The Sanctity of Solitude with Aaliyah Bilal

[00:00:00] It felt like an epiphany. It just felt like you've been resisting this thing that you've been shown at various points in your life is just something that you are. What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams and this is Black & Published on the Mahogany Books Podcast Network, bringing you the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights, and storytellers of all kinds.

[00:00:26] Today's guest is Aaliyah Bilal, author of Temple Folk. The collection is made up of 10 short stories about Black Americans who identify as Muslim and who were at one time members of the Nation of Islam. It's a character identity and plot premise Aaliyah said she'd never seen before in literary fiction.

[00:00:50] I was also thinking about the kinds of interventions that I wanted to make in the conversation about Black Muslims in America. First of all, just to events that we exist and that it's a legitimate Islamic identity. And then furthermore, that we exist outside of crisis, that we don't live our lives or see our faith solely in terms of the Black freedom struggle.

[00:01:17] In all, normalcy is the main message Aaliyah wants readers to take away from her collection that she says was completely a product of her imagination. The reason she believes borrowing details from her personal life is beneath the craft of fiction. Plus, how she taught herself to write in an ultimate period of autodidactic self-study that lasted 15 years.

[00:01:43] And, in penning stories about an often misunderstood religion and its followers which drew scathing reviews. The reason Aaliyah believes religion is really a set up to make people frustrated and mad. That and more is next when Black and Published continues. Aaliyah, when did you know that you were a writer?

[00:02:12] It took me a really long time to learn that I was a writer. And when I was in high school, I always won all the essay contests in my high school. And I remember one day I was sharing one of these essays with a friend. It was something I was just writing for my own pleasure. She read it and came to me and said, you're a writer. And it was the first time that I had ever considered that it could be an identity, you know.

[00:02:40] And it was only in my mid-20s that I started to pursue it as a profession. Why do you think that you may have had a disconnect at an earlier age that it was not something that you could take on as a profession versus when you got to your mid-20s? Just because I'd been steeped in this thinking that a real job involved going to an office and wearing a suit and you carrying a briefcase.

[00:03:10] Growing up, I'd always idealized the briefcase girlies. I saw these images of beautiful black women with closely cropped afros and they wore pussy bow blouses with midi skirts and blazers and they had these briefcases. And I said, that's, you know, what it means to be a professional black woman is to be a briefcase girlie.

[00:03:34] So throughout my life, I've always tried to adapt to that vision of a professional black woman. And I was just never that person. And it's honestly been a point of mourning for me, you know, that I couldn't be a briefcase girlie. But, you know, I am, I am what I am. And I think that, you know, that's a fine thing to be.

[00:03:59] Wow. So then, even in mourning that you could not be a briefcase girlie, you still pursued writing. So what happened that you said, no, I have to do this thing, even though I'm letting this idealized image of professionalism go? Yeah, I think it was just my attempts at that life constantly pushing me into isolation.

[00:04:23] You know, I just felt that I was being rejected by those kinds of spaces. And I finally realized, like, this is not really rejection. It's just life showing me who I really am. And when it clicked for me that I was trying to force a square peg into a round hole, it felt like an epiphany.

[00:04:46] It just felt like you've been resisting this thing that you've been shown at various points in your life is just something that you are. And when I finally accepted, I just adjusted other aspects of my life so that I'd be able to live as a writer. And so what did that look like, being able to live as a writer? Because you talk about isolation in, I'm assuming, corporate spaces.

[00:05:15] But so often life as a writer is also isolating. Did you find more community there and creating that life for yourself? No, I think, in fact, solitude feeds my writing process. I don't write in community. I've never really felt the need to be close to other writers in order to feel that my place in this world as an author was legitimate or anything like that. So I've been to a couple of writing workshops.

[00:05:44] Each one of those was like a week long. And so my formal writing education sort of amounts to that. But I've taught myself really everything that I know about writing on my own. And so solitude really helped me. Can you be more specific about the difference between isolation and solitude, where one is a physical rejection and the other is a thriving?

[00:06:11] And what that feels like maybe in your body and how it feels different for you? The isolation that I felt in my early professional life was really just about weeding out of spaces that I wasn't suited to. But solitude is something delicious and beautiful. It's the longing. You know, I was describing this to my niece the other day. She asked me, she said, Auntie, do you ever feel lonely?

[00:06:36] And I said, no, sweetie, because loneliness involves sadness. And solitude is like, imagine it's you in a dark bathroom with some candles and you have a bubble bath running and some chocolate covered strawberries and your favorite music.

[00:06:55] That's solitude, you know, that's solitude, you know, and so it was a beautiful feeling that not only am I supposed to be pursuing my working life alone, but like I prefer it. I really like being in my own thoughts. And so the one of the benefits of solitude for me is that it gives me the opportunity to be immersed in my own mind and to sort of put my own concerns front and center.

[00:07:22] You talked about being self-taught in writing. And so what did that education process look like? Because there's often so much conversation in the writing community and amongst writers about whether or not an MFA is necessary or not, or whether or not you can do this without that kind of formalized training or cobbling together your own version through workshops and residencies and things of that nature.

[00:07:47] So what did your process look like to develop the craft and skill level that you show on the page? Let me answer that in reverse. I don't think the MFA is necessary to become a very sophisticated writer of literary fiction, but it can be helpful depending on your personal circumstances. And so I don't want to talk down about MFA programs. I just want to be clear about that from the jump.

[00:08:14] And so I think the MFA is a very important part of the writing is that it's a very important part of writing. Because it's a very important part of writing. And writing is never, it should never be that. Writing life should really just be about witnessing life. Witnessing life. And writing well really is just an act of self-respect. It doesn't have anything to do with audience. These are the guiding principles for having a very strong writing life.

[00:08:43] In my case, I had exhausted my money in graduate school pursuing a degree in African history. And I had finished the degree. I submitted my dissertation and I was overwhelmed with the feeling that I'd made a big error in judgment in pursuing this particular degree. And I was crossing the Thames on my way home.

[00:09:09] And a story came hold to me in a matter of a single second. I saw the whole story in an instant. And it felt like a revelation of sorts. It felt like a divine answer to this suffering that I was immersed in, where I was regretting my choice of doing this degree. And so I ran home. And in like an hour, I had written the story.

[00:09:36] And it's a passable story, but nothing that I would feel comfortable sharing to an audience of sophisticated readers. But there was enough there that made me feel like I really need to be pursuing this like all along. This was what, this was my calling all along. And so I spent several years teaching myself how to read as a writer, trying to uncover some foundational principles around what was making these stories work that I was reading.

[00:10:06] And then about three years into that process, I started memorizing story structures. And once I had gotten at least 30 or 40 solid structures going in my head, I felt like, okay, I think I know how to do this writing thing. And I started writing and all of that went out of the window because what I realized is the story is its structure. And to have a unique writing voice, you have to have your own structures. And so that was when the writing started happening.

[00:10:36] And that took the longest of all of the parts of my writing education, teaching myself how to come up with my own structures. And the entire process between the epiphany to the publication of Temple Folk was about 14 or 15 years. Wow. That is a very long commitment. Yeah. So then once you did start writing, are they the stories that soon began to become the stories that have become Temple Folk?

[00:11:05] Yes, they were. So as a younger person, when I was in college and just dreaming about writing fiction, I had always wanted to write about this world, mainly because I hadn't seen it done before. There has not been a single work of literary fiction that's ever been published about the black Muslim movement.

[00:11:31] And I'm using that phrase really deliberately just because there is a lot of fiction about Somali Muslims, Ethiopian Muslims, West African Muslims, Sudanese Muslims, but none that had been published about African American Muslims who were associated with the nation of Assam and Malcolm X. And that was my dream. And that was my dream.

[00:11:53] So I guess, while I was teaching myself these skills, I was also thinking about the kinds of interventions that I wanted to make in the conversation about black Muslims in America. First of all, just to events that we exist, and that it's a legitimate Islamic identity. And then furthermore, that we exist outside of crisis, that we don't live our lives or see our faith solely in terms of the black freedom struggle.

[00:12:22] That there are other kinds of motivations that persuade African American people into this religion. And even those of us who do have a lineage connected to black power and the nation of Assam, our own religious orientation isn't overly political either. You know, like we're just normal people trying to feed ourselves, clothe ourselves, have a love life, you know.

[00:12:49] And so the stories are really just about like the daily realities that people who happen to be African American and Muslim face in this country. What I think I loved about the collection was the range of stories of that daily life that like that quotidian life of African American Muslims in the nation of Islam. And you don't give specifics to a lot of locales, but like I feel like I recognize some.

[00:13:19] I grew up in Chicago, so Farrakhan was a very big presence. So I feel like I recognize some of what was happening, even though I didn't grow up or identify as Muslim. And in some of the stories, there's a wrestling with faith, a wrestling with other parts of identity and faith. And then even what the faith and the political movement have done to parents and then their children and generations and just struggling in all of that different type of identity.

[00:13:46] When it came to your publishing journey, were you excited about trying to put this slice of African American and Muslim life into readers' hands? I was excited about the stories that I was telling, mostly because I was proud of myself to have had the dexterity of mind to come up with the stories. This book really is the product of my mind.

[00:14:14] And I was just really proud that the final product was something of my own creation. Yeah, I was very proud of having done it and then having done it in a way that I thought would make people proud. You know, you're from Chicago yourself, and I'm sure you have friends, if not family members, who might have some connection to the Nation of Islam.

[00:14:36] And I wanted people like that to be able to see some truth in the stories and to see the beauty as well. You know, I think there was a lot of pressure as I was thinking about the kind of landscape these stories would enter into to tell really pejorative stories about the Nation of Islam. And I don't have wholly positive feelings associated with this movement because of what it did to my family.

[00:15:03] But I don't have wholly negative ideas about it either. You know, it was quite a mixed bag. It is a mixed bag. You know, I don't really know the contemporary nation, but from what I gather, it just seems like this movement did as much good as it did harm, you know. And so it was really important for me to not bow to the pressure to just say it was a horrible thing because it wasn't.

[00:15:30] And I feel like Islam as a religion gets that kind of rap, gets a really negative narrative associated with it, especially for Black Americans, where if you look at many religions, and I'm thinking of Christianity specifically, that there is as much harm there as there is good. And I think you can say that for many different kinds of people, no matter what you practice or who or how you call on to God.

[00:15:58] And so in talking about the publishing process and putting it out there, what was it like, you know, querying for an agent and then going on submission and having to really stand on the collection that you wrote and telling these stories? I really didn't go through an agent querying process. My publication story happened in reverse.

[00:16:24] So I submitted about 27,000 words to an open call for submissions directly to an editor. The editor read the 27,000 words and told me he wanted to take me on as one of his writers. I was, in fact, the first writer chosen by this editor.

[00:16:45] And it was after our initial conversation that he told me that I could either run the shop like James Brown myself or find an agent to represent my interests. And so it was immediately following that call that I thought, I need to find an agent. And so I sort of did some research and thought, you know, who are my favorite writers and who represents them? And I found Eric Simonoff that way.

[00:17:15] And I sent him an email and told him that I'd gotten an editor and that I needed an agent now that I had an editor. And five minutes later, he wrote me back this very dry, somewhat disinterested email saying, okay, just show me what you have. And I sent him the same 27,000 words. And the next day I got a glowing message from him. The tone was quite different.

[00:17:42] If we could arrange a Zoom call. And at the end of that Zoom call, he asked me, okay, I have one more question for you. Do you want to work together? I screamed. I said, of course I do. So that was the process for me, getting representation and then landing my book deal. But you said something as a sort of preamble to your question that I wanted to address. And as far as the reception of the book, there have been mixed responses.

[00:18:10] And I think a lot of those responses have to do with people's perceptions of the merits of the work. And I can't quarrel with people on that basis because it's like totally subjective. You know, you liking something or not liking something. However, I do think that there are these political imperatives dictated by our government, you know, the system in which we live, that shape the way that people receive material as well.

[00:18:39] And when it comes to this book, I do think it encounters more than the average amount of cowardice. So it's not surprising to me that people would look at a book that talks about Black Muslims in a favorable light and have problems with it. I should have anticipated that was what it was going to be. But now that I am aware, you know, I'm not really surprised.

[00:19:04] My question was not about that I hadn't really encountered your reviews. I knew of your book because I know who your editor is. And I remember him talking a lot about it. And then I saw all the buzz when you were nominated and longlisted and finalist for the National Book Award. And so I was like, I really want to read this book and just experience it.

[00:19:28] So I wonder, now that you've said that, that it's had this tension around the reception and some of it is propagated by the current anti-intellectual climate that we're in.

[00:19:45] And that is the force behind book bans, which is really about not necessarily banning books, but banning thought and ideas about people and identity and experiences different from, I'm just going to say it, cishet white people. Cishet white Christian people, in this case specifically, that no one writes for validation. But when you enter the industry, that is a part of the process.

[00:20:14] And so you talk about writing as witnessing and you have absolutely done that in the renderings of these stories in Temple Folk. Did that critical reception outside of the awards and accolades shake you or shake your confidence in any way? My confidence was never shaken because my skill set was really cultivated in dialogue with my source.

[00:20:41] You know, it's never really been about a conversation that I'm having with other people other than as a servant of the reader. I take my servitude toward the reader and my reverence of the reader very seriously to the extent that I was shaken. That was the harder part.

[00:21:01] It's just knowing that something that I'd worked so hard on and so earnestly on and that met all of my own personal criteria of excellence could be genuinely disliked by people who are fair readers. And that to me is totally legitimate. But I wasn't shaken by other forces. To me, it's a really intimate relationship that I feel with a reader.

[00:21:27] I just feel extremely confident in my own ability to deliver an excellent reading experience. And when somebody doesn't have that after reading my work, you know, I take that personally. And so we encounter these forces, but we keep doing our work because the rewards are greater than what we gain from our silence. Listening to you speak, it's almost like I'm sitting with your characters, like all of them.

[00:21:56] I feel like your convictions and your beliefs are so deep. And I love that because I can see how invested you are in the work and then talking about being in service to the reader. Would you please read something from Temple Folk so that we can dive deeper into a discussion about your character specifically? Ali Abilal's Temple Folk is a collection of 10 short stories about black American Muslims who at one time were members of the Nation of Islam.

[00:22:22] The stories include a daughter of a megachurch pastor who becomes a Muslim extremist, to a brother and sister who plan and attend their father's funeral only to learn about his Christian heritage before his Islamic conversion. There are kids, adults, men and women all wrestling with their faith as it pertains to other aspects of their humanity, gender, sexuality, race and class.

[00:22:46] The collection is a snapshot of the myriad ways there are to be Muslim, just as there is more than one way to live, love and enjoy the human experience. Here's Alia. So I'll just read a couple of paragraphs from the story Woman in Niqab. And just as a note for your listeners, Woman in Niqab is the first successful short story that I ever wrote in my life.

[00:23:13] I finished and published this story in 2015. So it was a solid seven years before I had written something I really respected. And again, this is the opening of Woman in Niqab. The day after my return home from Egypt, I sat with my mother and her sister Linda, telling them about my time over there. I mentioned things I thought they wanted to hear.

[00:23:40] The Sphinx, I told them, wasn't as big as it looked in the glossy magazines. Compared to the Great Pyramids on the far side of Giza, it was kind of petite with round, nubile features. The atmosphere was light. Except for prayer times, when the Adnan would drift up from a thousand minarets and hover in mid-air like a chorus of ghosts.

[00:24:09] The cities were filled with happy sounds. Children laughing in the streets. The striking of hand drums. And the rhythmic clapping of distant celebrations. All of it was covered in a haze of golden dust that primed everything for memory. Like the sepia tinge of old photographs. Thank you.

[00:24:36] So these stories are not so much about the politics or the movement of the faith as it is about the people in the faith. And so one of the things that I love is that you have trifling parents. You have, you know, interpersonal relationships between men and women that are a little shaky.

[00:25:03] You have problems with children, people wrestling with their motherhood, their sexuality, their desires. All of the things that people wrestle with, no matter what religion they do or don't practice, while in the context of the nation of Islam, which may be seen as rigid.

[00:25:22] And I guess I want to know, where do you see yourself in these stories or as you were trying to talk about life within this framework or this rigidity of this specific sect of the religion? I hope I said that right. Well, something that I want people to be clear about is that the voices in the stories are mostly spoken in a certain context.

[00:25:48] That the nation of Islam, aspect of their identity is something that is past tense. So they are not current members. They were members or their parents were members. That's number one. As far as where I show up in the stories, I'm really not a presence in the book in the sense that the details,

[00:26:08] the kind of events and things that happen to the individual characters never happened to me explicitly, nor to anybody in my life. I do not borrow from the life. I think it is beneath the craft to do that. I know that there are some writers who feel they can do that. But in my case, a work of fiction is truly something imagined. And I really rely on my imagination to deliver the stories to me.

[00:26:36] So the events, the details of the stories never happened to me. However, there are themes of experience that I have encountered that the characters have encountered. Like, I used to cover my hair, and I don't cover my hair anymore. And so the character who's the voice of the story I just read in Manny, that's her story as well.

[00:27:02] You know, she's just had this epiphany that's led her to the conclusion that she doesn't want to cover her hair either. And so we relate on that level, but our reasons are very different. And the things that we experience are very different as well. I think there's another way that I show up in the stories in the sense that other people are a better judge of my character than I am. But in my own assessment, I would say my personality is very mild.

[00:27:31] And 97% of the time, I'm in that very mild space. But because of these character traits that I have, people can try to push and prod at me. And so in those, the 3% of times that I'm not in that mild space, it looks like, whoa, what's going on here? You know? And so these characters in this book can have similar extremes.

[00:27:58] So just like, whoa, you really pushed her to the point of no return, didn't you? And talking about extremes, I'm thinking of the story, I believe it's the Nika? Is that how you pronounce it? Yes, perfect. And that's the story of the friends in the wedding. And at the end of the story, I think the very last line of that story is like she was already gone,

[00:28:22] talking about one of the friends leaving her friend's wedding early to go basically chat with this man on the internet. Yeah, it's like, in a sense, she was already a long, long way gone. And that story talks about some of the different, what would be called extremes of the religion, and how people become indoctrinated in that way. Why was that important for you to show that?

[00:28:52] Well, the nucleus of that story was a biblical tale of David and Bathsheba. I had been reading the Bible pretty seriously at around the time that I came up with that story. And I was really fascinated with the story of David and Bathsheba, because to me, it was just a scandalous affair. You know? And it is. And it is.

[00:29:17] And I just thought, like, oh my gosh, how can we revere this guy who's basically not only an adulterer, but he, like, ordered the murder of Bathsheba's first husband, you know? And so the story sort of built itself around that. But I also really wanted to tell a story about the conversion process and how a person can move into Islam.

[00:29:46] And then find herself at an extreme, you know? Moving from one extreme with her amoral parents into this other extreme in this Muslim space. And I think if the book achieves anything in terms of imparting any kind of practical knowledge onto the reader, it's really just this idea of the middle ground and Muslim normalcy that for the vast majority of Muslims,

[00:30:15] African-American Muslims and Muslims in the world, we just want to live ordinary, boring lives. You know? We care about our kids' SAT scores. We care about driving a nice car, living in a safe neighborhood, going to good schools, dressing and smelling good. Dressing well and smelling good, I should say.

[00:30:41] Marrying someone we love and having a happy life. That's the reality, the social reality of being a Muslim in this world that I think in this country, that where Muslims are allowed to be spoken about in pejorative ways with no repercussions. That is a radical idea for a lot of American readers, you know? But that's the truth of the matter.

[00:31:09] And so I just wanted to, while we're watching this main character go from one crazy extreme to another crazy extreme, you know, in the middle of that passage, we're getting to see a portrait of Muslim normalcy. And that's really, I think, what the story achieves. And what you describe as Muslim normalcy is just normalcy. No matter who you are, looking good, smelling good, going to school or work,

[00:31:39] having your kids do well on their standardized test so they can go to a good college. Like, all of that is normal no matter who you are or where you are or how you identify in life. And so much of the collection, and I'm thinking about the final story, which I believe is Due North, right? Yes. Yes, that final story in the collection where you have this family that is different in so many ways,

[00:32:07] but they're coming together and they're having to wrestle not only with their faith and their identity. You talked about earlier in the publishing process that you wrote the first and final draft of that story within a month of receiving the ARCs. What was the impetus behind this story about this brother and sister, as they go to lay their father to rest, they are uncovering his life before he became Muslim.

[00:32:32] As I was conceptualizing Due North, my primary concern was how could I encapsulate the vital meaning and importance of this movement for a readership that I don't assume is going to have any sympathy with an individual that would choose to join a movement like the Nation of Islam. I think that was the primary thrust and motivation for writing the story.

[00:32:58] But also, I wanted to write this story to encapsulate the conclusions, rather, that I had come to on the point of explaining the significance of the Black Muslim movement within the larger story of African American religious history. And in that sense, I still feel like I operate in the fiction space, but I still am using my academic brain.

[00:33:22] I really do think of the world and my writing of fiction in the same way that I thought about the things when I was preparing myself to become a professor. And I'd read or been fed this notion that we, as African American Muslims, were returning to a lost tradition.

[00:33:47] And in my reading and study, I started not to agree with that. I didn't see our present day experience of Islam as African Americans, as a sort of return to a lost past that had been stolen from us through the transatlantic slave trade.

[00:34:10] What I saw instead was a group of people that were moving through all of the religions, coming into their own authentic, personalized sense of what it means to be a human being living on Earth. And trying to answer these ontological questions for themselves. And Islam being a point along that chronology, not a return.

[00:34:41] That it was like a linear experience that would go on to other kinds of expressions. Because in that cyclical portrait that had been painted for me as a child, if Islam was the beginning, Islam would be the end. And I didn't see Islam as something that future generations would necessarily return to.

[00:35:01] Because, you know, what inevitably happens with, I think, a lot of our religious traditions is that we all, our species, we can always find a way to be disillusioned by religion. And it doesn't matter the religion. So Islam, there are a lot of great things about it. But they're also, I mean, it's a religion. So there are going to be things like people are going to disagree with and approaches to life that aren't going to be suited to everybody.

[00:35:26] So how can that be a culminating point when religion is set up to make a lot of people really mad? And to frustrate people. So it has to continue. And so I wanted to write a story that could do those two things. Just help people understand how a person could be drawn to this movement. And then to explain that Islam is really just one point on a longer trajectory of ontological engagement in African-American religious experience.

[00:35:55] For readers coming to this collection, what do you want them to most know about what it is to be African-American and Muslim? What I really want a reader to take away from this book is just the sense that it's a varied tradition. That there is no one way to be Muslim. There are as many kinds of Muslims as there are Muslims, you know.

[00:36:21] And that we have this sense of a pious and religious life, meaning that we standardize our personalities. But no, that's not what happens. You're a person first. And the religion is an imposition on who you are. It's not inherently who you are. So personality is going to dictate how you show up in the world even more than your religious identity.

[00:36:48] And so just understanding that, yes, these people identify as Muslims, but they're people and they're varied. And they're going to have a lot of different thoughts and feelings and reactions. And behaviors. And behaviors. Thank you. All right. Before we let you go for the afternoon, morning, I want to jump into a speed round. What is your favorite book?

[00:37:15] I'm going to just say Song of Solomon off the top of my head. Okay. Who is your favorite author? Edward P. Jones. I want to put a thousand exclamation points after that name. By far my favorite author living or dead. Oh, that's. I love it. If money were no object, where would you go? What would you do? And where would you live? I would end this, all of these wars in the Middle East. That's what I would do.

[00:37:45] And I would live on the eastern shore of Maryland because I think it's a beautiful part of the country. And I would grow a garden. Name three things on your bucket list. Oh, gosh. They're so abstract. I just want to see my niece grow up and have a happy life. I want to see my parents retire with their health. And I've done a lot of travel, but I just want to keep traveling. I want to be healthy. You know, I think maybe that's the.

[00:38:15] Is that a bucket list item? No. But those are the things I want for sure. I think those are great bucket list items because I feel like so often the bucket list items of like skydiving and parachuting and ziplining and their experiences and they can be great. But I think a life well lived is the ultimate. So I love your bucket list items. Thank you. What brings you joy? Just being with my family.

[00:38:44] I'm very fortunate to have a family that I like and love. So being with my family. And I was thinking about a party we had some years ago and all of us were just dancing together. It was so much fun. We are from Maryland and our family has some property on the Chesapeake.

[00:39:07] And I have these memories of us having steamed crabs, dipping them in butter and watching the fireworks over the water. You know, these happy family memories. I love it. What brings you peace? Solitude brings me peace. All right. So our game is called Rewriting the Classics. Classic is however you define it. Name one book that you wished you would have written.

[00:39:37] The Known World. The brilliance of that man is just stunning to me. I also sometimes wish that I had written. I like a lot of things that I'm not supposed to like. And one of these books that I'm not supposed to like is Of Mice and Men. I really admire Steinbeck as a writer. I relate to him and the way he sees.

[00:40:05] And that's a book that I'm not supposed to like because of the depiction of the Black character. You know, I don't like the way he's referred to in that story. But it's a tightly written, very smart story. So that's another one. Okay. Name one book where you want to change the ending and how would you do it? Oh, that's hard. I don't know that I can even answer that.

[00:40:30] Can I say that I would change the Bible to say that this is just guidance? And please don't kill anybody on my behalf. You know, I just want you to live a productive, happy, safe life. And I don't want you to kill anybody in my name. Don't kill, don't rape, don't pillage, don't plunder, don't conquer, don't colonize. The list is endless of what you should not do in the name of the Bible.

[00:40:59] Or any religious text. Or any religious text. I had to get that off my chest. I'm with you. And I know 97% of you is going to be too gracious to answer this question. So I want you to tap into that 3%. Name a book that you think is overrated or overtaught and why. Oh my gosh, I have so many books on that list. Oh, I am a release.

[00:41:26] I mean, I know people are scathing of my work, which they have a right to be. Because I can be scathing too. You know, I'm here for it. Give it to me. Well, I'm not going to tell you because that'll make me enemies. I don't want to make any more enemies than I already have. Dead people. Dead people. Okay, well, I think we can do away with most of Jane Austen.

[00:41:47] I just don't know how many people can relate to the experiences that are gone. I mean, I feel like people treat her work like it's just essential to being a literary person. I do not feel that my life was really enhanced by being exposed to her work.

[00:42:12] I just felt like I was absorbing the concerns of a very self-consumed person that just has no critique around their own privilege. Like these stupid hoarding and marriage stories. It's just like, who cares? You know, like the servants in those castles or manners have more interesting lives than these kids that she writes about.

[00:42:41] Just like the servants in Downton Abbey were the much more interesting characters in the actual family in that series. I'm going to stand beside it all day long. There's so many people for that list. But you know who I do respect? Herman Melville is somebody I think. I think I'm glad that people read him. I'm really glad that people read his work to this day. Herman Melville is Moby Dick, correct? Yes. Mm-hmm. See, I've had people say Moby Dick for this question.

[00:43:12] Oh, yeah? Okay, that's interesting. Final question. What I would like them to write that they probably won't write is that I was generous and that I was not caught up in the ego of the writing identity. That it was a job for me, but that I did it with honor and respect.

[00:43:42] But that I really, in life, was trying to be a good person more than sit on some perch. Patting myself on the back because I learned how to do this really hard thing called writing. You know, that's really not how I see my life. And I don't think most people do. It's like you get to my age and I'm an older person and you're just happy to have something to contribute. And writing is just the thing that I contribute.

[00:44:07] But I'm glad that I have something I can offer to my species. You know? Big thank you to Alia Bilal for being here today on Black & Published. Make sure you check out Alia's debut short story collection, Temple Folk, out now from Simon & Schuster. You can get a copy of the collection from Mahogany Books and get 10% off your first purchase using code BLACKPUB at checkout. That's B-L-K-P-U-B.

[00:44:37] That's our show for the week. If you like this episode and want more Black & Published, head to our Instagram page. It's at Black & Published and that's B-L-K-N-Published. There, I've posted a bonus clip from my interview with Alia about the parallels she draws between the writing life and being a parent. Make sure you check it out and let me know what you think in the comments.

[00:45:01] I'll holler at y'all next week when our guest will be Jodi M. Savage, author of The Death of a Jaybird. Essays on mothers and daughters and the things they leave behind. And so finally I said, I think I want to write a book about grief and then it sort of expanded to include, you know, my mother and breast cancer. So then I said, I'm going to just do essays. I'm going to write about grief and Alzheimer's and Black women and whatever else I want to write about. And that's just what it is. That's next week on Black & Published.

[00:45:32] I'll talk to you then. Peace. What's going on, family? This is Derek Young. And Ramonda Young. Owners of both Mahogany Books and the Mahogany Books Podcast Network. We really want to thank each and every one of you for listening to this episode. And if you enjoyed what you just heard, drop us a review and rate us on whatever platform you download podcasts on.

[00:45:57] We truly appreciate each and every one of you for supporting us and making us your go-to for Black books. And we look forward to connecting with you all sometime in the future. Thank you again, fam. And always remember, Black Books Matter. Bye. Bye. Thank you.