The Peace of Truth with K E Garland

[00:00:00] I wasn't ready to reveal everything. I was just like, there's no way I'm going

[00:00:04] to tell people about being a sex addict. It's just no way.

[00:00:10] What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams and this is Black and Published.

[00:00:15] Bringing you the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights, and storytelling of all kinds.

[00:00:22] Today's guest is K-E Garland, author of the memoir, In Search of a Salve, memoir of a sex addict.

[00:00:32] It's a book that forced Kathy to confront the traumas of her past and how they impacted

[00:00:37] the life she built with her husband and two daughters to finally live in her truth.

[00:00:42] People have said this to me, well if you're going to cheat then why lie about it? If you don't

[00:00:47] want to just get into a divorce, want to just tell the truth and I'm like, come on y'all.

[00:00:51] I can't even tell you're acting. You don't like the potato salad when you go home.

[00:00:56] So don't try to write it like it is not truth telling it's not easy on any level.

[00:01:03] Confronting the truth with the ones you love and walking out of future free of lies is no

[00:01:09] easy feat. Kathy explains how she and her husband are doing now that she's revealed

[00:01:15] her darkest secrets to the world. Plus how she learns to have compassion for herself

[00:01:21] and her family despite the many traumas she experienced. And the reason she says the

[00:01:28] rest of her life will be dedicated to writing instead of working hard. That and more is

[00:01:34] next when Black and Published continues.

[00:01:45] All right so let's jump in. When did you know that you were a writer?

[00:01:56] I want to say that I knew intuitively that I was a writer when I was about 10 years old.

[00:02:02] My fifth great teacher had entered me into this contest. I had written this book called

[00:02:07] On the Farm and I had created an actual book. I guess I was like self-published in at 10

[00:02:13] years old. And my fifth great teacher thought it was so great she entered it into this contest

[00:02:20] that it was somehow associated with Guendolin Brooks. And I didn't win but I think I knew

[00:02:26] then that I was a writer, but then you know life happens and things occur. So writing

[00:02:33] wasn't like a priority. And especially I like to say especially not in the Black household

[00:02:39] where those things are sometimes seen as like, oh that's cute or oh yeah you can write

[00:02:46] and you were nominated for an award but what you gonna do to pay bills right? So I want

[00:02:54] to say 10, but the actual answer when I knew it in my gut was about 2014 as when it was a

[00:03:03] friend of mine had asked me to write something about going natural and I stumble across

[00:03:07] for Harriet. And I submitted and I'm waiting so because I'm a scholar I'm used to when

[00:03:15] you submit a scholarly journals it takes literal two years to hear from someone. And then

[00:03:23] they might say maybe and if you change x, y and z. And if you do blah blah blah. So I'm

[00:03:30] thinking that's what's gonna happen. No Kim was like yes already published. And I was

[00:03:37] like what? It was already on the site like that day. And then you know over the week is

[00:03:44] like thousands of likes and then people commenting and saying stuff like whatever they understood

[00:03:50] what I was talking about. And I just immediately I was like oh shit I was supposed to be a

[00:03:56] right like it was just so close like oh I think I was supposed to be a writer. I was supposed

[00:04:00] to be writing and saying stuff to people. And then that's how it started. So then I mean you

[00:04:06] said earlier like you know after 10 years old because of life, life ain't it wasn't a priority

[00:04:11] in 2014 after that article went live and I guess went low key viral did you start making

[00:04:17] writing a priority? I absolutely did and I remember sitting there thinking I wish somebody would

[00:04:24] just pay me to like read and write. Oh like that's everybody's fantasy right if you're right. But

[00:04:30] I was like that would be so cool somebody would just pay me to just read and write all day long.

[00:04:36] I would love that. And so then I started you know of course I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I

[00:04:40] know that happens for some people. But at my big age as they say I have you know responsibilities

[00:04:51] we got mortgages and car notes over here. So I knew I couldn't quit my job but I didn't know

[00:04:58] that I had to find ways to prioritize it because it was that it was just so clear to me like oh

[00:05:04] yeah I have to do this. So then what did that look like? The first thing it looked like was

[00:05:10] changing from I was at a research institution and the demands there are very high and I was

[00:05:19] doing it on top of commuting there but basically I was driving home on a commute one time and my

[00:05:25] youngest daughter was like you know when's the next time you're going to be you know on campus and

[00:05:30] I told her I said next time I'll come here it's going to be the move my shit because I'm leaving

[00:05:36] and I didn't know what that meant. I know what it looked like but I just knew and then like a day

[00:05:42] later a colleague of mine at a community college was like do you want a job? I was like I do actually

[00:05:50] yeah and she was like you don't want this job. I was like no I really did like give it to me.

[00:05:55] So that job it was at a different level. I teach five classes before them or online so I had plenty

[00:06:02] of time and because it was at a different level what I like to tell people and I know it sounds

[00:06:06] arrogant but I could teach these classes in my sleep because of my background and my and my

[00:06:13] decrees and so that's what I needed to be able to be the type of writer I wanted to be. I know

[00:06:20] it's not on the book cover which we discussed and you don't really let people know but Kathy is a

[00:06:25] doctor. Y'all so she got that whole PhD behind her name even though she don't want to you know

[00:06:31] play into respectability politics and whatnot we'll get there later. Thank you.

[00:06:37] Just have to let the people know. So then taking a position at a lower level to prioritize your

[00:06:46] passion for writing. What were the kinds of things that you were writing before you decided?

[00:06:54] You know maybe I should move into books. So before that I was blogging a lot and it was

[00:07:03] so all these things were happening at the same time. I'm quitting a job and also I want to add

[00:07:09] that because I don't like it when people make things sound like they're super easy. I didn't just

[00:07:15] change positions. I took a whole pay cut where I was making I want to say at least $30,000 less

[00:07:22] than what I was making. I know it hurts every time I say it's painful but I made that decision so clearly.

[00:07:30] So at the same time I also eventually like 2015 start like healing all this trauma and

[00:07:40] I'm healing it though through blogging so even though I'm like saying yes I'm going to do this

[00:07:46] to help other people and it does help other people. I'm really like pouring my heart out online

[00:07:53] really for myself and also to kind of create community. The blogging world is really really compassionate.

[00:08:03] You can really find your people there and so no matter what I would talk about I'm talking about

[00:08:09] you know some heavy things and there's always somebody like oh I felt the exact same way

[00:08:14] and I wish somebody would have said this. I have never heard the internet described as compassionate

[00:08:19] especially in the comment section. Shao you must be in a different corner than the rest of us.

[00:08:24] I'm telling you go to WordPress it's like I always feel like it's a warm hood.

[00:08:29] All right and so then I know from your blog quoted and that's with a K in a W.

[00:08:34] You then you talking your book about having an essay and chicken soup for the soul

[00:08:44] and your book the unhappy wife and some other projects that you've done.

[00:08:49] Why was that not enough because I mean if you are telling your life online you're basically

[00:08:55] giving them more spoiler alert that you were like you know what it needs to be from start to finish

[00:09:02] about was really going on. Yeah because what I was doing was like kind of protecting myself

[00:09:07] and my identity really if I look back at it especially on the blog so like the title of the book

[00:09:14] is got sex addiction in it. I'm not once anything on my blog about that. So I will talk about

[00:09:21] adoption, I will talk about being married, I'll talk about how sometimes your friend's

[00:09:26] what I have never talked about is any type of addiction or any inkling that I would have had

[00:09:34] that particular issue. I hadn't even talked about drinking a lot and so I felt like if I'm going

[00:09:43] to actually be true and authentic then I think if I put these pieces together people will get

[00:09:50] like a holistic understanding. So we're going to start talking about your publication process

[00:09:57] in for full disclosure, Kathy did publish under my company new Reese publications but before we get

[00:10:03] there when did you start writing what will become in search of us out? As soon as I had what I define

[00:10:14] as a lot bottom moment so in that book I describe like sitting on a porch I think or patio and

[00:10:21] answering this one question. And I think the question was something like what do you fear?

[00:10:26] It's true or something like that about yourself and as soon as I answered that question I'm like

[00:10:32] boohoo crying but after that I start writing, I'm like why do I feel this way? And I really started

[00:10:40] writing it right like that day. I think the first sentence is like later in this book now it was

[00:10:47] something like books were my sustenance, that was the very first sentence I wrote because I was thinking

[00:10:52] like how did I get to this point not just with all of the themes but like I'm not reading for enjoyment

[00:10:58] I'm not writing anything I'm not doing things that I like how did I get here? So I started writing

[00:11:04] in 2014 and then I kept remembering things like oh then this happened, oh then my mother did this

[00:11:12] and then it started kind of being pieced together but still like with your earlier question

[00:11:17] I wasn't ready to like reveal everything. I was like there's no way I'm going to tell people

[00:11:23] about being a sex addict. There's just no way and not in 2014 definitely so my first iteration of

[00:11:30] that book was called Patulia which was my birth name and so it was just going to be about adoption

[00:11:37] like this is just going to be a story about adoption and how adoption affects people in blah blah blah

[00:11:41] but then I kept remembering stuff and then I read Melody Beatty's co-dependent no more and I was

[00:11:47] like oh no I'm co-dependent and that's what's wrong but then I thought no there like came a time

[00:11:54] I was like oh no I'm gonna have to write about sex addiction but still it wasn't it wasn't in search

[00:12:00] of a style. I was going to write it like in a pistolry like I had this diary and it was going to be called

[00:12:06] diary of a sex addict right but it was going to feel like me confessing to my husband like oh I'm

[00:12:13] trying to tell you something but you know here it is but but that wasn't and I rewrote it each time

[00:12:19] I'm like rewriting this book so I have like all these different versions right you looking like that

[00:12:26] that's why he was like I need more I'm like oh my god I thought rewrite this thing all the time but

[00:12:33] but that's what yeah I have like literal thousands of word versions of each one wow because I'm

[00:12:42] each time I'm like no this is not right no this does not right and then once I decided but even

[00:12:47] the diary part it wasn't right either because I hadn't kept a diary it was kind of inauthentic you

[00:12:54] know you have to you like cross the rinse affiction when you do stuff like that and I wanted it to be as

[00:12:59] real as life baby mission accomplished because when I got it I said ma'am we can do some things but

[00:13:09] actually what I first said to you was it's too good for me to publish if you want me to help

[00:13:15] you find an agent and go the traditional route let me know and you were like no and I was like huh

[00:13:23] because I was like I didn't think I could do it I really didn't so for those that are looking

[00:13:33] to publish a lot of people may only think about big five deals or self publishing and there's a

[00:13:41] myriad of things in between which is where I guess my little company lays with vanity booty publishing

[00:13:47] right so why was it that was something that you wanted to do when I still think you could have

[00:13:54] gone a different way so two answers the first part is and I think this book shows this

[00:14:00] I I was raised with valuing so much like valuing being like the top right so I attended these

[00:14:08] magnet schools where that's the push the push is like you are the best and you better act like it

[00:14:13] you're supposed to go out in the world and do great things and so I lived in that which is why

[00:14:18] I ended up driving hundreds of miles twice a week to go to a research institution right because it's

[00:14:24] like oh I belong here and I don't care what you'll say I know I'm supposed to be here but all of that

[00:14:30] you know you end up burnt out you end up doing things that you that are not aligned with your spirit

[00:14:36] and by this time I was like I am not about to work hard anymore and I don't I don't mean that

[00:14:42] to say that I'm not going to work and do the best that I can right like there's a difference between

[00:14:48] pushing like a rock uphill as opposed to being an alignment and then working hard for that when

[00:14:56] you know it's supposed to be and so a lot of my life was focused on like academics and being the best

[00:15:03] and I was like yeah I'm not I don't have anything to prove to anyone again I earned a PhD from an R1

[00:15:11] I'm not proven shit else I'm tired and so that was the first part the second part is because

[00:15:18] I have I've read a lot about like the differences between you know Indie and traditional and vanity

[00:15:26] and blah blah blah and I know that I'm a good writer I don't think that because I went with you

[00:15:33] that that means I don't have a good book or that I'm not a good writer and I think sometimes that's

[00:15:38] what people think so that's the first part but I get what you were saying because it wasn't you

[00:15:44] aren't just saying like oh it could be published here you were saying like some of it is resources

[00:15:48] right um you don't necessarily when you go to certain publisher you don't have that person doesn't

[00:15:53] have the resources that like a Simon and Schuster would have so I get that part but that I'll

[00:15:59] talk about publishers right but but I also know there are other things that can happen right so

[00:16:06] for example we publish this book somebody else could read it and pick it up and do a repa

[00:16:12] so I'm not I guess I'm I just know that there are other possibilities and actually there's three

[00:16:19] answers like I said before like I said before I wanted somebody black and female to to work with me

[00:16:28] and I didn't want a chance that you know you go to a publisher and of course they might have one

[00:16:32] black person that person might be female that person you know so just because you brown doesn't

[00:16:38] mean that you're gonna read my words and get it and so I had interacted with you in different

[00:16:45] ways that you didn't know I've been vetting you for like a year unbeknownst to me right you had no

[00:16:52] idea that I'm like stalking you on social media some reading stuff that you've written online

[00:16:59] trying to see who you are listening to this podcast but now I'm on I mean who knew but I was

[00:17:06] like oh no she's okay and then you know reading a book that you already published so all of those

[00:17:13] things I didn't go until it's likely I was like no it has to be a very specific person and you are

[00:17:19] the person okay thank you um yeah thank you that I didn't know any of that because you know I

[00:17:29] 'll be over here mine in my business job um so then once we got into the publishing process

[00:17:36] and you talk about having to me telling you I need more I need more and making you go back and

[00:17:43] go back and go back what was that like for you personally having to dig that deep and put even

[00:17:50] more detail and pull out even more of those memories and really give them life on the page it

[00:17:58] was so much and I was over here cussing you about I'm sure I'm sure um it was a lot but it was good

[00:18:06] so I have to say a lot of people think well let me back up I'm a solo writer like I know a lot

[00:18:13] of writers have writing groups and do all the things and because I'm also a blogger I'm used to

[00:18:18] like eakin out something and press and publish and trust in my gut and so I told people all throughout

[00:18:25] this process it was actually good because I think I have 40,000 words and I won't be first met

[00:18:31] you're like that's kind of light and you know I kind of I'm always bucking people so I'm like I don't

[00:18:35] have to write them any words to somebody to get what I'm saying and you just looked at me like I was nuts

[00:18:41] and so I was like okay so eventually once I got that you know my head wrapped around it I was like

[00:18:48] this is good because I would have if I was doing this myself like truly like a true self publish

[00:18:54] I probably would have pressed published you know and sent it out at 40,000 words but honestly it

[00:18:59] wasn't right that wouldn't have been okay and I remember you saying you're asking a reader to take

[00:19:05] a journey with you and I was like yeah this is true so they deserve the reader deserves the best

[00:19:12] so it was really hard though um because I honestly thought that I had processed everything

[00:19:17] and that it was already and I was good and so there were some parts like specifically I remember you

[00:19:26] saying like you seem to like have like more compassion for your dad than you do for like your

[00:19:32] mother and your grandmother and why is that and I had to really like sit into a like oh why I don't

[00:19:38] know I didn't even realize that why is that um it was hard it was a lot of like more crying where I had

[00:19:47] to not only come the terms with all this is how I really feel about this person but then deciding

[00:19:54] like for a memoir you got to decide are you gonna actually say that on the page for all to see

[00:20:01] well since we're here now and you've already told it all don't head look get a little black and

[00:20:06] published audience just a little taste of this memoir of a sex addict that you've written here

[00:20:12] ke garland's memoir in search of a sad explorer's kathy's first introduction to sex from the time she

[00:20:19] was a little girl and the central role it played in her life as she navigated her fractured family

[00:20:26] and loneliness by seeking the attention of men raw honest and at times heartbreaking this memoir

[00:20:34] of a sex addict adds context to the salacious physical acts while exploring how to heal to

[00:20:40] finally come out on the other side here's kathy so at this point my mother has died I have been

[00:20:50] shipped away to live with my grandmother in another state and like a little country town and I'm 17

[00:20:56] years old and my father has given up his parental rights even though there was absolutely no reason

[00:21:02] to do that at a night should have separated after the third pregnancy for some reason I couldn't

[00:21:09] and I leaned into the opposite action I told him when he graduated we could get an apartment

[00:21:15] I fantasized with him about marrying and having kids it was a grand narrative with which I conspired

[00:21:22] and filled with bold lives grandma honey would never allow me to move into an apartment with a boy

[00:21:28] while pursuing a degree she and my grandfather paid for furthermore if I wanted to have his

[00:21:34] children I could have by now I didn't want to and I really didn't want him in year two eddie graduated

[00:21:42] and began to fulfill the first part of our pledge he attended a business college in the same town

[00:21:47] where I was he rented an apartment less than 15 minutes away but I met a new boy his name was will

[00:21:55] he was from Detroit it was his first year he was an education major like me his birthday was in

[00:22:03] May like mine he was an only child like me his glasses were as thick as the bottom of a throwback

[00:22:09] coke bottle but that was okay our meeting was destined will and I had sex within the week

[00:22:16] like Kenny and Trey he pumped and panted on top of me while I lay their daydreaming my relationship

[00:22:22] with Eddie lingered in the background our commonalities meant will and I were supposed to be together

[00:22:28] however other parts of our connection proved otherwise the first incident was when will's favorite

[00:22:34] cousin Tammy junior came to campus I'd never heard of a girl being a junior but will said she was named

[00:22:40] after her mother Tammy junior had protected him throughout childhood which explained how he made it

[00:22:47] unscathed with his glasses in a Detroit public school she's meeting us at the football game he said

[00:22:54] don't be nervous as long as you don't do anything to hurt me she's cool

[00:22:58] Tammy junior and will sat next to each other behind me I stared at the field in silence

[00:23:04] what you tell her she looked scared to death she laughed just told her not to do anything to piss

[00:23:09] you off clarity is oftentimes presented in spurts flashes of intuition beg to be heard sitting

[00:23:18] at that football game in front of Tammy junior I suspected will wasn't my forever loved but like

[00:23:23] my continued relationship with Eddie I feared a breakup I didn't want to be alone will and I took

[00:23:30] a semi independent road trip to Chicago he and I drove the marquee my grandparents had given me

[00:23:36] while my grandparents trail behind we popped a cassette tape in and sang shy's if I ever fallen

[00:23:42] in love in perfect harmony rewind that let's sing it again he urged and if I began no like it was

[00:23:51] the last time he wind I did sing it like last time no you didn't he said and pressed stop we drove

[00:23:58] in silence for the remaining hour the road trip confirmed my feelings but we remained in a relationship

[00:24:05] for another getaway will took me to his home in Roseville Park he's spoken about his military

[00:24:10] retired father and beautiful mother with such fondness that I couldn't wait to meet them

[00:24:15] so you're from Chicago his mother asked as she handed me a bathroom to cover up my pajamas shorts

[00:24:21] yes I said tying the sash so tell me do you prefer neat and markets or lord and tailor

[00:24:27] what a strange question in general my mother shouted a store called venture a place that sold

[00:24:33] stale pizza and clothes it's where I received my first relaxer if she was fancy then we go to

[00:24:39] JC Penny we went to Marshallfield Suspelerge and Neema Marcus when red tag signaled there was

[00:24:44] something she could afford Neema Marcus I answered because they have more sales I since the answer

[00:24:50] was inadequate for her monogram bath towels and petite hand soap the four of us stared at the television

[00:24:57] will and I sat on the couch backs aligned with their taut sofa chin's tucked his parents sat in

[00:25:03] Victoria and style arm chairs the next day we saw a movie and then his parents drove us back to

[00:25:08] campus will and I argued constantly one day he was so infuriated that he hurled an apple onto my

[00:25:15] dorm wall scaring the shit out of me most of the apple fell but a lot of chunks hung on to the white

[00:25:21] stucco for the remainder of the semester symbolic of our union his friends thought I was being abused

[00:25:27] so they told a professor who happened to be friends with my grandmother are you okay she asked

[00:25:33] I assured my grandmother I wasn't being abused and I could less fond of will as the semester

[00:25:38] wore on I began to strategize I'd wait until Christmas break and slowly seize communication when

[00:25:45] we returned for classes after the new year how did you learn to have compassion for yourself

[00:25:55] through all of your experiences multiple pregnancies relationships the hiding the lying how did you

[00:26:05] give yourself that grace I didn't until maybe the last two years I think I was still judging myself

[00:26:14] and over time I learned to give myself compassion mainly because I interact with so many

[00:26:22] different types of people that I have really learned that each and every one of us has something

[00:26:28] that we're hiding so that kind of helped me to think like oh okay like why am I trying to hide this

[00:26:35] thing I shouldn't feel bad about this when everyone's doing something that's the first part

[00:26:41] but really just in the past two years I think and especially with finalizing this particular project

[00:26:47] reading it I started to feel more empathy for myself because the more I think iterations you have

[00:26:56] the farther away like now I read this and I'm like who is this girl I will also

[00:27:01] right cuz just like it doesn't even feel like me so the farther I am from it to the more I'm able

[00:27:07] to be like poor her right and I feel like that sentiment that poor her feeling is very pronounced when

[00:27:16] you talk about being adopted first of all you throw that in there so smooth it is like what the fuck

[00:27:25] I was like we've gone through so much to the point and then you like oh and I'm adopted is like wait

[00:27:31] what yeah I got to get all the way up right yeah and then you begin to break down your

[00:27:40] biological family history and how that's compounded on your adoptive family history and almost like

[00:27:48] you do this break in character between who you are and who you could have been if you were raised

[00:27:56] by your biological family one way to that idea come from just as a writing technique because I was

[00:28:03] I have never then too was that really how you saw yourself it absolutely was so the first thing is

[00:28:12] I wanted the reader I want the reader to feel like I felt when I found out I was adopted because

[00:28:18] that's how it felt yes you can accomplish because that's how it was when I found out like

[00:28:24] I'm what I'm laughing but I still remember it was like a kick to the head who like wait what yeah

[00:28:33] and on top of everything else then there's this right yeah and then it's also like this idea will

[00:28:38] just keep moving on and so I wanted it to kind of be like that like yeah this is how I found out

[00:28:42] and now let's continue this story but also like adoptives it's kind of for adoptives to have

[00:28:49] like these identity issues where we're always thinking about they call it a ghost family and I learned

[00:28:56] that one this is a watch yeah when he did that I was like oh my god I used to do the same thing

[00:29:06] where you're sitting you have all these scenarios like my my real family is this and this is what

[00:29:13] we would be doing and so I felt so affirmed when I saw that episode like I didn't know that was

[00:29:20] the thing that have been something I was doing my entire life like having this split identity

[00:29:27] once I found out it's like you think about where are these people and who are they and did I you know

[00:29:33] but I see them at the grocery store or something or and then you have like because you have to not

[00:29:38] be thinking about that constantly but then there came a time you know with processing

[00:29:45] where I did have to sit and I had to think about yeah who would I have been like let's be realistic girl

[00:29:50] you couldn't have been raised by this biological mother it just was not gonna work

[00:29:55] and quite honestly not even my biological father who now I'm in contact with

[00:29:59] I'm like neither one of y'all was it just wouldn't the worst so yeah I wanted the reader to feel all

[00:30:06] of that how you fantasize but then you got to bring it back to reality so you mentioned earlier

[00:30:11] that you had the anthology the unhappy wife that you are a wife you are still married you have

[00:30:17] two children and your book is about sex addiction and there is a reckoning point that you have

[00:30:25] with your husband with your spouse in the book that you detail how has it been

[00:30:32] since that you know full revelation and now that the book is out because I know when we started

[00:30:39] working together you were like yeah he's already told me I'm not reading this book

[00:30:45] yeah so he has changed his mind and yeah face I wish people could see your face

[00:30:56] he has changed his mind but also just to make you laugh I told him I said well you can reach

[00:31:00] uh part one and two and four we don't skip three you don't need to read that so I literally went

[00:31:07] through and redacted with a big black marker on both sides because I was like nope

[00:31:13] and so he was like well you don't have to do that and I'd say you know you're right I probably

[00:31:18] didn't have to do that because we are two different people so like if it was me and you told me not

[00:31:23] to read something I would like read the first print but like I could read this and so he said no

[00:31:28] I'm not doing that he said because I don't want to know and he said if you told me I'm not supposed

[00:31:33] he said I don't want details I don't want to know whatever and I was like okay cool so he says

[00:31:39] he's gonna read it he has two or four right only he's been given he's been given his

[00:31:47] directives and he's gonna follow them and the see-set person I was telling you about she told me

[00:31:52] she said first she was like he doesn't need to read that that's not the way to go and I saw her

[00:31:57] the one two and four print she's like well he could read that she's like he could do that but yeah

[00:32:01] definitely don't read part three so absolutely not right so that's his plan and we will see

[00:32:12] how that goes but to answer the question I like how has it been it's been a lot and it's been a lot

[00:32:19] for this is the first time that I thought well maybe we need to go to like couples therapy or something

[00:32:26] because he was having a hard time of course like that's to put it lightly and because of his personality

[00:32:36] I think he thought well I know he thought that he was going to be able to like I tell you this stuff

[00:32:42] and then you just get over it in three days because that's what has happened before which is

[00:32:47] illustrated in the book right but two years later yeah like we to be honest like to be totally honest

[00:32:55] would be like one week we have an old divorce conversation and I'm like okay I'm not going to stay

[00:33:00] in this house or what am I going to do and the next week we like you know at the beach celebrating

[00:33:05] our anniversary it's very I posted that I'm not Instagram

[00:33:14] I told my sister I said I'm a little bipolar um relationship I don't know so like but it's

[00:33:22] that's what has been but I hate to say it's actually a better relationship because

[00:33:30] there are there is no nothing like he knows who I am I know who he is I'm clear about it

[00:33:38] he's had to do kind of like what I had to do with him which is you know once you know things

[00:33:44] more clearly than you think back like oh well now remember that one time this happened oh is

[00:33:51] oh okay so back in that but you know we going through the he's going through the years and I'm like

[00:33:56] I don't know about when I come down for breakfast if he in 1995 or if we hear or

[00:34:03] so it has been a lot and I don't want people to think just because I'm like laughing it really

[00:34:09] has been a lot and it's that's my answer it's a lie I'm not and I see why people lie

[00:34:16] you see why you lied yeah because who wants to go through like I really do for a long time and

[00:34:22] people will say this and I don't know when people read the book then I'm gonna say this but people

[00:34:26] have said this to me well if you're gonna cheat then why lie about or if you don't why don't you

[00:34:31] just get it to for us why don't you just tell the truth and I'm like come on y'all some of y'all

[00:34:36] came and tell your auntie you don't like the potato salad when you go home so don't try to

[00:34:42] write like it does not truth telling is not easy on any level so then with that said what do you

[00:34:50] want readers to take from all of this truth that you told not just about yourself because yes

[00:34:58] it's it's your dirt but it also talks about how compounded trauma and then remaining silent about

[00:35:06] it does the body and the mind no favors so what do you want readers to take from I think that

[00:35:15] aspect of the book beyond just the salacious details of the sex addiction people are gonna take from

[00:35:22] it wherever they're coming from so like this one reviewer I know she's adopted she's like

[00:35:28] transracial adoption and so I could tell from her review that's what she focused on she focused

[00:35:33] on this idea of having compassion for you know your birth parents or for your origin family right

[00:35:41] that was her whole review whereas somebody else's you know is something else even talking to

[00:35:48] oh you might find this interesting so my youngest daughter finished the book recently and she

[00:35:53] was like so I have a list of 22 questions and I'ma come over and talk to the girl says my daughter

[00:35:59] so she was like I'ma come over and talk to you about it and she did and we talked for an hour

[00:36:05] and a half and it was great it was not anything it wasn't what I thought it was gonna be it was her

[00:36:11] telling me some of her secrets that she would think that I would be you know angry about

[00:36:17] it was her kind of affirming some things that women go through that I didn't think were common

[00:36:25] like losing your virginity or even the part that I read like whereas some women feel like those first

[00:36:32] encounters those sex encounters are like oh is this just what does this subdued kid know me

[00:36:38] that seems to be common um I'm not saying it's common for her I'm just saying that we talked about

[00:36:44] stuff like that and so to answer your question I think that whatever I know that wherever the reader is

[00:36:55] that's what they're gonna get from it let's go to the speed round in the game before we wrap up for

[00:37:00] the afternoon and Dr. Kathy what is your favorite book my favorite book is Jasmine Ward's

[00:37:08] Men We Read Who Is Your Favorite author I don't know if I have a favorite author it was Terry Mcmillan

[00:37:15] for a really long time mainly because she I think just showed that you don't have to write one way

[00:37:22] and also you don't always have to have like some greater you know you can just write a story

[00:37:28] because you like the story and it reflects people so I really out yeah I wouldn't say she's my

[00:37:37] favorite but she definitely showed me some things what do you think is the best book to movie adaptation

[00:37:43] I for pie I really like that yeah I really like the book and I really enjoyed the movie is there

[00:37:50] any author that who's working reading you be like you know what I have retired from writing

[00:37:55] you just want to burn your notebook oh man I would say yeah I will go back to Jasmine Ward like I think

[00:38:02] she does a really good job of putting like these concepts together but telling this story to prove

[00:38:11] a point which of course is what a memoir is supposed to do but she does it so skillfully it's like

[00:38:19] I don't know it's like almost like you didn't I'm like oh okay because you get so lost in the story

[00:38:24] and and that's kind of what I envision I like I want people to get lost in the story but still

[00:38:30] get half this point right like yeah take something away from it right if money were no object where would

[00:38:37] you go what would you do and where would you live so I have actually been thinking about this

[00:38:43] because we started doing like these long like these eight week stays overseas and yeah and it

[00:38:51] actually works out really well um so I'm gonna speak from like doing that Costa Rica was I think

[00:38:59] is a place that I could actually live if somebody would fund that for me that would be great

[00:39:06] yeah Costa Rica any part of it it was a so it's full of brown people you know they speak Spanish

[00:39:16] the food is good there's beaches like what else do you really need yeah okay I agree

[00:39:23] what would you be doing in Costa Rica I think just kind of like waking up and maybe writing

[00:39:30] maybe not I'm kind of I'm like looking forward to just doing like waking up and doing what I want

[00:39:36] at some point now three things on your bucket list oh I don't have a bucket list because I kind of

[00:39:42] like I really don't I like have ideas and then I just kind of make them happen

[00:39:49] because you know you have this one life amen maybe

[00:39:54] hmm what bring me what brings you joy I'm not doing this with you today oh what brings me joy let me see

[00:40:04] um it brings me joy when I feel like I have helped someone in any type of way like I really get

[00:40:12] excited about that when people reach out and tell me that even like with this book before it even

[00:40:18] came out I've had like people DM me like oh my gosh I think I've had this problem and I can't wait

[00:40:24] for the books to come out and for you to even say it out loud it's helpful and I'm like okay

[00:40:31] like who knew so yeah I just think helping people in any type of way yeah and what brings you

[00:40:39] peace lately like telling the truth it's like it's scary it's scary but it really is the most peaceful

[00:40:48] thing to not have the burden of holding on to things that you think people shouldn't know hmm well

[00:40:57] I'll write then we go switch to our game rewriting the classics name one book you wish you would have

[00:41:04] written hmm book I wish oh you know what the coldest ones are ever sister soldier I don't know why

[00:41:10] I just love that book so much and it was that such a pivotal like moment but yeah I think that would

[00:41:15] be I was not expecting that but amen I'm diverse Nikita Elise I think every black person has read

[00:41:26] the coldest ones ever and if you haven't and you're listening to this podcast turn it off and go

[00:41:30] read it right now post-taste right um black card revoked if you have not right I just that

[00:41:37] just wasn't the answer that I was expecting um and not that I had an expectation it just that

[00:41:43] just wasn't on my big old card today name one book where you want to change the ending and how would

[00:41:49] you do it yeah I don't think I have one where the ending needs to be changed I really don't okay

[00:41:55] name a book that you think is overrated and why as a former English teacher I don't understand why

[00:42:02] why we are relegated to Shakespeare every year why does like any Shakespeare anything he's written

[00:42:10] he or she has written just take it down he's not even American I don't understand why

[00:42:17] why we're reading that in America like as the you know no would you trade Shakespeare for August Wilson

[00:42:25] sure I would absolutely okay so then final question when you are dead and gone and among the

[00:42:33] ancestors what would you like someone to write about you and the legacy of words and work that

[00:42:39] you've left behind I hope that they say she showed us how to tell the truth big thank you to Kate

[00:42:50] Garland for being here today on black and published make sure you took out Kathy's memoir and search

[00:42:56] of a cell memoir of a sex addict out now from new reads publications and if you're not following Kathy

[00:43:04] follow her on the socials she's at ke garland on instagram and twitter that's our show for the week

[00:43:13] if you like this episode and want more black and published head to our instagram page it's at black

[00:43:20] and published and that's b l k and published there I've posted a bonus clip from my interview with Kathy

[00:43:29] about why she didn't and still doesn't go to therapy despite her addiction and all the trauma

[00:43:36] she's experienced in her life make sure you check it out and let me know what you think in the comments

[00:43:42] I'll see you next week when our guest will be lamia h author of the memoir jab butch believes

[00:43:50] it didn't feel possible for me to not be muslim because I find these ideas so compelling and so then

[00:43:58] to me it became a question up well how do you carve out a space for yourself within this religion

[00:44:06] and you know it's really funny because I actually think about this all the time in terms of

[00:44:10] queerness to that's next week on black and published i'll talk to you then peace