Note to Self with Riss M. Neilson

[00:00:00] I feel like it's a story of my life. It's just like with all my races and everything else, right? Nothing fits in a box. I do not fit in a box. I don't fit anywhere.

[00:00:08] What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams and this is Black and Published, bringing you the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights, and storytellers of all kinds. Today's guest is Riss M. Neilson, author of the romance novel A Love Like the Sun. It's Riss' third novel after being pushed

[00:00:29] into her writing and publishing career when she thought she had to give it up. It was an amazing MFA program, but it was fully funded for a lot of money. I was actually going

[00:00:37] to be making more money than I was. I was a CNA, so it was like, it was the money, you know? It was the money, it was the security of the money. I thought that was my only option,

[00:00:46] if that makes sense. I didn't think I could take the time out of work to write a book, and I didn't end up doing that. Riss has persevered in her writing career, despite divorce being a single mom and being diagnosed with a chronic illness,

[00:01:00] how she healed herself through writing her characters. Plus, the reason she refuses to stick to one genre in her novels, and the difference between when Riss knew she was a writer and when she accepted it for herself. That and more is next when Black and Published continues.

[00:01:19] So, Riss, when did you know that you were a writer? So I started writing when I was in the fifth grade, poetry. I entered a school competition and I didn't think anything of it. My poem was about like flowers, like tulips in springtime,

[00:01:50] and I won the competition and it gave me like a really big head. I was like, I'm a poet. And I just, I continued to write poetry after that for a long time. But then I started writing

[00:01:59] fan fiction very seriously when I was about 14. I used to have a lot of followers, but I would be in my room in the dark and I'd be writing and my mom would have no idea what I was doing. And I was

[00:02:10] just writing like crazy fan fiction and for all different type of shows. And I don't know, I just was like, I love this so much. But I'll be honest, when I didn't know for sure that

[00:02:22] I could even be a writer until 2017 about. So it hasn't been that long because in my family, it's like you're going to school to be a doctor, like, you know, not a doctor, but you're going to school

[00:02:34] to do something in the medical field or that sort of like there's no jobs, like there's no jobs other places. So my family always like push for that. And I was doing an ultra technology and

[00:02:44] then I took a creative writing class in college. And then I was like, I love this so much. And then also what happened to me was my professor, Emily Danforth, she's an author. She pulled me

[00:02:56] aside like probably our first writing assignment. She was like, do you write seriously? And I was like, no, like I'm just like, I'm just playing around. And she was just like, no, you have to

[00:03:06] take this seriously. And I was like, what do you mean by seriously? She's like a career, you know, like I'm an author, like I get paid to write books. And I was like, oh,

[00:03:15] and yeah, with her help, I like switched to creative writing as a major, like my family was like, what? Because I was getting into the ultrasound technology program. And I just took a leap. And

[00:03:26] and then I was going to an MFA program, but I wasn't able to go long story. I was getting divorced and stuff. I wasn't able to go. And she actually forwarded my 50 pages that I had.

[00:03:38] I only have 50 pages. She forwarded them to my agent now, who is her agent. And she was like, you have to take a look at this book. And she didn't tell me she did it. Like, and she was

[00:03:46] like, I did something sneaky behind your back, you might be mad at me blah, blah. And I was like, what'd you do? And then Jess called me Jess Regal is my agent. And she was like,

[00:03:55] if you write this book, I will sign you just write the book. And I was like, oh, and she was like, yeah. And I was like, okay, so I wrote it in two months. And she signed

[00:04:05] me. And then here I am like, it feels like, oh, it feels super surreal. I had no idea. It wasn't even a thought in my mind. Like I wasn't like, I could be an author. I've been writing

[00:04:14] since I was in the fifth grade. But I just, yeah. So I don't know if that answers, I feel like that's a really roundabout long answer. That was a really roundabout long answer you

[00:04:23] covered like the first two sections of this podcast and that first answers to my first question. It's okay because we're going to break it down and unpack. In 2017, what happened in that year that you said, was that the year that you took the creative writing class?

[00:04:38] No, I took it the year before that. But you mean like when did I, what happened in 2017? Yeah, that made you say like, I'm a writer. I won a huge award at school for writing and another

[00:04:48] author judged it. And the author was also like, wrote me a note on the side and was like, I hope you take this seriously. Like, you should do this. And I was like, okay, his name is

[00:04:56] Nick White. And then I also won like my school contest, like the poetry contest. I just kept on like winning awards in school and doing, and then I was just like, maybe I'm a writer. Like, I don't know. I was just like, okay, it took me a while.

[00:05:09] You're telling me that you're winning awards, winning big awards, you're getting encouragement pulled to the side from the judges of contests and your professors. But you're saying it's so nonchalantly like, I don't even know, do you believe that you are a writer now,

[00:05:21] even though you have a book out and like one to come? I feel like imposter syndrome is crazy, you know, and it takes you a while to really, I think I won't lie. I think this it's hard. But I think I've been writing my second,

[00:05:35] my second book in this current contract. So my fourth book. And this is the first time that I was writing and I was like, I'm doing this, like I'm creating worlds and I'm building worlds. And

[00:05:46] I'm writing something that is going to be consumed by other people. I'm a writer. I think this was the first time I ever felt that. So I'm like sitting in that feeling, because I'm not going

[00:05:54] to lie before this, it has almost felt not like a fluke, but almost like it just happened. You know what I mean? Like it just happened to me. Does that make sense? Like, I was like,

[00:06:04] oh, this wasn't a thing. And then all of a sudden it just landed on. I don't know. And it's not true. It's not true because I like work for it and I took classes, but it also feels

[00:06:14] like that sometimes because I just didn't, I didn't believe it. So you're right. I didn't believe it. I feel like sometimes that's going to sneak into my language and it's going to

[00:06:20] make it sound nonchalant. But, but I do believe it now. I do believe it's not I've been sitting with it. All right. And I'm also about to ask you a personal question you don't have to answer. I'm going to ask you this personal question because it's something

[00:06:33] of what I'm going through as well. Even though I think you're younger than me. You mentioned that you got divorced and before we started like officially the podcast, you talked about you have children. Do you think that going through that transition of from being

[00:06:49] married to getting divorced and then accepting what it is that you do and are good at and are becoming successful at helped you to accept more of like this is who you are and

[00:07:01] this is what your life is going to be as a writer and not like brushing it off as like not something that's a big deal. Obviously with the divorce and everything, a lot of

[00:07:12] I don't know how to explain this but growing up he I was with him since I was a kid. So part of it was like, you know, all those I don't know something about that relationship.

[00:07:20] It came with all of the old me baggage. Like, you know what I mean? Like I felt like I felt like I kind of left myself like an old version of me behind and we have so many

[00:07:30] versions of ourselves. But I felt like I left a big version of myself behind that was always worried about making sure I don't know if this makes sense, but I take care of everyone else and,

[00:07:43] you know, in that family dynamic and and not take care of myself. And I think something about needing to let go of that also helped me because we were going to Texas for my writing

[00:07:54] program when I asked for the divorce. So something about having to do that really put into perspective for me that like, I need to take care of myself. I need to be happy. And what makes me

[00:08:06] happy? I'm a writer. Like this makes me happy. And I was like, before I always almost felt like I had to make sure I'm taking care of our family. I had to make sure that me and him

[00:08:18] were always on the same page. And something about like letting go of that allowed me to like, freed me up to experience this other thing where I was like, you know what, life is short.

[00:08:28] I'm gonna go after what I want. I want to be a writer and I'm going to do it. And if it doesn't work out, then I'll figure it out. It was really scary though, because like I said, I have kids.

[00:08:37] So being a single mom, it was like, if this doesn't work out, you need to, you know what I mean? You're gonna have to be working 60 hours a week and you know, gotta eat. Yeah, the kids

[00:08:47] still have to eat. Like that's it period. So I was like, all right, get it together. And I don't know if that makes sense, but it just helped me. It definitely helped me. It's funny too,

[00:08:55] because he's great and he's still in my life now. But even when I look at him now, I always feel like that old version of me, you know, like someone else, I was never able to do this when I was with

[00:09:05] him. And it's not because he was holding me back. It's just because everything about our relationship felt like it came from a place of us needing to grow up together. You know what

[00:09:14] I'm saying? And fast and take care of our kids. We were together since high school. You know what I mean? And then my daughter was 11. Thank you for one for answering and being open

[00:09:25] and vulnerable about that. But I'm glad you're going to the work. Couldn't you said you couldn't be a writer while you were together. And yet you talk about when you were going to your MFA

[00:09:37] program to Texas, that's when you asked for the divorce. He was gonna come to Texas. So on that note, he was, he didn't want to go but he was like supportive, you know what I'm

[00:09:47] saying? He was like, all right, this is something you want to do. What am I gonna do? I have to come. And it was kind of that thing but I think part of it was one, I'm not gonna lie. It was

[00:09:58] like the need to make money because obviously we're a family and that relationship. And there's something different about saying, I'm gonna go to MFA program where they're gonna pay me X amount

[00:10:10] of dollars for a couple years to write in a program than it is to actually throw yourself out there into the publishing industry. And to be like, I'm gonna sell books and I'm gonna

[00:10:19] make it work and I'm gonna make money. Like that just feels so different. Like the MFA gave me the security to give to him to say, hey, this is like, I want to write. I want to be a writer

[00:10:32] and this is my dream. And here's the way that I can do it. And it will be fine for our family still, you know what I'm saying? It gave me like that comfort and that security.

[00:10:42] MFA was fully funded. It was fully funded. Yeah, I was going to Missionary. So it was fully funded. It was an amazing MFA program. It was fully funded for a lot of money. I was actually

[00:10:51] gonna be making more money than I was. I was a CNA. You know, I was a CNA. I was probably gonna be making more money than I was. So it was like, it was the money. You know,

[00:10:59] it was the money was the security of the money. I thought that was my only option, if that makes sense. I didn't think I could take the time out of work to write a book to,

[00:11:07] you know, and I didn't end up doing that. I ended up, I was working 60 hours a week when I wrote Deep in Providence, but it's because I had no choice by then. I didn't have him anymore.

[00:11:15] And I didn't have an MFA program anymore. I didn't have any of that security. It's just like, this is the time if you're going to do it, find a way to make it work. So I feel like

[00:11:25] before it's not that I couldn't do it. I'm saying couldn't, but it's that I always felt like I shouldn't be doing it. It's probably should. I shouldn't have been doing it because if I

[00:11:34] did that meant sacrificing out of time of being a mom of being a partner of being of being a provider, you know. And he never put the pressure on me in a bad way. But the fact

[00:11:46] of the matter is that that is how it is when you're like in a partnership and in that type of marriage. It just never felt like I had the chance. Like I was like, when am I going to have

[00:11:54] the chance? And now I think it's a little silly. I think I had to go through that process. And I think the divorce was like meant to be I'm happy it happened. But now when I think

[00:12:04] about it, I was alone for a year. I didn't write anything at all. I didn't write anything. I literally thought I was giving up my dream because I thought when I gave him up,

[00:12:11] I had to give up this opportunity to be a writer. You didn't go to the MFA program? I didn't go. I didn't think I could do it. I was thinking about was who's going to

[00:12:19] watch my kids who's going to be there for them when I'm in a program for 30 hours a week and then coming home. How am I going to do this? And I also just didn't want to take them

[00:12:28] from their dad either. You know, like that was a big day for me. He's such a great dad. So I didn't end up going to the program. I thought I made the biggest mistake ever. And I literally was down for a year. I was just down.

[00:12:39] So then what brought you back to writing and was deep in Providence, but what became your debut novel? Was that what Jess Regos got the first 50 pages of? I tell that story.

[00:12:50] Yeah. So the first 50 pages of that book are what I got into the MFA program with too. So I got into my MFA program with the first 50 pages of Deep in Providence. I tweaked them a little bit so that they could be more magical realism,

[00:13:03] but I could never get past that 50 pages. Like, I don't know. I was struggling. I was like, I was working. I was also like, it's not going to do it. You know, like I was just negative

[00:13:12] about it. And then when, and that's exactly what happened, Emily had those 50 pages already. And I remember the exact moment I knew she was going to do something like I was like something off about this conversation because we were on a phone call and she was like

[00:13:26] talking to me about it. And she kept on asking me, are you still writing? And I was like, ah, not really. And she was just like, you're not writing anymore. She was like, you, you can't give this up. And I was like, I'm not giving it up.

[00:13:38] I was like, I'm not giving it up. It's just a pause for now because I, I don't really like have the time and I can't commit it. And all she heard was excuses. And thank God for that. Because then she emailed Jess. She didn't even tell me.

[00:13:49] She just emailed Jess, sent her the 50 pages. And then I received a phone call from Jess and she's like, Hey, you don't know me. But if you write this book, I can sell it. And I was like, Oh, that's different. Right? When you need money, I grew up,

[00:14:03] we didn't have money. Like I grew up, we didn't have money. My family was like, we've always grew up like pretty poor, you know, like so I'm was like, I hear like, you can sell it. And then the security of that is like,

[00:14:13] Oh, I was like, you know what, maybe I can work these 60 hours as a CNA and be up at night like you can maybe sell it. So I ended up getting the book done really fast.

[00:14:25] I got the book done in two months. And I was like, I'm gonna get it done. And I gave it to her. And then a couple weeks later, she was like, I read it. I love it. Here's my contract.

[00:14:34] So sometimes honestly, I talk about the story and I actually feel so like, part of the reason why I don't talk about a lot is because I feel like it, it was kind of thrown at me. And I know so many authors now, like I have so many

[00:14:46] author friends in the community. I love my author friends. And they were in the trenches and stuff. And I was just like, I was out here not even thinking that this could be a thing.

[00:14:55] So I feel like I got lucky. And that's maybe what you hear sometimes when, when you're going to hear me talk nonchalant, I feel lucky. Does that make sense? I'm like, Oh, I just feel lucky because I know how hard it is to do this.

[00:15:05] I understand where you're coming from. But having just heard the story that you told, I think I and hopefully other people who are listening will agree that you may not have been like in the writing trenches or the querying trenches or the submission trenches,

[00:15:19] perhaps. But I mean, life was still life thing. Life trenches, life trenches still count. And I will be the first to attest that one day, not during this episode. So you are signed with Jess. And you mentioned that, you know, we're now

[00:15:36] about to be four books deep. So let's talk about the publishing process. What was it like to go from your debut novel to what we now have with a love like the sun and how you've grown as a writer in being under contract and all of that.

[00:15:52] Okay, so I was not supposed to be writing a love like the sun. I was in contract and book two. And if you've heard about the sophomore slump, I was really experiencing the sophomore slump

[00:16:02] where I felt like I couldn't write another book after Deeper Providence. Like I was just like, I'm a one shot wonder, like I'm not going to read another book. So I struggled with

[00:16:09] that. And then so I was trying to write a YA book and it wasn't coming. And then I experienced, I mean, a love like the sun has some chronic illness stuff in it. So

[00:16:18] I experienced some of that. And it just honestly, the book is kind of like a love story to like myself. I needed to write it. So I just wrote it. And then I put it away because I wasn't

[00:16:28] supposed to be writing it. I had to be writing something else. So that's how a love like the sun was initially born. And I buried it for a year because I had to work on this other

[00:16:37] thing. And then I remember the next summer, me sitting down being like, what am I going to do next? And I love like the sun. I was like, Oh, I have a love like the sun there still.

[00:16:46] And I looked at it for a couple weeks and I sent it to Jess and she was like, Oh, we can definitely sell this. And I was like, Okay, great. And then yeah, so I ended up getting my contract

[00:16:55] for love like the sun. And I think I will say how I have grown as far as just craft goes alone, just like you hear me now going everywhere around everywhere. I am like that as a writer.

[00:17:06] I want to write about everything. So I want to write about like this person's life. I want to write about the neighbor. I want to write about like everything, you know, and I think

[00:17:14] with a love like the sun, I still did some of that work like to be myself. But what I did learn to do is be a little bit more concise, make sure I figure out the heart of the story because

[00:17:24] I've been generous. And I think that that is something I do so much better now. I think as far as craft goes, I've grown like that. And then the second way is that I feel like

[00:17:33] now really confident. So I know that I'm a writer now. I feel like the difference between me now and before is I can read another book. I know that part. And I think that that

[00:17:45] is like some kind of great growth. But I think it goes hand in hand with the other stuff. It's like more of a personal thing because I just never believed that I could. I like what you said

[00:17:54] about you bending genre so that a love like the sun is a cross between romance and women's fiction. And so my next question, do you find that the current genre construction is too limiting

[00:18:10] to the kinds of stories that you want to tell? Oh, yeah, 100% think it's limiting to the way that I write and I want to tell a story. You know, I have many interests like I actually

[00:18:20] have to just write the thing instead of pitching it. Does that you know what I mean? Even getting a love like the sun readers, the romance genre has like a certain has conventions

[00:18:32] and the number one convention of course is a happily ever after. I am never going to argue with that. I am a happily ever after girl. So like I am on team happily ever after but that's my only

[00:18:43] convention. You know what I mean? That's the only one that I follow that I'm like, it's a romance. It has to have a happily ever after right. But other than that,

[00:18:50] I'm kind of loose. So I think some of the things that we're noticing for a lot of the reviews that are not enjoying it that much are following like this romance, a romance should have these

[00:19:02] specific things right? If this is a trope, it should look like this or whatever the case may be. And I think because I bend genre, a lot of that time that stuff does not apply.

[00:19:10] I love like the sun has been yet so basically, they're just like small sections that are flashbacks. And some people love them and some people are like, what is this right? But it's me like speaking to my poetic side, for example. You get what I mean?

[00:19:26] That's my roundabout answer basically to say, I don't think it fits yet but I think that I can. But I can never fit exactly. I mean, I never want to fit exactly. I hope there'll be space

[00:19:37] for more space for writers like me that just bend genres because it's fun. So then knowing that you do that as a writer and that's just your style, not about being intentional or not. It's just that's the way that you write because you want to

[00:19:50] talk about so many different things and tell so many different kinds of stories. Do you find that going into the publishing industry where they're trying to fit you into this one specific genre

[00:20:02] to even just decide where the book belongs on the shelf, that you may have to advocate for yourself more or that your agent has to advocate for you and you have to kind of like stand up for the story that you're telling? Oh yeah, definitely. It's hard because

[00:20:14] there's always going to be have to be a compromise. It's like I have to give a little bit, like I have to bend a little bit for them and they have to bend a little bit for me.

[00:20:21] Like even selling a book like on proposal or contract, like I haven't had to do that yet but I think I'm gonna have to this year and I'm scared because I have that in me,

[00:20:33] that fear of failure. Like am I gonna be able to do it? You know? Like am I- Stepping the book just on the idea and not the completed manuscript.

[00:20:40] Yeah, exactly the idea because here's the thing is that one thing I do know is I can give an idea and the idea can sound like something inside the box

[00:20:51] and then when I write it, it's not going to be in the box at all. You're gonna need five boxes, right? Like I feel like it's a story of my life. It's just like with all my races and

[00:21:00] everything else, right? Like it's like the story of my life. Nothing fits in a box. I do not fit in a box. I don't fit anywhere. I'm like I don't fit anywhere so I'm a little nervous

[00:21:08] about selling on proposal because I'm like I could give you an idea but once that- once I sit down and write and once the book comes out, that's the book, right? Like it just- it kind of happens and

[00:21:19] the book is gonna end up, you know, the book is gonna be about, I don't know, stay a natural hair store and then there's gonna be like a ghost in it and you're gonna be like

[00:21:27] you did not say there was gonna be a ghost in this book and I'm gonna be like listen, the ghosts belong because if the ghosts are there, so yeah, that's it. Real talk, the ghosts show up and they just do what they do. I'm speaking from

[00:21:43] personal experience for the book that's coming out next year. The ghost showed up and then I realized the ghosts had been there all the time and I didn't know it. I didn't know it either. Another story for another day. Let's get-

[00:21:56] Yes, we're gonna have to sit down and talk about you. I'm gonna interview you on your podcast. I might hold you to that but for now let's get into A Love Like the Sun. Can you read something

[00:22:07] from this novel of yours so that we can get into the story of Linaya and Isaac? Sure. A Love Like the Sun by Rys M. Nielsen is the romantic love story between Linaya and Isaac. Friends since childhood now grown, they both want more but Linaya holds back, determined

[00:22:28] to put her family first. She has to decide if being there for them is worth the sacrifice of her heart. Here's Rys. All right, I'll read this. Isaac calls Linaya Nye so that's how it's

[00:22:43] gonna start. My heart races when he lays back on the grass. I want to be closer to him. I ache for it. I lay back without another thought. The sky is cloudless. There's nothing to concentrate on besides consciously working to slow the muscle beating behind my

[00:22:58] breastbone. Nye, look at me. Isaac's voice is jazz music and whispering wind. I tilt my head to face him. I like being like this with you, he says. I don't think I was clear enough last

[00:23:09] week in Beaver Tail that doing this with you is my favorite thing of all. We were sitting quietly under the Jamestown sky and it just felt right. I'm so busy. Things are unpredictable.

[00:23:19] My work schedule is chaotic. My whole world feels chaotic sometimes but being with you under a sky, all my stress, my fear is full away. It's just me and you and for a comforting quiet that I

[00:23:31] don't get anywhere else from anyone other than you. If my heart was beating wild before it's no longer a thing in my body. It gravitates between us, floats somewhere over our heads.

[00:23:40] He could reach up and grab it if he wanted to. My face flushes with warmth while thinking of telling him he does the same thing for me and wanted to say those words as eloquently as he

[00:23:50] just did. But then his bare arm grazes mine and the small touch feels ecstatic. He must notice too because he clears his throat and moves away, which is why we're ending this in a week, he says.

[00:24:03] All right. So this story, as you have said, covers many things. It's a love story between Linaya and Isaac, but there's also the love she has for her mother, the grief and love that she has

[00:24:17] for her late father. It's the business that she's trying to keep afloat of the natural haircare store and then also medical male practice. But the one thing you said is that this was a love

[00:24:29] letter to yourself that you were not supposed to be writing. And yet when I look at you and I envision the character, you are who I envision. Yeah. So I guess how do you feel

[00:24:45] seeing yourself reflected in your own literature? A lot of others try not to self-insert, but I just let my story take me. And a lot of the times it's going to take me places where

[00:24:58] these characters are going to have like many pieces of me in them. I feel like I can relate to all of my characters. Each of my main characters from all of my books have a little bit of me in

[00:25:07] them, but Linaya does feel because of what she's experiencing with her chronic illness, she feels specifically like me at heart. I'm always telling people she doesn't look like me, but she feels specifically like me. And I think people say they don't want to self-insert,

[00:25:24] but it's hard to not do that for me. I just write what I'm feeling at the time or write what I'm thinking or write what I'm interested in. And at the time that I was writing

[00:25:35] this novel, I did not know it was going to be anything and I didn't know it was going to be published. I was writing, it felt almost like a diary experience. Like I had to write Linaya.

[00:25:44] I had to write about this woman because just transparency here. I have chronic kidney disease and I'm young. I'm 35 and I found out when I was young and it's, it changed my life a lot. And one of

[00:26:00] the big things that happened was it changed my view on like love and dating for a long time. I'm getting to a good place with it, but I think for a long time it changed my

[00:26:11] view on love and dating. So when I was writing this book for Linaya, I was being dreamy about a character that experiences something that I experienced and still gets to have that full love,

[00:26:24] somebody that loves her unconditionally no matter what's going to happen in the future. She might need a kidney transplant in the future. She might, God forbid, pass away young. We don't know what's

[00:26:34] going to happen to Linaya in the future, but the point is that he loves her so much that he's just like one day at a time, like I'm here. And I think, so for me this one

[00:26:45] was very personal. Like it's very personal to me. I'm like, Linaya gets this thing that I was like, you know, I hope that one day I can still have in the future and I've struggled with that. That's

[00:26:55] very personal, but I've struggled with that just, just even going into dating, right? And being like, do you tell people right away? When do you tell someone? Right? So I think it's interesting because I'm reading Linaya now, we feel distinct and different now because I have

[00:27:13] I'm years removed and I think my mindset is a little different. And Linaya had fears in this novel that she overcame with Isaac, but I have fears that I have overcame by myself. So I see myself,

[00:27:27] but I see like a version of myself maybe that could have been, but that we're not exactly alike. So you say Linaya did it with Isaac, but did Riss also do it with Isaac?

[00:27:38] In overcoming those fears, like in giving Linaya that love, you allowed yourself to write until you truly believe that you could have the happily ever after that you give the character. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Like I definitely think Isaac did it with me too. It felt so

[00:27:57] healing, you know, it felt so healing to write this book. I will never forget. I was in my worst ever. I just had found out about my kidney disease months before that. I was in the biggest

[00:28:09] probably depression that I've ever felt in my life. Everything was uncertain. And then it felt like these characters came in and held my hand. It sounds so corny. I don't know, it feels there's something about being a writer too that these characters feel so real. I can

[00:28:24] sit down with them. I can talk to them. They can tell me like everything's gonna be okay. And these characters for me, I don't know if I'm ever gonna write a book

[00:28:33] that feels so real to me. I'm like, no, they exist. This story happened. Like they're in love still, like somewhere celebrating in love still being silly under the sun. Like this is them. And

[00:28:46] probably because of that, I'm not out here dating insanely. I'm still gonna have high standards even though I have a chronic illness. Like I'm not gonna just be like, anyone, you know? I want an Isaac. We all want an Isaac.

[00:29:01] I was reading the book. I was like, where is this man? But in talking about the chronic illness portion, and it's in the novel from the beginning, then just also the medical malpractice and mistreatment of Black Indigenous and people of

[00:29:18] color within healthcare institutions, you breadcrumb the illness from the beginning so that by the time I got to the end and it's like, it's kidney disease and she might need a transplant and all

[00:29:35] these things. I'm like, WTS! Where did this come from? And then, yes. And then like, but reading the author's note where you talk about being gaslit by doctors who were reading these charts and not telling you the truth and like literally playing with your life. Like they're

[00:29:55] literally playing in your face and playing with your life while they're doing it. And then you do that to the reader, why was that important for you to give us that same experience of gaslight? I was like, what the?

[00:30:11] I know. She went from headaches to kidney disease and I don't see the connection. Part of it is me writing a diary, right? That's literally how it happened to me. I felt gaslit. I was like, what? I went from headaches to kidney disease and pretty much

[00:30:26] overnight. It was crazy. And like Linaya, I found out on my own. So that part of the journey is definitely like, mirror's mind, like almost to a T. It's almost exactly how

[00:30:39] it happened with me. So when I was writing it, it came out that way. And then when I sent it off, they wanted to keep it. But not just that. I could have edited it differently. But I just thought

[00:30:49] like, this is the impact and this is the real thing that happens. You know, this really happens. Like, I mean, I know so many. Obviously there are a ton of stories, but I

[00:30:58] just know like, I have a first one I want to really start to talk about in rest in peace. But there's somebody that we know that was gaslit and gaslit to the point where she ended up in the

[00:31:08] hospital and she died in the hospital. And then they found out what was wrong with her, you know? So like this stuff happens, you know, it happens a lot. And especially to Black women,

[00:31:17] right? So like I think it was important to me to really, even though I knew my readers were going to be like, what the fuck, I didn't want to sugarcoat or like change the way that

[00:31:29] this can happen. This really serious thing. Actually, one of the best things that I received, like one of the best gifts I received when this book first came out was a bookseller read it, and then she messaged me and she was like crying because she was like, this

[00:31:44] is almost exactly how it happened to me. It wasn't kidney disease for her, but it was a different disease. And she's like, this is exactly what happened to me. And hers was even closer because she pushed away the man that she loved because of it. They ended

[00:31:58] up back together and it worked out for them. And she's like, this book feels like I picked it up and I was like, how does someone have my story? Like, you know, and I feel and that felt like a

[00:32:08] gift. I feel like it was the right thing to do because to showcase something like this, which I know I'm not alone in this experience. There's some solace in knowing that like people have experienced something like this, but it's also tragic, you know,

[00:32:21] but there's this, this a little bit of peace where you're like, Oh, I'm not the only one. Yeah. What I noticed about the book is that the love story, yes, it's in the foreground,

[00:32:36] but to me it's also in the background because I feel like the central part of the story is really Linaya coming to love herself, but then also like really trying to

[00:32:45] help her family and make sure that she and her mom are all right after the loss of her father. And so in telling that story, I'm reminded of what the writer and other and fellow

[00:32:57] podcaster Dmitri L. Lucas always says about her time editing romance novels is that you know, in a white romance novel, it's like the happily ever after plus the billionaire in all of these like extra extraordinary things. But like in black romance, it's really like

[00:33:14] real basic wants like just a good man that loves you who has a job and your family is okay. And I see that really in your novel that it's like, you just want a good guy and your family to be

[00:33:28] okay. And if y'all got a little money, great. And if you don't have a lot of money, that's okay too. We're going to make it work. We're gonna make it work. And like fortunately for Linaya and Isaac,

[00:33:40] they're on the come up. Money is not going to be an issue in the future. Right, right. Like they money gonna be all right. But even if it wasn't, I feel like their love story

[00:33:50] would still be the same. Why was it important for you to invest in just telling the story of this family from Rhode Island that's struggling? And yes, they get their big break, but that doesn't make really make them or break them. It's the love that makes them or

[00:34:06] breaks them. Yeah. This one's hard. I don't know, I feel like some of the stuff just comes kind of natural. It comes from like my life and my family and like just thinking about

[00:34:18] what would it be like if we had a store, if we had open a store? First of all, that would be a dream because none of my family owned businesses yet knock on wood yet, right?

[00:34:30] But I think at the end of the day, it would be like the love and it would be like the family ties. Like we're so close and we love each other so much. And I think it would be that.

[00:34:42] And when I'm thinking about it, I'm going to be honest with you. I don't know that it was important to me instead of just natural for me. And that might sound like a that's not a good enough answer, but it really is like just the truth.

[00:34:56] Like when I was writing it, it felt like this is important. Right? Like this family that is trying to do anything like this mom that has a dream and she's trying to do anything she can to make

[00:35:07] that dream work. Right? Some of Vanessa, Vanessa is Linai's mom for the listeners. But Vanessa's story, I used to make natural products at home and stuff. And I feel like at that time

[00:35:19] and like I said, I have done everything I could to keep my family together, make sure we were like not like, you know, we, we'd never had a lot of money even like in my household with

[00:35:29] my kids. We didn't have a lot of money at first. So I think I did everything I could, but I was still trying to follow like my interests and my dreams. I was working part-time as a CNA and I

[00:35:39] was making money by making natural hair products, by sewing purses at home. I was always trying to do something creative. I still do that by crocheting. Like I love crocheting. Like

[00:35:49] I still like make clothes and I was selling, I was just trying to be creative. Like I knew I had to be creative. So something about like Vanessa's story, I wanted to showcase like this

[00:35:57] feeling of like, I want to do everything I can to make this work, but I still want to like be me and like do it creatively. In addition to like focusing on the family and making the love story,

[00:36:13] the bonus to just having a stable life as a family of color in the United States, you also shed light on, you know, the class disparities where Linaya is working as a domestic

[00:36:27] or cleaning person at a hotel. And, you know, while trying to help her family business work, Linaya does also, we come to learn, is diagnosed with a chronic illness. And so a lot of love

[00:36:42] stories don't show people who aren't middle class. They don't show like working class people or impoverished people. They don't show people who are disabled and battling illness and sickness and viruses and things. And so you're writing this story and surfacing all of that and this beautiful

[00:37:00] love story between these two people and yet making other communities, including yourself, feel seen. Was all of that intentional or was that just the life that you knew? So that's what you put

[00:37:10] on the page. I feel like it's a second one. And I wish I could give credit to myself and say it's the first one. I wish I could be like, oh yeah, I am that skilled, you know,

[00:37:22] like that I was able to do that. But honestly, I'm always just going to write like just pockets of me everywhere. And that is exactly like as I envision it but also like as it has happened

[00:37:33] in my life in different ways, right? And seen in different ways. So I think on the, it just came out. It just came out on the page. I was like, well, this is how exactly how it

[00:37:40] would be. I think I would really have to like sit down with something and say, this is going to be extremely different from the way I live. And I think I have to be very intentional on doing that.

[00:37:53] So I think anything that people read from me, I hope they can look at me and be like, I like to read her stuff because I can relate to it, you know, she I know she can relate,

[00:38:00] right? Like besides Isaac actually having money, that part does not exist. But even the Isaac part, like he even him growing up in foster care and then coming to where he is like creatively

[00:38:14] and stuff. Even that has been part of what I've seen, what I know people I love in my life, you know what I'm saying? It has been their story. It might not look like Isaac is not

[00:38:24] famous, you know what I'm saying? But but yeah, so. So I'm going to give you the credit back that you don't want that you are that talented in that even though it is you're pulling from

[00:38:36] experience, you could have easily chosen to not write about your experience and chosen the route of escapism because you didn't want to look at your reality on the page. So I'm going to

[00:38:48] say that it does take talent to face those experiences and put them out and render them for people who have them and make them make those people in those communities feel seen

[00:38:59] as well as doing it for people who don't have those same experiences but can come to the work and see like, oh, these stories are worthy too. So I'm going to give you all of that back.

[00:39:10] Thank you. You're very welcome. So I want to play do a speed round in the game before I let you go for the afternoon. What is your favorite book? Pachinko is probably my favorite book,

[00:39:22] which is probably telling for me like as a writer that is going to be like, okay, that's literary fiction. That's probably my favorite book of all time, I think. Who was your favorite author? Kennedy Ryan is probably like in my top three, right? Like she's

[00:39:35] up there. Kennedy Ryan is an autobiography for me. Like this could be us like touched my heart and I was sobbing in the first the opening the prologue I was sobbing, you know. So like

[00:39:45] it's that kind of thing. What is your favorite TV show? The hundred used to be my favorite TV show ever then season seven happened and it messed it up. What was your favorite poet? Ocean. Ocean

[00:39:57] Wong. What do you think is the best book to movie or TV show adaptation? I'm going to say catching fire. I'm going to say like one of the Hunger Games series other just the Hunger Games are so

[00:40:07] close to the books like not not exactly close, but they are the best depiction I think in my personal opinion of the books because this is that's a very hard one. I feel like I always read books first and I'm always disappointed. I'm always disappointed by the

[00:40:21] movies and I think those movies can rival the books like it you know I'm like I don't even know which one I like better you know the books of the movies so I'm going to say catching fire

[00:40:30] for that one. If money were no object where would you go? What would you do and where would you live? If money was no object I would want to go to Greece. I want to experience the

[00:40:41] water there one just once. If um flight anxiety wasn't an issue I would probably live in the Philippines maybe um and what would I do? What would I do? I would could this be a hobby?

[00:41:00] Because for a job I'm gonna answer my job okay like I'm gonna answer my job. I love being an author. Name three things on your bucket list. I want to go on a cruise because I'm kind of

[00:41:12] terrified to go on a cruise so that's on my bucket list I'm supposed to be going next year. I know that's dumb because I'm on the water but something about being on the water it's the night time it's

[00:41:20] that you know it's not dumb. I want to and this one this one has been on my bucket list forever I hike um so I want to see Yosemite National Park and I'm going to Steamy Lit yay in the summer

[00:41:34] and we're doing a big cross-country road trip home and we're gonna visit Yosemite. It's like in the books like I already booked the Yosemite Reservation so I want to see that National Park

[00:41:45] and so I'm gonna I'm gonna knock that one off this year and I'm really really excited about it. So that and then um my bucket list just trying to conquer fears that's my bucket list.

[00:41:57] I'm really scared of heights so I want to be able to do like either I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this I want to be able to I'm going to say

[00:42:07] ziplining because what I really want to do is jump out of a plane but yeah. What brings you joy? I'm gonna be a mom here and say my kids I love them so much like literally

[00:42:22] like my little besties they're big now that so they're my besties so they bring me joy headaches too headaches because they're teenagers you know what I'm saying so they bring me a lot of joy and also stupid stuff gel pens like I'm in love with gel pens

[00:42:36] like you'll see me like a freak like I'm everybody's like oh all you got is I know it's dumb gel pens dumb stuff like that like colors the sun flowers everything everything I don't know I feel like

[00:42:49] I can find joy in pretty much anything um some good food I have a bunny we have a bunny at home his name is Michael Myers we like horror in this house he brings me a lot of joy I just

[00:43:00] see him and I'm like oh it's like instant serotonin and I love being outside I am definitely a sun child I'm just like it's starting to get nice out and I'm like yes thank thank goodness like I could be

[00:43:13] outside um so so those things and reading of course because I can't forget reading on this podcast it's cool what brings you peace I'm gonna say God because I am I am a godfair woman

[00:43:29] so God definitely like talking to God definitely brings me peace and then um what else brings me peace God and Xanax know I'm playing look at me on the podcast I'm just playing I'm just playing but probably

[00:43:48] playing video games strangely like it just I mean unless I'm playing something crazy like hell diapers or something where it's just like non-stop attack it's just like so peaceful so so yeah that's my answer all right so our game is called rewriting the classics classic

[00:44:04] is however you define it name one book you wish you would have written Malibu rising like I read it and I'm like the craft you know what I'm saying so I'm like I wish I wish I wrote that one day

[00:44:15] I'll write something that can rival it maybe maybe we'll see name one book where you want to change the ending and how would you do it oof you you just be rough out here because my

[00:44:26] all the friends are on here you know what I'm saying maybe they're on here but um one of the things that I wish I could change was um so divine rivals it's a fantasy series and divine rival is probably

[00:44:39] like one of the best books I've ever read ever like it's it's really like it it's just like I don't know how to describe it when you read a book and you're just like I wouldn't change a

[00:44:50] thing about this book that's the first book in the series and then the second book in the series um the ending like I'm not going to give spoilers but the ending the person that dies in

[00:45:04] the end I I felt like didn't have to die you know I feel like some I feel like some books call for that death like I think they call for that death they call for the heartbreak and as somebody

[00:45:17] that does not shy away from death and heartbreak in their novels um I feel like I I hate to say this because it's the author that is but I'm always but I'm always like why why was the death

[00:45:28] like I I want one day to be able to sit and be like you know like I don't know so I think I would change that I would think I would I don't like not kill that person because I really think it

[00:45:38] changed that it changed the book almost you know when something changes a book yeah and then name a book that you think is overrated or overtaught and why oh classics um bae wolf

[00:45:58] oh bae wolf that's like so much I guess the why is that um I just don't see it's like one of those things again where I don't see the reason it's still being taught I feel you all right so our

[00:46:09] final question for the day when you are dead and gone and among the ancestors what would you like someone to write about the legacy of words and work that you left behind I would love somebody to

[00:46:21] write that like something in my story made them I don't know brought them joy or like um some kind of sunshine or I don't know and then and then the other part is I would like them to say wow

[00:46:42] she really just be writing about anything because why the hell is this in here like it has to be something really stupid and silly like I want I want my ending to be like one of those like she just

[00:46:55] used to be writing about whatever and then also hopefully let's say that they would be like deep have you read her collection because you probably can't because there's a book in every single category because I'm gonna write everything I'm gonna write mg I'm gonna write

[00:47:09] like I have plans for everything so so yeah those things thank you riss you're welcome thank you this is this is so much fun big thank you to riss m neilson for being here today on black and published

[00:47:24] make sure you check out riss's latest novel a love like the sun out now from berkeley and if you're not following riss check her out on the socials she's at riss m neilson

[00:47:36] on instagram and twitter that's our show for the week if you like this episode and want more black and published head to our instagram page it's at black and published and that's be okay

[00:47:52] and published there i've posted a bonus clip for my interview with riss about how she defends her genre bending books to her publishers marketing and publicity team make sure you check it out

[00:48:03] let me know what you think in the comments i'll highlight y'all next week when our guests will be tomei adayemi author of children of anguish and anarchy the final chapter in the legacy of orisha

[00:48:15] trilogy a big reason i wrote children of button bone was because i was feeling so much emotional PTSD and i didn't feel like anyone was discussing it i was born with a fear of my mortality and

[00:48:29] then that was exacerbated and i would say a lot of people look at my life and they're like you're so young you but you so much and i was like well i wasn't i i didn't know how long i had that's

[00:48:41] next week on black and published i'll talk to you then peace