Is Grieving a Privilege? with Shanda McManus

[00:00:00] What's good, family? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams, the host of Black & Published Podcast, and the author of the novel, The Seven Daughters of Dupree. This historical fiction novel is about the secrets kept between mothers and daughters over the course of seven generations, and is told backwards in time from 1995 to 1860. The Seven Daughters of Dupree was published January 27th, 2026, and is available everywhere books are sold.

[00:00:28] So if you can, please consider getting a copy of The Seven Daughters of Dupree today. This is the Mahogany Books Podcast Network. A friend of mine was just like, well, what are you working on? What are you doing? I was like, oh, I'm not really working now. I've just been writing to my brother. And she was just like, that sounds like a book. And I was like, ooh, I don't know. I wouldn't put this out in the world. This is too much. This is not that kind of book, right?

[00:00:58] What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams, and this is Black & Published, bringing you the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights, and storytellers of all kinds. Today's guest is Shonda McManus, author of Brother Epistles, a sister's memoir. In the book, Shonda writes letters to her brother Monir, who was murdered in 1992, finally reckoning with her grief more than 30 years later.

[00:01:24] I had finally gotten, I would say, the emotional, psychological, and kind of economic and social safety, right? That I could say, okay, I have that undergirding. Maybe I can turn towards this and go into those dark places and stay there. Shonda is a physician and came to writing as a way to do something for herself outside of her professional and familial responsibility.

[00:01:52] How documenting influential people in her life served as a visitation. Plus, why she believes death doesn't sever relationships or connections. And why she says her brother's death is a result of the in-between economy and the systemic structures that funnel young Black men towards homicide. That and more is next, when Black & Published continues.

[00:02:32] So I'm going to make a request right off top because I did read your book. I want you to use your original voice. Not the cleaned up doctor voice. I want you to use the original voice. Okay? Yeah, yeah, that's funny. That's the section I'm going to read from, actually. Perfect. So I just want to put that up front. Like I don't want the cleaned up cold switch version of Shonda. I want Philly Shonda. Okay? Yeah, you got it. All right. First question. Shonda, when did you know that you were a writer?

[00:03:01] I was always a reader first. So I never even thought of myself as a writer, just like a lover of books and words. Ever since I was a kid, I could escape into a book to the library. And I reached a point of super busyness in my life. I had five kids. I'm running to work. I'm doing all this stuff. And I just was looking for something for myself, you know, making space for myself and my own life.

[00:03:27] And I saw like a random road sign in my neighborhood that said community writing class. And I said, you know what? I'm going to sign up for that once a week for six weeks for an hour. And it was just like a wonderful, safe space. And that's when I first started to just write. Not to publish or anything, but just because I had something to say that I hadn't even kind of said to myself.

[00:03:54] And after my first class, I was walking out and one of the other ladies was like, are you writing a book? And I was just like, am I writing a book? It had never even occurred to me. I was just like, I'm just taking a writing class. But yeah, that's how I started. You said you started going to the class just as a way to pour back into yourself, to do something for yourself. And now I don't know what year that was, but so many years later, you do have a book.

[00:04:21] What does it mean to you that something that you started as a way to just hold space for yourself in your own life has now become an offering you've given to the world that is so deeply personal? Wow. It's just unbelievable. I mean, I joined that class in 2018 and, you know, I never thought that it would be 2026 and I would have an actual book.

[00:04:43] And it's really interesting because at first I just wanted a little space for myself, but the journey gave me so much more. It gave me a healing space, you know, not that the wound is ever gone. But now I have a scar where I used to have what I would think like a festering wound underneath everything. Right. So now I have a scar and now I can share with others.

[00:05:10] So maybe if they have something similar, they can see their way towards having a scar. And so that is really like a blessing and something that I didn't even anticipate, you know? Yeah. So like there's been eight years since you first signed up for that class and you talk about, you know, you have a scar where there was once a festering wound. This book is about your brother, his murder, and how you feel about it.

[00:05:37] Were those the first things that you started writing in the class that you hadn't yet said to yourself? Actually, no. When I first started writing a class, you know, what came up for me initially was just my childhood growing up in North Philly. My mom and my grandmom, you know, I had a, you know, just kind of a chaotic childhood upbringing. My mom was diagnosed with a terminal illness when I was five.

[00:06:06] You know, she went into remission, then it came back. She passed when I was 14. So what I was initially writing was just about that, you know, also about my grandmom who passed just three years after my mom in a car accident, just freak accident that happened. So I was going back in those spaces and just reconnecting with that part of myself that had been just kind of put away.

[00:06:33] And I would say not as accessible to myself as it was growing up. I found myself living in a really white suburban space. I'm professionally, I'm in medicine, and I seem so far away from that, you know, North Philly girl growing up. And, you know, I had so many colorful characters in my life, family and friends.

[00:06:59] At one time, my dad was the biggest marijuana dealer in Philadelphia. It was just so much around that. And I felt like I wanted to document that, to kind of archive that, to put it down just so it could be remembered, you know, because so many times those smaller stories of people who are not famous but made such a difference to me and really undercurted my life and my success.

[00:07:27] I was visiting them on the page and visiting those spaces too. Do you remember when your writing took a distinct turn toward your brother? Yes, I exactly remember that. So fast forward to 2020, I sign up for a novel in a year class, right? I was writing, like, nonfiction memoir essays. But I said, you know, I need to learn how to write a book length work.

[00:07:54] So I'm going to practice on fiction, right? So, okay. So that was in January. So everyone knows what happened in March 2020. Bam. It's the pandemic. I'm working out here in the community. People coughing in my face. I'm like, okay, time to get serious. You might die. Don't you want to write down those stories? So that whole year of 2020, I dedicated to, like I said, writing about my mom growing up.

[00:08:23] And when I reached the end of that manuscript in December of 2020, I just was consumed by the desire. I just wanted to talk to my brother. You know, he was the only other person that had lived through everything with me, had lost what I lost, and that he would understand and he would know. But I couldn't talk to him, right? So I just started writing him letters. One letter after another letter after another letter.

[00:08:52] And that's just kind of how it really turned towards him. Because a lot of my readers of that first manuscript were just like, oh, you don't talk about your brother that much. And I'm like, well, he's there. But when I really looked at the manuscript, was he in that first manuscript? Not as much because I really hadn't gone there, you know, after the murder. I just kind of shut all that down.

[00:09:17] So then what was it like for you emotionally to take yourself there and to stay there over so many different letters? And I'm assuming there are more letters that you wrote that did not make this final published manuscript. That would be exactly right. Okay. There's like, you know, some B-sides that won't be published, you know. Some B-sides and some deep tuts. Yes, yes, yes.

[00:09:40] You know, all those years, more than three decades, I was kind of afraid to turn towards that grief, right? Because you're just like, oh, I'm doing okay. I'm holding it together. If I go back there, who knows? I might go crazy. I might be overwhelmed. I might not be able to come back.

[00:09:59] And so I had finally gotten, I would say, the emotional, psychological, and kind of economic and social safety, right? That I could say, okay, I have that, you know, undergirding. Maybe I can turn towards this and go into those dark places and stay there. And I have a supportive family, a supportive husband that we're like anchors, you know.

[00:10:28] So if I'm looking too sad for too long, somebody would be like, hey, I'm just checking in on you. How you doing? So I think that that was critical. And I think it's really critical for anyone dealing with grief or looking at it. Because if you're worried about your basic needs, if you're worried about your economic and psychological safety and support, so you don't have that, you can't adequately grieve, right? You just cannot, right?

[00:10:57] You know, this terrible thing happens or this devastating loss, but you're worried about paying the bills or holding this together. So I think that that's really important for people to just know and understand. You know, like you almost think is grieving a privilege, right? That some people have and some people don't. Did you always know that you wanted to make the letters into the book? When did that idea strike you? Because it seemed so personal.

[00:11:26] Yeah, very personal. And no, initially out of that just desire to talk, I was just writing letters. You know, it wasn't in a book format, but I had a big collection. And a friend of mine was just like, well, what are you working on? What are you doing? I was like, oh, I'm not really working now. I've just been writing to my brother. And she was just like, that sounds like a book. That sounds like you're working on a book. And I was like, oh, I don't know. I wouldn't put this out in the world. This is too much. This is not that kind of book, right?

[00:11:56] But you know what? I had like a small sampling and I let a few trusted people read them. And they were just so moved and so wanting more of it. I said, you know what? Maybe I should think about putting this out there or look at it as a project, right? To go back in and really say, is this something I can share and would want to share?

[00:12:20] And I think the decision to try to put it out in the world was that I wanted my brother to be humanized. You know, when you lose someone to violence, in particular homicide, you're young, you're black, you're male, a lot of times you're reduced to this like a news bite or statistic or, you know, here we go again. Or even you're blamed for your own death, like in a way.

[00:12:47] So I felt like by sharing this really personal, vulnerable, honest, I hope portrait that people can see what's underneath all those statistics and things that we just kind of look over or we're just like insensitive because we just see it so much, right? So I wanted people to have that humanness and be able to sit in it so they can feel it, right? Because that's the thing.

[00:13:16] Things go by so fast. We don't feel that. Murder is horrible, right? We should feel something when we hear about a life that's taken. And that's kind of why I said, you know what? I'm going to share this. So tell me about the publishing journey for this book, Brother Epistles, A Sister's Memoir. Okay. So with that first manuscript, I had like queried it out to agents. I got some nibbles, some full requests, but no takers, right?

[00:13:46] So with this second book, I felt like one, it was in a little bit of a different format, the letter format. It was shorter. It's just under 50,000 words. So I said, you know, maybe this might be a good fit for independent press versus trying to land a big fish and going through the however long you have to wait to try to get an agent. And if you get one, then wait for them to get it picked up. I said, you know what?

[00:14:13] I'm going to start looking at independent presses that I respect and that I might want to have my work published by. And so Split Lip Press was a press that had been on my radar. I had been a fan of one of their writers, Athena Dixon. She wrote the Loneliness Files. And I had ran into them like when AWP was in Philly, I went to their table and they just seem like cool people. They have respectable work out there.

[00:14:42] So when I saw that they had an open call for a manuscript, like at the end of 2024, I said, I'm just going to put my hat in the ring. And then January, 2025, they called me and they said they wanted to pick up. So I was like, yay. What month in 2024 did you submit? It was September. All right. And then January 25, you get the, yeah, we want to pick you up. What was the feedback that you got once you signed with the press and were assigned an

[00:15:08] editor about editing these very personal letters? Like I can imagine that you feel a way and real tightly about your work and what you're saying to your brother. And now you're having to maybe form and shape and modify it for an audience. What was that process like? Cause I cannot imagine that you let that go. You know what? That was my main worry about putting it out there. Oh no, an editor, they're going to change my voice.

[00:15:38] So it's not going to be me, or they're going to want me to do things in a way that I don't want to. But my editor was Athena Dixon. I got her. She works for the press. And when our first phone call took all those worries away, first of all, she was just like, this is a light lift. And she was just like, this book is your book. And all I'm here for is to try to make it more of what it already is. She was just like, you don't have to change anything.

[00:16:07] And by her just saying that and give me that space, I just felt like, it's going to be what I want it to be. It's going to sound like me. And I was just so blessed in that. You know, I can honestly say there weren't that many like big editorial things that had to happen. You know, maybe one letter had to be kind of more streamlined.

[00:16:33] But other than that, it was just kind of little things that I was happy to clarify or expand. And so that was just like my heart. And the other thing about the press was the cover. I was really feeling some kind of way about a cover. I was just like, oh, I don't want just the same generic cover that every book that I've seen in the past few years, geometric, colorful shapes. I was just like, I don't want that, you know?

[00:17:01] So, and so there was a moment where publishing went through like the blob phase and it was just like all these like jewel tone colors and then like amorphous shapes that might not be, could be clouds. And you're like, what is the book about? I don't know. So I was just like, I just don't want one of those terrible covers. And so, you know, their cover designer, he was super cool and worked with me.

[00:17:29] And once I said I wanted a photo, he was totally open. So that whole process was just like a dream. And I do think if you pick the right independent press, you do get more of a say as an author. And so I think that that's definitely a plus for considering it. The cover, looking at it, I know the photo is old, but was it cracked the way that it is on the cover? Because I'm like, the detail in the photograph of the way that it looks, like, you know it's

[00:17:59] an old photo, but then the entire book has that kind of like vintage feel to it. Did all that come from the photo and then was transferred into the design? Yep, absolutely. That photo is an old Polaroid that my mom took of us. So those cracks I have the photo are actually in the photo. And I was just like, this is perfect. This is exactly what I wanted to say that is there, but there are cracks. And even in the photo, like I'm pointing to my brother in the photo. Y'all have the biggest smiles. How old were you guys in this photo?

[00:18:29] Maybe five and three or six and four. Probably five. I think I was five when I had that coat. It would be the sister that remembers the fashion. Yeah. Can you go ahead and read something from Brother Epistles and then we can get deeper into the story? Yeah, absolutely. Brother Epistles, a sister's memoir by Shonda McManus, is the story of Monir Hall, Shonda's little brother by 18 months.

[00:18:57] Through letters, Shonda explores Monir's life, his murder, the multiple tragedies that subsumed her North Philly family and informed her adult decisions and delayed her grief until she couldn't hold herself back from who she was and who she still is any longer. Here's Shonda. This is from one of the later letters in the book.

[00:19:19] Dear Monir, writing these letters is the first time in a very, very long time that I'm using my original voice, O.V. The voice I've muzzled or shushed or forgotten. You know that voice, little brother, you could pick out in a room filled with other voices. Not just the North Philly girl voice from the 90s. My voice, the rhythm and the cadence and the things I talk about.

[00:19:50] You, just you, could pick out the laughter and ease underneath and get the full meaning of everything I'm trying to say. My O.V. is rusty. But when I write to you, it flows and once again feels like my only voice. I don't use this voice a lot in my life now and I miss it.

[00:20:16] It's like an essence of who I am that I don't want to lose. I don't know why it just doesn't come out. Maybe there's no ears for it. Like there's no one who understands. Remember when I worked at that little radio station the summer I was 16? No, that was before the terrible McDonald's job. I had to cover for the receptionist one day and she said,

[00:20:46] Now, you can't answer the phone in that Philly fly girl voice. Bam! It was like cold water thrown in my face. You grow up talking in your own way and you don't realize it marks you. Well, maybe I had an idea because I heard mom and dad switching up voices on the phone with business people. It was different from the voices they use with their friends or us.

[00:21:13] But that was the first time I knew for myself that your voice could hold you back. To get ahead, it would be necessary to silence parts of myself. I think there is one true voice under the other voices you put on and take off. Voices you cloak and layer over your true one.

[00:21:38] But sometimes you wear these other voices so long they seem like they're the real ones. Maybe these other voices are me now. There's a voice for seeing patients. For white friends and family. For black friends and family. For kids and husband. I bet you have a different voice you use with your sergeant than the one you used when you were hanging out with the boys.

[00:22:06] I can get close to that old thing when I talk to your son, Monir Jr. But still, there's a little filtering going on. Less and less of a filter as he's gotten older. But I am his aunt, an elder. Which gives background static. I didn't realize I used another voice with him until my kids said, what language are you talking in? You sound like a different person. We don't even know what you're saying.

[00:22:36] And I said, well, good. Because I wasn't talking to you. So, which is the real voice? The voice my children recognize? Or the one I slip into when I talk to your son? Maybe both. Maybe neither. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:22:54] This book touches the personal, in the murder of your brother, the deaths of your mother, your grandmother, your complicated relationship with your father, and growing up black, low income, impoverished in North Philly. But then it also becomes like a microcosm or a meditation on the ways in which urban inner city kids grow and diverge along different paths. Like you becoming a doctor and your brother becoming a victim of gun violence.

[00:23:24] It all comes out of the same household. And you talk about different social issues that have shaped you and shaped Philly. Thinking specifically about MOVE and the assault by the federal government on those people and their buildings and their homes and their assassinations. Why was it important for you to show the tapestry of where you and your brother came from as you were actively grieving his murder 30 years later?

[00:23:53] Yeah, I think because the fact that homicide, death of young black males is not just the result of an individual choice and decision, right? There's a structure to society, right? And a structure because of who black people are in this country and how we've been treated in this country. And those structures funnel young black men towards homicide, right?

[00:24:21] It's the number one cause of death for young black males age 15 to 24. Still today. And this happened in 1992. So that's not just, hey, you shouldn't have been on the corner or you shouldn't have been doing this. There is some invisible things undergirding that fact, right? It's the neighborhoods, what we have access to, our food, our green spaces.

[00:24:48] All of that goes into how we're seeing, how they're seeing, how we're seeing when we go out of our house. Interactions with the police, economic opportunities. So it is so much under, like, you know, the homicide is the tip of the iceberg. When you go under, there is all that structural things in our society. And under that is culture, it's history, it's all of that.

[00:25:18] You know, so I felt like that naturally came out because it's not just what happened that Christmas Eve. It's everything that was in place before my brother was even born. Mm-hmm. When I worked in television as a news producer, we used to do a few stories about one of the deadliest zip codes in the city. But one year we were doing, it was like a sweep story. So like, you know, one of the big ratings periods. And we were talking about this zip code, this specific zip code.

[00:25:46] But we looked at it from a health angle and it was declared a health zone one. So that's an area where so many people are living below the poverty line. The water sources isn't the best. The air quality isn't the best. The schools that are in the neighborhood are not necessarily the best. All of these different social determinants of health that then make it a tinderbox for violence. Mm-hmm. Exactly.

[00:26:11] And how those are related and how if you address the health needs, the economic needs, educational needs, the food insecurities, because oftentimes it's a food desert as well. And it's not really a food desert. Some people say it's food apartheid because it's intentional with redlining and divestment. Like if you address those issues, then you see the violence decrease because there has been systemic change in the neighborhood. And I'm thinking about what we're seeing this year, specifically in Baltimore, but also from Chicago, because that's where I'm from.

[00:26:40] I mean, you know, they're having a good year in terms of low violence numbers and low homicide numbers that, you know, the mayors of those cities, it's not lost on me that they are Black men. Mm-hmm. That could have gone a different route, but are now leading cities they know so very well toward a different outcome that they may have needed as young men. Yep.

[00:27:03] From your standpoint as a medical professional, as a doctor, what is it that young Black men like your brother in the 90s may have needed beyond the 1994 crime bill that could have helped save their lives? Yeah, I think first and foremost is being seen as children when they are children, right?

[00:27:25] Not as threats, not as thugs, but children who need to be protected, who need to be educated, who need to have access to health care and food and safety, right? And safety. I think that that is a key, you know, coupled with as they grow and develop economic opportunity. That didn't make like drug selling so attractive. My brother, okay, went into the service when he's 17 years old, right?

[00:27:55] He got signed in, right? Because his girlfriend was pregnant and he wanted to provide for his child. So the army seemed like the way to do it, right? He goes into the army and the first letters he writes me, he says, Sean, if you're not white, the army ain't right. And so he just felt it was a bad fit for him. He didn't feel like he was treated equitably and he signed himself out of that army as soon as he could. So he comes back to Philly.

[00:28:25] He's putting in for jobs all over. He signs up to be considered for a veterans program at the University of Pennsylvania, right? But nothing is coming through. You know, the city jobs, nothing. So he's like, oh, you know, I can make some money to tide me over, right? And so that's how he came to be selling crack cocaine, right? And two weeks after he died, I get the letter from the University of Pennsylvania as a veteran that he had been accepted.

[00:28:53] So the difference for my brother would have been an economic opportunity that he could have supported his two children on that salary, right? And, you know, not for nothing, he thought as this alternative economy as a bridge. And I will say that, like, you know, my dad sold marijuana as a bridge when we were young. We grew up in that kind of house.

[00:29:18] And then he went back to community college and he was a systems analyst, a computer programmer, you know? But he had that in-between economy. So it wasn't such a foreign idea, you know? So that would have made all the difference for my brother. A reasonable, economic, accessible opportunity. In the book, you talk about your brother having nine lives.

[00:29:44] There were different incidents throughout his life that took, unfortunately, each one away. The incident with the dog and he was attacked by a dog and all of these different things. But in telling the story of your childhood with him, growing up together, diverging on different paths, you go into college, and then he going to the military and then coming back and being on the block.

[00:30:08] It is very evident in your grief that you blame yourself for his passing and his murder. Do you still blame yourself? Do you still feel complicit because you didn't say anything? And I know this is touching on something in the book about you being a prophetic dreamer. I dreamed that murder before it happened, right? I was 18 months older. And one of my first memories is my mom saying, take care of your brother, right? I was given that responsibility.

[00:30:35] And all through childhood, especially with my mom being ill and we had to travel across the city to school, I was the person who held the tokens, who made sure we got, you know. And when she died, when I was 14, you know, I was in charge. Like, I planned that whole funeral, did all that. But my most important charge was take care of your brother. So I think, like, no matter what, I'm always going to feel like, you know, my brother was my responsibility.

[00:31:01] But I think in really going back and looking at all the things and looking at myself and seeing what we were up against, you know, like I was saying in the previous question, those structures are very hard to overcome, you know. And a lot was against my brother surviving from birth. There were no solutions. Like you said, he was in that funnel. So, yeah. So I think the answer is yes and no.

[00:31:28] I think no matter what, I'm here today and my brother's not, I'm always going to feel some kind of way about that. I get that. Do you think you will take up that charge again now that the book is out and people are reading about your brother and what happened? Yes, yes, yes. And again, I'm still going to offer reward, you know. And to me, there really is no compensation, right? You know, my brother ain't coming back. But a matter of a small measure of justice, you know, just a small manner of justice, you know.

[00:31:58] And also, he was a valuable human life. And so whoever took that life should be held accountable for that and responsible. And that's what I would like to be done. No, I'm never going to get my brother back. No, it's nothing anybody ever can say. But the fact that he was valued enough by this society, by this culture, to hold those responsible for his death accountable.

[00:32:25] What do you want readers to take from the letters that you wrote to your brother? Yes. But then also the letters that he wrote back to you while he was living when he was in the military. Because he was funny. He was a mess. Yes. Like, I was like, not him asking all these different women and all your friends with pictures so that he could put up and basic training. My dude. Yes. Yes. I was like, oh, he's wild.

[00:32:53] I really, really was so happy that the publisher was open. Because the book is from my point of view. You know, he never gets to talk, right? So I just thought, hey, I would love to include his original voice. And just kind of a little bit of that humanity. Not a statistic and not like a saint. Somebody who's superhuman, you know, or, you know, turns into a hero because they died, right? He's just a real, real person.

[00:33:24] And that's what I want people to see. A little bit of that person. What has your family said about your book, specifically his children? So I was a little worried, you know, because there are things in that book that like, you know, my husband was like, I didn't know this. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and so you're always a little bit like, oh, is this too much? Or what are they going to think of me? But I think his sons are so thankful.

[00:33:53] They're like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know my dad was like that dude. You know, they got a little bit of him because they were so young. They don't remember him. And also, like my nephew, Meneer Jr. was like, you're one of us. And I'm like, how did you not know that? He's like, I knew it, but I really know it after reading this book, right? And my dad really appreciated it, you know, and he was like, oh, my gosh, you know. He said at first I was scared to read it.

[00:34:21] But once I did, you know, I have so much gratitude and appreciation because that story is just lived on. And nobody really knows that story kind of but us now, right? Yeah. So I really felt like, you know, that really made it easier to share, you know, all the things. Now that you have written this book to your brother and delved into, like, the deepest corners of your grief, what are you working on next?

[00:34:50] Is there anything that's exciting you now that you've gotten this out of your system? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So I'm returning to that first manuscript that I wrote because my mom was 24 and she was diagnosed with stage four ovarian cancer. Okay. And I just remember being young and hearing my grandmom say, somebody done worked the roots on us.

[00:35:15] I know because of that diagnosis and the other things that happened through, she just like somebody did something. Now I'm young. I don't really know what she's talking about. And she really didn't give me any details. My grandmom and mom, they're from Southwest Georgia, a town called Albany or a little remote park called Leesburg. So that kind of knowledge came up here with them and something that was like, it's in the air, but nobody really talks about it.

[00:35:43] So I want to explore like that story and growing up and the things that happened through the lens of who do and root work and kind of, you know, bring in like knowledge of those practices, do research and kind of link them in with like our personal story and all the things that happen. You know, so that, that's, that's like, that's like, I cannot wait, you know. Is that going to be a novel or are you going to try to keep it nonfiction?

[00:36:12] It's going to be nonfiction, but it's going to be, I guess you would say like memoir plus, you know, there's a book that kind of does something similar, but a whole different. It's called The Man Who Could Move Clouds by Ingrid Cotteris. She did that kind of similar. Have you heard that book? I have heard of that book and I also think of Ken Coleman Foote's book, Coleman Hill, which is based on her family. I forget the term that she used for it.

[00:36:37] It's a term that Audre Lorde actually coined, but it's based on her family, actual members of her family, but then she does something else with the details and the connections. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like that, like that magical realism part of, of work and, you know, like a, um, bio mythology. That's what, yeah. Bio mythology. That's what, and that's kind of what I'm, I'm weaving under there too.

[00:37:02] So I can't wait to, you know, have time to really sink into that and, you know, do that research and, and kind of blend it all together. I look forward to it. So I want to move to a speed round in the game before I let you go for the morning. What is your favorite book? I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings, Maya Angelou. That was the first book I read that I was like, wow, you can tell the truth about all this stuff.

[00:37:26] And like, as a young girl, I was so, and you know, she looked like me, that, that book, that's, that's number one. Who is your favorite author? Same. She's my favorite, but I also, Alice Walker, Zora Neal, those are the, you know, those stories and just, it's just something about that writing and the way they tell a story that just kind of vibrates. Who is your favorite artist, any medium?

[00:37:54] I would have to say Stevie Wonder. I'm a music girl, right? And I remember that album, Songs in the Key of Life. And in the album is a whole booklet of all the lyrics and everything. And I used to sit on the living room floor, put on that album and read along with the lyrics. And just, he's a genius. And so much he created.

[00:38:17] And I just really always just admired the beauty and genius that he brought in the world, despite his blindness, right? He was able to see more than other people. So that's like one of the, you know, the hall of fame of artists for me. I do miss album liner notes so, so much in this video. I miss album liner notes. Yeah. I love, I used to love that. And, you know, my dad had a huge album collection.

[00:38:43] So I would always be pulling open the jackets and reading all the things. I didn't have albums that had CDs, but I did the same thing with CDs. For the artists that would actually put the liner notes and put the booklet in the CD, I would definitely open it and read through it and follow the lyrics and then read all the credits. Yeah. Love album liner notes. Yep. All right. What do you think is the best book to movie or book to series adaptation? I really like The Color Purple, right? You know? The first one?

[00:39:13] The first one. The first movie with Oprah Winfrey in it? That one. Yes. Because I remember I was in high school and I went to a real small Catholic girls high school and Sister Margaret Riley took our class, our religion class, I think, to see The Color Purple. Oh my goodness. And this, yeah. And after I had read it and I was like, what? Sister took to see this movie? But she did. And I always really kind of like appreciated that.

[00:39:42] Sister Margaret Riley was a Black nun, huh? No. No. What? Nope. Nope. Nope. And you know what? We were an all Black school. Like my graduating class was about, it was 35 girls, but we were all Black. We're all from the city of Philadelphia. And these nuns, they were white and she was, but something, I think she was just like, you know, I want to make sure I give them some of their culture. And so she took us and she got a field trip and took us to the movies. I love that. That is amazing.

[00:40:11] If money were no object, where would you go? What would you do? And then where would you live? If money were no object, well, you know what? I'm still, right now I'm living in New Jersey, but I'm looking forward to moving back to city, to Philadelphia, to the city, you know? And one of the other places I love for a while, we used to live near the beach in Atlantic City. And I just love that simple, you know, I don't need any big fancy thing. I still have family. One of my daughters lives in Philly.

[00:40:39] And being where I could get up and walk on the boardwalk every day and see the sunrise and set, that would be it. That's enough for me. Name three things on your bucket list. Three things on my bucket list. Well, the first thing, you know, I don't know if this is fair or not, but I can't wait to be a grandmom. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Like, you know, my grandmom was like fundamental. She was like 39 when I was born. I was her baby. Okay? I was her baby. And we lived at her house.

[00:41:08] Like, we moved all around the city, but we would always be living at her house for a certain time. So I just would love, love, love to be able to give a little bit of that to a grandchild. So I don't know, but that's on my list. I would love to do that, you know. And then just different travel places. I want to see the Northern Lights, you know. I really want to do that kind of more traveling. I just dropped my fifth child off to college.

[00:41:35] So, you know, I got four to finish college and he's the last one just starting. So I'm just looking forward to just cooking for two or not cooking. That part. Not cooking. Yeah. So that's kind of what I'm really looking forward to this phase in life, this next section. What brings you joy? I really have to say it's relationships. And even like through this book, I feel like I've been able to reconnect with my brother,

[00:42:05] with that relationship that was kind of severed or cut off. And I just feel more connected to him, you know, like a little bit of a resurrection. But also the relationships on this side, you know. My dad, God bless him, is still a rock ram. And I love talking to him on the phone and visiting him, watching the Eagles games. I'm a huge football fan. So I love that. And, you know, just in seeing my children grow and thrive, you know, enjoying the relationship

[00:42:33] I had with my husband in our home, those are so precious and things you can't buy, right? The people in your family and outside of your family, those community. That's what I really kind of treasure. And it brings me joy. And what brings you peace? I think what I really found peace is knowing I'm doing what I should be doing or what I've been gifted or privileged to be able to do, right?

[00:43:01] I feel like I'm here because of so many before. My mom, my grandmom, and all those people that I don't even know their names and our ancestry, right? On both sides. So I have peace knowing that I'm doing what I should be doing with what I've been given in the time that I've been given. So I really feel like I can rest in that. So our game is called Rewriting the Classics. Classic is however you define it. Hmm.

[00:43:27] Name one book you wished you would have written. Oh my gosh. Well, Toni Morrison, Beloved. Oh my gosh. I wrote that book. I'll be like, woo! I mean, that's just like, it's a masterpiece of like memory, time, history. I mean, that book, I don't know another book like that that does what she does with that

[00:43:55] whole legacy, you know, of the enslaved and what that means for us and how it shapes and how that's a wound, right? That we're all carrying forward. Name one book where you want to change the ending and how would you do it? Well, back to my old time, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. Why did it have to end at that point? I know she has like a series, but you know- Yeah, it's like three other books in that series. Right.

[00:44:21] But like right afterwards, I was just like, I was hungry for more. I wanted to know like, because I remember the ending, like she had just been a street car person working on that street in San Francisco. And I just was like, well, where are you going to go now? Well, I was hungry for just like the next step, like right after that, you know, like out of the teenage years. That's what I wanted more of. See, when I read, I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. My mama had the box set. So I just read the whole box.

[00:44:52] Final question for rewriting the classics. My little messy question. Name a book that you think is either overrated or overtaught and why? There are so many. Where to begin? Okay. So a book that is a classic, but Moby Dick, man. I can't, whenever someone, I was reading that book and I got to the whale chapters, I'm like, what? They're like, just skip the whale chapters. I'm like, what? Any book that's a classic and I got to skip some chapters?

[00:45:22] What is, why is this on the list? And I just was like, that's it. So I feel like, look, if you're a classic, I should be able to read from page one to the end and you should be able to keep that tension and keep pulling me through. You get to those whale chapters. And I was like, what is this? The encyclopedia on whales? It don't have no story in that part. So anyway, that's, that's my rant on that one. I love that. I haven't had a good Moby Dick rant in a minute. If that's true. Final question for Jay.

[00:45:53] When you are dead and gone and among the ancestors reunited with Monir, what would you like someone to write about the legacy of words and work that you left behind? That this writer showed you that through words, you're always connected and you always live on. Death doesn't have a, be a barrier to relationship and connection. Hmm. I'll share. Big thank you to Shonda McManus for being here today on Black & Published.

[00:46:22] You can follow Shonda on Instagram and threads at ShondaMDWrites. And Shonda is spelled S-H-A-N-D-A. And make sure you check out Brother Epistles, A Sister's Memoir, out now from Split Lip Press. You can get a copy of the memoir from Mahogany Books and get 10% off your first purchase using code BLACKPUB at checkout. That's B-L-K-P-U-B. That's our show for the week.

[00:46:50] If you like this episode and want more Black & Published, head to our Instagram or YouTube page. It's at Black & Published. And that's B-L-K and Published. There, you can watch a bonus clip from my interview with Shonda about the status of her brother's cold case and what the family still doesn't know more than 30 years later. Make sure you check it out and let me know what you think in the comments.

[00:47:16] I'll holler at y'all next week when our guest will be Rhonda McKnight, author of Writer in Residence. Land in the South is like, baby, it's like blood. Land culture here is just people will do anything to get a piece of territory. People want the acreage. And people sometimes, our own people in our own community, they can undo the community. That's next week on Black & Published.

[00:47:46] I'll talk to you then. Peace. What's going on, family? This is Derek Young and Ramonda Young, owners of both Mahogany Books and the Mahogany Books Podcast Network. We really want to thank each and every one of you for listening to this episode. And if you enjoyed what you just heard, drop us a review and rate us on whatever platform you download podcasts on.

[00:48:14] We truly appreciate each and every one of you for supporting us and making us your go-to for Black books. And we look forward to connecting with you all sometime in the future. Thank you again, fam. And always remember, Black books matter.