What Does it Mean to Forgive with Terah Shelton Harris

[00:00:00] Trigger Warning This episode contains discussion of sexual assault. Please be gentle with yourself when listening The way I was raised and the way I think is you work really hard to something and there's a positive outcome at the end of it

[00:00:16] Right. Yeah, like I have worked on this book for all this time I've been writing all this time You know like at the end of this rainbow supposed to be an agent in a book deal

[00:00:25] And it didn't happen and I did not know how to process that. What's good I'm Nikesha Elise Williams and this is Black and Published Bringing you the journeys of writers poets playwrights and storytellers of all kinds Today's guest is Tara Shelton Harris

[00:00:43] author of the novel one summer in Savannah a Book about a woman who finds healing after something horrific A very close friend of mine shared something with me that I did not know that she had conceived the child through sexual assault

[00:00:58] And she said these words and I say this anytime I give any talks because this is what I remember the most about our conversation That she said and I practice the act of forgiveness every day

[00:01:10] Using the act of forgiveness as a theme was Tara's North Star while writing one summer in Savannah a Book she started after she quit writing for six years Why she gave up on the dream she's had since the sixth grade? Plus how complacency motivates her ambitious nature and

[00:01:30] What she says is her niche in which all of her other books will follow That and more is next when black and published continues Tara When did you know that you were a writer? In the sixth grade I Had a sixth-grade teacher named Julie cook

[00:02:08] Who we back then I don't want to age myself but back then With there was a program in schools called drop everything and read it was known as deer and Of course, I would read because I've been a reader my whole entire life

[00:02:23] But I would write during that time too. And so she allowed me to write I don't even remember what I was writing in particular I just had this I felt this really strong urge to write because I would read so much and I've always think well

[00:02:36] I want to write and She really encouraged me to write and then like one day she saw that I wasn't writing anymore And she's like, oh, you know, I know I'm not writing. She said encouraged that keep going with that until it just burns out

[00:02:48] And I kept I kept writing I kept writing I kept writing and she One day she said do you want to read your story to the class? And it was a story about my class and It was called the class party

[00:03:01] And she let me read it and they laughed like they were like really enjoying what I was reading And I realized then right then that wow something that I wrote had an impact on people

[00:03:11] And so I thought I'm gonna keep going with this until as she said until it burns out and you know what it never burned out So what did your family say when you said that you were a writer?

[00:03:23] Well, see my mother had I have the best mother in the world and I'll fight anybody that tells me I don't But she's always encouraged us. We have we're a very artsy family

[00:03:33] My mother is a writer my brother is a writer my older brother is an artist he can draw So we're that's ours. That's our brain. That's our side of the brain

[00:03:42] My mother always encouraged us to do whatever we you know, whatever we felt like our heart was desired But the problem is it was always how you gonna make money doing that? You know, it was like, okay, you can write but understand that you got to make money

[00:03:57] So how can you do this? And so I thought I was gonna be a journalist. I went to the University of Arkansas Major in journalism and I thought I was gonna be the next New York Times, you know newspaper writer and at the time

[00:04:11] Newspapers was already starting their little decline and I realized I was like, well, this is it, you know No more newspapers. What can I do? And I thought about magazine writing and I just was not sure

[00:04:22] If that's the past that I wanted to go on but then when I got to college or start seeing other Opportunities for writers because you know, they always say you can't be what you can't see

[00:04:31] And I didn't see anybody making a living writing other than writing for newspapers or you was writing books And I never thought at that time that I could write a book

[00:04:40] So I just naturally went to the newspaper route, but then in college I met people that were freelance writers Now like what do you mean? So I just write and I don't have to work for anybody and I write an article and I could pay for it

[00:04:53] Oh, wow. And then I had an opportunity Opportunity I left school because I had an opportunity to start freelance travel writing And so I saved up a bunch of money and I went to Europe and updated guidebooks for a lot of these publishers

[00:05:08] And that's one of the ways I first got started writing And I got chance to travel and see the world at the exact same time And so I just kind of went into that and so I was like, see mom. I can make money not a lot now

[00:05:21] We're not talking about a lot of money I mean, there was a lot of hostels a lot of very questionable small hotels that I stayed into but it was I was making some money and I was writing and You know, I said see mom

[00:05:34] There are the ways and then ever since then when I realized that there are more ways than making money besides newspaper writing I started exploring other ways and such as grant writing and all this other stuff

[00:05:44] But it was just stuff that I did not know whenever I was you know in sixth grade and coming up and after I graduated from high school

[00:05:51] So then when did you after knowing that you could make a living writing and doing different things even if it was for low pay? When did your brain say, you know what I want to write a book now? I had been freelance writing for about 10

[00:06:06] 12 years by then and I thought what's the next step for me? I'm always trying to push and challenge myself to do something different So I thought what's the next step for me and the next step for me was to write a book

[00:06:18] So I said okay, I'm going to write a book I was working part-time at my local library and I was still freelancing and I said I'm gonna write a book and I did it took me maybe a year or so to write it and

[00:06:33] I thought well, this is it. I can do it. I can I did it I wrote a book and then started the process of as one does of trying to actually get it published and Whoo that was this 2012

[00:06:49] Yeah, and so I start the process of trying to find you know, I started doing research on okay You gotta get an agent then I want to get an agent in a book deal. I thought okay, okay

[00:06:58] You know, I thought I've been writing for such a long time and I'm like this this, you know This shouldn't be a hard thing. Whoo. Yes, it was I Pitch I call that book my practice book and

[00:07:11] I pitched that book for about 18 months and I sent it out to maybe I know over a hundred agents over a hundred agents and Got some fantastic responses

[00:07:23] Like I got a bunch of full requests cuz I at the time they were like if you get a full request That's a good thing. If you get a partial quest. It's a good thing, you know showing interest

[00:07:31] So I got some of those I even got a revise and resubmit. I thought okay. We really close now Let me let me go work on it some more none of it worked out And I was so disappointed because and the way I was raised in the way

[00:07:45] I think is you work really hard to something and there's a positive outcome at the end of it, right? Yeah, like I have worked on this book for all this time. I've been writing all this time

[00:07:55] You know like at the end of this rainbow supposed to be an agent in a book deal Mm-hmm didn't happen and I did I know how to process that and so I whined for years I stopped I completely stopped writing as I'm never writing another book again

[00:08:08] I'm never another book. It's like I'm not I'm not doing this again Nope I'm just gonna continue to work at the library and I'm gonna continue to freelance and that's all I'm gonna do and

[00:08:17] I'm never gonna do this again because it was so it was it was very hard It's very disheartening like Oprah did not call me and tell me like my book was gonna be a book club pick You know like why didn't over call like I mean

[00:08:28] I just you know, of course as a new writer you start thinking all those great and wonderful things It didn't happen didn't work out and I didn't know how to process it

[00:08:34] I didn't have a circle of writing friends at the time to talk to about it. So I just I stopped writing books I was like, I'm there. I'm not gonna do that again. I tried it I tried it and I'm not gonna do it anymore

[00:08:45] So I did not took years off as you can see I took years off How many years did you take off? Maybe about six or so Before it started the idea kind of replanted itself in my mind, but I took a long time off

[00:09:00] So then what was it that brought you back to the page and was it one summer in Savannah? It was but it was also when you are called to do something It doesn't go away because you say it does

[00:09:13] I tell people that when you are called to be a writer when you're called to be a pastor when you're called to be Something in life. It doesn't go away because you don't want to do it Right, it's still with it's still in you

[00:09:25] I mean, I knew in the sixth grade that I was supposed to be a writer and I can run from it And I was running from it

[00:09:31] I can run from it all I want to but it's gonna keep getting put back in front of you that that desire that burn doesn't go away Because you wanted to and so it was there and it slowly like it started coming back up

[00:09:41] Maybe you should try to write another book again You know and I don't like being complacent and I felt myself to be very complacent in my writing I was moving up in my library world and I was doing freelancing

[00:09:51] I was actually freelancing a lot less and working more at the library But that that seat was still there. So I said, okay, let's let's let's let's let's try this again

[00:10:00] but I said I went back and I read I thought about that first book and I thought okay I have to put this to rest that this book didn't work out

[00:10:09] And I have to look at it in a positive manner and I looked at it like I learned so much about publishing I learned that as much as there's some great writers that will never be traditionally published just because that's just the way it works out

[00:10:23] And I learned that there's a lot of you know luck that that plays into publishing I learned that you have to have the best agents, you know Because your agent just doesn't get this book deal for you

[00:10:34] Your agent fights for you every step of the way and how important that is I learned a lot about myself I learned that hey, you know, I have the discipline to write a book and to finish a book

[00:10:44] And so I wanted to put that book in a good place and then I said okay, Tara We're gonna do this again we're gonna do it and we're gonna do it right and We're gonna wait for an idea. I'm not going to force anything

[00:10:56] I'm not gonna make anything happen for myself Inspiration is gonna come it's all gonna come to me. It's gonna be right and so I Started waiting and my ears was open where before I had closed my ears

[00:11:09] So I opened my heart and my ears up to writing another book and then that's when the inspiration started flooding in I Hear the sermon on obedience coming out So I wonder so when you came back

[00:11:25] To the page with the idea for one summer in it in Savannah. Did you have the same type of? Verb and zest for writing that you did with the first novel

[00:11:37] Knowing that it could be another round of rejection and all of that kind of things that could almost block you from going further because you know You know what to expect in the experience gosh, I did I did because of how one summer Savannah came together

[00:11:50] I could not wait to write it And so I thought wow I did not feel this way the first time I wrote that first book This this this is different and then of course that scared me because like you said

[00:12:03] I was so afraid that am I gonna write another book that no one's ever gonna see you know But that I learned to just I stifled that and I was like nope. We're not even gonna go there We're gonna stay positive

[00:12:13] we're gonna just do this because we have to we have to do this and I'm a huge prayer. I ask God for guidance and helping me with everything and the way it all came together It was just letting me know that this was just his will and

[00:12:28] so the first part that first part of the inspiration came because my ears was open and One other thing before I say about the inspiration is I'm a collection development librarian My job is to buy all the adult print and digital materials for my library

[00:12:41] So, you know, I read a lot I read a lot and I've started noticing the stories that I was drawn to I'm drawn to diverse new and unique stories that I have not seen or have read

[00:12:55] Before and I love stories that when I'm thinking about a comparable to it as you know, you know You have what would it accost to your book? I didn't I wanted to make it hard for

[00:13:05] People to find comps for my book like I wanted to be I wanted to set it apart and be different And so I said that's what I was drawn to but then I listened to my patrons and they tell me the same thing

[00:13:16] You know, they love their tried-and-true authors. You know those authors those automatic buy authors They love those but they're also hungry for those new and diverse and unique stories. And so I thought okay, okay

[00:13:28] There's a market for this is you have to find the right book the right idea Tara So I knew more about what I wanted to write and then I also spent a lot of time working on my craft of writing itself

[00:13:39] Hmm, so I waited. I was like I'm gonna find this right inspiration I'm gonna wait and for God to lead me on what I'm supposed to do and then the South Carolina Church shooting happened

[00:13:49] That completely polarized people people like what he went to a church and shot up a church after they fed him and prayed for him And welcome and accepted him and he did that and was I'm like I just could not believe it

[00:14:01] But even even more not believing that days after that happened, you know Those survivors and their family members they walked into that courthouse and they forgave that man. They did and I thought Okay, okay mom

[00:14:16] Church I grew up in a church like I don't if y'all didn't tell me about this Like I knew forgiveness was always supposed to be on the table But I don't think I ever defined what forgiveness was to me And I and met over time

[00:14:32] I just assumed that there were things that you know what if you didn't want to forgive You didn't have to like forgive them was up to you

[00:14:37] And you didn't have to do it and I assume that there were things that it was so bad that you can choose not to forgive that And they taught me opposite of that. They taught me, you know what you can just forgive just about anything

[00:14:49] And I thought oh my goodness. Oh my goodness Okay, so that really challenged my definition of forgiveness and I said, okay, I have a theme I want to write a book about forgiveness

[00:15:01] I want to write a book that's gonna really challenge people's definition of forgiveness the way mine was challenged And so I thought okay, I got a thing and you know you can't write a book without a story

[00:15:11] So you have a theme but not a story. So I said, okay, I'm going to continue to wait Okay, God is talking to me. It's coming. Let's let's keep waiting and then a little bit after that

[00:15:21] A very close friend of mine shared something with me that I did not know that she had conceived the child through sexual assault And she said these words and I say this anytime I give any talks because this is what I remembered the most about our

[00:15:34] Conversation that she said and I practiced the act of forgiveness every day And I thought my goodness that there it is there it is that forgiveness taught to my theme But the fact that she said is

[00:15:48] That forgiveness is an act that she has to do every day that also let me believe not I thought forgiveness you just did at this one time and then it was done and it's over

[00:15:56] No, forgiveness is a conscious effort that you do every day when you wake up and I thought oh goodness This is it her story that theme and then I went and started doing research on

[00:16:10] Conception after sexual assault and was just flabbergasted by the topic and I thought what why are we not talking more about this? But this is an even darker side of sexual assault

[00:16:23] And why are we not talking about this and then I spoke to a couple counselors about about the topic And I asked her I said is there a number of the number of women that conceived children after sexual assault?

[00:16:35] And she says Tara if you find any number double it Wow because it's so vastly under reported. There's no true number for this and Then I started doing more research on the laws of this I thought well, okay, it's happening

[00:16:51] But these laws are in place to protect these women No There is no federal law that takes away to prevent the rights from a man who conceived a child through sexual assault No federal law at all. So that means it's left up to the states to decide

[00:17:06] Which you know 50 states 50 different laws and I discovered that some of these states Barely have laws on the books for this at all and I just could not believe that this is happening But in that again that I feel like I'm a fairly educated

[00:17:20] I'm a librarian I do a lot of research why has this never come across me? How come I never knew about this and I thought okay, this this is this is this I'm gonna write this and I felt so passionate about

[00:17:32] Bringing awareness to you know these women and I went back to my friend and I asked her if I could share her story And she was like I assumed that she was she was like yes Absolutely absolutely. She said there are so many

[00:17:46] Sarah's of the world, you know Sarah the main character of books There's so many Sarah's of the world and you know you writing a book a book about it is will definitely highlight

[00:17:55] You know our situation and so then I had my book which was ultimately turned out to be my summer in Savannah Wow, I want to jump into the conversation about the book But I want to get the publishing story because writing a book about forgiveness

[00:18:09] I don't think I've ever seen that Writing a book about conception after sexual assault the only instance I can think of before is law and order SVU because Olivia's character. Yeah, it was the child of a sexual assault So knowing that you had this story

[00:18:26] I'm gonna say it was a gift from God and your friend and everything was conspiring in your favor What was it like when you went out to approach agents and then publishers with this story that we haven't seen Before in the marketplace and with black characters. Yes. Yes

[00:18:42] So my publishing story is different because I got my book deal before I had I got an agent and so I'll get there and so when I started sending it out. I thought okay

[00:18:55] People are gonna want this. This is this is not something that is often found in fiction Conception after sexual assault is not found in fiction. I found just one book in fiction Christian fiction and it tells a story from one who can see the child after sexual assault

[00:19:11] That's the only one I can find and I'm a collection development librarian. I read hundreds of books a year I have collection development friends We put our heads together and we we could not find anything and so I knew okay

[00:19:22] This is different if someone if an agent if a publisher is willing to go there with you that this is different So I felt really good about the topic and I started pitching in January of 2021 and Started off right out the gate

[00:19:39] full request like I remember my I did them in batches of 10 and The first 10 I sent out of those six I got full requests and I thought okay, okay We this is better than book one, you know we're off to a great start and then

[00:19:54] Slowly it started being oh, I don't know where I'm gonna put this on the shelf and Oh, the writing is great. The topic is great. It's just not for me You know those kind of you know rejections and I thought okay, that's fine

[00:20:08] That first initial out the gate gave me confidence that okay, maybe not you I just got to find the right person So I sent out 10 10 more same thing four and five full requests and I got the most

[00:20:21] Beautiful rejections. I mean just beautiful and that that's what's so annoying about the whole process It's like you saying all this about the book Represent me please like I don't understand it

[00:20:31] I do now the importance of making sure you have an agent that you know really wants to represent your work But then I was like what are we doing? And so I pitched this book this happened to me from January all the way up until

[00:20:44] November so 11 months I was pitching this book and I remember I was right at the end and I thought I'm gonna have another book one this book is gonna live on this on my hard drive

[00:20:57] I was never gonna see the light again and right before that my editor had opened her submissions up to black Writers who didn't have agents and you know, it's very rare to be able to submit to an editor

[00:21:09] You know at a major publisher directly so I took advantage and I sent it to her with no expectation Because I've had 11 months of hey

[00:21:17] This is good and we like it but you know at the end and I sent it to her and I remember I was in my brother's kitchen Making mashed potatoes right before Thanksgiving and I checked my email. I know I'm very specific with my

[00:21:31] And I got an email and I'd only sent her 50 pages And I got an email from her and I thought man It's gonna be you know, sorry, but no and she says I am enraptured by these pages

[00:21:42] She said please send me the rest and I showed it to my niece and she was like all happened I was like no, we're not getting happy No, because 11 months of this me being happy and then being disappointed

[00:21:54] And so I sent it to her and I went on and continued living my life and right before Christmas She emailed me and said I am crying and laughing at the same time. She's I just finished your book

[00:22:07] I'm crying and laughing at the same time. I love your book. Can we talk and I thought what happens here like this is an editor This is new and so we talked she told me everything she loves

[00:22:20] She said I'm taking it to acquisitions and I thought oh there it is that's the end of it It's not gonna make it out of acquisitions. I'm like, that's the end of it. Well, you know, it was a good ride

[00:22:29] I felt good, you know, I felt really good So she took it to acquisitions and she's supposed to call me like on that Wednesday and she didn't call and I thought Yeah, there it is. No, so that's okay. My husband's like, okay, it's okay

[00:22:41] You know, you got close you can celebrate this trying to find the positives in it She called me that next day Thursday first thing that morning and was like we have a deal and not only a deal

[00:22:52] We have a two book deal because in the process of talking to her about the first book She asked me what I was working on and she loved that idea too

[00:22:59] Hmm and then she says, okay, so now that you know, I want to offer you a book deal So you need to go get an agent and I was like, oh, okay

[00:23:07] Cuz yeah, cuz like we can't negotiate and talk and so I got the opportunity to approach agents and say hey I have a two book deal and I need an agent for it I there's still a lot of agents that had my full request

[00:23:23] So I did the proper thing and let them know. Hey, you're reading my fool already have a book deal But then I also asked my editor Aaron Do you have any agents who you like to work with?

[00:23:33] You know that I can talk to recommend and I end up going with one of the ones that she recommended to me Her name is Abby saw. I love everything about this story, but I'm listening to you

[00:23:44] And I'm so excited because of how it's unfolding and how it happened But I even still hear your reserve and say no we're not getting excited about this We're not getting excited about nothing at any point with one summer in Savannah or even the book prior

[00:23:57] Did you think about self-publishing because you were no waiting. No, no I I admire anyone that self-publishes my mother has written a couple books that she just did not even try to traditionally publish she's want to get them out there in the world and I

[00:24:14] It's it's a lot to self-publish to me and I respect any writer that does that process but I knew immediately that's not what that's not that was not the path for me and My dream was to be traditionally published with a publisher and so I did not

[00:24:30] consider self-publishing Alright, and so you have made that happen one summer in Savannah is here So let's get into the book Can you read a little bit from it so that I can ask you all of my questions about these? Yes

[00:24:44] One summer in Savannah tells the story of Sarah Lancaster who returns home to Savannah After eight years with her daughter Alana a child she conceived after she was raped at a high school party But even though everyone knew about the assault

[00:25:01] No one knows about the child. It's a secret waiting to get out Especially when Sarah begins to fall for the twin brother of her attacker Here's Tara like this particular passage in

[00:25:15] It's a Sarah section and it's not the beginning that's what everybody tends to really like is that beginning part But there's a passage that I really like Sarah I Suppose I knew that eventually I would have to come back and face my past

[00:25:33] But that level awareness had never been where I could reach it and a visible boundary has separated the girl Who fled here eight years ago and the woman I am today

[00:25:42] With great care I can find that girl our memories and the crimes committed against her and now the moment I avoided has come around with one phone call suddenly I'm back in that other country which is burning bright as the morning sun

[00:25:56] I was a vibrant teenager before at all nice at times moodie others. I smiled at people and meant it Looked him in the eye when I spoke to them. I laughed at everything Tyler Robinson's corny jokes and homeroom ABC TGIF Friday sitcom lineup

[00:26:13] I befriended the least popular and stood up to bullies I valued holidays Valentine's Day in particular and as a way to celebrate individuals and relationships I saved my money from working at the bookstore and bought everyone in my classes of Valentine

[00:26:27] I personalized each one with my signature and a little heart above a in my last name Being back in Savannah plants me firmly in the middle of those memories that time being that girl again

[00:26:39] But that's not who I am anymore in Maine. The pain is as distant as a star Trauma doesn't punch a clock, but you can set your watch by it It works over time most of the time, but it can be smothered like a whisper in the storm

[00:26:52] That's what I do by living in Maine Thank you Since you read a different section I do want to start with that opening line Which is it's difficult to pinpoint the moment I started loving my daughter And so that's a hell of a way to

[00:27:08] Open a book because it's like who doesn't love their child or who doesn't lie at least So to say like you know what I didn't really love her in the beginning It's like well why and as you begin to peel back and unfold the story

[00:27:24] And I know it's based on your friend and what you had researched and all of that and you know trying to find forgiveness Did you find that? Forgiveness had to begin with learning to love again for her forgiveness was learning to accept

[00:27:40] What happened and I'm understanding that she couldn't change it and That first line, you know I've had conversations with my friend and several other people who are in that same predicament And one of the things they talked about was how the love just kind of came later and

[00:27:57] I remember I mean I have received Several emails from women that said, you know, I'm not a Sarah But the love for my child came later because I was an abusive relationship or the circumstances of their birth was tough

[00:28:12] And you know, we live in a society where you know Society tells us that the minute we find out we're pregnant We're supposed to be happy and excited about it, which you know children are a blessing if they are a blessing

[00:28:23] But we have to understand that not everybody's Circumstances are the same and that there are a lot of issues that they're having to deal with You know and being pregnant at the same time not to mention the hormones that come along with being pregnant

[00:28:35] And that's one of the things that I want to infuse into the book is something that she told me was you know, I was so confused about this conception and you know that that love did not materialize at first and

[00:28:48] Then later on and this happens in the book And I don't want to spoil it Sarah said that she didn't love her at first, but she was going to protect her and that Protection was love love manifests itself in so many different reasons

[00:29:02] And so where Sarah thought that she didn't love and had that you know that outbursting of love for her daughter She did she said the first thing I did about protect her protection is love

[00:29:10] That's the way she could love her at first rather than that explosion of love that you know Society expects us to have did you always know that The villain in the story and the love interest Would be twins because I just thought that was cruel and unusual punishment

[00:29:29] I was like the love interest and the guy our twins twins. I did okay So everything, you know I took my time writing this book and everything in this book was intentional and there's a lot of symbolism

[00:29:41] And there's a lot of parallels in this story and one of the things that I wanted to show was again Something that I've heard several people say Especially my friend say she says when I had to come home and face this

[00:29:55] I had to literally face my past and I thought how can I infuse that? How can I how can I put that in the book and I thought why not have Jacob be an identical twin?

[00:30:06] Because it's literally her facing her past in order to understand and accept, you know What happened to her and so because this is the question I'm asked the most like why did you make Jacob an identical twin brother?

[00:30:22] I don't know how she got past it and like I know it's about forgiveness and you did the work for us But I'm like I don't I'm not getting past the face

[00:30:30] I know a lot of people a lot of people like I can't get it. My husband is a twin. He's not an identical twin He's a fraternal twin and one of the things and I've heard from several people that are twins was I'm not like my twin

[00:30:43] you can look exactly like somebody and not still be that same person and Jacob from the beginning says I am not my brother and he is completely opposite from Daniel They're not the same person and you know circumstances has changed the way Daniel looks

[00:30:58] Right, but it's more of a symbolic thing that I wanted readers to kind of come along with me Like she had to literally face her past And not only did she have to face her past everybody's got a past to face in this book

[00:31:10] So Jacob once he finally sees Alana has to face his own past right and so in talking about Forgiveness is also talking about grief Things that you lose and grief from the things that are stolen from you Yes

[00:31:27] Why was that the trajectory that you ended up going down and saying that you know You have to grieve and let things go and then you also have to forgive

[00:31:37] So that you can move on that's right. Well because at first this was just gonna be a Sarah story there was not gonna be a dual POV it was gonna be Sarah story and that was it and I I Don't know I'm not sure about you

[00:31:50] I hear voices my character speak to me when I write and so this character of Jacob was very strong Was very strong and I thought all this stuff. You're telling me Jacob

[00:32:00] I can't use any of this because it's all gonna be either backstory or info dumping and I can't use any of it And then I wrote and I got to a point in Sarah story where I thought I hit the wall

[00:32:10] I'm like, where am I going with this? I'm a pancer by the way I make it up as I go. I know the end. I know the end But I don't know anything in the middle as I'm as I'm is coming to me as it goes

[00:32:21] So I hit the wall as pants was a lot of times do and I thought where am I going? What's happening? And then that's when I realized that Jacob has his own story to tell

[00:32:31] Right like Jacob can offer a unique perspective to Sarah story that would not have been in the single Sarah POV Because we have a Jacob POV we hear directly from Daniel We hear from directly from birdie. And so I realized, okay, Jacob needs to have a voice

[00:32:48] But what is his story and his story was he has his own forgiveness to seek and to give and So where she's dealing with forgiveness He's doing forgiveness, but grief plays into it and grief and a forgiveness sometimes they you know

[00:33:02] They kind of lying in there together and it was you know, they never grieved They never learned how to grieve and like what is his issues with his family? And so Jacob kind of has his own story where Sarah has her own story

[00:33:15] And then you know, of course they all kind of intersect But that's why I ended up going with with the grief for their side of the story just because he needed his own path Okay. Yeah, their mother about sent me

[00:33:30] Ma'am you are you are working my last nerve, you don't go somewhere sat down Yes, yes somewhere But I feel like one of the most intriguing characters is Sarah's father Speaking only in poems. First of all, I see your library collections at work because yes

[00:33:52] Know that work but then having people be able to translate what those poems mean to get to the heart of What he was saying or what he was feeling or refusing to say but feeling rather They Why and where did that come from? Okay, I love this question

[00:34:10] Jose is loosely based on my grandfather who suffered a stroke whenever I was 12 years old and he lost his ability to speak So for the rest of his life, we had to decipher what he was trying to tell us do gestures do sounds

[00:34:23] And so I thought I'm gonna honor my grandfather I'm gonna make him Sarah's father But I need Sarah's father to speak words like he has this she he needs to have you know dialogue I thought how can I do that and when I went back to school?

[00:34:36] I made it in English I changed it from journalism English and I studied a lot of poetry You know, I have several English degrees and poetry is always that you know one of those classes you have to take

[00:34:46] But I am drawn to poetry so I always loved it So I thought why not poetry and in poetry is also I feel like a dying art

[00:34:53] I thought because I'm dying form of communication that we just we need to try to embrace a little bit more than what we do So I thought why not poetry, you know

[00:35:01] Why not use Gortjie when you read a poem a lot of times you have to read it multiple times in order to decipher the meaning So I thought why not do that and originally he was only gonna speak

[00:35:12] You know some of his dialogue in poetry and I remember letting an early You know our early reader read it and I thought she thought just go ahead go all in on it

[00:35:20] And I thought you know what I am I'm gonna go all in on this and just see what happens And I said oh if an agent or publisher tells me to change it, I'll change it

[00:35:29] They never did everybody loved it and I thought you know what we're gonna do this and then people say was it really hard to come up with the poems? No for several reasons one. I use my favorite poems

[00:35:39] There's a lot of Yates a lot of Whitman a lot of Paul Lawrence Dunbar who are my favorites So a lot of those you know just like people know song lyrics. I know poems so they're in my head So it wasn't too hard for me

[00:35:52] What has been the response now that the book is out and people are being able to read this entire story that you That came together over years about forgiveness about grief about Conception after sexual assault how have readers responded to you in your story

[00:36:08] So you I wrote this book and I did not have any expectations on this time I didn't expect Oprah to call me, you know, I didn't have that

[00:36:16] It's just like you know what I did it I did it and I wanted people to be able to read it But I wasn't trying to dictate, you know, if it was gonna be a New York Times bestseller or whatever

[00:36:25] So I just put the book out there and the response has been Unbelievable to me. I found out in January my book came out July 4th I found out in January that Target wanted to make it the July book club pick and

[00:36:40] Target if you know a little bit about they book club, they select those diverse Unique stories the same thing go all the way back to where I said if I was gonna write something I was gonna do something that's gonna be different they feature those stories and

[00:36:54] I thought this is a this is full circle for me This is come full complete circle and I knew by having it just in Target that it was gonna expand

[00:37:02] The readership even more I found out very early on it was some of them gonna be a lead title for my publisher So they have really backed me so I figured that was be enough, but then Target has really expanded

[00:37:14] I have heard from a bunch of Sarah's have emailed me and said thank you so much for you know Highlighting and bringing awareness to us. I've heard from people whose fathers or cousins or mothers Stop speaking traditionally or had a different way of speech. I did not anticipate

[00:37:31] You know to hear from all these different people about different situations I heard from women who said that you know, thank you for that first paragraph in your book about Women not immediately loving their children, you know, do the circumstances beyond their control

[00:37:44] I just recently talked to an Alana a woman who was who was the product of a sexual assault And she said that you know, I've never read a book about someone like me and that has been the most positive You know reception to me

[00:38:00] I mean the book is selling well and I'm very blessed for that But what I am more proud of is that it's touching people and they're they're loving it And they're they're seeing themselves in it, you know

[00:38:10] Where go all the way back when I was in sixth grade and I wanted to think about making a career in writing But I didn't see any different paths, you know to that people are seeing themselves in this book

[00:38:20] And that has been the most positive. You know, thank for me Congratulations. So I want to switch to a speed round in the game before I let you go for But soon to be the afternoon. What is your favorite book?

[00:38:33] Oh, you cannot ask a librarian their favorite book. Okay, top five As I lay dying by William Faulkner everything I never told you about Celestine the vanishing half by Brett Bennett cold millions by Jess Walter

[00:38:51] And let's leave it at four because I can't think of that. I can't think of another one. Okay Who is your favorite author? I'm gonna have to give you a couple because I can't pick one Brett Bennett Celestine

[00:39:02] Right out. I mean contemporary that's publishing that's still alive. That's publishing now. I'm a I'm a William Faulkner fan I know that may not be popular, but you know, I studied a lot of that in English But I have been really loving Sean Cosby's books

[00:39:16] You know, I just finished all the centers bleed and I'm just I'm just I'm just really baffled by what he's been able to do Who is your favorite poet? Oh, Yates, no question

[00:39:26] And then I love Mary Olive. I guess there'll be two so Mary Oliver and Yates are probably my favorites And you mentioned how you said that Poetry is like people are getting away from it

[00:39:37] I don't want to call it a dying art form because I don't think that it is but I think people are getting away from it and because spoken word is being lionized in a way That traditional poetry is it so in that vein

[00:39:51] What do you think is the difference if you think there is one between poetry and spoken word? I don't think there is a difference I think that it's all in how it's delivered and how it's written and where it comes from

[00:40:03] And it's just a different way of communicating and you know, where people said, oh, you know Yeah, I've heard from people say, oh, you know, I didn't I don't really like poetry

[00:40:12] So I skipped over to hoséa part and it was it but it's the same as him speaking words It's just different. So I guess that's it poetry is just more of a different way of communicating versus spoken word If money were no object

[00:40:28] Where would you go? What would you do and where would you live? If money was no object, I would be in Paris I'd be riding in Paris and I'd be living in Paris. Paris is my favorite It's my favorite place. It's the place where I've been the most

[00:40:41] um As a matter of fact, I've started when I finish a book I go to Paris So when I finished my second book, I went to Paris the book I'm writing now I've already booked my ticket. So to kind of force myself to finish by February

[00:40:54] I'm going to Paris. But Paris is the place where I always just keep going back to That I already bought my tickets. So yes, so we got to finish this book by February because we're going Because we go on to Paris. I love that

[00:41:08] Name three things on your bucket list To be a new york times bestselling author to start an endowment for um My library or for a librarian need

[00:41:20] Libraries is just, you know, it's been really hard lately to be a librarian with all the band book conversations and stuff that's happening So it's been really hard and there are libraries that are losing their funding because of this band book issue

[00:41:33] And I'd love to start something that would help them be able to stay stay current And what would be another thing? I guess to retire and be able to just write full-time. That's that's that's what I'm really hoping to do Name an author

[00:41:49] You most admire I'm gonna go with Celestine I admire her style of writing Before everything I never told you was her first book was her debut novel and I remember reading that and thinking I love this style And that's the style that I wanted to gravitate toward lyrical

[00:42:11] You know Her and Brett Bennett both have this lyrical way. I remember reading the Vanishing half and I thought I'll never be able to write as good as this The way she told that story and the lyrical tone to that book

[00:42:22] I thought this is the type of writing that I want to do and They have just consistent both of them And that's why they will always be my favorite because that's the style of type of writing that I'm drawn to

[00:42:33] And I admire them for for being able to do that Thank you A game is called rewriting the classics name one book. You wish you would have written

[00:42:44] That's all they dying by William Faulkner, which I tried my second book is very much kind of influenced by that book But that's one of the books. I was like, man, I wish I wrote a classic man

[00:42:55] I wish I wrote that that that's my classic one. I have a contemporary one that I wish I wrote to What is it? I'm curious water for elephants by Sarah Gruen I

[00:43:06] Love that book and it's rare that I say that, you know, I wish I wrote a book most of time I enjoy them but I'm like, man, I wish I wrote that book. But of course I'd make it black

[00:43:18] Name one book where you want to change the ending and how would you do it? I think I'd probably have to say Daisy Jones in the six I love that book so much the end of that book frustrated me

[00:43:30] I just wish they would have got together right at at the end and not this whole all this time separated and went by I'm like, what? You know, you you slow burn this whole thing and then we still don't get that

[00:43:44] The payoff at the end the payoff at the end. So I would I would definitely change the end of that All right And then I know you may not say this as a librarian

[00:43:54] But I'm gonna ask anyway. Yeah name a book that you think is overrated or overtaught and why? A book You are putting me on the spot here um I'm gonna do an author

[00:44:19] And I actually have one of her books here and it's not her as a writing. I think it's it's it's the way her books are being pushed I feel like Emily Henry's books are not romance

[00:44:31] I feel like they are women's fiction with a romance in them and it's confusing for me I mean, it has a happily ever after which, you know, all the things that, you know, romance is supposed to be but When I read her books, I don't see

[00:44:46] Romance in it. I see Women's fiction, which I don't even like the term women's fiction because you know, there's no men's fiction So I hate that term

[00:44:55] But that term still exists. So that's the term that I know and I don't feel like they're I don't feel like they're romance And so I think her books are, you know Miss miscategorized That was very dignified

[00:45:08] Yes, because actually I enjoy her books, you know, and I know millions of people She is uber popular millions of people enjoy her book So this is not a knock on her or anything. I just feel like they're not, you know, that they're not romance

[00:45:21] Okay, and my final question for you today When you are dead and gone and among the ancestors What would you like someone to write about you and the legacy of words and work that you've left behind? That I Brought awareness to these little known

[00:45:44] Circumstances that happen to people That they learned From reading, you know my fiction books. They learned about real life circumstances from reading my fiction books You know, that's kind of going to be what mine when my niche is my books are going to be based on

[00:46:00] Circumstances happen to real life people that society just doesn't talk about enough And I want people to be able to say, you know, because I read a Tara Shelton Harris book You know, I realized that there's a darker side of sexual assault that there's a thing

[00:46:15] conception of sexual assault In my second book, I want people to be able to say, you know I know more about air property and land and ancestral land than, you know, then I ever did, you know

[00:46:28] And stuff like that like I want people to remember me from bringing that awareness to these circumstances Big thank you to Tara Shelton Harris for being here today on black and published

[00:46:40] Make sure you check out Tara's debut novel one summer in savannah out now from source books landmark And if you're not following Tara check her out on the socials. She's at Tara s Harris and Tara's T-e-r-a-h

[00:47:00] That's our show for the week if you like this episode and want more black and published head to our instagram page It's at black and published and that's blk and published

[00:47:14] There I've posted a bonus clip from my interview with Tara about the effects of book bands on libraries Make sure you check it out and let me know what you think in the comments I'll highlight y'all next week when our guest will be Donovan x Ramsey

[00:47:31] Author of when crack was king a people's history of a misunderstood era, you know black people in america We experienced the highest highs and the lowest lows That if you want to understand the american story that you got to look at the black american story

[00:47:50] And that all of america Everything that's ever happened is in our story So I can't help but find the humanity In black folks when I tell our stories But I can't help but to look for the moments of humor and tragedy. That's next week on black and published

[00:48:10] I'll talk to you then peace