessed. She's so sweet. And I'm, I'm obsessed with her. Just a genuine spirit. Oh my gosh. And so I've been reading the Skyland series and it was. Book two that did it for me. Ooh. The book, this Could Be Us mm-hmm. Was a book that shifted things for me significantly. Okay. And, and I'll explain it this way. I'll say, um, I don't wanna give, tell me more. Okay. Yeah. I, I'm, I'm. Well, I don't, I won't, I don't wanna spill too much just in case somebody hasn't read the book. But what I will say is the main character has gone through a major change in her personal life. Mm-hmm. Major. Yeah. Where she literally has to rebuild her life. Right. And she, you know, she's questioning herself about the decisions that she made in her past and how she's going to move forward as far as finding her power, finding her voice. And, and tapping into the things that she's passionate about. Right? And so for me personally, I was at sort of a crossroads myself at the time of reading the book, but mine was more about health. It was about my personal health journey. Wow. And I found myself saying, okay, the way you've been living your life is not healthy. Yeah. You've gotta make some changes. You've gotta go back to who you are. What? What do you love? What are you passionate about? What feeds you? Right? You? Yes. What feeds you? You busy. That's why I call jobs now. It's like, what? I don't wanna know. What keeps you busy? What keeps you. Exactly, exactly what is feeding me. Mm-hmm. And just looking up and realizing as I'm reading the book, I said, wow, Kia, you lost your voice. Like you stopped advocating for yourself. You stopped speaking to yourself positively, reinforcing yourself. You forgot about what you love, what you like, what you're passionate about. Yeah. I just got caught up in the career things and the family things, and I just completely forgot about me. I got lost in there. So when I was reading her story, I said, wow, I've gotta do that. I've gotta go back to, okay, what is it about you that makes you you, that makes you special? Yes. What are whatcha passionate about? What, what lights you on fire? What, what just sets you apart from the rest? And just go back to those things and. It just shift. Like I said, it shifted things for me. It was transformative for me. I asked myself some really deep questions and I got the answers, and I just started taking the steps just like she did just one by one, and I found myself. Proud of myself, myself at the end of the day. Like You did that girl, you did that. What's the other book you said? You said you had two. I had to, yes. So this book I read, um, probably a couple years ago. It's a book called A Woman of Endurance by Dalma Yanos Fi. I have that. Oh, you do? Oh, I'm pretty, let me, let me grab it. Hold on. Because I, oh my gosh, that's so exciting. Oh, let me see. Ah, yes, you have it. You have it. It's on my TV R it's on my TV R though, y'all. It's on my TV R. It's like, I love this. I bought the cover because it was so beautiful. It is dark, but it's beautiful. And it is beautiful. So I know I need to read this because. Yes, I'm, I'm the queen of buying some books and uh, listen, I buy books and they just be sitting somewhere like I know I need to get to that before I buy another one to have, at least it's feeding us. Right. So, okay. So why was this book? 'cause I'm going on vacation soon, so I need to be on a beach. Okay. Alright. I know I can finish four books on vacation sometimes if I got a copy. In, in a, yeah. Hot chair and some AirPod. So why did this, I'll mute you. So that one, and it's historical fiction and it's, it's very heavy. So it, it is, it's one of those, it's emotional. Mm-hmm. It kind of takes you through because there's some traumatic stuff happening, but it was. Her journey. For me, it was what if you forget about all the horrific things that she endured and certain things that's kind of like heartbreaking. It was how she moved at her own pace. Hmm. She did not allow how other people were responding to her to change her pace of how she healed. And I thought that was so important for me to learn. Because being a, a nurturer and a person who loves my family and love my friends, mm-hmm. Um, I have a tendency to, if they tell me something or I'm listening to what they say, it kind of influences how I move sometimes. Mm-hmm. And so when I saw that this main character, no matter how broken or torn up she may have been mm-hmm. It was necessary for her to move at her own pace, even if it seemed like it was too slow for somebody else. And so it's just like, okay, I can't. Honor myself and honor my truth, just moving at my own pace. I may not move as fast as somebody thinks I should, but I'm learning the lessons that I need to learn along the way, and I don't have to be afraid of it because at the end, there's love, there's beauty, there's life, and so it, it just taught me to be more fearless and more graceful with myself and more patient with myself. Cool. So, yeah. Yeah. Patient with yourself is a big one. It's big. It's huge. Yes. It's huge. It's huge. Uh, because it's crazy how much grace we extend to others, but we don't even extend that same grace to ourselves. Yes. And it's really sad. It's just so funny. I had. Two books recently that really transformed me. Yeah. Um, one was Isaac Song by Daniel Black. Ooh, doctor, excuse me. Dr. Daniel Doctor. Yes. It was not in his book. I'm gonna call him Doctor because he got that PhD. Um, that's right. And that changed my life because, you know, it helped me realize that my parents are also operating on one life a like Yes. Are are doing for the first time and, yeah. It took me a while. 'cause sometimes as a kid you think your parents should have had it all figured out. 'cause why would they have it Right and not have it all figured out. But then, right. This book really made me realize that our parents are only living with one life as well. They're only dealing one. That's story that they only know of. Yes. Only going based on the lineage. Of whatever happened in, in our family shared history and their line, now that is my bloodline. And so it's me to decide that life isn't just happening to me. How do I promise all those things? And then the last book I just read, um, was Zeal by Morgan. Uh, jerk. Yeah, Jerkins. Okay. And it just came out. Okay. And it's, I can check that out. It's like, um, it's historical, but it's also like, has modern contemporary romance in there, but it is a historical Okay. Uh, what they call literary romance. Okay. Like the pro, yeah. Wasn't insane actually, because you are a reader like me. I had to book this because this was insane. So it was like after they had like a argument. And he said, are you awake? Isaac Acts? His voice was deeper. First thing in the morning. In the morning. That sound full like a bass, slow, like molasses and rich like moose made Ezra's inner thighs thro. Oh. That's just one thing that where I'm like, this book is definitely top book of 2025. But oh my, for me. It was. It was that beautiful. But what I, I gotta read that. Oh, you do. What I realized in that book too is just like being more open to understanding and love and not rushing. Yeah. How taking into account or affect how your partner may feel, and also partner, making sure they're taking into account on how they feel. And that love shouldn't be hard. For Right. For us, for black people. Black Americans. Right. And particularly because all the things that we have had to endure. Mm-hmm. That now there's nothing really separating us in the same way that it was separating folks right back then who were newly freed. Right. Did not know where people were exactly. Lost their family. So we only have, it is our job then to love as boldly and as wildly and as a revolutionary as it comes. Yes, because not that long ago, literally, this book is like two, three generations and my grandmother can still remember her grandmother being enslaved. Wow. Ooh. Yeah, we're not that far away from it. We're not that far away. We're not. So it is our job to love as bullying as freely as we can. So, absolutely, yes, I do. I love that. I can't wait to read that. Oh, it's gonna, yes. You won't cry a couple times, but it, I promise there it's still a romance, so there is happiness. Okay. Okay. Romance. So having someone who balances a career like yours, yes. How, and with your creative passion for books, how does this dual identity like shape your approach to like self-discovery? Ooh, well, for one, working with numbers and working with facts and, you know, just having, how can I word this? It, it can be sort of like. You need to, you need some light, you need something, you need something else. It's like, I need that right side of my brain, um, and having the career that I have. And so what I've found is that I'm much more well-rounded. Um, my passion for books and me reading the things that I read, I have this hunger. Mm-hmm. And this desire to tap in to that other side of myself because my career demands this other side of me. Mm-hmm. Um, and because I don't want to neglect that side of myself because I don't, you know, of course you gotta do what you gotta do for a living, but. When it comes to, you know, that self discovery and doing those deep dives and, you know, figuring out who you are, how you can grow, it's again, it, it forces me to, to reach for it. It's like I find myself like, oh, I need this, I need to learn something else about myself. I need. To, you know, sometimes get comfortable with my shadow self and do the work, that sort of thing. So, and hunger for knowledge. It's that hunger for that knowledge. Hunger for growth. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. And hosting your book club with that growth and self discovery. Yeah. What book discussions have you felt like have led to the most profound moments of collective? Ooh, yes. That's a good question. Um, I love that question. There have been some months where, like, for example, I remember when my book club was reading Jane Allen's Black Girls mm-hmm. Series Black Girls Must Die Exhausted. Um, we were reading, we were going through that series. We had some of the most rewarding conversations during that time. Mm-hmm. Because we were really just, and we were all black women. And we were, we were just discussing how we all tended to have the same experiences, that we weren't alone. Mm-hmm. And even though we felt like we were, at the time we weren't. Right. We had this shared experience. Mm-hmm. And we were just, you know, as we're talking about what the characters going through and the friends and the stories, we were able to find this common thread. We were able to. Get strength, gain strength from each other. Just sharing our experiences and how striving for excellence, striving for success in your career, trying to have a family. All these things that you say you wanna do. And of course you got, you got racism, you got some sexism, you got stuff that's being thrown in there. Size noir is a who, oh my gosh, to threat. I dunno. Ever heard of that? I read at least like month to month. Yeah. I've lived through that very real and I'm just like, these type of experiences that just being in that book club and being able to talk about it freely. Mm-hmm. It just felt, it was like a breath of fresh air for all of us to be able to speak our truth and to not hide it, to not be ashamed, to not feel guilty, to not, you know, any of those negative things. We were able to. Actually just affirm each other and say, Hey, we're all living this life and we're doing the best we can. And it is okay if you si you say, I wanna live my life a certain way. Don't let anybody else's expectations, society, anything get in the way of that. We're in this together. So it was just that bond, that sisterhood. Um, it was just amazing having those conversations. I really love that. Yeah. And there's another. Point you are like an arc reader, which is for folks who don't know, that means advanced reader copies. So yes. Hit the copies before they hit the public. Right. So as you're reading arcs, what, what have you seen authors kind of touch on, like involving evolving trends that you've seen authors approaching themes of personal truth and authenticity. Hmm. Ooh, that's a good question. Um, one thing that just jumps out at me is, and I have been noticing this tendency to write in such a way where these characters are so unapologetic in Yes. What they do, how they live their life, even if it's flawed, even if it's crazy. Yes. They're just showing up as whoever they are. They're owning it. They are taking up. Space and I love it. I'm here for all of it because it's like, it is, I, I guess what I'm seeing is it's more real. It's relatable. It is not so much of a happily ever after. You still get that, but. I love seeing the raw, the real, the unfiltered, the uncensored, right? Um, it's like they're just pulling back the layers and you really feel like you're in somebody's house, you know? Yes. I, I've seen that the writing shift over time, and I'm here for it. I, I love it because that too also helps with self discovery when, as a reader, um, when you're, when you're seeing somebody. Who isn't on a pedestal, they're just a real person. They could be doing great things, but you. All sides of who they're, and it's like, you know what? They got some messiness. Like, I got some messiness. Yeah, I, I got this. You know, so that's what I have seen for sure. I've seen that. I was talking to one of my other friends about that recently and they said, man, I don't know if I like that person or in the book. I said, I dunno. I said, well, why? Let's, let's, let's, let's unpack why we don't like that. Right. Is it 'cause they trigger you? Is it because you don't like them? Like what? Yeah. Yes. And I'm trying to see what you're seeing. What you're saying right now is a lot of these black authors, which I love, they're writing some deeply flawed. Yes. Like I can name at least four off the top of my head. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Queenie. Mm-hmm. Uh, that's one book. Word Queenie. Yes. Everybody are messing up. Yes. Everybody, everybody, everybody. Everybody. Um, such a fun age. Oh, yes. That's a good one. Uh, luster. That's a good one because I was sitting there like, girl. Yeah. Are you watching their black? Like, what is going on? Yeah. You put your, your book down. I sometimes I just throw my book down, like I can't, I can't with this. I finished it, but I was like. I, this is not corny, but I understand it. I'm trying to think of some other books. I'm like, these, these people are just a mess. Seven days in June, the mama, Ooh, Ooh. Yes, yes. Oh my gosh. I think about books like that where I'm like, yeah. Yes. Mm, yes. You be screaming at people while you reading, you know? But then I'm like, well, why do I feel this way? Yeah, because, well, I didn't like the way her mama played but her. But we know people who would do that. We know people like that. Their daughter was in that same situation. Mm-hmm. And they don't want her to be around a certain person. Yeah. We know people like exactly. Exactly. Very flawed, very, you know, very caught up in the guise of like, or such a funny, it's like caught up in the guise of like, yeah, whiteness dating the white dude. Yes. Saying whatever. Yes. Yes. And you're like, I don't what's happening, make this a deal or not, because it does feel like one. Right. And I've been there before, like I've dated outside race and I'm like. Did you just say what I think he just said, right. Say that that's his friend. But I'm like, is he gonna check his friend? Let's just say this. Yeah. Relationship obviously didn't last that long. Um, got it. I'm like, did you check your friend about what he just said? Yeah. Yeah. Don't make it such a big deal. I'm like, uh, do you know, uh uh No, I'm black woman. Do you. Yeah. No social con like things in contracts, you're agreeing to be with me. That's right. Yep. Your person you are dating to be your girlfriend. Like right. There are things, there are things that come with that. There are things that come with that. There are things that, with those books I'm like. Yeah. You been a little stupid sometimes. I've seen that. Yeah. I've lived through some of that stuff. I'll be like, um, I dunno if this one is for me and it wasn't. Right. That's why they're not there anymore. That's why they're not there. Exactly. Why they are there. Um, how do you think the process of discovering hitting truths about ourselves differs when we encounter, encounter them in fiction versus nonfiction? Mm-hmm. Oh, I love that question. And it's so right on time because I literally just had this conversation with a friend. Oh. Um, they were asking, basically they were just asking me like, what is it about fiction that I love so much? Mm-hmm. Because I tend to, I, I usually talk about fiction more than I talk about nonfiction. Mm-hmm. And so my answer kind of, it goes right along with the questioning in my opinion as it relates to truth. When you're reading nonfiction, it's laid out for you. You don't really have to dig as much. Yes. With fiction, fiction causes you to do the work. It forces you to do the work because you're, you're really, you, you get into the story and for a lot of people, they want to escape when they read fiction. Mm-hmm. They wanna be entertained. But what happens is, as you, as you fall in love with the characters, as you get to know them, as you step into their life. When you take the time to self-reflect, you start saying, wait a minute, I've seen this in my life, right? Wait a minute, I've been this person before. I know people like this. Wait a minute, I think I have something to learn from this story. Right? Because that's what process, because the characters aren't real. Yeah. Right. And so I just, you know, and like I said, I love nonfiction as well, but I just believe that. Fiction is more like an adventure. Like if you're a person who loves knowledge, if you love searching for truth and searching for things, that's what fiction will do for you because you have to find the truth sometimes. It's not just going to be laid out there for you, especially if you have authors. Who are more skilled at weaving the truth within that storyline. Mm-hmm. So I, I just love, I love how fiction forces you to do the work and to place yourself inside those characters. Yeah. That's what I love about fiction. I do. I see exactly what you mean. Like the empathy, the understanding. You can, yeah. Sometimes more to a person who have no idea who they are because they're fake. Um, because they came, yeah. Quote unquote, imagination. Um, right. Not, and not to strongly quote them, it's just more so like, I believe sometimes it does come to you in imagination form, but it's your lived experiences that bring you to Right. Whatever work you are writing or pen. Yes. And so whether it's a news or article or whether it is, mm-hmm. Or whether it's a family heirloom and then you think about the story. Yeah. That it could tell, or something like that. Like Atlanta, right by um, uh, what's his name? Uh, childish Gambino. Like that? Yeah. Oh yeah. But we also know a lot of what was happening in there, although it was fiction. Lot of stuff was like, okay, that can explore like deeper what we're trying to seek or learn or understand. Same thing with the black mirror? Yes. Like mirror. It does a little bit too much for reality sometimes. I haven't watched a new season yet because I just don't, I don't feel I haven't either right now and I'm already scared. We already living in a simulation. We already, we already in a nightmare in five months. Yes. And I've been dying. I've been dying. Yes. Um, can you tell us about a time when a book revealed something to you about yourself that you haven't previously recognized or acknowledged? Which kind of plays into the last question. Oh my gosh. Ooh, that is such a good question. Oh my gosh. A. Ooh. Okay. So this is, this is hard. This is, this is a vulnerable type of question for me. So, um, I I, I was reading, oh my gosh, was it perfect peace. I wanna say it was perfect peace. There was perfect pace. Mm-hmm. And there was. Oh my gosh. This book called The Darkest Child by Dolores Phillips, I believe. Oh, I've heard of that word. I don't know if I'm ready to read that yet. That that book is, Ooh, that's I'll drag you to the night water and back. I'm telling you, that book is no joke that that book is a jerk me. So keep in mind heavy stuff. Mm-hmm. Some dysfunctional stuff. Lots stuff happening lot. Now I'm not saying I relate to any of the abuse or anything like that. That's not what I relate to. But what I did learn from reading stories where there was some, if you take just the actual abuse out, it's the mindset. Mindset. It's you having something and I'm speaking to myself. I was reading this book and I thought, wow, there's really something in me. That I haven't attended to, and it's causing me to treat people a certain way. Ooh. And that's a hard truth to realize about yourself. When I just had to say, wow, you know, I see that this person, they were unhealed. They did not. Address these issues, this trauma that they had in their life. And so now that they're having children and they're having a family and there are things that they're doing, they're passing down just because they didn't heal. And I said to myself at the time, I was reading and I was like, I may not be as crazy as this person, but I'm doing some things to people because I just didn't heal some stuff. I need to go back and do the work. Go sit on couch, as I say, go sit on that lay couch. And I did, honey, I got on that couch. I had to because it scared me. It was just like, I don't ever want to become an abusive person. I don't ever want to become a person that hurts other people, but I believe in hurt people. Hurt people. Yeah. So I, that's what, yeah, I, I learned that about myself. I said, wow, I may not be doing this extreme crazy stuff. But I do have the potential to do some damage and I need to take care of some things and that's, it really forced me to do my work. Mm. That was hard, but I had to do it. Ooh, yeah. Cicely Tyson's book started my catalyst or like really like, 'cause I was already sitting on that lady couch, but I needed to sit a little bit more on Lady Couch and Inly Tyson's memoir and everything she went through. And also how she treated her. Uh, like made me realize more about like mother daughter relationships. Yeah. And just like really unpacking a lot of stuff that I had. Yeah. And did I wanna be that person that carries that on? Right. Right. And that takes a lot. And it took a book to get me there and then, yeah. I think there the last book, like I said, Isaac song that really set me on to like my full, like, yeah, I'm open up. I'm open. Yeah, right. Was that one? I was like, yeah, dang. Not this book. Drag. Yeah, as well. I had to tell my therapist. I was like, girl, we be like girl. Yeah. I feel the same thing. I read this little book. I'm gonna need you to read it 'cause it is, it's only so many pages. Yeah. I read it and she said, what'd it teach you that you know, I need to afford my parents a little bit more grace. Yeah. That's a big one. Yeah. Like they are also living with one life. They, they, that's right. Starting out with their one life like I am as well. Exactly. That they didn't know everything. Right. You know, though they didn't heal because you know a lot of people in therapy, it's Oh yeah. No phenomenon. Um. Right. I should be thankful that my parent, my dad is even going to therapy. Oh, that's huge. Yeah. For that generation. That's huge. Come on. Like even they be like, my grandma still be like, why you gonna therapy? You better go talk to Well, the Holy Spirit, you know, give. Grandma. Okay, but you Deep South Baptist, she ain't Yeah. Oh, I know it. I know how that is. I don't believe none of that. She don't believe in none of that. Right? She's like, who y'all? I guess that's what you North. All we here. Yay. All we do that. It's something. It's something. Listen, she don't hold her tongue for nobody, and she don't need to, I mean, mean grandmas don't a certain age, don't say what you want. They get a certain, they say what they want. They say what they want. They earned it. They did. They did. They did. How do you think the relationship between, as we were just talking about before we or hit record, how do you think the relationship between readers and books will evolve in self discovery? The more we get in digital? Oh, like we are in a super digital, high digital, I think we would even say, I think we are, we get back into community. Yeah. But I think there is a disconnect. There is for sure with the digital space and yes, in self discovery and finding that's true self discovery. So how do you think, yeah, we as readers and books will evolve in that world? Well, and, and this could just be me being hopeful, but based on the conversations that I've seen, some of the threads that I've seen online in reader communities. What I'm finding is that there are people who desire community. They desire to learn more about themselves. More people starting to go to therapy. More people are, are focused on their healing. There are a lot of people of a certain age that are trying to tap back into who they really are. And so I think, and I, I hope I'm right, but what I see that gives me hope. It makes me feel good about the future as far as reading goes. There's more of a hunger for it. There are people who want it. There are people who are asking some really good questions online. Like I see it on threads. A lot of times I'm seeing the post that some people make and I'm like, wow, like that's really good. Like these are people sharing, like, Hey, I read this. Have you guys seen this in this book? Like, this is making me think about my life, about what I am doing. And I, and because, like you mentioned about this disconnect. I'm finding so many readers acknowledging that disconnect and being unhappy with it. And so that unhappiness and that discontent is actually driving more people to read more and to want to build community around books and reading. So I, I hope I'm right in saying that. I believe what we're going to see is this, um, returning this return. To the days of us, you know, getting together and talking about what we learned and Yeah. And just talking about, you know, how we're growing, what we're doing, how we're stretching ourselves, how we're challenging ourselves. I, I just think I see that happening. It may take a while, but I see it getting better. Yeah. I'm hopeful too. I think it was so funny, um, I had a work event with a bunch of influencers that mm-hmm. You are trying to get. Engaged in a political process when we try to make sure we pay them because these, yeah, these white influencers are making buckets, okay? Yes. Black influencers are expected to post things for free. Yes, that's right. And I'm like, no, we not doing that. No, we need to get paid too. You can pay her 5,000. You can pay me 5,000. That's right, that's right. My, my job. We always pay our influencers. We pay. Yeah. But it was very interesting, um, talking to some of the folks in the, in the folks there and um, this one young lady said that she got attacked on social media and she said, I wish someone just came to me in private. And corrected me and instead of just bashing me in public, right, and the more and more I read and we talked about grace and understanding and all those things, I have been more careful about how I use. My platform. Mm-hmm. And what I say online because Right. We don't know. This could be the pushing edge to push someone over. That's right. Or this could be why would I co truth and love and grace are all mixed together I believe. Yes, yes. And I do believe that like white people are always watching us. Yeah. They are. Talk negatively or talk down on my fellow brother or sister. Yeah, that's, I expect. Then the white person then to, right now, what I will say is we can't always be a community where every black person, Candace Owens, oh, we can't do that. You know, we can't do it. Once I correct you in private and you continue to go on this behavior in this Tyra, then we are gonna have a problem. Then I'm gonna have to just let the chopper fly. Like I had a deal time who, we went to college together. He said some weird stuff about. Trans people. And I said, maybe, do you realize what you're saying? And I had, I corrected them. We had a whole discussion Yeah. In the dms and I gave 'em a bunch of books to read. Okay. And come back to me later and everything down. And they have not posted anything negatively again about trans. Okay. And so you took, and you took he, but I hope that more people do that because then that might get more people to read. Yes. And acknowledge in a world that exactly much focus on, as we talked about before, non facts. Yes. Yes. Bring them to the fold where they don't get pushed to go down a rabbit hole that they don't need to be. 'cause that's exactly like you said before, books can change lives and they can change perspective. Absolutely. Absolutely. I just hope anybody listening, I know there's, I know it's good. Yes. A. Yeah, grab a ranch or hot sauce, whatever. But if we could bring somebody in and Yes. And in your ministry, then don't do it. But that's, that's what I plan to do, so I just Yes. What I got. Absolutely. So are there some books that you just find yourself recommending repeatedly to your followers or those in your community with who are at a crossroads in their life? Like, they're like, oh. What am I doing? Yeah, yeah. Um, it really goes back to the book I just mentioned. Kennedy Ryan, this could be us. And I know I keep saying that and I, and I know my people are tired of me saying it. Oh, but never get tired of you can't be, you can't be this, it's literally one of the most brilliant books I've read in recent years. It's just, it is the, the layers, it's the complexity. The first one is mine. Oh, I lo, oh, I love the first one. And I know Kennedy be talking about this all the time. I and know y'all were gonna be so mad. Forget Vashti and them damn ribs. I shut that rib down her throat. Oh, bye. Try talk about Vashti. Mow the lawn every single day. Girl. Bye. There ain't no blade of grass. I'll make him cut. Please the grass with scissors to saying her rib was so good, please. I'm in my house saying all that mess in my house, please. I was so ready to choke her. Like I just can't. 'cause I feel like yes, they are separated, but why you being messy? No. You still love her. I was over her. Over her. I was glad she lucky. She still got a job. She wouldn't even working. If it was me, she wouldn't have. She wouldn't have no choice. Right? She gotta go. She gotta go. She go. She ain't gonna North Carolina, she gonna somewhere else. No, she gonna, she gonna go somewhere else. I'm way too petty for that. She would've to go. Me too. Me too. Me too. I'll be like, mm, no. Say no Christ. But anyway, Kenny crying, this could be. That has been, that has honestly been the book that I keep recommending to people like, especially women. 'cause I have more women that follow me than anything. So I'm like. And they're usually, they're in their forties or their late thirties, and I'm like, okay, girl. We all going through the same shift. We starting to feel things. We starting to say, Hey, these kids getting older, what's my life looking like? You know? So it just hits a certain way. And even if you're not in that age group, if you, you're going through something pivotal, something transformative in your life. It just, it's so good to read that book. It will really make you feel so differently about yourself. So we need more romance books with 40 plus. Yes, yes. I'm trying to learn. Yeah, I'm trying to, I see things I'm reading. I'm like, I get it. I understand. I'm not, I'm not at that point. I don't have kids yet. Yeah. Uh, but you know, we're thinking about it. We're getting married, like we're, we're at that Yeah. Rest of of life and how seeing how things in life can change and it can lead you to that direction if you're not careful. Mm-hmm. I mean, besides this could be us, like that wasn't her fault. She know. She ain't know. Yeah. That had nothing to do with her. That had nothing to do with the No, no. That had nothing to do with that girl. That wasn't her. But it's just nice to see. Like older, like, and it's older. It's like not that far off. It's not that, yeah, it's not really old, but they always say like 30. You start really knowing your mind when you hit 30. Yes. You start knowing your mind 40. You really start, you really start knowing some stuff. Like you really start knowing some stuff and you really are starting feeling like more affirmed of yourself as a woman. Yes. And reading those types of books opened me up to a lot of like, wow, this is not. Well, I've never felt like 30. Oh my God. What was you mean? Yeah, I think a white woman thing. I ain't never heard no black woman or black women, older black women ever tell me like, oh, when you're 30 your life is over. I've never heard no black woman say, I've never heard that either. But I think that's like definitely like a, our alabaster sisters in the struggle of Yeah. Thing. I don't, I never heard that before in my life. Me either, girl. So that is very new to me. Um, yeah. Mines is, uh, rest is resistance by Ooh, that ministry, uh, on Instagram. But she has a book. Um, yeah. And it made me reflect on how I'm using my body as if it was a machine. Yes. And it is a very much deeply baked into like trauma responses because we were brought here right Machines. Mm-hmm. Are brought here as work labor. Right. Whatever we wanna say. Even though we are not, we know, but they brought us here to literally work. Yeah. To the point that that's right. Taking care of your kids, being a stay at home. Wi wife was really like a white woman thing is like a virtual womanhood. Right. When black women stay home to take care of their kids and that's, they wanna do, they're viewed as lazy and probably living. Even though we know that white people live off the system more than black people. But anyway. Exactly. So that made me reflect that if I am tired, that is okay that this job will replace me tomorrow. Exactly. Write my job up. Say like some few words and sadness. That's right. Will move on. That's right. But I have left this earth and realized that like I did everything I wanted to do. I lived the life I wanted to live. Right. I love the way I wanted to love. Yeah. That book was really transformative for me. Oh, I recommend everyone read it. Oh, I need to read that. Yes. Which three books would you recommend to someone who feels stuck? And I talked about this, the crossword roads, but I'm talking about three of them. But it's all looking for self-discovery. Oh, crossword. Oh my gosh. That is so, no, look at not, not stuck at a crossroad. Just looking for some more self discovery. Just look at for, oh, look at the self discovery. Wow. Three books. Three books. Okay. Okay. Ooh, this is, this is okay. All right. Gosh, I thought I was gonna, okay. Alright. So. I cannot remember. Oh my gosh, what this, okay, so I know the title. Can't remember the author right now, but I'm just gonna go with it. So there's a book called Daring Greatly. I wanna say it's Brene Brown. I could be wrong Who, but, um, I would recommend Daring Greatly. Um, when I read that book, um, I was just at a point where. I needed. I just needed something. It was just like, I feel like something's missing in my life. Like maybe I just don't know enough about myself, man. I need to dig deeper. I don't know. But once I got through that book, it was like, Ooh, like the light bulb went off somewhere inside. Yeah. And I have read that book probably three times, and so I would definitely recommend Dar greatly. Of course, it's confidence. Of course it's being bold. Of course. It's getting to know yourself on those things. Um, I would also, ooh, this is hard. Um, okay. I would recommend the book, and this is so wild to me. I just read this book not long ago, the Filling station. Okay. That is on my top list because I heard that book is Chef's Kiss and so I need to read it. Yeah. Yes, I heard it was amazing. I saw it's a great book at this book festival had it and the author wasn't there, but every, it's amazing. Everybody's reading it, but I was like, I can't read, is this God telling me I need to go ahead and read this book? It's amazing. Oh, amazing. It is an amazing book. Okay. Um, it's historical fiction, but it's one of those things where you read this book and when you see the things that this person goes through and what she learns about herself. Then it is, you kind of like, you go back to your own life. Oh my gosh. It's just, Ooh. Mm-hmm. You gonna love this book. You gonna love it? Oh, don't worry, I'm, I'm gonna hit you up after I'm done. I'm gonna be like, alright. I'm a little wrecked girl. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like that. It's one of those books, girl. So I would say, okay. Oh my gosh. Um, Ooh, this is hard. This is so hard. What is my third book? I read so many books. Um, geez, me too. I'm like, does it have to be fiction or nonfiction? No, it can be whatever you, you recommend for someone to pop. Okay. Okay. So in the meantime by Yala van zz. Wow. Okay. And that's old. That's going way back. Way, way. That's a throwback. That's a throwback for you. Okay. It may have been the nineties when that came out. I don't know. But I have read that book. I used it like a textbook. I mean, I would go back for so many years. I'd be like, wait a minute, lemme go back to that highlighted part. 'cause I'm going through something right now. Lemme go back and read this section. Um, it's just one of those books that no matter where you are in life, you can go back to that book. Is is really one of those books that. It, it is almost like, you know how some people say with the Bible where you can read it at 15 and you get a certain level of understanding. You read it at 25 and it's like, oh, I missed that 35. You're like, what? I didn't see it like that, that I'm not saying she's like the, the Bible, but what I'm saying is I got you. That's how I felt. It was like I was reading that book when I was a teenager, right. And here I'm 42 and I'm like, this book still hits for me. So I would, those are my three. Those are my three. I love that. I love that. That's how I felt recently. I reread The Alchemist 'cause I went to Egypt. Oh. And I was said, well, if I'm going to Giza, I need, yeah. That's where he was going. Yeah. When I was a kid, I got it, but I didn't really get it. Yeah. Now I got it. Mm-hmm. And I probably get it in a different way later on in life. And that right for me, I was like, yeah, I love books like that. They just hit you different at different stages of life. It really, I love that. Oh, I didn't get that because I, 'cause I wasn't there yet. I didn't understand and what, right. Yep. Your experiences and knowledge you possess. Um, hopefully you stop growing because if you grow, not don't grow. If you stop growing, you dead. So. Exactly. Don't need none of that. Before I let you go, what final advice would you give to listeners who wanna approach their reading with more openness to self-discovery and hidden truths? I. Ooh. Well, I would say for one, if, if you approach it, approach it like a student. Mm-hmm. Approach reading, like, I am going to learn something when I open this book, and I just need to be open to that. Right. Open to receive the lesson. I would say. Don't be so judgmental. 'cause I used to have a problem with that. I would judge these characters and critique them and call like, oh, she's so messy. Oh, I can't believe and all that. And I still do it, but I don't do it to the degree that I can't learn something like, no matter how messy you think something is, or how outlandish you think it is, like there, there could be some hidden gems in there. So take judgment off. Approach that book. Like, okay, okay, life, okay, universe, what you trying to show me in this book trying teach me And you, you will find it. You'll find something there. Either it is for you specifically or it's for where you're headed in life. It could be something that speaks to your past. You can make sense out of things that have happened in your life by reading somebody else's story. Yeah, so that's what I would say. I love that. I also would suggest for people to Don't shy away from ya. I love young adult. That's a That's true. Very true. It's like, yeah. Everybody's gushing over forever on Netflix. Yeah. Yeah. And it is good. I watched one episode and I'm sitting here from my fiance, so I can't, like, I. But there's something about ya that is just so precious and mm-hmm. So beautiful. Like with the fire on her. Yes. Was like one of my favorite ya books I read, um, not too long ago. Okay. And it was about a young teen mom who, who's grown up in, uh, Philly and she's at a culinary school and her, uh, she lives with her grandmother and she lives with her mom and they send her all to have an experience. I think it was in. In Italy or somewhere. Okay. Where essentially she got to travel without her child. Okay. Would have that experience. Yeah. And it is beautiful because you see, like most people would have written her off. Right. Maybe she's in high school, but Right. That growth in her and having to carry all that maturity at such a young age, but still. Right. 'cause she is still a child, is it was like definitely that I love. And of course I love Oath Bound. Yeah. Called the Legend Born Cycle. Okay. Uh, and I learned a lot like the last book. I was over there crying. Y'all like he failed. Like, why did y'all abandon me? And they were like, yeah, you Mm. So you could get back up. Oh. And I'm like getting dragged. Yes. But it's a beautiful, beautiful, yeah. Beautiful book. Um, and definitely honoring of ancestors. Just like, um, the Root, which is another YA book. Um, that's fantasy as well. So I'm learning a lot from a lot of these YA books and so I definitely suggest people. That's really good. Try ya. So before that's really good. Any last thoughts? Um, I, I will say this, you know, I'm very passionate about just people reading in general. I don't think people read enough. And I think for me it's, you know, as we're talking about self discovery, that's, that's really huge for me because that's my experience. I almost have the experience with every book I read is I'm learning something about myself and that's what I want people to know. Like, you can, don't, like you said, don't shy away from ya. Don't shy away from genres. Like you can have a very rewarding experience. You can be challenged, you can be stretched. You will grow from these books. It's so valuable to have that one-on-one time with yourself, and you walk away from a book going, wow, I'm now asking myself questions I never asked myself before. I'm thinking about things I never thought or I never thought about it in that way, and so I just want people to be open to the idea of, yeah, it may be fiction, nonfiction, it doesn't matter what it is. There's so much. There's price, there's it is priceless. Yes. To read a book and, and to, and to change your life. Like I said, I really believe it can change your life. So just be open to it, embrace it. Fall in love with the characters. You can be entertained, you can have an escape, but you will be enriched. You will be edified. You just have to open yourself up to the idea of it. Yeah. And I really love that because I don't think a lot of people realize how much, uh, every genre can be transformative and impactful in your life, regardless if you know it or not, and Right. Yeah. I've had some really life changing experiences with not with, uh, fiction. Yes. It doesn't always have to be nonfiction. Exactly. Yes. Yes. I totally agree. Mm-hmm. So where can the people find you? Okay. All right. At Kia Simone Barr, I'm on Instagram, I'm on Twitter. I am on TikTok. Come find me. I'm on threads. I'm out here guys at Kia Simone Barr. Come find me. We love it. We love it. Is there any, um, projects or events you have coming up that you want the people to know about? Okay. Well please stay tuned. Um, follow me because my book club, we're gonna be starting back up next month, so I don't want you to miss that. Yes. So we'll be having, um, I have a virtual book club. Mm-hmm. So we meet on Zoom once a month. Yes, yes. So definitely look, look out for that. Mm-hmm. And I may be doing some more interviews with some authors that you may love. So. Stay tuned for that. Yes. We love that. Yes. Yes. Well, thank you so much for stopping by. Welcome. Because you could have been anywhere in the world, but you decided to come here with me and I appreciate it. Yes, yes. I love it. And let me get all up in your business. Yes. I loved it though. I I enjoyed it so much. Thank you for having me. Yes. We'll definitely have to have you back. Yes, I would love to. Yes. So with that, y'all, this is another episode of dot, dot, dot. But make it books always like rate, review, subscribe. We can only grow as much as you allow us, and that is through you guys. And so we love that you guys listen to us. There's. So many exciting announcements that we have coming down the pipeline. But as always, butt making books always meets on the last Wednesday, six P, no, 7:00 PM at the Wine Collective in Baltimore, Maryland. So if you wanna be in community and hang out in Kiki, come in Kiki and Ho Ho with us. Um, but as we always say. Keep healing but make it books. Peace y'all.