Anger is a Muse with Lamya H

[00:00:00] It felt really shitty to be queer in Muslim and be going to straight Muslim spaces and queer spaces and just really like living at the intersection of those things. What's good? I'm Nikesha Elise Williams and this is Black and Published. Bring a view to the journeys of writers, poets, playwrights and storytellers of all kinds. Today's guest is Lamia H.

[00:00:30] of the memoir Hijab Butch Blues. A book Lamia had no intention of writing until she started channeling her anger into essays.

[00:00:40] Honestly my agent knew before I did that I was going to write a book. She contacted me because she had read a few of the essays that I was writing and a lot of the essays had these sort of like memoir elements and she was like, cool you should write a book and I was like,

[00:00:59] haha, absolutely not. I'm flattered but I don't think so.

[00:01:04] Centered around their experience of being both Muslim and queer, Lamia's memoir is a lesson on how to carve out a life that works for you despite the rigidity of systems of faith and gender expression.

[00:01:18] The reason they said forgetting was necessary for them to live. Plus, how picking at the scars of life helped them be more vulnerable on the page.

[00:01:29] And the two beliefs about God that helped them get out of bed in the morning. That and more is next when Black and Published continues.

[00:01:48] Well, Lamia, welcome to Black and Published. First question. When did you know that you were a writer?

[00:01:59] I feel like I have a very nontraditional path to writing. I came to writing mostly through reading. I used to read a lot and actually I still read a lot and to me,

[00:02:10] reading is sort of like training for writing. But I didn't really see myself as a writer until my late 20s and I found myself sort of telling a lot of stories to people about things that had happened to me or things that I was angry at.

[00:02:27] And this one time a friend of mine was like, hey, you know, when you tell these stories, it doesn't really do anything like the anger goes away and like it just sort of dissipates.

[00:02:36] But if you wrote about it, it would like be very different. It would do like a different kind of work instead of just being like the story that you tell.

[00:02:44] And so I kind of started writing out of the blue when she said that it was a friend that I respected a lot and I was like, okay, this is something that, you know, I like know the contours off because I read so much.

[00:02:56] And also around the time that I started writing in like the mid 2010s, personal essays were really exploding.

[00:03:03] And I found myself reading a lot of those and really enjoying learning about people and identities and just like the world through essays.

[00:03:11] And so yeah, so I was like, okay, cool. Let me let me see what happens if I write one.

[00:03:16] And I wrote one and I just, I really enjoyed writing it. I enjoyed sort of like putting it out into the world and having feedback.

[00:03:24] And from there, it kind of like snowballed in some sense. I found that I had so much more to say.

[00:03:30] And then I started applying to random things. I applied to a queer writing retreat called Lambda Literary and things really snowballed.

[00:03:37] And so it wasn't until I would say like my late 20s that I was like, okay, I'm doing this. I'm writing. I enjoy writing. I'm a writer.

[00:03:49] I hear the question mark in your voice. What were the things that were making you angry that forced you to explore the depth and breadth of that anger with your words?

[00:04:05] So when I first started writing, the things that were making me really angry were just the way that people who were living at the intersections of queerness and muslimness were treated in both those communities.

[00:04:18] It felt like there was a lot of homophobia in Muslim communities. And it felt like there were a lot of people that I just like didn't want to be out too, that I was like scared of accidentally coming out to people who just like said a lot of like homophobic things.

[00:04:34] And then similarly I felt like the queer communities I was in were really, really homophobic as well.

[00:04:40] And so it felt like people were just constantly making comments. Like sometimes consciously, sometimes unconsciously that felt very xenophobic, that felt very anti-Muslim.

[00:04:53] And there was this way in which my presence at various events as someone who was wearing hijab, it felt like there was this weird way in which that was being like exoticized.

[00:05:05] And my first essay actually came out of an incident that happened where I went to Brooklyn Pride and afterwards everyone was hanging out at a bar.

[00:05:14] And I was in line waiting to get in. And this woman behind me started stroking my hijab and I turned around and she was like nice.

[00:05:25] And it made me so angry. And that really precipitated me thinking about the ways in which it felt really shitty to be queer in Muslim and be going to straight Muslim spaces and queer spaces.

[00:05:43] And just really like living at the intersection of those things.

[00:05:47] Did your writing make it easier for you to navigate those spaces or did it just open your eyes and to all the contradictions that exist in those spaces?

[00:06:00] I think in some ways both.

[00:06:02] I think part of why I started writing and part of what I find interesting about the act of writing is that to me, it feels like you're solving a puzzle.

[00:06:13] Like there's something that's stuck in your head and you're like, why do I keep coming back to this over and over? Why does this feel uncomfortable? Why am I still thinking about this?

[00:06:23] And so what writing allows me to do is really look at that sort of like that problem and disentangle it.

[00:06:29] It doesn't mean that I like necessarily solve it or like things get easier, but definitely it allows me to approach that from different angles and really think through what makes me uncomfortable.

[00:06:40] What are the various parallels that I'm seeing? What are the ways that I can sort of like work through this?

[00:06:47] And so to me, it felt like writing about that incident, for example, like really helped me be like, okay, why is this making me uncomfortable?

[00:06:57] Why is this making me angry? What do I need to do next time that I go into a space like this? What would I say? What would I look out for? Who would I go with?

[00:07:06] What are the spaces that I would go to?

[00:07:08] And so like really sort of like exploring from all these angles.

[00:07:12] And similarly, you know, a lot of the other essays that I wrote really sort of like disentangle various problems.

[00:07:19] Like one of the things that I found myself thinking about again and again when Trump was like running for president is that like there was this way in which people were talking about Islamophobia as if it was this new thing.

[00:07:31] And to me, it felt like a continuation of the past. It didn't feel it felt different, but it didn't feel new if that makes sense.

[00:07:39] And so I wrote an essay about that, the ways in which Islamophobia has shown up in my life over and over and the ways in which like you know things weren't new.

[00:07:48] And I found myself going back at statistics, kind of writing to really sort of like disentangle both what I was feeling and then also look at the numbers and the data and really think through what was happening.

[00:08:01] And so then I wonder what did it feel like in your body to be in a space and time in the United States, where Islamophobia is not new but is being treated as such and to be other different that.

[00:08:16] And then also to be other because of you being part of the queer community and having to navigate that as a brown person with Middle Eastern Southeast Asian descent at a time where white nationalism and the xenophobia was really beginning to show when being bolder because of Trump running for president in 2016.

[00:08:45] I find it really hard to answer questions about feeling things in your body because I didn't even realize that you were supposed to feel things in your body until like really, really recently after a lot of therapy.

[00:08:58] Oh my gosh.

[00:09:01] But I think that's actually part of the experience and part of what you're asking like what, what did it feel like in my body like an honestly, I don't know that it felt like anything and part of that is because I feel like I needed to feel nothing to get through it.

[00:09:17] You know what I mean?

[00:09:18] Like if you sort of like really are attuned to and listen to the way that like racism shows up in your body, like it can kill you like literally.

[00:09:29] Yeah so I find it so interesting and one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot recently is sort of like the process of forgetting and the ways in which like it feels like there's a level of forgetting that needs to happen to go on and move on.

[00:09:47] That makes me really angry and that also makes me be like, is this like, is this necessary to keep going? Is that why this like forgetting happens.

[00:09:59] I found myself thinking about recently was the Muslim ban there's this way in which I move through the world every day forgetting those things and find myself so surprised at myself at this forgetting and I've been really sort of like thinking through the politics of that.

[00:10:16] Why that forgetting happens who gets to forget who is made to forget and those are the things that I've been thinking about these days.

[00:10:26] When I asked that question about how it felt in your body because I often find as a writer myself and just talking to other writers that it's the things that we feel.

[00:10:37] And I found out that in our bodies that will often send us to the page to release it in some sort of way and so I was wondering if you ever notice that kind of correlation in your work.

[00:10:48] I think for me, some of that happened the other way around but had the same effects.

[00:10:54] For me as I was writing, I found myself having to revisit some memories that I just like hadn't thought about in a really long time.

[00:11:05] And for me to really be able to write about them, I had to almost like refill them.

[00:11:11] I had to like really like sit in that moment and like let the feeling sort of like come to me.

[00:11:17] And a lot of them are feelings that I had suppressed but in the process of writing, I had to really sit in those feelings and kind of like move through those feelings and looking at sort of like who I am now and the ways in which I could let go of some of those things by putting them on a page by not forgetting in some sense.

[00:11:40] Like writing is an act of archiving and it's an act of refusing to forget. And so in some ways, it felt like I could do that but also sort of like loosen those memories inside me. Does that answer your question.

[00:11:58] Because that makes perfect sense because that was going to be another question that I had is because talk about the necessity of forgetting how you were to feeling in certain moments and yet you wrote a memoir.

[00:12:12] It requires you to remember and to not only remember but to feel and relive those moments in real time to put the words down now with the perspective that you have on it from where you are in your life now to looking back at your past.

[00:12:28] And so all that to say when did you decide that you know responding to things in the world through a say and you know reported essays with statistics was not enough and you had to tell your personal story.

[00:12:43] Honestly, my agent knew before I did that I was going to write a book which honestly like I like think back at that and laugh so hard because she contacted me because she had read a few of the essays that I was writing.

[00:13:00] And a lot of the essays that I was writing had a lot of personal stories and so they had these sort of like memoir elements and she was like cool you should write a book and I was like, haha absolutely not you know the longest thing I've ever written is 2000 words and that felt like a lot.

[00:13:20] Yeah, 80,000 words later.

[00:13:24] No, but really.

[00:13:26] So yeah, she was like you should write a book let's write a proposal and like let's put it out into the world and I was like nah yeah I was like I'm flattered but I don't think so.

[00:13:38] And then I applied to this mentorship called the queer arts mentorship where you get paired with a mentor who's sort of like further along in their career than you are.

[00:13:48] And you get to work on a project together for a year and I was so lucky to be paired with Naomi Jackson who is a fiction writer and is like absolutely brilliant and so I was working with her and I had this idea for this essay that I wanted to write.

[00:14:06] And it was just so helpful because for a year she was basically like cool let's come up with some sort of like deadlines and gold and let's like let's let's write and she was willing to read everything that I was writing.

[00:14:20] And so I wrote one essay in the book it's the essay about Hager and it's interesting because she wasn't the one who was like cool this is a bigger project.

[00:14:33] It was me but she definitely did like a lot of sort of like nudging and being like you can do this.

[00:14:39] And once I wrote that essay, I found that I had so much mortar right in the same style and the style specifically is using stories about figures in the Quran as anchors to really think through my own life.

[00:14:56] And once I wrote one essay, I found that there were so many other essays that were in me because in some ways I had been thinking about these sort of like parallels and these characters from the Quran my whole life.

[00:15:10] So yeah, so I wrote one essay and from there I found myself writing more and more and more and that year was just so phenomenal because she read everything that I wrote workshopped it with me.

[00:15:23] Basically one on one which you know is just like such an incredible experience to have and from there I started writing.

[00:15:32] And then life happened and I took like a pause for a while because the program ended and I just like it's so hard to find time and space for writing when you don't have deadlines and you have a nine to five job and others sort of like engagements.

[00:15:49] And then COVID happened and there was a shutdown and I had one of the kinds of jobs that where I couldn't work from home at all.

[00:15:59] So for two months while my work was shut down, I just like I had I saw me had time and space to write which honestly was just incredible and I don't know in what other capacity I would have had that chance.

[00:16:15] Yeah, with that time and space I was able to write the rest of the book and I emailed this agent who had written to me being like hey so I think maybe I have a manuscript for you.

[00:16:28] And she read it and was like okay let's do this.

[00:16:33] So yeah that's my story of how I wrote a memoir.

[00:16:36] First of all it's the no I'm not going to even write a book proposal with an agent to hey I actually have the whole book already done.

[00:16:48] What is not how nonfiction generally goes.

[00:16:51] So let's talk about your publication process has now the book is done.

[00:16:58] What did your agent do after they read this entire set of essays that you wrote in the COVID shutdown.

[00:17:07] Like what were the next steps?

[00:17:09] I mean so first of all she wrote back being like I thought you were going to go with me I didn't think that this is going to go anywhere but I'm so excited to read this.

[00:17:18] So that was this was that was like the best response ever.

[00:17:23] And yeah from there she had a few edits and a few suggestions and then we went out on submission, which was a little tricky to navigate because I wrote this book under pseudonym.

[00:17:38] I honestly it was me I was the one who was afraid that that would sort of like really limit the possibilities that I would have in terms of traditional publishing but my agent is just like such a badass her name is Julia cardin.

[00:17:54] But what I really loved about her was that she really sort of like champion the whole anonymity thing and she was just like we're always only going to do what you're comfortable with if anyone has a problem with the anonymity thing that's on them.

[00:18:08] And it's better to know during the submission process then to like run into something later on so she was just like so good about that.

[00:18:18] And then the book got picked up by dial press with Penguin Random House and the editor was interested in it who we ended up going with is I could not again like is someone that I could not have been luckier to find in some ways she was kind of the perfect person to edit it because she has a lot of experience with queer books and telling queer stories.

[00:18:43] And again was another big champion of the anonymity thing and so she really approached this book in ways that I find that really worked for me.

[00:18:53] She read it both on sort of like a line by line level but then also like step back and look at it in a structural way.

[00:19:01] And I feel like i'm so lucky because it felt like my editor really, really got my book and like got what I was trying to do.

[00:19:10] And so I actually really enjoyed the editing process too which I know like when I've said this before people are learning what the fuck.

[00:19:21] But like how cool to have someone who knows their shit around storytelling to look at your work and like and read it in a way to make it better you know it was really incredible yeah and then the book went out into the world and it was so many feelings I felt all of them in my body you know when you're writing a book it's just like such a solitary endeavor you know you're at your computer.

[00:19:49] At like you know a desk or a coffee shop or whatever and it's just you in the page and then you put it out in the world and people read it and suddenly you know know all these things about you.

[00:20:00] And I can certainly help a really private person which is really ironic because I wrote a memoir yes but that's what the process has been like yeah and now here we are.

[00:20:15] Yeah so since you brought us through that entire story I know i'm glad to hear about your editing process i'm in the midst of edits right now and it's just making me dig deeper and put the puzzle pieces together the parts that are in my mind and not that are not on the page.

[00:20:33] So since yours is completely done can you read a little bit from it so then we can talk about your memoir some more absolutely.

[00:20:42] Lamia's book Hijab butch blues is a retelling of stories from the Quran through the narrative of a queer brown immigrant exploring figures like modium moussa in unis.

[00:20:54] Lamia finds the parallels between themselves and the prophets that help them be honest about their devotion to Islam while also taking pride in being queer.

[00:21:04] Here's Lamia.

[00:21:06] So the chapter that i'm reading from is actually the first chapter and it's called medium which is the Islamic slash baronic name for the virgin Mary.

[00:21:16] And in this chapter i'm talking about being 14 and coming across medium story for the first time the part of the story when.

[00:21:27] The medium is giving birth to isa slash jesus and is in the middle of labor and is sort of like screaming and in pain and yelling to God that she wishes she had died so that's that's where i'll pick up.

[00:21:42] The week after reading about medium wanting to die I look forward to the next baron class i'm jittery as a time approaches an eager to start walking to the language lab.

[00:21:54] As usual my class of 22 girls widows down to a little more than half as we wind our way through the school building to the annex on the other side of campus.

[00:22:04] The other girls are unharried when we get there they take their time choosing seats and chattering and settling but i'm fast notebook out pen out headphones on ready to start the lesson i'm jumping hyper aware of everyone and everything anxious and being transparent that everyone can tell that i'm craving the news.

[00:22:23] I'm craving the next installment of the story of medium that i'm leaning in so as to not miss a word that i'm grasping it everything i can learn about this woman who complains to God and wants to die.

[00:22:36] But today is a review lesson look our on teacher tells us to prep for our midterm the week after i'm devastated i'll have to wait an entire week to know what happens next while we recap the 30 or so versus we've already read.

[00:22:50] And review the recitation the hard words and the English translation for our upcoming test someone in the front row starts reading the beginning of the suda allowed and i say slip into my usual half listening mode.

[00:23:04] I nudge my best friend sitting next to me and asked to borrow her multicolored pens redoedling then someone reads a translation of these verses allowed and mention in the book the story of medium when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east.

[00:23:19] And she took in seclusion from them a screen then we sent to her are angel and he represented himself to her as a well proportioned man she said indeed i seek refuge in the most merciful from you so leave me if you should be fearing of Allah.

[00:23:35] He said i'm only the messenger of your Lord to give you news of a pure boy isa she said how can I have a boy while no man has touched me.

[00:23:46] I stop stop doodling stop calculating how many minutes till the end of class stop thinking about the bag of chips in my backpack stop breathing for a second my body caught in a moment of clarity that shoots through me and suspense my thoughts.

[00:24:01] Suddenly my arm raises of its own accord and before i'm aware of making any conscious decision i'm speaking my voice higher than usual and breathless miss miss did medium say that no man has touched her because she didn't like men.

[00:24:17] There is a pause two seconds of shocked silence before my classmates break into titters some role their eyes this sounds a lot like one of my infamous questions that derailed the class and some of my classmates are annoyed that i've interrupted there get out of jail free summary of the classes they skipped and the things they need to know for the midterm.

[00:24:39] But i'm grateful so grateful for the tithering it conceals my earnestness i'm grateful for my earlier antics that i get to play off this question as a moment of clowning instead of a sincere burning desire for an answer.

[00:24:55] I need to know is this a thing are there other women like me who don't like men who would tell a handsome well proportioned man angel who appeared before them to go away who have never been touched by men who don't want to be touched by men.

[00:25:10] No more on teacher a matron lady Sudanese woman in her 60s who has always been kind to me doesn't seem to read anything into my question and mercifully she does not skip a beat in her answer no she says it's because many of her takwa she had got consciousness in its highest state of being it's because many of us pious and loved and feared God.

[00:25:33] She knew that the divine was watching her, even if no one else was around knew that the presence of God was everywhere, even if she couldn't see God many of them didn't want the privacy of her situation to tempt her into doing something with this beautiful man something God wouldn't be happy with.

[00:25:49] Isn't that an excellent lesson to learn girls don't ever forget that God is watching when you're around boys God is always watching when you're alone with a boy God is watching if it's just the two of you somewhere then God is the third remember medium girls medium turned to God she asked the man to go away because she had to come.

[00:26:09] But I know I know differently.

[00:26:12] Madam is a dike or maybe she isn't who knows dike isn't even part of my vocabulary at 14 and maybe I'm reading too much into the story these few lines of the text that's been around for 1400 years but what I do know is this medium is something somehow like me I feel different that day after her on class relieved at first after the embarrassment dies down after I'm done playing off the question as intentional.

[00:26:39] After I'm done receiving high fives in the hallways from my classmates for my joke i'm relieved that no one has caught on and I'm relieved that I'm not the only one like this and after this relief consolation there are other women like me in the Quran women who are uninterested in men who are born wrong living lives that are entirely out of their control women who rage rage to God no less about wanting to die.

[00:27:05] Thank you so you started this part one before the section that you read you start with saying I am 14 the year that I want to die and then that chapter about your revelation about modium ends with you I am 14 the year I read serum are you I choose not to die the year I choose to live so.

[00:27:30] Coming from a place that may have been so dark that you were considering suicide but actively trying to shrink from life and then deciding after finding someone you could relate to in the Quran.

[00:27:47] And that maybe life was worth living what were your next steps in terms of continuing to grow and as a teen knowing that you were in this deeply religious faith and that you were different because of your identity and how you chose to sexually identify.

[00:28:11] You know it's interesting to feel that switch from wanting to disappear and wanting to not live to the curiosity that comes with wanting to live and wanting to know what happens next and for me part of that was just seeing myself and seeing that it was possible to be a person that had feelings like me and still live.

[00:28:38] I find the story of my to be so powerful not just because of you know this sort of like raging to God but also because just she went through so much in terms of being born wrong.

[00:28:53] Before she was born while her mom was pregnant everyone was convinced that she was going to be a boy and so she was sort of like promised to the mosque and then she was born a girl and there's this whole story in the Quran where like everyone is like wait like what but yeah but that sort of like sense and.

[00:29:08] Being born wrong I feel like I identify with so much and it wasn't until I saw that in the stories around me that I could really sort of like work to disentangle some of that and disentangle that from not wanting to live.

[00:29:24] So in terms of sort of like what happened next for me I think what happened next was most security are there other people in this world like me.

[00:29:35] What does this mean for how I want my life to look like, what will my day-to-day be like, who will love me, who will take care of me and who will I love and who will I take care of and I think it really shifted for me this way in which life was supposed to play out.

[00:29:53] Growing up it felt that there was a sort of like path that's written for you and I was just supposed to continue on in that path but reading about many of them it made me feel like that was not the path that I wanted to take and how do I go about not doing that.

[00:30:09] In addition to Mariam you look at several other profits and figures that are both in the Quran and in the Bible and really use their experiences to interrogate your own.

[00:30:23] And I don't know if you've ever been asked this question I'm sure you have but I feel like it would be so easy to let go of religion and faith.

[00:30:38] In faith in the name of self acceptance and yet you've done the opposite and clung closer to it to really try to understand not only the faith that you were raised in but how you can make it work for you are not know how you can find yourself in it.

[00:30:55] And I wonder why that was important to you because again as I said I feel like it would have been so much easier to be like you know what I'm not Muslim anymore.

[00:31:05] I think it comes down in some sense to this idea of justice and that there is this sort of like justice that comes with imagining a world with a God in it.

[00:31:18] And because to me it feels like I don't know everyone has such different life experiences and like there are people who live lives that are so awful

[00:31:31] and then there are people who live lives that are so cushy and the unfairness of fit all and the idea that all of that dissipates into nothing feels so incredibly like depressing to me that it feels like that's not the kind of world that I want to live in.

[00:31:49] And to me this idea of like a God and like a justice at the end of it just feels really compelling and it basically gives me reason to wake up in the morning and like keep living.

[00:32:02] So I think there's a way in which it didn't feel possible for me to not be Muslim because I find these ideas so compelling.

[00:32:13] So then to me it became a question up well how do you carve out a space for yourself within this religion that I have a lot of ethical and aesthetic appreciation for.

[00:32:27] And so I think a big part of being a person in the world for me has been figuring out what parts of this beautiful thing that I want to keep and what parts I need to sort of like think about in more expansive terms.

[00:32:43] And you know it's really funny because I actually like think about this all the time in terms of queerness to and the ways in which queerness can also be sort of like very hegemonic and very like prescriptive and very like almost like a religion almost in the sense that like this is the right way to do something that was meant to be rebelling against normativity.

[00:33:07] So I feel like that's a process that I've really had to figure out how to do in terms of queerness to and in terms of taking the parts of queerness that I love deeply, the sense of community and this set and some sort of like pushing against norms and like always interrogating things and really like splitting it from the parts of it that I don't like sort of like mainstream gay culture rich gaze at pride or like someone who will stroke your hijab as you're waiting in line.

[00:33:38] So for me it's been like a really sort of like parallel experience of learning how to do that for these two things that I really love deeply.

[00:33:48] So I have to ask one more guy question before we lean into the queerness questions.

[00:33:53] You said that part of what keeps you grounded in your faith is this belief that God is just.

[00:34:00] I wonder because of the way of the world and how you've had to navigate it. Do you also believe that God is compassionate?

[00:34:08] Yeah, I do.

[00:34:11] I do but I think that the way that life plays out sometimes is not compassionate so that's a paradox but I also think that I don't know life is messy and hard and we.

[00:34:26] Grow and learn from it and I do think that God is compassionate and merciful and.

[00:34:35] Loves us.

[00:34:37] Sorry, I know it's cheesy.

[00:34:40] No, it's fine if you think if it's cheesy or not, I just think that like faith is deeply personal and yet the book that you've written yes is deeply personal but it I feel like it's even more intimate because it is.

[00:34:56] So rooted both in your faith and how you identify in the world and so exploring faith in that way opens you up to questions about faith but also to questions about your identity and how you inhabit both worlds because I think for anyone on the outside myself included it would seem too difficult.

[00:35:18] Does that make sense?

[00:35:19] What do you hear what you're saying?

[00:35:22] Yeah, to me it's felt like that difficultness has added to the beauty if that makes any sense because that difficultness has really made it so that I have to put effort into it sort of like really engaging with the world and engaging with those difficulties has been really enriching.

[00:35:49] And I think that I was really engaging with my life and I think back to myself at you know in my teens or in my 20s and I was like really dealing with a lot of like self loathing and a lot of a lot of just like criticalness of myself but now I'm able to look back at myself and feel compassion for someone who was trying to figure things out and trying to live in ways that felt true to myself.

[00:36:19] So then you talked a little bit about the sometimes rigidity and queer spaces.

[00:36:26] Do you find that it is then even difficult to be yourself in those types of spaces because you do wear hijab and because you are Muslim and because you are devout in your faith?

[00:36:39] You know it's interesting because these days I wear like a scarf that's hijab maybe about like half of the time and the other half of the time I wear like a beanie or a baseball hat or something that sort of like serves the same function but looks different.

[00:36:55] And the ways in which I get treated in a new space based on what I'm wearing is so different like I feel like this is the most cliche thing to say because it's so obvious but like there's in way there's this way in which it's so palpable.

[00:37:12] Like you can feel the ways that people interact with you based on sort of like how you present.

[00:37:20] So I think that that's that's been really interesting to know and really interesting to sort of like navigate.

[00:37:27] Thinking of young queer kids coming up now and them coming to a book like yours where you're so very honest about your youth in navigating your sexuality and your identity and your religion.

[00:37:45] What would you want them to get from what you've written?

[00:37:47] I think what I would want them to get is that no one should be telling you how to live and you should figure it out for yourself in ways that you best for you.

[00:38:02] I remember when I was younger there was so much pressure to be out in a particular way and I really had to unlearn that and really sort of like think through what worked for me and what didn't.

[00:38:16] And also I had to learn how to like push back against people who are very prescriptive and like had very strong opinions about how I should be living my life.

[00:38:24] So that's definitely one thing that I really want people to get from this book is that no one can know your truth except for you and no one can know or tell you how to live a life that feels authentic and that feels good.

[00:38:38] And then the other thing that I would want people to get from this this work especially younger folks is that it's so important to build an invest in community and in some ways it was community that really saved me and that really taught me that.

[00:38:54] I could carve out a life for myself and so yeah it's really important to find community and not just like people who are like you but sort of like intergenerational community community that is diverse in terms of race, class, age, gender, etc.

[00:39:12] Because the kind of love and the kind of intention that comes with that kind of community that I think is like really what taught me how to be a person in the world and how to really sort of like.

[00:39:24] I think that I would grow and think through what I wanted out of life.

[00:39:30] Yeah, now I want to switch to a speed round in a game before I let you go for the afternoon so what is your favorite book?

[00:39:40] Oh my god but I have so many.

[00:39:44] I recently read yellow face and I really really loved it.

[00:39:47] Okay who is your favorite author?

[00:39:49] I have to say Audrey Lorde because she changed how I think about writing.

[00:39:55] Who is your favorite prophet in the Quran?

[00:39:58] Definitely medium.

[00:40:00] What is your favorite TV show?

[00:40:03] I really like Res Dogs and watching that right now and I think it's so so brilliant.

[00:40:09] If money were no option where would you go, where would you live and what would you do?

[00:40:13] I would go to Fiji.

[00:40:17] I've always wanted to go.

[00:40:19] Where would I live?

[00:40:20] I think they would still live in New York.

[00:40:22] I think it's the best city in the world and I think that there's just like like the globalness of the city is just like unmatched.

[00:40:31] And I would quit my job and travel.

[00:40:36] Name three things on your bucket list.

[00:40:39] Okay.

[00:40:40] I'm on a bike across the country, learn Spanish and Radamarathon.

[00:40:50] That's very ambitious.

[00:40:51] I love it for you though.

[00:40:53] What brings you joy?

[00:40:55] Ice cream definitely ice cream is so joyous.

[00:40:59] It is what brings you peace.

[00:41:02] You know that feeling when you've done something for yourself that's hard to do but you made yourself do it.

[00:41:10] That makes me feel really really good and peaceful.

[00:41:14] So I guess like in a way taking care of yourself.

[00:41:18] And then if you were a color, what color would you be and why?

[00:41:22] Maybe dark blue because that is a color of most of my clothes and my closet.

[00:41:27] I think it's like aspirational.

[00:41:29] It's a really cool mixture of sort of like mysterious but also like calming.

[00:41:34] Right.

[00:41:36] So our game is called rewriting the classics and classic is however you define it.

[00:41:40] So name one book you wished you would have written.

[00:41:44] Oh wow.

[00:41:46] Alison Bechtel's fun home because that would mean that I can also draw.

[00:41:52] Name one book where you want to change the ending and why?

[00:41:57] Ooh, white teeth by Zadie Smith.

[00:42:01] Because it's one of the books that like really changed how I think about writing people of color but I just find the ending really underwhelming.

[00:42:11] So I would change that ending.

[00:42:13] And then name a book that you think is overrated or overtaught and why?

[00:42:19] Ooh, catcher in the right.

[00:42:22] White boy angst.

[00:42:24] Cool.

[00:42:25] Yeah, I mean, I know that's a thing but yeah.

[00:42:29] A lot of people say catcher in the right.

[00:42:32] Yes.

[00:42:34] It's hilarious.

[00:42:36] All right. So my final question for you today is when you are dead and gone, what would you like someone to write about the legacy of words and work that you've left behind?

[00:42:46] Oh, I think I want to be remembered as confusing and mysterious.

[00:42:52] So maybe writing a memoir was not the best idea but that's definitely what I'm going for.

[00:43:00] I'm confusing and mysterious.

[00:43:02] Big thank you to Lamia H for being here today on Black and Published.

[00:43:06] Make sure you take out Lamia's memoir, hijab butch blues, out now from the dial press.

[00:43:13] And if you're not following Lamia check them out on the socials.

[00:43:17] They're at Lamia is angry on Instagram and Twitter and Lamia is spelled L-A-M-Y-A.

[00:43:27] That's our show for the week.

[00:43:29] If you liked this episode and want more Black and Published, head to our Instagram page.

[00:43:35] It's at Black and Published and that's B-L-K and Published.

[00:43:41] There, I've posted a bonus clip for my interview with Lamia about code switching with their hijab.

[00:43:47] Make sure you check it out and let me know what you think in the comments.

[00:43:52] I'll highlight y'all next week when our guests will be Gin Baker, author of the YA novel, Forgive Me Not.

[00:43:59] If you are in a space where you have a number, if you are in a space where you were reminded everything you did,

[00:44:05] if you are in a space that is decrepit, if you are in a space where they don't give you good food.

[00:44:10] If you are in a space where you are isolated, if you are in a space where you can't move freely.

[00:44:16] Your freedoms are being taken so much.

[00:44:19] How do you expect people to act?

[00:44:22] Well, you're taking something from them rather than being like, well, what do you need?

[00:44:26] That's next week on Black and Published.

[00:44:29] I'll talk to you then.

[00:44:31] Peace.

[00:44:34] Peace.