Surviving the Worst with Anissa Gray

[00:00:00] I treated like a job. Even though no one was expecting anything, me I didn't have an

[00:00:04] agent, I didn't have a publisher, I had just the dream but you don't realize a dream

[00:00:09] until you do the work. So I showed up for work as a writer every day.

[00:00:15] What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams and this is Black and Published.

[00:00:21] Bringing you the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights and storytellers of all kinds.

[00:00:27] Today's guest is Anissa Gray, author of the novel, Life and Other Love Songs.

[00:00:33] It's a book that uses music as a metaphor to examine the aftermath of one man's decision

[00:00:39] on his entire family after they lose the love of their lives.

[00:00:44] I think we all have our own sort of private soundtracks for our lives. The ups and the downs,

[00:00:48] songs that mean something to us that speak to us. So that's what I was thinking about.

[00:00:52] Music is such a part of our lives and in a lot of ways it tells our lives, our life stories

[00:00:59] from the beginning to the end and most of all love which is at the heart of this story.

[00:01:05] Anissa started her career as a journalist even though she always knew she wanted to write books.

[00:01:11] The turning point in her life that brought her back to her passion. Plus, the reason she says,

[00:01:18] writing life and other love songs was harder than writing her debut novel.

[00:01:23] And how she processed her own personal tragedies on the page.

[00:01:28] That and more is next when Black and Published continues.

[00:01:49] So we're going to jump right in. When did you know that you were a writer?

[00:01:57] I would say when I was a pretty little kid, before I could even write words,

[00:02:02] before I really learned to read I used to write these stories with picture panels.

[00:02:07] And it was then that I thought I might become a writer. I wasn't certain I was a writer at that time

[00:02:12] but I felt the book.

[00:02:14] So having that feeling as a child and then actually coming to do so as an adult,

[00:02:22] what was that trajectory like for you?

[00:02:24] Yeah, so I grew up being just a huge reader and obviously when I learned to read writing

[00:02:30] my own stories. But I went on to college thinking that I would probably be either an English professor

[00:02:37] or a journalist with that hope of becoming a writer in the back of my mind.

[00:02:41] I had student loans and bills to pay so I did an actual job.

[00:02:45] So I ended up becoming a journalist and I loved it.

[00:02:49] I still do, that's my day job.

[00:02:51] But a few years ago I got pretty burned out in my job

[00:02:55] and that whole dream about becoming a writer was revived.

[00:03:00] And I sat down and I wrote my first novel.

[00:03:04] It was not very good but I kept going so if there are any aspiring writers out there listening,

[00:03:10] you know, don't stop. Keep going to learning process.

[00:03:13] I wrote my second novel with just the Karen Feeding of Rehab Honestly Hungry Girls

[00:03:18] that novel I managed to get an agent and a wonderful publisher

[00:03:22] and that novel came out in 2019.

[00:03:24] You know it was my first novel.

[00:03:25] All right so you tell that story as if it almost happened nearly overnight.

[00:03:34] I am a journalist, former television producer, don't do that work anymore.

[00:03:39] Completely understand what it means to be burned out by the grind of journalism,

[00:03:44] especially as a black person in this country and the stories that we have to tend to cover.

[00:03:49] So in reviving your dream to be a writer besides the day job,

[00:03:56] you talked about the first novel that you tried to write was it very good.

[00:04:00] But what did that experience teach you about your dreams and what it takes to achieve them?

[00:04:07] Well I'll go back to my job as a journalist.

[00:04:11] I mean, it's all I've done for my professional life and one of the things

[00:04:17] you did the job but you know about deadlines and you know about the need to respect deadlines.

[00:04:23] So that created a work ethic for me.

[00:04:26] So when I decided I was going to write a novel, I was quite serious about it.

[00:04:30] So I treated it like a job.

[00:04:32] Even though no one was expecting anything,

[00:04:34] me I didn't have an agent, I didn't have a publisher, I had just the dream

[00:04:39] but you don't realize a dream until you do the work.

[00:04:42] So I showed up for work as a writer every day,

[00:04:46] at least for the schedule that I set for myself.

[00:04:48] And you know some days I had good days writing,

[00:04:52] some days I had some not great days writing,

[00:04:55] but I showed up for work every day.

[00:04:57] And that made the difference and I think a lot of that discipline comes from having been

[00:05:02] a writer and respecting and setting those deadlines.

[00:05:07] From the first book that was unpublished to the care and feeding of

[00:05:13] ravenously hungry girls to life and other love songs,

[00:05:17] how has your writing process changed?

[00:05:20] I'm a more comfortable writer now.

[00:05:22] In sort of in the beginning, that's actually a great question because I'm writing now my third novel.

[00:05:28] So that first novel is an experience and I know itself.

[00:05:31] It's new, you know, you somewhat have no idea what you're doing.

[00:05:37] You're trying to figure out the story but you're also learning craft.

[00:05:43] So that was sort of learning and it was just very green with that project.

[00:05:50] For the second book, that's that was an entirely different writing process because when I

[00:05:56] sold my first book, I got a tube of deal.

[00:05:59] So I had a deadline for the second book.

[00:06:02] People were expecting something from me.

[00:06:04] So there's a lot going on in your head at that time,

[00:06:07] at least for me with that second novel.

[00:06:11] I talked to both my agent and my editor who are wonderful.

[00:06:14] And they were like, look, you know, the second novel is it tends to be a challenge to write

[00:06:21] because you have something out there and now there's some expectation of you.

[00:06:26] So I was writing against expectations.

[00:06:28] This novel, the third novel, I feel like a much freer writer.

[00:06:34] I feel like I know what I'm doing.

[00:06:36] I told my editor, I feel like a novelist.

[00:06:39] I didn't feel I can say I felt that way when I wrote my first.

[00:06:43] But I do so now.

[00:06:46] Can you talk more about writing against expectation?

[00:06:51] And I would assume still in the development of your voice.

[00:06:56] As a writer, you say you're more comfortable now but that's after the two books have come out.

[00:07:00] So what has it been like in knowing that feeling that pressure like,

[00:07:05] I got this to be deal.

[00:07:07] I got to write this book, I got to make the deadline, I got to make the money.

[00:07:11] There's an audience that's expecting a kind of thing from me.

[00:07:16] Yes, it's a lot of pressure.

[00:07:19] The second novel was it was really difficult for me to write from that perspective.

[00:07:24] And then there was also the fact that I was writing during COVID and lockdown.

[00:07:29] And so there was a lot of minutes there.

[00:07:31] But yeah, for me and a lot of that is a function of my personality.

[00:07:35] I tend to put a fair amount of pressure on myself.

[00:07:38] I tend to speak to myself in a voice that probably literally no one is using

[00:07:44] in reference to me.

[00:07:46] But it's the voices that I think are out there.

[00:07:50] So just personal pressures that I take full responsibility for putting on myself.

[00:07:56] All right.

[00:07:56] Then knowing that you were going to have this pressure even going into

[00:08:02] the revision of your first novel.

[00:08:04] Can you talk about your publishing process and the deal and doing the thing

[00:08:09] that you've always wanted to do after a long career in journalism?

[00:08:12] Yeah, for me it was quite a rare thing.

[00:08:16] I wrote my first novel in my 40s.

[00:08:19] It's usually a younger writer's game.

[00:08:21] But I wrote my first novel in my 40s.

[00:08:23] And I was really fortunate with respect to the hunt for an agent.

[00:08:29] I had gone to numerous festivals and I was active in the writing community here.

[00:08:36] I had a great reading group that actually I still have.

[00:08:39] And so when I went out to query,

[00:08:41] I had actually met some agents along the way.

[00:08:45] So I was able to, I had made sort of a connection even though I wasn't finished

[00:08:50] with my novel when I met this agent.

[00:08:52] But she was just lovely and wonderful.

[00:08:54] And I finished my novel and I sent it to her

[00:08:57] and I had queried some others as well.

[00:09:00] And several rejections but when I sent my novel to her,

[00:09:05] she was like, you know, this is good, but it has some problems.

[00:09:07] I need to know that you can fix these problems before we go forward.

[00:09:11] And I managed to fix the problems.

[00:09:13] And we went forward with Karen Feeding

[00:09:16] and it ended up going to auction, which was great.

[00:09:19] I talked with three great wonderful editors

[00:09:22] and I ended up with the editor I have now.

[00:09:24] I'm at a Berberon after Berkeley

[00:09:27] and it's been just a wonderful experience.

[00:09:28] That whole team has just been incredibly supportive.

[00:09:31] They believe in the work I do.

[00:09:33] And it's just been wonderful.

[00:09:36] The editor writer relationship is, you know,

[00:09:39] you really have to get that right because it's, you know,

[00:09:43] it's a fairly intimate relationship

[00:09:45] because you're writing for me through difficulty.

[00:09:49] And my editor was right there with me

[00:09:51] being able to sort of push back

[00:09:54] and to be able to challenge me

[00:09:56] in ways that were really thoughtful

[00:09:58] and in ways that I could take.

[00:10:00] You may have said, you know, you're dealing with someone

[00:10:02] basically questioning your judgment,

[00:10:04] you know, questioning your writing.

[00:10:05] And if that's not done in a way

[00:10:08] whether it was real care

[00:10:09] and you know that this person is in there with you

[00:10:13] that it can make the writing process

[00:10:15] that much more difficult.

[00:10:16] And I am incredibly blessed to have an editor

[00:10:18] who has just the right touch with that.

[00:10:22] Yeah, you talk more about what you mean

[00:10:24] by writing through difficulty

[00:10:26] if it's not too personal

[00:10:27] because I would, you know,

[00:10:29] you're still going through life

[00:10:31] so having an editor that

[00:10:35] is cognizant of the exterior factors

[00:10:38] but then also still like

[00:10:40] we still got to make this book the best that it can be.

[00:10:42] And so I'm going to call you out here.

[00:10:44] Can you talk more about that?

[00:10:46] Yeah, for my second novel

[00:10:48] in addition to having those, you know,

[00:10:50] writing against expectations that I talked about

[00:10:53] there was also COVID

[00:10:54] and my father

[00:10:56] was among the first people to die of COVID

[00:10:59] so he died in March of 2020

[00:11:01] and you know, I was writing

[00:11:03] and I was writing about

[00:11:05] and my father and I had a conflict with relationship

[00:11:09] and I was writing about the disappearance of a father

[00:11:11] so, you know, there were just a lot of emotions

[00:11:15] and talking to my editor through that

[00:11:17] so she knew all of these things

[00:11:19] that were going on in my life

[00:11:21] and so, you know, we get through that

[00:11:23] and we get it a decent novel

[00:11:24] and sort of

[00:11:26] near the end when we're in final edits

[00:11:29] I had to have a history of me

[00:11:30] so I went through sort of

[00:11:32] you know, I'm fine

[00:11:33] but it was a scary process, you know

[00:11:36] so full history of me

[00:11:37] during final edits

[00:11:38] and you know, my editor is with me

[00:11:41] that whole time

[00:11:42] and still having those difficult conversations

[00:11:45] and still getting things right

[00:11:47] but also having that just incredible emotional support

[00:11:50] so since we're here

[00:11:52] let's go to the reading

[00:11:53] and to really talk about the book

[00:11:57] life and other love songs

[00:11:58] tells the story of Oz Amstead

[00:12:01] and his family

[00:12:02] after Oz disappears on his 37th birthday

[00:12:05] his wife

[00:12:07] already greeting the end of her career

[00:12:09] is doubled over by her lost husband

[00:12:11] and their daughter

[00:12:12] is left to fend for herself

[00:12:14] while Oz's mother and brother

[00:12:16] keep going

[00:12:17] the best way they know how

[00:12:20] told in times before

[00:12:22] and after the disappearance

[00:12:24] Anisa's novel offers a chorus of voices

[00:12:27] sent to the music of Motown

[00:12:28] to answer the question

[00:12:30] can you survive the worst

[00:12:32] and begin again?

[00:12:33] Here's Anisa

[00:12:34] so I'm gonna read a little bit

[00:12:36] the moment where Oz is at a funeral with his wife

[00:12:39] and it brings back for him memories

[00:12:43] of his own family

[00:12:45] his mother Pearl

[00:12:46] his brother Tommy

[00:12:47] and the death of his own father

[00:12:50] when Deborah's father died

[00:12:51] in the summer of 1981

[00:12:54] they took his body home to Mississippi

[00:12:58] Deborah asked Oz to go with her

[00:13:00] to the funeral

[00:13:01] she had not asked anything important

[00:13:02] of him since his confession

[00:13:04] over the past year

[00:13:07] they had settled into a new normal

[00:13:09] it was a routine of trying

[00:13:12] which meant self-conscious date nights

[00:13:14] fewer arguments

[00:13:16] spontaneous emotional outburst from Deborah

[00:13:19] outbursts that would have Oz sheltering

[00:13:22] in his basement office

[00:13:24] as it hurt tears were a tornado

[00:13:26] and he'd need only wait for the storm to pass

[00:13:29] Oz felt like Deborah's request

[00:13:33] for him to go with her

[00:13:34] to the funeral was a test

[00:13:37] was he truly sorry

[00:13:39] he reminded her that he did not like churches

[00:13:42] he reminded her where they'd gotten married

[00:13:44] as if he needed to

[00:13:46] he reminded her that he had not attended his own father's funeral

[00:13:51] not inside the church anyway

[00:13:53] she did not press him

[00:13:55] but her grief was ambient

[00:13:57] it filled every space in their home

[00:14:01] when it met with Oz's guilt

[00:14:02] he agreed to go

[00:14:05] the minute he and Deborah took their seats at the service

[00:14:08] he knew he'd made a mistake

[00:14:11] he could not get comfortable in the confines of the church pew

[00:14:15] Deborah gave him sharp blances every time he moved

[00:14:19] his mahalia jackson adoran paper fan

[00:14:21] identical to the ones fluttering

[00:14:24] in almost every other hand

[00:14:26] proved useless at cutting through the heat

[00:14:28] that had inched over 80 degrees

[00:14:30] he had not been down south since leaving Alabama in 1962 when he was 17

[00:14:36] he tried to focus on the service to keep himself

[00:14:40] from thinking about just how closely suddenly felt

[00:14:43] everything he hurled his mother

[00:14:45] and Tommy his brother thought they'd gotten away from

[00:14:49] for them it had been more than poverty

[00:14:52] and the humiliations of Jim Crow

[00:14:55] for them it had been life

[00:14:58] it had been death

[00:15:00] it had been the reason Tommy had said

[00:15:02] sometimes I wish he'd let me die that night

[00:15:06] I was tried to quiet his thoughts

[00:15:08] he focused on the hat on the head of the woman

[00:15:10] trying to name each flower

[00:15:13] the hat was black with black daisies

[00:15:15] and a sizable black mom

[00:15:18] what were the other flowers all done in black

[00:15:21] even as he tried to keep himself grounded

[00:15:24] with his guessing game

[00:15:25] his mind jumped the state line and landed in Alabama

[00:15:29] on the date of his own father's funeral

[00:15:31] on that day

[00:15:32] assets stood across the street

[00:15:35] as everyone filed into the church

[00:15:38] he'd watched through one of the windows

[00:15:40] as mourners walked past the casket

[00:15:42] that had to be closed because of the condition of the body

[00:15:46] there was not much of a body left

[00:15:48] they all gave their condolences to Pearl

[00:15:50] she didn't deserve it our thought

[00:15:53] she was to blame for so much

[00:15:54] including the fact that Oz could not bring himself to enter that church

[00:16:00] he went back across the street to watch and wait

[00:16:03] in the silt of that June day

[00:16:06] two hours later

[00:16:07] Pearl emerged from the service dry-eyed and unreadable

[00:16:11] Tommy's face was a pained grimace

[00:16:13] as he struggled to carry the casket with the other callbearers

[00:16:18] his hands were still bandaged from what he

[00:16:20] and Oz had endured a week before

[00:16:24] Oz's forehead and cheek reflect with painful cuts from shattered glass

[00:16:29] Oz caught his brother's eye from across the street

[00:16:31] he knew what Tommy was thinking and he shook his head

[00:16:34] he could not join him

[00:16:37] it was all he could do to stand there in bear witness

[00:16:40] Tommy nodded he understood

[00:16:43] Oz did not stay to watch them load the casket into the hers

[00:16:47] he could not bear that

[00:16:48] he knew his father would be carried away and buried soon enough

[00:16:52] he was doing his best to put everything at rest

[00:16:55] but he was restless now as he said uncomfortably beside Deborah

[00:17:00] in the church pew

[00:17:01] everything in him felt unsettled

[00:17:03] as her voice rose to join the congregation and singing

[00:17:07] well look way down the river and what do you think I see

[00:17:10] I see a band of angels

[00:17:12] and they're coming after me

[00:17:13] ain't no grave can hold my body down

[00:17:16] a children through Oz even as everyone around him

[00:17:21] fanned hard against the heat

[00:17:22] it was the cold realization that yes

[00:17:26] he tried to hide himself behind a midwestern accent

[00:17:29] new ways and the love of his family

[00:17:32] and yes he tried to bury the truth

[00:17:34] of who he was along with his father

[00:17:37] but he was suddenly singing a kind of resurrection

[00:17:40] as he stared and dissaired

[00:17:43] at the open casket at the foot of the altar

[00:17:46] thank you you're welcome

[00:17:49] so you title the book life and other love songs

[00:17:53] even though so much of it is about heartbreak

[00:17:57] and death and yet you equate life

[00:18:00] or the continuance of life to a love song

[00:18:03] why is that?

[00:18:07] well first i'll step back and talk a little bit about the title

[00:18:11] um when i'm writing a book it usually the title usually comes to me

[00:18:15] sort of first off you know it's sort of a north star

[00:18:18] to write towards and that happened with this book

[00:18:21] but as we got closer to the end of the writing process

[00:18:24] talking to my editor the title title just wasn't working

[00:18:27] so we ended up you know going back and forth over a bunch of different

[00:18:31] title ideas on the other side of the point of exhaustion

[00:18:34] and we got to the end and my editor

[00:18:37] so came up with this idea of life and other love songs

[00:18:41] and in the immediately click

[00:18:43] and the reason is that one of the main characters

[00:18:46] Deborah in the book is an aspiring singer she's gifted

[00:18:50] she loves music

[00:18:52] and music plays a big role because of that in this book

[00:18:57] when us and Deborah meet you know they meet

[00:19:00] she's performing you know and you know they meet

[00:19:03] and they to a song

[00:19:05] and music particularly the music of Motown comes up throughout this book

[00:19:09] you know it's soulful music for me is

[00:19:13] yeah i think we all have our own sort of private soundtracks for our lives

[00:19:17] the ups and the downs songs that mean something to us that speak to us

[00:19:21] and so that's what i was thinking about when that title immediately clicked

[00:19:24] with me how music is such a part of our lives

[00:19:29] and in a lot of ways it tells our lives our life stories

[00:19:32] from the beginning to the end and most of all love which is at the heart of this story

[00:19:39] okay so i'm trying to have grace for us because i don't i didn't like him

[00:19:46] especially when i found out what he did i was like man why but

[00:19:52] and talking about how he held back his emotions

[00:19:58] and the scene that you read which haunted him throughout his life and throughout

[00:20:04] the pages of the book why was it important for you to try to

[00:20:11] drill down deep into the motives of men in general but this man specifically i feel like so

[00:20:20] so many times i see male writers really digging into women and this was refreshing to see it the

[00:20:26] other way yeah um i was a really difficult character to write i mean you have this person who

[00:20:34] does something absolutely unforgivable to my opinion but that to carry him through to i mean

[00:20:43] you may not end up liking him in the end i actually ended up loving us

[00:20:48] um but you do end up understanding him and that is sort of a writerly goal to create a character who

[00:20:57] is you know essentially unlikable but to have and it's in it's great for me when i hear from readers

[00:21:04] you know how many just hate us but others who just really came to just have a real hard form

[00:21:12] and that's where i ended up after i finished with the character for me it was it was wanting that

[00:21:17] challenge but i also wanted to write a really complex character i was interested in exploring sort of

[00:21:24] how do you come back from doing the worst can you even so it was really a question i feel like

[00:21:31] i was did come back but when i sat down to write the character i wasn't sure that he would

[00:21:36] mm and then it almost seems like

[00:21:39] like how do you come back from doing the worst is almost parallel to how do you come back from

[00:21:46] the dead because if you do something so harmful to someone generally i would think the immediate

[00:21:53] reaction especially if it's your spouse is that you are dead to them like you're so hard that you

[00:21:59] can't get over whatever you had before whatever the relationship was before that's now completely

[00:22:06] gone it's dead and yet here in this book he did the worst he couldn't come back from it initially

[00:22:15] and so there was a death in the form of his disappearance and then we go on this journey to

[00:22:23] figure out how he justifies what he did what he's done what he's doing i guess it is that

[00:22:29] what you were playing with like you know if you do the worst you could be dead to somebody so why not

[00:22:33] just be gone i think in a lot of ways he he was dead to Deborah i mean when you see how their story

[00:22:39] wraps up in the end it's not in a meatball for them i don't think it could ever be for her so in some

[00:22:44] ways he was dead to them but looking at it from all this perspective i felt like it was sort of an

[00:22:50] opportunity for a resurrection of the self for him um you had this man sort of in his early life

[00:22:58] really trying to find himself you know trying to strip away all that he was he was a boy

[00:23:03] from Alabama but he didn't want to keep that accent you know he wanted to change in everything he

[00:23:08] did not want to be that person so we're we stick with him through this this period of just really

[00:23:14] trying to find who he is he does something horrific and he has to go back and then truly

[00:23:20] find himself and through that you know we see the resurrection of the man and i think in my

[00:23:26] opinion a better man a man who understood and who had compassion and who made an incredible sacrifice

[00:23:34] um hmm to come full circle so we've talked about us in Deborah but there's also a third voice

[00:23:40] in this book and that is of their daughter Trinity who is basically like left to raise herself

[00:23:47] after a certain point because of all of the grief that her mother is under from losing her dream

[00:23:55] and not knowing how to cope with that and then her father going missing and nobody in the family

[00:24:02] really knowing how to help her through that because everybody's dealing with that grief as well

[00:24:08] and so i wonder where do you see Trinity story but just because just as Asin Deborah's story doesn't

[00:24:17] end in a neat bow Trinity is all over the place especially as an adult

[00:24:22] so you know that i feel like Trinity was kind of finding her place right literally in the last

[00:24:32] sentences of the book yes but it's like to be continued we'll see if this if this growth continues

[00:24:43] because it's she's doing a lot yes she is um but i felt like she had found stability

[00:24:55] literally in the final words of the book um i closed that manuscript feeling and very hopeful

[00:25:02] for her again not perfect and and i and i tend not to like wrapping things up for characters

[00:25:10] in a neat bow life doesn't work that way we hope for our characters and i ended up having a lot of

[00:25:16] hope for all of the characters there at the end in the midst of this you talk about it set in the time

[00:25:22] of motown and music plays a big role in the book and we have Deborah and Oz in Trinity story but

[00:25:31] Oz is a brother who is gay and it's in the middle of the HIV AIDS crisis of the 80s that we're seeing

[00:25:46] not so much his comfortability of being out but the necessity of doing so to love the person

[00:25:58] that he did why was that an important storyline for you to incorporate in this book about love and

[00:26:04] love songs because for me it sort of takes us back to to Oz and the relationship between brothers i

[00:26:14] have sibling and that that sibling relationship i wanted to explore a number of familial

[00:26:21] relationships in this book you know mothers and daughters you know husbands and wives

[00:26:27] you know partners and Oz and Tommy you know their story as siblings is sort of rooted in trauma

[00:26:39] and some of that trauma stems from Tommy having been gay and you know at a time when

[00:26:48] you know even now it's so not perfect for some but the time when you know it just was not spoken

[00:26:54] about and the abuse he suffered and all he had to deal with and Oz as his brother witnessing that

[00:27:03] and i was interested in exploring the closeness that developed between them as a result of Tommy

[00:27:11] being gay and it wasn't an easy closeness because Oz you know he was not 100% comfortable with it but

[00:27:17] he also loved his brother and was also trying to come to a place of understanding even as Tommy

[00:27:23] was trying to come to a place of understanding and so i just wanted that thread to run through the book

[00:27:29] and it ran through in Tommy's story and Tommy is actually one of my favorite characters in the book

[00:27:35] I do like Tommy um what do you want readers to take away from this complex web of family

[00:27:44] relationships that you've woven? I think it's it's a really sort of simple message you know even

[00:27:52] sort of through we see this family going through some pretty difficult moment I mean really stressed

[00:28:02] almost to the end of their sort of emotional comfort but in the end I think what we see you know

[00:28:10] we talked about with Reluctivity and some of the other characters at the end um in the end

[00:28:15] I think the biggest message is that we see this sort of love and and care you know that through it all

[00:28:22] that is what endures for this family for each member of the family I would say even as they have

[00:28:27] their own struggles so now that this book is out and the pressure is kind of off when you work in on next

[00:28:35] um I'm working on a novel third novel about it's it's somewhat broad still still working through

[00:28:47] things but it's about family but more about chosen family and sort of inside a commune and

[00:28:56] and what what sort of grows out of that and I'll leave it there

[00:29:01] so

[00:29:03] chosen family in a communal way

[00:29:08] yeah I'll just leave it there yeah that's nothing more to be said until it comes out

[00:29:15] all right so I want to switch to a speed round in a game before I let you go for the afternoon

[00:29:20] what is your favorite book at the moment my favorite book is a good Lord bird by James McBride

[00:29:26] I love that book who is your favorite author hopefully Janet Wooderson she's a British writer

[00:29:32] what is your favorite song um I had to come back to that that would have um you want to hold

[00:29:42] I know but I don't have one favorite song or even one favorite genre um you know it depends on the

[00:29:48] moment I mean right now I'm listening a lot to Alicia Keys author's a forever I love that song

[00:29:56] okay if money were no object where would you go what would you do and where would you live well I

[00:30:03] think I live right here in Atlanta my wife and I would love this city but where we go

[00:30:09] we would go on a couple of African safaris um that's what I want to do most right now

[00:30:16] yeah

[00:30:18] as I'm here for that uh name three things on your bucket list the African safari finished my third book

[00:30:27] and um you just retire soon from my day job okay I was like retire like what's your

[00:30:34] little retire which is my day job okay I got you I got you right full time

[00:30:40] what brings you joy honestly riding my bike and listening to music I love that um and being with

[00:30:47] my family what brings you peace I would say being with my family and if you have one what is your

[00:30:54] hidden talent I have no hidden talent I literally have none but you know you're seeing all I got

[00:31:06] just say it's these words okay all right so our game is called rewriting the classics and classic

[00:31:15] is however you define it name one book you wished you would have written um and probably

[00:31:22] joining Morrison's the fullest eye um that is just you know masterful okay what's one book where you

[00:31:32] want to change the ending and how would you do it I cannot think of I can't think what um and that

[00:31:41] is in part because I tend to make peace with any ending if but even if I don't like the ending

[00:31:46] you know I try to have peace with it this is what the author intended um you know what a mind

[00:31:53] to take away from it that's big of you because I'm a reader who gets very invested and then

[00:32:03] there are books where I love the entire book and so maybe like the last page and I'm just like really

[00:32:09] I just I mean that's an ending that I mean I wouldn't change it you know it's what it's what

[00:32:15] amputate intended but uh it surprised me and I was like okay you said bell canto

[00:32:26] and so you may or may not answer this question but name a book that you think is overrated

[00:32:31] or overtought and why I can't answer that that's why I said overtought I can't answer that

[00:32:40] no words all right so my final question for you today when you're dead and gone and among the

[00:32:46] ancestors what would you like someone to write about the words and work that you've left behind

[00:32:52] that I was a good writer that's the highest praise right now big thank you to Anisa Gray for being

[00:32:59] here today on black and publish make sure you check out Anisa's latest novel life and other love songs

[00:33:06] out now from Berkeley and if you're not following Anisa check her out on the socials she's at

[00:33:13] Anisa Gray author on Instagram and Anisa is spelled a-n-i-s-s-a that's our show for the week

[00:33:23] if you like this episode and want more black and published head to our instagram page it's at black

[00:33:30] and published and that's belk and published there I've posted a bonus clip for my interview with Anisa

[00:33:39] about how she greed the death of her own father by writing the story of us make sure you check it out

[00:33:47] and let me know what you think in the comments I'll see you next week when our guest will be

[00:33:52] Linda honey author of the memoir The Heartbreak Years I think a lot of black women

[00:33:59] this like ability to invest in ourselves and bet on ourselves happens for a slater in life like

[00:34:05] when you think of your favorite black women celebrities a lot of them their career peaks are like

[00:34:12] when they're 40 whereas a lot of these white women celebrities their careers peak when they're 20

[00:34:17] so like don't give up on yourself just because you don't have white privilege to like

[00:34:22] subsidize your dreams that's next week on black and published I'll talk to you then peace