Leading with Meaning with Laysha Ward

[00:00:00] At the end of the day, I am competitive. I'm ambitious. I wanted to be in the rooms where it happened. I could be a good follower when required and am, but I was very clear I also wanted to be a leader. What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams and this is Black & Published on the Mahogany Books Podcast Network, bringing you the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights, and storytellers of all kinds.

[00:00:24] Today's guest is Laysha Ward, author of the leadership book, Lead Like You Mean It, Lessons on Integrity and Purpose from the C-Suite. A book that is as much about charting a fruitful course in corporate America as it is a reminder that all fruit is not worth the labor, especially if it's divorced from rest.

[00:00:44] Success meant you were crushing it at work, you were getting that promotion. Even if you were dog tired, mentally exhausted, physically exhausted, lost all your friendships, mentally, spiritually, you were struggling and financially broke.

[00:01:01] And what I'm talking about is having a foundation in well-being allows you to live a full life, personally and professionally. Self-care isn't selfish, it's essential. Laysha spent more than 30 years in corporate America, most of that time at Target. Yes, that Target. Our conversation took place before Target announced their rollback of DEI initiatives.

[00:01:31] Though Laysha's hire at the company and ascendancy to executive vice president and chief external engagement officer predates the performative mass implementation of DEI initiatives by many corporations, including Target, in the summer and fall of 2020. With that said, Laysha discusses how her background as a black girl from rural Indiana helped her find gold in her roots to unlock her superpowers.

[00:01:58] Plus, why she believes it's important to have a holistic approach to leadership and well-being. And the lessons she learned from Mrs. Coretta Scott King that helped her successfully navigate her professional and personal life. Laysha breaks the barrier on what it means to achieve balance next, when Black & Published continues.

[00:02:28] Why this book and why now? I was compelled to write Lead Like You, Mina, to really help me be of service at scale, to help more people live a life that I would call well-lived. Our lives and our careers, I think, are often competing, and I don't think they should compete. And I want to reframe that conversation so that we can really think about what does it mean to have a successful life and career?

[00:02:59] And quite frankly, I think I also wrote this book to help readers just be grounded in their purpose, right? To live this truly connected life, to lead with meaning. And I think the world, especially right now, needs passionate, purpose-driven leaders who operate with integrity. In a way, it seems like it'd be, you know, integrity is out of vogue. It's not. This holistic work that I'm providing really allows us to think about purpose, integrity and humanity.

[00:03:27] And it provides advice on self-work, on leadership skills, on uplifting others, and wellbeing. It's trying to have impact, right? And, girl, most of us don't get sucked into a dead-end job. We want a life that's filled with purpose. And we want to leave behind, I think, a meaningful legacy and impact. And we can do those things even in divisive times.

[00:03:54] And I would actually argue even more so in divisive times. Because this is a moment where the world needs us to step passionately into our purpose and into a moment where we are absolutely needed the most. So I have two questions piggybacking off of that answer. My first is you said early on that you wrote this book as an act of service.

[00:04:19] And you talk about in Lead Like You Mean It, how much service and being of service is a part of your purpose. And that you even encourage people who read your book to write their statement of purpose, to figure out what their components are, much as you've done for yourself.

[00:04:37] And these divisive times, as you said, as we're under a new administration, and I'm sure many people want to put their heads under a rock for the next four years or maybe move to Bali for the next four years and not be involved in the political theater that America is right now.

[00:04:58] How do you suggest people maintain hope when they are in purpose work and it seems that that work is of no consequence? Being grounded in your purpose is an important step in finding meaning and hope and making a way out of what may seem like no way. And I think our personal purpose is a lantern, right?

[00:05:24] It's a measuring stick that allows us to define our why. What is the impact that we want to make? What are the steps that will be required for us to make that impact? Who are the partners, the relationships that will be in community with us to ensure that we're able to take those steps forward and even withstand the failures and the setbacks that will be in the way. And that will occur as well.

[00:05:51] Like who is that kitchen cabinet, that community will help you take that step and the next step and the next step. And we'll lift you when you fall. And what again, Mrs. King, Mrs. Coretta Scott King told me, what are you called to do? Mm hmm. And does it mean that it's always going to be an easy path, a clear path? No, actually, I think when you're leading like you mean it, the path is often not as clear as you'd like.

[00:06:17] And this idea of getting comfortable being uncomfortable is a part of doing the work often, right? So don't lose hope. We cannot give up. We cannot give in. And when you're leading like you mean it, service is a component of how you lead. You're making intentional choices, right? You're leading with humanity and empathy.

[00:06:40] And you are making sure that you're leaving things better off than you found them, that you're giving more than you take, but that you are in no way giving up on what is important and valuable to you. You're unapologetically you. You are the CEO of your life and career. You design your life. You make the calls. People can have a voice. And that's what the relationships in your life will do.

[00:07:08] Your kitchen cabinet will do. But you get to make the final call. And I think that power does give you hope and purpose and courage to do what is required in these moments where you may feel at times under assault. But I would tell you, out of crisis often comes opportunity. Where is there opportunity in moments like this for you to shine, for you to step into what the moment requires?

[00:07:38] Now, doing that does still require rest. Let's not get things, you know, twisted. We really have to make sure that we are thinking about our physical well-being, our mental well-being, our spiritual well-being, the community that is a part of our well-being that's often called social well-being, and our financial well-being. Something I talk quite a bit about in Lead Like You Mean It 2.

[00:08:02] How are you betting on you so that you are positioned to take care of yourself? Because if leaders aren't able to take care of themselves and aren't investing in their own personal and professional development, they are not in a position to be as strong a leader and help others do the same. I'm glad you went there. And so on page 17, you talk about, you know, taking care of yourself and making sure that there is a barrier between your work self and your personal self.

[00:08:31] And that piggybacks off of your introduction where you say this is not a book on work-life balance. Why was it important for you to put that up front in a book about leadership and designing your life and pursuing purpose for you to make sure that taking care of yourself is reflective of not only what you do, but where you are in your life and what you require to continue on?

[00:08:57] I think in professional development and or in personal development, they're often seen as very separate things. What I'm talking about in Lead Like You Mean It is to take the wall down between the two. Your well-being is foundational to your success in life, personally and professionally, in our professional worlds. It was success meant you were crushing it at work. You were getting that promotion.

[00:09:23] Even if you were dog tired, mentally exhausted, physically exhausted, lost all your friendships, right? Mentally, spiritually, you were struggling and financially broke. And what I'm talking about is having a foundation in well-being allows you to, over time, live a full life, personally and professionally.

[00:09:51] Self-care isn't selfish. It's essential. Before you can lead others, you have to first do the work on yourself. And I think when the folks that you are interacting with, whether you're leading them in your personal or personal realm, see you investing in yourself, it gives them permission to do the same. And they are strengthened, I think, as a result of that. And it's something you can't just do once.

[00:10:18] How are you training and building that muscle around well-being so that you come back to it again and again? And that you've even identified steps that are important for your personal well-being, right? Is that taking walks? Is that, for some, it's going to the gym or yoga? For some, it may be seeing a therapist or prayer.

[00:10:43] Others may say, gosh, what's important for me is to be out with my friends, right? That gives me a sense of community when I can bring laughter and humor and, you know, a sense of kind of common purpose and joy through my interactions with my friends. And for others, it may mean, gosh, I'm not worried about living paycheck to paycheck anymore because I've put a plan together.

[00:11:08] And the stress that I was feeling around my financial security is at least better than it was because as a part of my overall well-being, I've thought about that. I've put some intention around those choices as well. And that centers me. So I cannot express enough how important it is to think about holistic well-being, health and well-being. Without our health and well-being, the rest of it doesn't matter.

[00:11:36] It can't be something, oh, I'm going to get to that in my 30s or 40s or 50s or when I retire. We don't do that right away, particularly for black and brown folks who are disproportionately, I think, impacted by various health and well-being issues. And we won't have the ability to have the second act, the third act of our lives.

[00:11:58] And to be able to do that, as my grandmother would say, in our right mind and with our faculties and the ability to live and love fully in the next seasons of our life. So you've had a long corporate career starting at Marshall Fields in Chicago and then going on to Target and moving all the way up the corporate ladder. How have you personally made sure to take care of yourself as you continue to climb and keeping your own personal statement of purpose in mind?

[00:12:28] I think it's been difficult at times to make sure that I was staying centered on my purpose. I'm human. I'm not perfect. I'm still a work in progress, right? I have always known that my purpose was to be of service. I have always wanted to be of service, to leave things better off than I'd found them.

[00:12:45] And as my purpose evolved, I knew that I, in particular, wanted to be of service to women, people of color, underrepresented communities, especially the black community that I am so proudly a part of. But being of service more broadly was something that was always important to me, what I felt called to do.

[00:13:07] And if I'm being candid, I never thought that my purpose or calling would or could be served in a corporate environment. I actually thought that I would work either in the nonprofit sector or in the government. And after I graduated from Indiana University, I moved to Chicago, was living with a friend, sleeping in the walk-in closet, waiting on what I thought would be a Peace Corps assignment.

[00:13:33] I thought I would go abroad, be of service, learn about the world in a sort of global context, different from the rural environment in which I'd been raised, and take those learnings and come back and apply them here in the United States.

[00:13:50] Perhaps doing foreign affairs work or public affairs work, but in a nonprofit environment or in the government, a service culture that was being of service to its guests, which is what the company called its customer, to be of service to its team, which is what the company called the employees, to be of service to the community, the communities in which it operated, and to be of service to other stakeholders like its shareholders or other partners.

[00:14:18] But this was a foreign concept to me. I'm the first in my family to get into and through college, didn't have any exposure to the business environment or those who had worked in business. And so to come in and see that there are companies who had corporate responsibility, was a part of their ethos, who thought about doing well while doing good, was something that threw me, if I'm being candid.

[00:14:48] Because I was like, come on now, like, I don't believe it. Right? I needed to see it, to believe it, to touch it, to believe it. And when I got in there as a frontline team member, right? I was making seven bucks an hour, doing the hustle, working all the shifts, doing all the things, learning about business and the retail business at a very grassroots level.

[00:15:09] I got to experience the culture of the organization, the purpose of the organization in a way that, as I like to say, not just on the walls where you've got slogans and sayings, but in the halls, right? Like, how did it get expressed in the daily behaviors and policies and interactions I had as an hourly employee? And was it perfect? No, nobody's perfect. No organization is perfect.

[00:15:36] But I felt this commitment to trying to do the right thing and to empower folks like me to make the organization better. And so what I would say to you, it was a lesson for me around purpose and where one's purpose can be fulfilled. And that's what took me from Chicago to Minneapolis, right?

[00:16:00] Somebody who was a mentor and a sponsor for me, Mike Heider, who I talk about in the book, who I think helped me see that even though there weren't a lot of people who look like me in corporate America, that I was talented. I had the skills and the capabilities. I was curious. I was a natural lifelong learner and that I could do it, right?

[00:16:23] And so he certainly was one of those early supporters who helped me believe that I could do it. And then later when I moved to Minneapolis and was still kind of questioning, is corporate America really for me? I'm not so sure. Mrs. Coretta Scott King once again came in and reminded me that corporate America, as she put it, was my lunch counter.

[00:16:46] And when she said corporate America is my lunch counter, it was a metaphor for it being aligned with my purpose. It was a place where I was uniquely suited to be because there were very few people who look like me, women of color in corporate America. I want to go to what you were talking about with Mrs. King and some of the advice that she gave you about, you know, being in the corporate world is your lunch counter.

[00:17:15] But then on page 112, you say everything isn't a lunch counter. And when I read that, I was like, but, you know, for Black women, appearance often is. And I think you were talking about, you know, wearing braids and wearing your hair natural and being more kind to who you are aesthetically in these corporate spaces. And so my question for you simply is everything isn't a lunch counter, though for Black women, appearance often is. But should it be?

[00:17:42] We cannot tackle everything or be all things to all people. We have to be able to say a strategic yes and a strategic no. We get to choose the things that we want to be engaged in, where we want to lead, where we want to step back and let others take the lead, where we want to be relative to our own rest and recovery and rejuvenation journey.

[00:18:11] We don't have to be the one taking the hill all of the time for all things. I mean, so often I think women, to your point, Black women have felt compelled to be the savior. We are not superhuman. We are human. And I would just encourage us to lay down that burden of having to sort of carry the ball and the weight the world. I would tell you it's in all spaces.

[00:18:40] People may have a voice, but we should have the final vote in how we show up and our skills, our contributions, our receipts. Right? The results that we provide should be the measure of our success and worth, not someone's so-called definition of acceptable appearance.

[00:19:05] And too often, appearance has won the day over our capabilities and our competency. And so many years ago, as I write about in the book, but I would argue it still happens today, I was a part of a conversation about my hair. At the time, which is probably back in 2015, had been wearing for many years, what I'd call a traditional corporate do. You know, think short Angela Bessa, old school Halle Berry, which I thought was very fly.

[00:19:33] And I loved rocking that short corporate do. But when I would go on vacations, I got braids, mainly for convenience, right? Like I didn't want to have to deal with my hair in those moments.

[00:19:47] And I happened to go on trip and I'd gotten the braids, but I didn't have time, as is often the case, to get into the salon to get the braids out and get my corporate style together before I went back into the office. And so I was going to do it the following day. So I went into the office with my braids and was quite shocked, quite frankly, at the response that I was getting from people when they saw me in my braids.

[00:20:16] It was people running up, trying to see, like they'd heard, they wanted to take a picture. They, you know, it was a thing because they were surprised, quite frankly, that a senior leader, a C-suite leader who reported to the CEO at that time was in with a natural hairstyle. And I did not do it to make a statement. And yet I realized that it was becoming a statement.

[00:20:43] And the idea that some folks were asking me, not only inside of the company, but outside, are you leaving the company? If you're not, aren't you concerned about how it's going to be perceived? Are you nervous that it may get in the way of your ability to do the work? Some folks were like, you're going to get fired? Or did you get fired? And it did then for me, cause me to really think more intentionally about how I wanted to show up.

[00:21:13] And I landed ultimately in a place where I chose to keep the braids. They were well-received at Target by my boss and fears and board. I did not have any issue or challenge in that regard. But I was ready in case there was. And so what I'm saying to the community, who I hope will benefit from the lessons learned in this book, we just have to be prepared. Be prepared.

[00:21:42] Do the work. Understand what your risk appetite is. I talk a bit in the book about a risk appetite, something we often discuss in a business context. What's your risk appetite for business? But I'm reframing that as well in this book. What is your risk appetite also personally? And how does that connect to your purpose? That helps you think about the choices that you're going to make. And those choices may look different at different stages of your life and career. So I felt good about the choice that I'd made.

[00:22:10] I was ready, I thought, for the consequences. My husband and I, we had decided that this is the move that we were going to make. No regrets. And I have not looked back. And that was what 2015, it's 2025. I'm still rocking the braids. And what I loved is that it created a pathway for others to feel like they could be more of their authentic self.

[00:22:34] The number of men and women who said it gave them courage, not just Black men and women, but that just gave them courage to be authentically themselves in whatever way, that was a wonderful outcome and a component of being of service, a part of my purpose that I feel really good about. You chose to live authentically with something as simple, yes, but also very still controversial,

[00:23:01] considering we now have to have legislation to allow people to wear the crown up, to wear them naturally. What freedom have you found in living authentically? Ultimately, authenticity is connected to freedom. We can be who we are meant to be. And that is a difficult thing to do when people often want us to be a version of who they'd like us to be, who perhaps they're more comfortable with us being.

[00:23:31] And so for me, I have over time tried to be authentically me, authentically an amalgamation of all the things that make me who I am. And that at times can feel like a contradiction to people, right? Like I am a Black woman who's from rural Indiana, from a very small town of 700 people. I grew up with a soybean field on one side of my house and a corn field on the other.

[00:23:58] It was very important so that we understood, you know, from a cultural context, the importance of Black people, Black culture, so that we would be comfortable, as comfortable as possible on our own skin, knowing that we were the only or another. And I think that has certainly helped me tremendously in my road towards authenticity and freedom and feeling more comfortable in my own skin, which was difficult growing up when you are the only one

[00:24:28] or one of a few, right? But at the end of the day, that upbringing prepared me for a life and leadership journey, particularly in corporate America, where I was still often the first one, the only one, or one of a few. And it turns out that it became one of my superpowers, right? My ability to connect with people from varying backgrounds, different perspectives, different experiences,

[00:24:55] different races, religions, started from that rural upbringing and those situations. And by the time I then was put into those environments in a corporate context, I'm like, this is not new for me. I'm like, I know what to do in these spaces. I know how to operate in a way that can allow me to be

[00:25:19] an effective leader that can allow me to really listen to and connect with and have impact with people of varied backgrounds and perspectives. It allowed me over time to feel like I belonged there, that I was worthy of being in all of those spaces. And at times when I felt pushed back and didn't always

[00:25:43] feel welcome, that I could push through that and still get to a place where I could lead and lead with meaning in those environments. At the end of the day, I am competitive. I'm ambitious. I've wanted to ensure that I could have a big scope of work and leadership and have impact in very meaningful ways. I wanted to be in the rooms where it happened. I could be a good follower when required

[00:26:09] and am, but I was very clear. I also wanted to be a leader, right? And at times that can be perceived differently, particularly I think for women. But I would also say that as I talk about leading with meaning, I have been both humble and confident. These things can coexist. The right level of humility and confidence has allowed me, I think, to lead with meaning.

[00:26:35] So I think that's a great place to have you read something from the book and then we can continue our conversation. Absolutely. Lead Like You Mean It by Laysha Ward is a book about purpose. Whether your purpose takes you to corporate America or a college campus, the Peace Corps or a nonprofit, Laysha wants all readers to know that purpose begins with service. Here's Laysha.

[00:26:59] I will begin reading the introduction. In the summer of 2002, I was asked to be one of the speakers at Target's national sales meeting as a last-minute replacement for my boss who had a conflict. I had very little public speaking experience at the time and was way outside my comfort zone. Okay, I was terrified, yet I was also very excited to be asked to step up. The invitation was an incredible honor.

[00:27:29] And it was a major opportunity to talk to the Target team and our partners about our meaningful work. I'd come a long way from the young woman who started her career with the company on the sales floor at Marshall Fields in Chicago. I was now a director overseeing all of Target's community relations and the Target Foundation. My job involved bringing business and communities together and ensuring that

[00:27:54] Target had a positive impact on the communities we were in. It was work I cherished and I was excited to spread the word. Yet here I was being asked to speak alongside our senior-most leaders in front of 10,000 of my fellow team members and our partners. Knowing I'd need to project the kind of energy necessary to address the corporate equivalent of a sold-out concert was intimidating. To top it off, as one of the very few

[00:28:23] people of color in mid-management, I felt an added burden to represent all people of color. The invite had plunged me deep into the throes of imposter syndrome. Who was I to offer my thoughts to such an experienced group? I wanted a career with meaning, one where I created real impact and led change. However, my fear and anxiety weren't telegraphing that this was the opportunity to do just that. They were telling me

[00:28:53] I was in over my head. Thankfully, I had a mentor in no other than Mrs. Coretta Scott King. I'd met Mrs. King the year before during a collaboration between Target and the King Center. And after the successful completion of the project, she graciously agreed to be one of my advisors. Beyond her stature as the wife and legacy holder of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream,

[00:29:20] she had dreams of her own and I valued the wisdom that she generously shared with me. I even appreciated her challenges, such as the times when she would firmly put me in check with a stern look saying, now, Miss Ward. Mrs. King accepted my invitation to speak as a guest during my presentation at the meeting. And as we stood together backstage, I could have put on a brave

[00:29:46] face for her and Lord knows I wanted to. Instead, I confessed, I've never spoken in front of this many people. I'm afraid. This woman of extraordinary courage, wisdom and grace laid her hand on my arm, looked me in the eye and said, Leisha, you have earned the right to be here. Do what you have to do.

[00:30:12] Do what you have been called to do. It was just the reminder I needed to stand confidently and bring my voice to the work I was so passionate about and so honored to share. As I stood on the stage in my good for luck power suit, Mrs. King's affirmations gave me the strength I needed to claim the opportunity I was ready for. They gave me the strength to remember my purpose, that I was blessed to have

[00:30:40] work through which I could share my gifts and create opportunities for so many others, that I was blessed to be able to lead with meaning. Thank you. So I want to go kind of to what you were talking about before when we were talking about freedom and living authentically and how that can be sometimes a

[00:31:03] challenge for black women in corporate spaces because of how we come off. And you say in chapter six, or you're discussing the harms of letting young girls who are bright, bossy and talk too much in that translates into feedback of being too direct, guarded or oversharing. How do you suggest that

[00:31:26] all those characteristics which we're chastised for as children and then possibly chastised for as adults in corporate spaces are really assets? And how did you cultivate those assets to be what you said, both humble yet confident in your ambition? I've tried to stay centered in making sure that people

[00:31:51] understand one another. So this ability to be able to share our stories, share more about who we are, share our purpose, share our values, share more about where we've come from, where we're headed. The more we can better understand one another's stories and what motivates us,

[00:32:14] I believe allows us to break down stereotypes, our decisions, our actions. And I have tried in my life and leadership journey to leverage my ability to, in one chapter I talk about our ability to listen, debate and negotiate as tools. And I do think the ability to listen, debate and negotiate

[00:32:41] helps with breaking down some of these misunderstandings about who we are and how we operate. And I too, certainly over the course of my career have dealt with all these sort of misinterpretations. And I said earlier, like, look, I'm competitive and I'm ambitious and that can be perceived, aggressive to direct. I am direct. And when properly harness that aggression can be used for good.

[00:33:10] Right. When I first started with our company, we were a $9 billion company. By the time I left less than a year ago, it's over $100 billion company. I feel great about being a part of a team who helped make that a reality, right? Grew the business exponentially and made it better. So I've tried to lean into something that I talk about in the book, like find gold in your roots. There are so many elements of gold in our roots,

[00:33:38] things that perhaps we saw as curses when we were growing up or things you didn't want to talk about about or ashamed of, or that perhaps you tried to sort of rewrite history around because you didn't want to sort of talk about it can be the things that are your superpowers, the things that really do make you uniquely suited to contribute to the success of your organization or your community or whatever sort of realm that you have decided you want to make a difference in. So I have chosen not to run away from, but run towards

[00:34:07] those things that are often misinterpreted because a lot of those things have been misinterpreted are my superpowers. Right? Like my ability to be direct, I think has allowed me to not run away from conflict. I'm not conflict avoidant. Like I'm okay dealing with challenging situations or differing opinions or crisis. I do talk a bit in the book about these sort of rules that I think have guided me message, audience, vehicle, timing, and tone.

[00:34:35] I'm going to say it again. Message, audience, vehicle, timing, tone has saved my life because earlier in my career, I was super rough around the edges. I'm not going to lie. And at times I have to admit, as I get older, I, you know, getting rougher again, but nonetheless, the ability for me to think about what message am I trying to deliver? Who is the audience, the vehicle, right? That's the channel, the timing at which I delivered and the tone. How am I thinking

[00:35:05] about the manner in which I delivered that message? So this balance of finding one's voice and listening have been really important for me as I sort of reconcile the ways in which I've been able to move in the world, operate in the world and let the sort of traits that are the very best of me that for some might feel challenging, not be perceived as such because they are clearer about why I'm doing it,

[00:35:33] who I am and my intentions. So do you think your work at Target has led to lasting change? In the wake of not only the resurgence of Black Lives Matter in 2020 with the deaths of Ahmaud Aubrey, Breonna Taylor and George Floyd, but also in the extreme backlash to it that has now led to

[00:35:55] another Trump administration. I do think in many ways, this book, Lead Like You Mean It, Lessons on Integrity and Purpose from the C-Suite is a lasting manifestation of what for me, will be a gift and an offering to the world on how to have a legacy of leadership and impact that

[00:36:21] leaves things better off than you found them, that really allows you, especially during challenging times, to show up in a way that allows you to still, in spite of what's happening around you, be grounded in purpose and to use that purpose as, as I've said before, as a lantern, as a guide, the decisions that you make in your life and your career, it's important to think about,

[00:36:46] does your personal purpose align with the purpose of the organizations that you work with, whether that's the business that you're working with, the nonprofit organizations that you're partnering with? So this idea of purpose alignment is really important and a part of what I hope will be a lasting legacy of the work that I've done, not only at Target, but that is manifested through the book. And the reader reflections. So helping folks stay grounded in their purpose was something that I did at

[00:37:16] Target and that through this book allows me to do more of that at scale was very important to me and why I wanted to do it. It's important that, again, as the book discusses, that we make intentional choices. That allows us to have a lasting legacy. I spent my time mentoring, sponsoring, being an ally, not only while I was at Target with lots of people outside of the organization, this new platform

[00:37:44] allows me to continue to do more of that. I think one of the things, Nikisha, that might surprise you, you know, often at the closing of a book where there's acknowledgements and the like, so a few closing thoughts, but it's not often called a benediction. You know, I retired from Target, not life. I continue to be of service and will continue to be of service as long as I have breath.

[00:38:10] And I crafted a lead like you mean at Anthem that really was a way for me to speak to the importance of continued impact, continued legacy, to continue to do what we all feel called upon to do. Before the benediction and one of the last chapters on page 191, you state being consumed by work isn't uncommon, especially at specific stages of our lives, but doing so at the exclusion of any kind

[00:38:40] of personal life can have consequences. Yes, girl. So the book starts with balance and the book ends with balance. I was very grateful for that chapter and saying that, and you saying even on page 193 in the section, resilience and love matter. Please tell us why. You know, I think at the end of our lives,

[00:39:04] Nikesha, our love letter to life will be the relationships that we've had, the people that we love, who've loved us, who've helped us have an impact. No one's going to remember my title at Target. Hell, half the people only remember that I worked at Target, right? I'm super blessed and honored to have had an amazing career with this awesome company. And with the help of so many extraordinary people on that team and partners have done great work that I do think has been quite meaningful. But

[00:39:34] at the end of the day, my love letter to life will be the relationships. It will be, like I said, the people I've loved and who've loved me. And to ensure that we've had a life well lived, a truly connected life, one that is defined by our purpose, the legacy of leadership and impact

[00:39:56] that I think we all want to leave, requires that we make intentional choices about investing our time in these incredible relationships, not just working 24-7, 365, which at times I did, and being able to step back from that and still honor the work commitments that you have and do your best, be your best is super important. But if you're not investing in your relationships outside

[00:40:26] of work, in your life outside of work, I don't think you'll be as successful at work, quite frankly. And you won't look back as you are ultimately writing your own sort of obituary, right? If you were to have a celebration of life while you're living, like what are the things that you would be writing that you hope would be said, that you hope would be celebrated? Think about that now. Live into that

[00:40:55] now. Step into that now. So that love letter to life is the actual life that you've lived. So that is actually my last question for all of my guests on Black and Published. So I'm just going to ask you and you can go ahead and answer. You know, when you are dead and gone and among the ancestors, what would you like someone to write about the legacy of words and work that you've left behind?

[00:41:21] I would like people to know that I've loved and been loved, that I'm a proud representation of the roots of the remarkable ancestry that flow through me. I would like them to feel that I left things better off than I found them, that I spent time helping people be the best versions of themselves,

[00:41:46] that I've helped people feel like they are worthy of every space that they've entered, and that they have felt compelled to be of service, right? To have done well, but to feel called to be of service to help others, be and do well, is I hope what I'm remembered for. I hope that I'm

[00:42:09] remembered for being empathetic, being kind, being powerful and purposeful in all things, and for being a child of God, for knowing who I am and whose I am, because that does matter to me. Hey, so after Target's rollback of DEI initiatives, I reached out to Leisha for her thoughts on the

[00:42:36] decision. She said, quote, these are challenging times and leading with integrity and purpose is essential right now. The best companies and organizations across sectors use their purpose and values to guide their strategy and decision making. And I continue to believe that organizations and teams who create a genuine sense of belonging with cultures that value diversity, equity,

[00:43:02] and inclusion will deliver stronger results and performance over time. That is a direct quote from Leisha Ward regarding Target's rollback of DEI initiatives. Big thank you to Leisha Ward for being here today on Black & Published. You can follow Leisha on the socials at Leisha.Ward on Instagram. And Leisha is spelled L-A-Y-S-H-A. And make sure you check

[00:43:30] out Lead Like You Mean It out now from the open field. You can get a copy of the book from Mahogany Books and get 10% off your first purchase using code BLACKPUB at checkout. That's B-L-K-P-U-B. That's our show for the week. If you like this episode and want more Black & Published, head to our

[00:43:52] Instagram page. It's at Black & Published and that's B-L-K- & Published. There, I've posted a bonus clip from my interview with Leisha about how to recover when you get knocked down in your career. Make sure you check it out and let me know what you think in the comments. I'll holler at y'all next week when our guest will be Jamila Minix, author of the novel Moonrise

[00:44:18] Over New Jessup. My single goal in my writing is to tell an honest truth. And so before the book was published while we were still in the editing process, we're sort of like at the stage where I could share it with my family, is that if y'all have any objections at all, I will not publish this book because I want this book to represent us fully and truly. That's next week on Black & Published. I'll talk to you then. Peace.

[00:45:05] What's going on, family? This is Derek Young and Ramonda Young, owners of both Mahogany Books and the Mahogany Books Podcast Network. We really want to thank each and every one of you for listening to this episode. And if you enjoyed what you just heard, drop us a review and rate us on whatever platform you download podcasts on. We truly appreciate each and every one of you for supporting us and making us your go-to for Black books. And we look forward to connecting with you all sometime in the future. Thank you again, fam. And always remember, Black Books Matter.