Be Your Own Kind of Beautiful with Sheryl Lister

[00:00:00] What's good, family? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams, the host of Black & Published Podcast, and the author of the novel, The Seven Daughters of Dupree. This historical fiction novel is about the secrets kept between mothers and daughters over the course of seven generations, and is told backwards in time from 1995 to 1860. The Seven Daughters of Dupree was published January 27th, 2026, and is available everywhere books are sold.

[00:00:28] So if you can, please consider getting a copy of The Seven Daughters of Dupree today. This is the Mahogany Books Podcast Network. I was telling my mom, I want to write this book, and then for 20 years, and she's like, girl, stop telling me the stories and write the book. What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams, and this is Black & Published, bringing you the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights, and storytellers of all kinds.

[00:00:58] Today's guest is Cheryl Lister, author of the USA Today bestselling novel, All My Sisters and Me. It's a novel about sisters-in-law, where three of the four are close, but the one who's been a member of the married N2 family the longest still feels like the odd woman out. People always say, oh, we want to read Twiscape. And then if you write, oh, why are these writers writing all these characters that are perfect? That's not reality. People are not perfect.

[00:01:25] And then when you make a flawed character, they're like, why she have all these flaws? It's like, well, because you know what? In reality, people have these feelings. While Cheryl always wanted to be a writer, she came to the career late in life. She explains why it took 20 years for her to begin writing the books, even though she knew she wanted to tell stories from the time she was a child. Plus, the two major life changes she experienced that led to her career as an author.

[00:01:53] And the random conversation with a family member that served as an inspiration for this novel. That and more is next when Black & Published continues.

[00:02:32] First question, when did you know that you were a writer? Probably when I was a kid. I've always wanted to write. So I would be the kid who either had a book in her hand reading or my little notebook writing out little stories. So I can't even remember when that was. I was way elementary school. When did you decide that it was something that you wanted to do professionally? I think I wanted to do it early, probably in my 20s.

[00:02:59] But back then, there were very few or no books with folk, with people that look like me on the cover. So it was hard to, you know, you think, OK, well, this is not doable since there are no books with us. And then I remember watching, I guess, BET used to have those arabesque movies way back in the day. And I used to watch those and I saw one when I was watching one one evening. And it said Incognito, based on the book by Francis Ray. And I was like, wait, what?

[00:03:30] That book. I do too. Oh, this was in the days of AOL dial up. So my phone was busy for quite a while after I finished that movie because I went diving and found all, found hers, you know, Brenda Jackson, Adrian Burr. Oh my gosh. I mean, all those people. And I was hooked. I was just at home in Chicago at my mother's house where I grew up. And I was looking at the bookshelves in my bedroom.

[00:03:56] And I have, remember they used to, Arabesque used to put out the thick collection. The three and ones? Yeah. I have a couple of those too. I have like four of those on the shelves. And I remember I used to go to Borders. That was my favorite of the chain bookstores. Borders was my favorite, rest in peace. Oh yes, I was the same. I used to go to Borders and, you know, they had their black book section and we won't dwell on that. I know, leave that alone. I would go in the black book section and I would get the three and ones from Arabesque and then get other titles.

[00:04:26] And I, I leave out of there with like eight books. That would be me. And then I would sit on the porch. Like this was my summer after undergrad. I'd sat on the porch and I would have a stack of books and I would read a book a day. That is so funny. You and I were twins because that was me too. On the porch with my books. Yeah. Not even playing. Or I'd be writing, but still, yes, that was the thing. And so that's what, and then I'm like, oh my gosh, there are books with us. So after that, and then I was telling my mom, I want to write this book.

[00:04:56] And then for 20 years, and she's like, girl, stop telling me the stories and write the book. But you know, life. So you get life. You try to get school. You got all the things. Then you get married. You have kids. And then you're like, you know what? There is no time for anything because we running from activity to activity to activity. If that ain't my life, baby, these children and their activities and driving across the county. Listen, listen, my youngest graduated in 2017. So we were all done with that. I love that for you.

[00:05:25] Because I'm writing actively. And I've been on the road, on book tour, promoting the book. Like you doing this post. You got the right ideas. So when did you actually sit down and start writing the books? I actually started sitting and writing the book in 2009 after my mom passed away. Because I was like, you know, life is short. My mom is gone. She kept telling me for 20 years to write this book, to write. It just so happened. You know, I started the book like a month after she passed away because we took the kids and we just need to get away for a little while.

[00:05:55] And so I sat out there at the hotel, you know, where we went on vacation, was writing this little story, writing and writing and writing. You know, you come back home. Oh God, summer's over. Kids got to go back to school. A year later in 2010, I had to have back surgery, my first back surgery. And so I was asking my husband, I'm like, don't I have a backpack? Where is my backpack that we took last year? It was in the back of my closet underneath all the things. And then I opened it up and that notebook was still in there from the year before.

[00:06:25] And so I took it out and tossed it on my dresser because it's like, you know, you got to pack up for the hospital. So I come home and, you know, with back surgery, I had to be for four weeks on my back. There's no sitting, no car rides, no nothing. So yeah, I could sit up for a little bit to eat, but that was it. And so every time I had to stand up, you know, you stand up and you got to wait, get your bearings. And that notebook was sitting right in front of me every time I got up.

[00:06:53] And it was like tapping me on the shoulder, like, so what are you going to do with this? What are you going to do with this? And then about three weeks after the pain had kind of subsided some, but I still couldn't get up. I was sitting, laying in the bed and all of a sudden these vision scenes kept coming. And I'm like, okay, I'll write it. You know, laying on my back. I wrote that book in three weeks. No reservations? No, absolutely not that. My very first book. Oh, no, that was not the first book. That first book will never see the light of day. Okay. Okay. I understand. Never.

[00:07:23] It's like, I thought about it earlier this year. You know, I should fix it and do it. I started reading and said, girl, let it go. There's some cool things in here that you wrote that you can throw in some current books that you have, but this one right here is going to be your catalyst. That was a jump off spot. And that's where we're going to leave it. So then the next year, you know, I had to have another back surgery literally a year later at the same time. So I sat there. Oh, her cousin needs a story. And I wrote that book. And then I had to have a third surgery. So he said, don't even go back to work.

[00:07:51] Wrote a whole other book, which I ended up self-publishing in 2019 called Closer to Use a Romantic Suspense. And then I wrote a fourth book. So I wrote like three books while I was laying there and couldn't not go back to work for six months. Who knew? Just lay it up with back surgery and we don't write books. Okay. You know, God says, you know what? Cause you're not sitting down doing this. So let me just lay you here so you can get it done. And that fourth book is the one that got me my deal with Harlequin. So it was my first bullet book in 2014. It was called Just To Be With You.

[00:08:20] And then I kind of, after my second book and readers were asking about side characters, I asked my agent, Hey, do I have to get permission if I want to write? He's like, no. Oh, what you want to do? You want to write one? I was like, uh, yeah. Okay. Wait. And so that's when my hybrid journey started. So like, really, I'm just grateful that I had an agent who was okay with me doing that because I have another author friend who we had published around the same time, you know, brand new. And her agent is like, no, no, don't do your self-publishing.

[00:08:48] You know, wait a few years until you get your thing in. My agent's like, nope, let's do it. Two books in. Did your agent find you from your self-publishing work or did you query to get an agent to do your book deal with Harlequin? Okay. Actually, no, I already, I got the deal by myself. But then. Oh, okay. Yes. And then I reached out to some of these, my OG literary sheroes and said, Hey, you know, people are telling me, you know, you got this deal on your own. Don't get an agent. All they're going to do is take your 15%. I'm like, somebody got to read this contract.

[00:09:18] We'll just hire a lawyer. And they're like, but if they don't know the literary space, you're still going to get screwed because you need to know the language, what it means, what is happening here? What's a good deal and what's not, you know, what's a good contract. And so I, you know, boop, reached out to one of my little OGs and she said, Oh no, no, no, baby. You want to write books. Let you know, find your agent. Who are you looking at? And it just happened to be that my agent that I was looking at happened to be under her

[00:09:46] agent who owned the agency. Okay. And she said, Oh yeah, go. She's a good little agent. She only been an agent about a year, but she going to be a powerhouse in a few years. That's what she told me. You know, and I said, okay. So me trying to craft the letter and another message pops up, just got off the phone with she going to lunch right now. So call her in 45 minutes, get in there and sell yourself. So my OG author. That they told you, they gave you all this advice. Please name them. Ms. Bev, Beverly Jenkins.

[00:10:15] Okay. Shout out to the legendary Beverly Jenkins. Yes. She got me to bypass the slush pile where you have to, you know, submit through their thing, wait eight to 12 weeks or whatever. But I still had to get in there and do the work and sell myself. That's what she told me. She said, I get in there and sell yourself. I love that. Ms. Bev right here. She can have whatever she wants anytime she wants, because with her help with me pass that

[00:10:42] slush pile and then being able to get in there and still, I, like I said, I still had to be in there to sell myself and that book to this agent. And I have to tell you, Ms. Bev's prediction saying that she was a junior agent and she'll be a powerhouse in a few years, 100%. And I love Ms. Sarah Younger. She is amazing. Best agent ever. I love this story. But you mentioned that you do hybrid.

[00:11:10] So you go back and forth between self-publishing and traditional publishing. Why? Why? First of all, just why? Some of the stories I feel like big publishing houses won't publish, you know, so I reserve those for my stories that I want to do. And then I can tell them the way I want to tell them without gatekeeping. Because, you know, there are some rules when you're with the, oh, you can't put too much of that. Oh, you can't do this. But over here in my self-club, I can write how I want, the way I want, whatever I want in the book. So it's like the best of both worlds.

[00:11:39] So I can still do these things over here with stories, but I can also choose to do some different kinds of things on my own. So how many books deep are we, Ms. Sarah? This right here, this new release was book number 42. You got a big backlist, okay? So where did this story come from, all my sisters and me? A conversation with my sister-in-law while we're prepping Thanksgiving dinner. We're at the stove. So I'm making hot water cornbread and she just comes and stands next to me. She's heating up the food and we're talking.

[00:12:09] She says, so you still write books, right? I'm like, of course. She says, well, when are you going to write our story? I said, what story? Sisters-in-law. I said, honey, ain't nobody reading that book. We get along. We don't have no problems. And so I have another sister-in-law. There's three of us, you know? And I said, girl, we get along fine. She said, well, I can cause some trouble if you want. You know, so we can do it. And I'm like, I know. And I said, I have like about 50 books that I need to be writing first. But, you know, maybe I can get to that. And then a month later at Christmas, you know, I'm sitting on the couch. You know, we're eating. She comes sliding next to me with her little bowl, eating her stuff.

[00:12:38] And nonchalantly, so you start our story yet? You know? And I'm like, no. What'd I tell you, girl? What happens? So I go home Christmas night. It's like 11, 1130. Now he's sitting on the bed. Takes my phone out. What do I do? Sisters-in-law story. Starts writing little possible plots. Getting characters. You know, trying to figure out ages and what they're doing. And stuff like that. And then I sent her a text. See, I'm not even supposed to be writing on this.

[00:13:06] I have all the books that I'm supposed to be doing. And you have me up here taking notes and starting this story over here. And so when I got the Harper contract, I pitched this second book to them after no reservations. And they said yes. So she gets her story. What year was that? The conversation took place in 2019. Okay. So, yeah. And then my Harper contract, when I got the deal, it coincided with the strike.

[00:13:35] And so we couldn't even announce it until they reached their deal. So it was a little delay in there. So I had to like keep it to myself for months. I was like, oh my God. So your sister-in-law got her story and now we have it. And it made the USA Today best of us. So congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. You're very, very welcome. Can you please read something from All My Sisters and Me so we can talk about these women? Okay. All My Sisters and Me by Cheryl Lister is the story of the Bradley family.

[00:14:04] The matriarch Yvonne, the patriarch Aaron, their four sons, and their son's wives, Giselle, Cameron, Taylor, and Chanel. Over the course of seven years, we see these women come into the Bradley family and try to find their way as sisters while dealing with their own careers, insecurities, and personal tragedies that threaten to rip them apart. Here's Cheryl. I'm going to read a little bit from Giselle's point of view.

[00:14:33] So this is at the start of the story. So this is the beginning of her angst with Cameron. So this is the introduction to her coming into the picture. What's up, family? They all turned at the sound of Tariq's voice. He and Austin shared the same height and muscular build and they looked alike enough to be mistaken for twins despite their three-year age difference.

[00:15:01] Next to him stood a gorgeous woman about Giselle's color who had to be at least 5'8 or 5'9. She seemed to breeze into the room as if she were a model on a runway. With her locks flowing around her shoulders and bright smile, she seemed to have everyone in the room mesmerized. Including my own husband, Giselle thought with irritation. Tariq pulled the woman close to his side and the two shared a smile. Everyone, I'd like for you to meet Cameron Brooks. Cam, this is the family.

[00:15:30] He pointed out each one as he named them. I'm so happy to meet you all, Cameron said. Tariq has told me a lot of good things about you. Placing an arm around his wife's shoulders, Papa Aaron said. We're glad to meet you, Cameron. I brought a dessert to add to your table, Mrs. Bradley. She handed the cake box to Mama Yvonne. Oh, honey, you didn't have to bring anything. You're our guest. I told her the same thing, Mom, but she didn't listen. Cameron playfully elbowed Tariq.

[00:15:57] You know you don't just show up to somebody's house empty-handed. She giggled when he pulled her closer, whispered something in her ear, and then placed a kiss on her temper. Giselle viewed the exchange with curiosity. Tariq had never behaved this way with the women she'd seen him with previously. Today, however, he seemed almost possessive. Is that a pound cake? Vincent asked, grinning and rubbing his hands together. Yes, it's a recipe that's been passed down for generations in my family.

[00:16:26] I usually make it for special occasions. Baby, you never made me one, Tariq said with mock offense. We've been dating for four months, and I thought I was special. She laughed and placed a quick kiss on his cheek. You are special, and you can have the first piece after your parents. I guess. Tariq's playful pouting made everyone laugh. Mama Yvonne shook her head and said, now that the meat is done, let me put everything on the table so we can eat. If you show me where I can wash up, I'll help, Cameron said.

[00:16:55] Taylor moved to the sink. Me too, Mama Yvonne. That would be wonderful. Thank you. Cameron, you can just wash your hands in the sink here since Taylor has the water on already. Oops, my bad. Sorry, Mama Yvonne. I've been coming over here so much that I forgot about going to the bathroom to wash up, Taylor said. Austin handed paper towels to Taylor and Cameron. It's the same water. Giselle watched as the two women jumped in to help. She'd offered her help over the years, but Mama Yvonne always said she didn't need it.

[00:17:25] Yet today, her mother-in-law stood gushing over the two newcomers and praising them for their help. Forcing down a surge of jealousy, she washed her hands and grabbed a dish. Thank you. I don't think I have ever hated a character as much as I hated Giselle. I couldn't stand that lady. I know. I know. I hope that she redeemed herself somewhat by the end of this story. I know. By the end of the book,

[00:17:55] I was just glad that she had got it together. I know. Because Cameron should have threw hands with that lady. I know. Like in chapter three. Three. Exactly. Exactly. I know. But, you know, you're coming into a family. But then, you know what? I look at it. It's like, you know, we all have some family members that are that way. And it's not the knock down, drag out fights and everything. It's that simmering that this festers for over years. And we have that.

[00:18:24] And it becomes more distant and more distant. Like, you know, I'm just not talking to her because if I do, it's going to be on and popping. You know, kind of thing. And I wanted to show that reality because we do have, you know, you have those things in families where it's just that tension is there for an extended amount of time. And then. You took us through that for like a decade, friend. It was like seven years. I know. So y'all who are listening and reading, it's going to be seven years. But I promise you, she's going to get herself together. Man. If you have to throw your book, throw it softly so you don't break nothing

[00:18:54] and mess up the spine because it's a pretty cover. I just want to say that. Throw it softly. Throw it at the pillows. Yeah. Throw it at the pillows or on the bed. But don't, you know, don't mess up my pretty spine. I love that cover. So we know this is not based off of you and your sisters-in-law because y'all get along. And three out of the four sisters-in-law in the book do get along. Why was she just so goddamn insecure? Because I think the difference, because if you think about it,

[00:19:23] Chanel had a similar upbringing. But I wanted to just suppose how some people deal with things differently. We all deal with them differently and what we bring, the baggage and trauma from our past and our childhood that we bring into our adult lives is that Chanel had a whole different viewpoint where, you know what? I had to deal with it as a kid, but I don't have to deal with it now. But she also had a little bit of different situation in hers, whereas, you know,

[00:19:52] her mother was non-persona grava. She was kind of MIA. So she did not have it. Whereas Giselle, they were still in her ear. Her mother, her sisters. So it's hard to let go if you're still hearing the noise. Whereas with Chanel, the noise was muted. So you can kind of do some healing maybe. But then I always think about that cliche, you know, hurt people, hurt people. You're so angry because you don't feel like,

[00:20:22] you know, you had never been treated as if you mattered, that you were not enough. You will feel threatened when you finally find a place when somebody sees you, you feel seen in this Bradley family. And she's finally feeling that security. And if somebody else comes in the room, you're thinking, oh my God, there's not going to be enough love for me. Hmm. Ooh. I know. It's like, I'm listening to you. I'm like, I get that. I have to. I know, I know, I know. but I still wanted her to get herself together today.

[00:20:50] I wanted her to get herself together like so much sooner than she did. Right. And you think about, because that's the reality. Some people can get through their things in months. Some people, it takes maybe a year. And then other people, it takes us a while to get ourselves together. So I wanted to show all of those phases. We had different things with people getting themselves together and how long it took them. I know you. She's still. Okay. I'm going to let you have it. It's your book. Like what you decided to do.

[00:21:20] I'm going to let you have it. I just know that lady worked my last nerve. I was like, I don't think I've ever hated a character and hate read a character story this much. Yeah. I made it to the end and I was like, finally. Yeah. Yes. Yes. But you know, sometimes it take a come to Jesus being for real. And she had a few come to Jesus means. Had, I mean, she had a few. It's like, she ostracized herself from the family. And then I'm like,

[00:21:47] and your husband is still sticking beside you. Yeah. Yeah. They don't make them like that no more. What factory he came from? Okay. Right. Right. Like two days. Be like, girl, peace. All the drama she kept up. Yes. Wasn't worth it. Yeah. Yeah. But for her, it's like we talk about in books, you know, people always say, oh, we want to read to escape. And then if you write, oh, why are these writers writing all these characters that are perfect? That's not reality. People are not perfect.

[00:22:16] And then when you make a flawed character, they're like, why she have all these flaws? It's like, well, because you know what? In reality, people have deep flaws. Because, you know, you have some people who have, you know, minor flaws, you know, little flaws, little irks. But then you have people who are very deeply scarred. So it takes a little bit longer for them to climb out of the abyss to get to. Okay. I love a flawed character. I love a messy character. I do. I do love a good messy character. I write messy characters.

[00:22:45] I got a note from my agent on my manuscript. Now he was like making messier. And I was like, oh, okay. All right. I can do that. I think because a lot of Giselle's insecurities were internal. Yeah. She didn't like her body. She felt insecure about her lack of education and credentials. She was insecure that because she can't cook. Like she had all of these little things. And then, so she's comparing herself to these new women who are coming into the family that

[00:23:14] she found solace in and like an escape from her own family and the cruelty of her own mothers and sisters. And only see her as a paycheck. And I'm just like, girl, you won. Yeah. Please open your eyes and see. And I think that was my frustration. Cause it was like, she wasn't seeing what was right in front of her face. Until she almost lost it. Because she was so afraid that she would lose the love that she finally had been receiving. That. And then it was like,

[00:23:43] she didn't even allow herself to like love that man for real. Because she had a man, she had issues that she didn't even realize, you know, with her, her trauma. So she had no idea that she had that little piece that she's holding back because she was afraid. And I ain't going to spoil it because. No spoilers. Yeah. So she was afraid of that. So she has so many layers to unpack. And if I had not been so far over my word to count,

[00:24:11] I really wanted to have another chapter with her. And Sean. In the middle between to show that maybe at therapy or maybe, you know, that talking with her getting those pieces out that she didn't know was there, but I was already like. Well over the word count. I mean, way, way. Cause there was a, I was like, there's about three more chapters. I wanted to write. I was like,

[00:24:40] I can't write Taylor's other chapters. I wanted to have a chapter later to see that. Was it enjoyable for you to pull all these different familial layers and complexities and dramas into the story and write these women? Yes. And no. Yes. It was exciting. No, because I was like, I have never written a book that takes place over years. So that's a hard thing because you have to time jump, you know, and then you're like, okay,

[00:25:09] so how do you time jump and how do you keep these women straight? You know, and what goes for each year and how many years can you put in here? You know, so what can do? Cause otherwise, you know, I'd still be 150,000 words. If I could just do what I really wanted to do, you know, because it's a lot to try to keep it in here, but it was very rewarding to watch the change after the club of Jesus meetings.

[00:25:39] What do your readers say to you? I mean, I had someone literally send me a voice message saying how much they love the book. And then I had another reader coming to my, in my Facebook messenger talking about girl, Giselle got about to go and get me a belt and whoop her. I mean, I mean, I'm getting all the things. And then I got people saying, Oh my God, this resonated with me so much that I could see part of it.

[00:26:08] I had to stop a few times because wow. And this is a book that I'm going to keep rereading over and over. I mean, so I've gotten so many, you know, but I have gotten people, you know, like I want to throw this book and come and jump in there and grab that girl. I'm like, I know, I know. And I also like to just throw out there since we talked about this. There's a tissue warning for this book. So make sure you have them. Yeah. Cause I always, when I did no reservations, people were like, uh, ma'am, if you just going to blast off, you need to be tissue warning. I'm like,

[00:26:38] so I'm going to come this time and say, get your tissues. Cause you will need them for a couple of parts. Yeah. It's some parts that they kind of put, let your heart make. And I did get calls about that too. I can imagine. I mean, I have a text there. Like, I know you didn't. And honestly, I wanted to change my mind. I was so sad as I was writing. I was like, okay, I do this no more. Cause I love them. I did. That was, they were like, they were cute. I love them together. And I think that,

[00:27:07] I think because that's kind of my story. So, and that's kind of me and my husband, we were playful like that and silly and goofy. And it was like, wait, why did I say that? Cause you know, when you first pull out, you're not necessarily connected so much, but once you start writing and you get to feel it and you're like, Oh, why? Have your sisters in law read the book? And what has their feedback been? Since it's, it's not yet. I'm going to sign a copy and send it down to,

[00:27:35] cause when my husband goes back to visit to his parents on Sunday, I'm going to send it to, to my sister-in-law. So let her be like, here girl, here's your copy. Here's your book. Here's your book. That you made me write. I said, this book took me through some stuff. And I was like, I've never taken any more, nothing from you. I'm right. Nothing else you suggest. Funny. What do you want readers to take from this story? All my sisters in me. A few things. I think I want them, I guess the most important thing for, especially as women,

[00:28:04] black women in particular, that we carry so much trauma. There's so much expectation on us. That's me. This is in some ways, like a little love letter of sort of a reminder that says, you are enough. You are worthy of love just as you are. You know, you could be your own kind of beautiful. You don't have to subscribe to anybody else's definition in order to be deemed worthy of love and everything else.

[00:28:31] And the other part is that sometimes found family is better than the toxicity of a biological family. And it's okay to embrace that. All right. Well, I want to move to a speed round in the game before I let you go for your morning. What is your favorite book? Topaz by Beverly Jenkins. I love that book. That is that. Dicks. I love that book. Dicks. that's all I dicks. When he said, I'm going to dance with my wife. I was like, listen, they're like,

[00:29:00] since when did you start dancing? You know? So, I mean, or it could be, but then preacher too. So let me just, okay, wait. I don't know. All right. Who's your favorite author? Oh gosh. That's a hard one. Cause I have a few. Top five. Frances Ray, Brenda Jackson, Beverly Jenkins are my top. Top three. Okay. Yeah. Who was your favorite artist? Any medium. Okay. Cause I'm a music lover. So I'm about to throw Will Downing out there.

[00:29:30] Cause he's been my favorite for some years. All right. You know, and he knows it. What do you think is the best book to movie or book to series adaptation? I'm going to weigh in and do like an independent type film. And it's Brenda Jackson's, her trilogy, A Man's Promise, A Brother's Honor, and A Man's Vows, her Granger series, because it was done independently. It was more in line with the book and you could follow, you know? So I think I go with that one.

[00:29:59] If all my sisters and me got the screen treatment, who would you want to play? Giselle, Chanel, Taylor, and Cameron. Oh gosh. I don't want to make y'all hate Jill Scott. Cause I would put her for Giselle. Cause she, I think she can own that. We've seen Jill do some evil roles when she was on the episode of SVU. She was diabolical. Oh, I missed her on that. really? SVU? She was on SVU? Jill Scott was on this episode of SVU where she was beating her sister. Oh,

[00:30:29] I'm gonna have to go check that. I'm gonna go find it. You think I'm not? I'm gonna go find that. So if I find it, if you get a little message, be like, I can look it up. So yeah, Jill can be evil and we will still love her. Yeah. So go for it. Jill Scott. She would do well as Giselle. For Cameron, ooh, I like Issa Rae. Okay. Okay. Issa Rae. For Taylor, Regina Hall. That's who I was thinking about. Okay. Regina Hall. She would do it. And Chanel,

[00:30:58] I need one that's a little bit more shy. Just a little not as, and I can't think of one who is. Maybe Ryan Destiny. Like she's not, I don't think she's shy, but like maybe Ryan Destiny. What is she saying? Or Coco Jones. Coco is not shy at all. No. Maybe so. Maybe. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Maybe Ryan Destiny. That might work. Okay. So like, so can you just like put that word out and call them up? So, cause we're going to need this book. You heard it here first. We need to have that book. We need to have this book on the screen. I think we,

[00:31:28] I think it would play. I feel like it would do well on the screen just because it's, you know, it's family and messy. It's family mess. Yes. Yeah. And there are a lot of holidays, so it could definitely have like a holiday theme to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If money were no object, where would you go? What would you do? And where would you live? I'd probably buy me an Island someplace and go there with me, my hubby and select invitations for people.

[00:31:57] I love that. But I had to have access to all my good stuff that I need. Name three things on your bucket list. Seeing one of these books, go to film, going to Ghana, Senegal, and, Ooh, what else am I going to do? I don't know. Something that involves my husband though, whatever it is. Okay. Okay. What brings you joy? Oh, my family. What brings you peace?

[00:32:26] God and my husband. And name an author whose career you admire most. Ooh. I'm going to put Kimmy Pharrell. She's relatively new, but she was very tentative about getting out there. And we were like, no, baby, you got to go out there. And I'm watching her blossom so much. And it is just, that is such a joy to see her blossom and find herself, her place in this literary space. So she, I am enjoying watching her grow.

[00:32:56] I love that. Our game is called rewriting the classics. Classic is however you define it. Name one book you wished you could have written. Well, I kind of did do one that I would have written and modified it. Mulan. Cause I love that movie with a kick butt, you know, kind of heroin, you know, kick butt name. So Mulan is kind of, and I did sort of flip gender, flipped it and did that. But yeah, so that's kind of what I would do.

[00:33:24] I love those fairy tales of flipping and modernize them. Name a book where you want to change the ending. And how would you do it? I can't name the book. I'm going to keep that to myself. Okay. But I would change the ending because it was, built as a romance. And at the end of the book, the woman is still, there's a man that she's supposed to be with who loves her and proposing to her,

[00:33:50] but she's chasing after an ex or a person who was supposedly dead for all this time. And then she thinks she spots him. So you have this man who loves you, but you're over here still chasing somebody else. And at the end of the book, the guy proposes, the one that loves her proposes, you know, I think I'm going to go find myself. What? Yes. I would change that ending. She don't have to stop chasing one person or let this man go. One of the, one of the,

[00:34:19] you don't be engaged. Pick a struggle. Pick a struggle. Exactly. Pick a struggle. Well, that's how I would do it, but I will keep the title to myself. That's fine. I respect that. Final question. Name a book that you think is overrated or overtaught and why, and you can do dead people. You don't have to name colleagues. Silas Marnus. I'm like, why did we have to read that in high school? Why? I didn't understand. I didn't even understand why we needed to do that.

[00:34:50] Yeah. I never heard that answer. They may have taken that one off the curriculum in the later years. Okay. So did I just like date myself or something? A little bit, just, just a touch. It's all right though. But you know, I want to say that that was my 10th grade year. So I'm not going to say, some books have been on the curriculum for decades and centuries and others get thrown off. I hope that they have taken that one off because for real, why? And my final question for you,

[00:35:19] when you are dead and gone and among the ancestors, what would you like someone to write about you and the legacy of words and work that you left behind? I want people to know that I love what I did and that I was a giver and an encourager. Big thank you to Cheryl Lister for being here today on black and published. You can follow Cheryl on Instagram and threads at Cheryl Lister and Cheryl is

[00:35:47] spelled S H E R Y L. And make sure you check out all my sisters in me out now from Harper muse. You can get a copy of the novel from Mahogany books and get 10% off your first purchase using code black pub at checkout. That's B L K P U B. That's our show for the week. If you liked this episode and want more black and published head to our Instagram or YouTube page.

[00:36:16] It's at black and published and that's B L K and published there. You can watch a bonus clip from my interview with Cheryl about the five books she's working on next and the new genre she hopes to explore. Make sure you check it out and let me know what you think in the comments. I'll holler to y'all next week when our guests will be Ebony Walden, author of the essay collection, where I'm from, a poetic journey across five continents.

[00:36:45] I was operating before the trip. And when I began the trip at half of my human capacity and what the trip helped me do is to break open the part of myself that needed to live in order to be a whole functioning human being and let go of my survival mechanism. I needed heart. I needed intuition. I needed discernment. I need to be like, girl, ain't nothing on this trip certain because it's just going to hit the fan. That's next week on black and published.

[00:37:15] I'll talk to you then. Peace. What's going on family? This is Derek Young and Ramonda Young, owners of both Mahogany Books and the Mahogany Books Podcast Network. We really want to thank each and every one of you for listening to this episode. And if you enjoyed what you just heard, drop us a review and rate us on whatever platform you download podcasts on.

[00:37:42] We truly appreciate each and every one of you for supporting us and making us your go-to for black books. And we look forward to connecting with you all sometime in the future. Thank you again, fam. And always remember, black books matter.