In this episode, New York Times Bestselling author Tomi Adeyemi and actress Zai Silla delve into a rich conversation about Children of Anguish and Anarchy, the final installment in the Legacy of Orisha trilogy. They discuss the emotional depths of Tomi's characters, the influence of African mythology, and the personal experiences that shape her storytelling. Tomi also shares insights on the challenges and triumphs of writing through trauma, the significance of communal grief, and the transformative power of literature. The discussion finally touches on the expanding universe of the series, the upcoming movie adaptation, and the musical inspirations that complement her narratives.
Mentioned in this episode:
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00:00:00
Welcome to the Mahogany Books Podcast
Network, your gateway to the world
00:00:04
of African American literature.
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Immerse yourself in podcasts like Black
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00:00:21
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00:00:46
How y'all feeling?
00:00:47
How
00:00:51
are you all feeling?
00:00:55
I am so pumped.
00:00:56
Let me calm down.
00:00:57
First of all, let me calm down.
00:00:58
I am so pumped up for a number of reasons.
00:01:02
And I wrote my script down so I
won't forget anything because it is
00:01:04
important to me to read what some
of these, both, um, both of these
00:01:09
young ladies have accomplished.
00:01:10
But first, as she mentioned, I am
Ramunda Lark Young, co owner of Mahogany
00:01:15
Books with my amazing husband, Derek
Young, somewhere out here, somewhere.
00:01:18
Yes, I see you.
00:01:20
Yes.
00:01:21
Yes, yes.
00:01:23
We just celebrated our
22nd wedding anniversary.
00:01:26
Yes, yes.
00:01:30
22 years married and 17 years in
business making black books accessible.
00:01:36
That's what we're doing.
00:01:38
Yes, yes, yes.
00:01:41
Just a little bit about us.
00:01:42
It has, we've been working for 17 years.
00:01:44
We started in our one bedroom
apartment in Alexandria, Virginia.
00:01:47
But we wanted people to have access to
black books no matter where they lived.
00:01:50
We didn't want to leave that to
chance for somebody else to decide.
00:01:53
That's what we're doing.
00:01:54
So Mahogany Books was born.
00:01:55
We have a location at National
Harbor, one in Anacostia, and a
00:01:58
little footprint in National Airport.
00:02:00
So this is something very serious to us.
00:02:02
And when we look at the audience and
see all of your faces that show up
00:02:06
time and time again for these moments,
these pieces of community that bring us
00:02:10
together, We don't take that lightly.
00:02:11
So please give yourself
a round of applause.
00:02:13
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
00:02:18
Really quickly.
00:02:18
I want to give a big shout out to our
venue host, the amazing DC Public Library.
00:02:22
Please help.
00:02:23
Yes.
00:02:24
Clap it up for them.
00:02:25
Yes.
00:02:27
And then additionally, really quickly,
the DC Public Library Foundation,
00:02:30
which I'm a proud board member,
helped to provide some of the books
00:02:34
for tonight's audience members.
00:02:35
DC Public Library Foundation.
00:02:38
Yes, yes, yes.
00:02:40
And then lastly, before I introduce
our, our amazing, uh, moderator, if
00:02:44
you're taking photos, please tag us.
00:02:46
Please tag Tomi, please tag
Zai, please tag Mahogany Books.
00:02:50
Those pictures mean so
much to so many people.
00:02:53
Us and other people who, who wished they
could have been here, but y'all got the
00:02:56
best seats in the house, I'm just saying.
00:02:58
But take pictures.
00:02:58
Um, so anyway, let's get into it.
00:03:00
Zai Silla, celebrating black stories
across film and fiction, literature,
00:03:05
literature, Zai, an accomplished
actress and creator, is on a
00:03:09
mission to amplify black narratives.
00:03:12
Under the platform name, Zai Rambles, she
weaves magic across screens and pages.
00:03:17
From reaching millions with her African
mythology recommendations, to championing
00:03:21
black characters in anime and Netflix,
Zai is a force to be reckoned with.
00:03:26
Inspired by Issa Rae's mantra, she's
rooting for everybody black, yes,
00:03:33
recently she starred in The Kitchen.
00:03:36
Her presence at the NAACP Image
Awards and the BAFTA Ceremonies
00:03:40
added to her illustrious journey.
00:03:42
Y'all, please help me welcome to the stage
our Dope Conversation host, Xy Scylla!
00:03:49
Hey!
00:03:51
Yes!
00:03:53
Hey!
00:03:54
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:03:57
Hello!
00:03:57
Hey!
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Yes!
00:04:00
Right?
00:04:01
Yes, give it up!
00:04:03
So let's, okay, everybody pause.
00:04:05
Calm down, calm down.
00:04:07
Let's get into it.
00:04:08
We are here for our featured
author this evening.
00:04:11
She was named one of Time Magazine's 100
Most Influential People, Tomi Adeyemi.
00:04:16
She is a Hugo and Nebula award
winning Nigerian American writer and
00:04:20
storyteller, yes, based in New York.
00:04:23
After graduating from Harvard University,
00:04:28
y'all didn't hear me say that, from
Harvard University, With honors and
00:04:31
a degree in English literature, she
also studied West African mythology,
00:04:35
religion, and culture in Salvador, Brazil.
00:04:38
Her first novel, everybody
knows what the first novel is.
00:04:41
Who knows what the, let me
hear you on the count of three.
00:04:43
One, two, three.
00:04:47
Yes.
00:04:47
Okay.
00:04:48
We're in the right building.
00:04:49
Yes.
00:04:50
Her first novel Children of Blood
and Bone debuted at number one on
00:04:53
the New York Times bestsellers list.
00:04:55
It's highly anticipated sequel
Children of Virtue and Vengeance
00:04:59
also debuted at number one on
the New York Times bestsellers.
00:05:01
Tomi's Legacy of Orisha Trilogy,
um, is being developed into a
00:05:07
feature film by Paramount Pictures
with Gina Prince Bythewood.
00:05:10
Yes!
00:05:12
Yes!
00:05:13
That deserves its own space.
00:05:15
Yes!
00:05:17
Um, Tomi was also named to Forbes 30
under 30 in media and her website was
00:05:22
named one of the 101 best websites
for writers by Writers Digest.
00:05:26
Please, y'all, put your hands together.
00:05:29
And help me welcome to the
stage, my girl, Tomi Adeyemi.
00:05:32
Oh my Wow, you guys!
00:06:18
Oh, I already, I was sitting back, or
like, I was backstage right before this
00:06:22
and I was like, oh, please get a tissue.
00:06:24
Um, I didn't think I was
going to cry tonight because I
00:06:28
cried mostly all of yesterday.
00:06:31
But you guys, like
00:06:36
I love you.
00:06:43
Thank you for being here.
00:06:45
Thank you for being here right now.
00:06:46
Thank you for celebrating the end of
this trilogy and this journey and I just
00:06:52
can't wait to like meet you and talk
to you and I honestly I want to have as
00:06:57
much time for your questions as possible.
00:06:59
So Zai, I'm kicking it off.
00:07:02
I'm kicking it off to you.
00:07:04
I got it.
00:07:05
I got it.
00:07:06
I got it.
00:07:07
Thank you so much for being here.
00:07:09
This is, this is incredible.
00:07:10
I like the energy in the room.
00:07:12
Like you, like you carry on.
00:07:19
You know, like little, little fun story
to kind of start of this has been a
00:07:24
long time in the making, you know.
00:07:26
I messaged homie back in 2021.
00:07:29
Literally, I was just like, um,
Hey, I just, I would love to just
00:07:33
like jump on a zoom with you.
00:07:35
Talk with my favorite author.
00:07:37
She replied, she was like, yes,
we're going to do an interview.
00:07:41
You're going to be like
Rihanna and Beyonce.
00:07:43
And I was like, um, yeah,
yeah, let's, let's do it.
00:07:48
And uh, three years, here we are.
00:07:50
Here we are.
00:07:53
Here we are.
00:07:54
And I honestly, I still don't
know what it is about Zai that
00:07:58
made me like, reply that way.
00:07:59
Like, I didn't even read her,
what she sent to me correctly.
00:08:03
I was like, Oh my gosh, this
cute little poet in London,
00:08:06
like we should do something.
00:08:08
We should do it.
00:08:08
Let's do it.
00:08:09
And then I just, For years, I
couldn't get her out of my mind.
00:08:14
And like, we joke about this at my
publisher because I'm like, Yes, Kris
00:08:18
Jenner works hard, but Zy Rambles
works even harder, so I just want
00:08:24
to give a, a snap for your hustle
because you really make things happen.
00:08:30
Thank you.
00:08:30
Okay.
00:08:31
You're the one who's
supposed to cry, not me.
00:08:34
Um, okay.
00:08:35
So we've been waiting for
this book a while and I so
00:08:38
appreciate you bringing it out.
00:08:41
I know you felt this.
00:08:42
I see you and I appreciate you.
00:08:46
Great things comes with patience though.
00:08:49
Let me tell you, this
book is packing a bunch.
00:08:51
And if you thought that the world
she was introducing us to in book
00:08:56
one and book two was already amazing.
00:08:58
Book three is like completely different.
00:09:01
And the, the elements that
you actually introduced to me,
00:09:05
introduced like new elements of
like cultures and stuff like that.
00:09:10
Why, why does elements, you know?
00:09:12
Yeah, I, going into this series, I
knew what the conflict of book one,
00:09:19
two, and three was going to be.
00:09:20
Just for a show of hands, how
many people have read book two?
00:09:24
Oh, yes.
00:09:27
Sorry.
00:09:28
I'm so sorry.
00:09:29
I'm not trying to swear at all.
00:09:30
I didn't swear.
00:09:32
You beautiful young children.
00:09:33
I did not swear.
00:09:34
You heard nothing.
00:09:35
You are angels.
00:09:37
I'm so sorry, mom and dad.
00:09:38
I'm so sorry.
00:09:38
Um, I'm not swearing.
00:09:41
Um, okay, so we can just talk.
00:09:45
Those hands went up so fast.
00:09:47
I think, okay.
00:09:48
I want to give not a disclaimer because
I kind of don't believe in disclaimers.
00:09:51
Okay.
00:09:53
Like a very, you, how many people, okay,
let's just keep doing how many people.
00:09:58
How many people have had like a
very magical, mystical black woman
00:10:03
just come into your life and like,
kind of speak a little prophecy
00:10:06
into you and then walk away?
00:10:10
I love it.
00:10:11
I love it.
00:10:11
Ooh, I can't wait to hear yours.
00:10:13
See, these are, you guys,
I'm adopting you now.
00:10:16
So, last week, a woman called me.
00:10:22
And she was like, your world is
so much bigger than you realize.
00:10:28
And she was explaining to me, she's like,
you know, this has been like a seven year
00:10:33
journey, and if you, someone, someone who
is my everything, and I, I kind of tell
00:10:41
her this every day, like, with a different
cat meme, um, But it's literally,
00:10:47
like, one of the reasons I am here.
00:10:50
And this is why I needed tissues.
00:10:52
Um, she told me that this isn't just
finishing a series, this is kind of
00:10:59
saying goodbye to the girl who had the
dream of doing something like this.
00:11:04
Um, so that girl's been with me
for half my life, and I've been
00:11:08
writing since I was this tall.
00:11:11
So All of these things are wrapped
in this, and when this woman
00:11:16
told me that your world is so
much bigger than you realize.
00:11:21
She's like, you've been, you've
been in this creative world.
00:11:24
You've been in Orisha.
00:11:26
You've been with like the
gods and Xaeli and Zayn.
00:11:29
And then I was like, yeah.
00:11:30
And then I think about my world and
it's me and a laptop and a bunch
00:11:34
of post it notes in a dark room.
00:11:36
Like that's the, that's
the cave I've been in.
00:11:39
And like, I know you're like,
but girl, I see your Instagram.
00:11:42
It's like, yes, if I'm going to leave
the cave, I'm going to show out.
00:11:45
Like, you know, you got me outside.
00:11:49
Like let's make a lasting impression.
00:11:51
Cause I'm not coming back for five
years, but it's like, I spend a lot
00:11:57
of time in the dark alone with my
laptop and a bunch of post it notes.
00:12:02
And so nearly a decade of that.
00:12:04
And so I come into a room like
this and my heart and mind doesn't
00:12:10
know what to do with the fact
that you guys read these stories.
00:12:16
It's, um, I know you're like, Girl,
duh, but I'm like, really, it's
00:12:23
just like, um, the human element
of it is really getting to me, uh,
00:12:29
the co, the communal aspect of it.
00:12:32
I think I've been focusing on, okay,
yes, we'll really see and feel the
00:12:37
community when we're all in one theater
and we're watching Xaeli's journey,
00:12:42
but like, for me, this is my theater.
00:12:45
Um, and I'm like, Oh, these are
all these people on my journey.
00:12:48
Ooh, we're not swearing.
00:12:50
So we're just crying.
00:12:53
We're not swearing.
00:12:54
So it's, um, it is so meaningful, uh,
and tender and precious to my heart.
00:13:03
I feel like I have Patrick
Ta's like on till dawn spray.
00:13:07
So like the makeup
should last through this.
00:13:11
We'll see.
00:13:12
Um.
00:13:13
It's, it's, it's so precious to my heart
to look at this room and see all of you
00:13:19
here and yeah, it's not a disclaimer.
00:13:23
I think it's just like I, I, I think I
just want to share where I am right now in
00:13:27
this moment so that we can take this next
like hour we have together and I don't
00:13:36
know, just create and do crazy things.
00:13:38
Like I keep asking them, I was
like, can you just start the event
00:13:41
playing Nuck if you buck because
then I won't have a chance to cry.
00:13:46
So we might just stop in the middle
and do that, but for now I think
00:13:51
we'll, we'll return to whatever
the question might've been.
00:13:56
Yeah, what was the question?
00:13:58
I'm just going to let you flow.
00:13:59
I'm going to let you flow.
00:14:01
I kind of want to add to that.
00:14:03
Like.
00:14:03
Okay.
00:14:04
How many people in this room?
00:14:05
Okay.
00:14:06
Cause I know children are blown changed
my life and continues to change my life.
00:14:09
You know that I want to know
how many people in the room
00:14:13
like children has changed.
00:14:15
Your life has made you look
at the world differently.
00:14:19
You expanded, you connected to
a culture other than your own.
00:14:23
See lift your head, lift
your head, lift your head.
00:14:27
Come on, come on.
00:14:28
Okay.
00:14:29
So this is, We understand.
00:14:32
We understand.
00:14:32
We're here.
00:14:33
We see you and we celebrate you today.
00:14:36
Thank you.
00:14:38
Thank you.
00:14:41
Um, the question was,
00:14:47
you're introducing new elements
and new cultures in the final book.
00:14:53
You know, like first we had
like West African mythology.
00:14:56
Now, We're having a whole new villain
from a whole new culture and an ally from
00:15:01
a whole new culture as well, you know.
00:15:05
Like, Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
00:15:09
No, this is on the back of the book.
00:15:10
This is on the back of the book.
00:15:11
Yeah, this isn't a spoiler.
00:15:15
I'm like, this is all the promo material.
00:15:19
There shall be no spoilers here.
00:15:21
I would never do that to you.
00:15:23
There's no spoilers.
00:15:23
Um, well, okay.
00:15:26
We'll just say the world is expanding.
00:15:28
The reason that is happening is it's
I would say it's maybe two fold.
00:15:35
So one fold is sort of the
objective, meaning it doesn't change.
00:15:41
Cause when I started the series, or
no, when I started to see that this
00:15:47
series could sell to a publisher and
I might get to write three books.
00:15:51
Um, because prior to that I'd spent
about four and a half years writing a
00:15:56
young adult fantasy and that fantasy
got 63 rejections from literary agents.
00:16:02
Yeah, and like I remember like I was
like, ooh, I was I was planning out that
00:16:07
entire storyline I was like and then and
then in book three that she's gonna open
00:16:13
the gates of hell and like, you know Like
I was really I was getting in it cuz I
00:16:17
was like and this is what it means to
be a writer and I'm gonna Know so many
00:16:20
things and then I'm like, oh no one's
gonna read book one So I changed the way
00:16:25
I thought about writing and publishing.
00:16:27
And I was like, I'm going to
give everything to one book.
00:16:30
I planned five books I was going to write.
00:16:32
Um, and I was like, and then
if someone pays me, I'll
00:16:34
figure out what happens next.
00:16:36
And when I was like, Ooh, I
think someone might pay you girl.
00:16:39
So I was like, what's
going to happen next?
00:16:42
I knew in book two, it would be like,
okay, it was a fight to bring magic back.
00:16:48
Now it's I'd still want to be spoiler
alert, even though you guys like all rose
00:16:53
your hand, but I want to be really safe.
00:16:55
Oh my God.
00:16:55
I got like soft tissues, soft life.
00:16:59
Okay.
00:16:59
So thank you.
00:17:00
Thank you very much.
00:17:03
I knew it would be a battle for
power, for control over the kingdom.
00:17:09
Um, because I think I think in, when,
in the real world that we live in and
00:17:16
we have to share and face and see every
day, it's like, when I started this
00:17:21
series, I was like, if we could just fix
police brutality, everything is alright.
00:17:26
Everything will be perfect.
00:17:28
Let's just focus on this problem.
00:17:31
And then, fast forward, six years.
00:17:35
And it's like, cool.
00:17:37
So if we could just fix that world
crisis and also keep fixing this
00:17:43
problem we haven't fixed and also maybe
have Sabah Tahir run for president.
00:17:49
And also it's just like, we
have, there's no one solution.
00:17:56
Like life is very, uh, It's, it's,
I don't want to say messy and
00:18:02
complicated, but I don't know about you.
00:18:04
I think I grew up with a, let's fix
it, it's a perfectionist mindset.
00:18:09
It's like we can think our way out of
this, we can grind our way out of this.
00:18:13
And I think the older I've gotten,
the more I've realized like, oh, this
00:18:17
life is, is actually an ecosystem.
00:18:21
And I don't necessarily have the
answers to what to do in an ecosystem,
00:18:25
but seeing it more as an ecosystem
as opposed to like, what's that
00:18:29
game where you have to whack a mole?
00:18:32
I think it was like, oh, if I could just
whack this mole, we live in a utopia.
00:18:36
If I could just whack this mole,
things will be great for America.
00:18:39
If I could just get every kid, like,
education and this thing, things
00:18:43
would, like, I used to think like that.
00:18:45
And then Now I'm seeing like Hungry Hungry
Hippo, it's like you just, you can't.
00:18:50
And I'm also like, not a politician,
but still, it's just like, I imagine
00:18:55
the people in this room also think
about these things and it's weighing on
00:18:59
your hearts and your mind and not just
what's happening in our community, but
00:19:03
what's happening in the world because
we're also more connected than ever.
00:19:07
And so, You know, you go from seeing a
body roll on TikTok to seeing like one
00:19:13
of the most horrific things you could
ever possibly imagine and, and then
00:19:17
you have to go get on a Zoom meeting.
00:19:19
It's like we're in a very weird space and
it's not a space that's existed before.
00:19:24
So I knew book two would be a conflict
of like, Zaley thought all she
00:19:29
had to do was bring magic back and
think, and things would be right.
00:19:33
But the only, the deeper reason she
wanted to bring magic back was so she
00:19:38
would have enough power to protect her
father because she had never healed from
00:19:42
the pain of losing her mother and she's
like, I will not heal if I lose my father.
00:19:46
So if I have magic, I can keep him safe.
00:19:50
And then at the end of book one,
it's like, it is literally his loss
00:19:54
that allows her to bring magic back.
00:19:57
So she starts book two completely
broken, completely disillusioned.
00:20:03
Um, and I, I don't know about you,
I can raise my hand, I don't, let's,
00:20:07
I like this raise hand like sort of
kindergarten vibe we got going on.
00:20:12
Raise your hand if you have
been completely disillusioned
00:20:14
with life between now and 2018.
00:20:22
And it's hard.
00:20:24
I don't know what to do with that.
00:20:26
I don't know what to do with that.
00:20:28
Um, but that's what the,
the trouble is in book two.
00:20:32
And something I saw in book three, I
always knew there was going to be a
00:20:35
bigger enemy that they had to face.
00:20:38
But when I started writing book
three in 2020, I felt like I was
00:20:42
watching my country tear itself apart.
00:20:45
Um, and at the time I was
living in San Diego, so I also
00:20:49
was around a lot of veterans.
00:20:51
And that was a very interesting
perspective for me because they've seen
00:20:55
the world from a militaristic standpoint.
00:20:58
Um, and I just very much felt like we,
if we tear ourselves apart, if we tear
00:21:02
ourselves apart, we won't be here anymore.
00:21:04
And I don't want to be one
of those alarmist on TikTok.
00:21:07
That's like, we're in the
fourth turning right now.
00:21:09
You have to move to that.
00:21:10
I was like, okay, let's stop it.
00:21:14
Like, so go back to the body rolls.
00:21:15
But it's like, I just felt that
and I wanted to write, I wanted to
00:21:22
use Orisha as like this community
that's been tearing itself apart.
00:21:26
And there's someone who's been
waiting to capitalize on that.
00:21:30
Um, so, so that's the
expansion of the world.
00:21:33
And I also wanted to give a nod to
Brazil because that's where, like, I
00:21:39
used to say, I discovered the Orisha.
00:21:41
I'm like, no, that's where
the Orisha discovered me.
00:21:44
That's where I got my, like,
Spider Man spider bite.
00:21:46
And they were like, write these books.
00:21:48
And I'm like, oh, and seven years later,
I'm like, okay, please bite someone.
00:21:59
Like, thank you, but
please bite someone else.
00:22:02
Um, so, so that's why
we're in a, a new world.
00:22:06
I wanted to.
00:22:07
Forced my characters to realize like,
wow, we were, I was focused on you.
00:22:12
Meanwhile, there was someone
there watching us and just
00:22:14
waiting for the moment to strike.
00:22:16
And now we have to figure out what to do.
00:22:20
This, I love that.
00:22:21
Thank you.
00:22:22
You're welcome.
00:22:22
Thank you.
00:22:24
Uh, it makes so much more
sense when you're like weaving
00:22:27
it in like this all together.
00:22:29
Um, I also want to say there are so many
full messages throughout the whole series,
00:22:33
you know, like so many moments, like the
pressure that Zelie is facing, like in
00:22:38
book two and, You know, like her, her
and Amari kind of like are a reflection
00:22:43
of each other, like a mirror, you know.
00:22:45
Book one, Zelie is the brave one.
00:22:46
And in book two, Amari is
the brave one, you know.
00:22:50
Um, I, from like the ancestors
to like this message of peace and
00:22:55
harmony and working together, like
which one was your driving force?
00:22:59
The one that, you know,
00:23:03
I mean, I'm a militant person.
00:23:05
It's,
00:23:15
I mean, I've made peace with it, but like.
00:23:19
I was explaining to someone yesterday,
like, the funniest thing over the years
00:23:23
has been, like, seeing you guys be
like, I'm so mad at Amari, I hate her!
00:23:27
And like, and this, and I'm like, oh,
this is helping me see where you might be
00:23:32
like a little divergent in your thinking,
because I'm like, I, I would do it again.
00:23:36
Like, that's,
00:23:40
I'm like, this is my kingdom,
and these people are in my way.
00:23:42
So, um, um.
00:23:46
Not that America needs a queen, but
if we need, if we wanted one, like
00:23:50
anyway, anyway, anyway, let's focus.
00:23:54
Let's not start a new Republic.
00:23:58
Three mahogany books.
00:23:59
Anyway, these are kind of my dreams.
00:24:02
So I would say, I don't
want to say that like peace.
00:24:08
I am an Aquarian moon, you know?
00:24:11
And I think.
00:24:13
I love my Aquarians, especially sons.
00:24:15
All of my Aquarius sons have been
like coming into my life lately.
00:24:18
Um, and if one of you is psychic
and can tell me why, please do.
00:24:23
I'm not joking.
00:24:23
Okay.
00:24:24
Um, As an Aquarius son, deeply
empathetic, I think Aquarians are
00:24:30
the humanitarians of the Zodiac.
00:24:32
So they are striving.
00:24:33
Yes, you're like, humanity, peace.
00:24:36
Um, but I'm a Scorpio rising.
00:24:41
Um, and Scorpios are like
the, that girl from the ring.
00:24:48
Of the Zodiac.
00:24:54
So you're like, is it P?
00:24:56
And this is why I love Xi.
00:24:58
Xi literally radiates love.
00:24:59
And I'm like, yes, war,
passion, my people, love.
00:25:05
Um, I love my people hard.
00:25:09
But I also love my people aggressively.
00:25:13
Like someone like, like kind of
like, I think actually, I think my
00:25:17
mom actually like accidentally ran
over someone with her suitcase, but
00:25:20
like I was ready to fight the man.
00:25:23
I'd be like, get out of
my mother's way, sir.
00:25:25
Um, so that's where I lean towards.
00:25:28
I do lean towards the fight.
00:25:30
I do think it's important to fight,
especially like in this world and in
00:25:35
this society where We're really, we're,
we're, we're not just socialized to
00:25:42
be meek and socialized to be grateful.
00:25:46
Um, it's like we're systemized into it.
00:25:50
It takes a lot to sit up with your
back straight and look someone
00:25:54
dead in the eye and say, no.
00:25:59
Like, I was like, put me on Mount
Rushmore just for doing that.
00:26:03
Like, and that took so long in my career,
like, it's, we're not, you have to fight.
00:26:11
And I know there's all those quotes,
like, in a world where there's no
00:26:14
justice, like, to fight is justice.
00:26:16
I know there's, there's very
poetic ways of saying it.
00:26:19
Um, but it's like, yes, at the
base level you want humanity
00:26:24
and you want respect for all.
00:26:25
So if you're not going to give it, then
it's like, yes, I'm going to fight for it.
00:26:28
If you're going to do, and
if it comes to a child.
00:26:31
I saw a mom on a TikTok the other day,
and she was like, I'm telling you boys
00:26:37
right now, stop messing with my daughter.
00:26:41
Yeah.
00:26:43
She's like, stop messing with my daughter.
00:26:46
And she's like, and the funny thing
is the teacher was sitting right here
00:26:50
and she was like, Call your mom, call
your sister, call anyone over 18,
00:26:55
and they can catch these hands, okay?
00:26:59
Stop messing with my daughter.
00:27:02
And I'm like, yes, like, because
that maternal energy is, it's real.
00:27:08
You know, especially mothers.
00:27:11
No one fights harder than a mother.
00:27:13
Like no one holds on longer than a mother.
00:27:16
I meet so many readers who have come to
this book through grief, through losing
00:27:21
a mother, through losing a father.
00:27:22
And when I get to hold them, I'm like,
you know, she's never left you, right?
00:27:26
I'm like, mothers cannot leave.
00:27:29
They literally can't.
00:27:31
They are so bound to you.
00:27:33
A mother's like, a mother's love
doesn't even bring me to tears yet
00:27:37
because I haven't experienced it.
00:27:39
I have a great mind.
00:27:41
I cannot put my mind and
heart around a mother's love.
00:27:44
Do not mess with a mother, you know,
and do not mess with a mother's kids.
00:27:50
Especially and so many of my
readers feel like my kids.
00:27:52
So I was like do not I was like it will
get cardi B It will get knock if you
00:27:58
buck Um, so it's all of that You're
like do you are you on the side of peace
00:28:04
and harmony or ancestors and i'm like
war i'm on the side of war I think we
00:28:07
should fight um I I I agree with zaylee.
00:28:12
I agree with zaylee.
00:28:14
I think we should fight.
00:28:15
Um, but you said there's shadow
sides It's Zaley and Amari are,
00:28:19
like, Amari is my shadow side.
00:28:22
So it's like, you know, in book one,
Amari has to learn to use her voice.
00:28:28
And I felt like I was
learning to use my voice.
00:28:30
Um, in book two, I don't want to say Amari
goes crazy dictator because I feel like
00:28:36
that's something we use to demean women.
00:28:38
I was like, these were
very strategic decisions.
00:28:41
And yes, in war there will be a loss of,
again, don't put like, I was like, don't
00:28:45
put me in charge of a country, but like
definitely do it and it'll be great.
00:28:49
So, and everyone will look great.
00:28:51
Anyway, I was like,
the food will be great.
00:28:53
High nutritional value.
00:28:54
Anyway.
00:28:55
Um, yeah.
00:28:57
So that's why it's like, I don't hate
my characters because actually to write
00:29:00
them, I have to be in love with them.
00:29:02
I have to really, really sit and become
each one of them and understand why
00:29:07
they're doing the things they do.
00:29:09
So yeah.
00:29:11
Okay.
00:29:11
So I do have to ask if, if
you love your characters,
00:29:20
if you love your characters,
what about the ones we lost?
00:29:24
You know, no spoilers, no spoilers, but I
do want to say like, you know, like, When
00:29:32
you kill off a character, how do you feel?
00:29:34
How do you think we're going to feel?
00:29:36
You know?
00:29:38
Let's keep her accountable!
00:29:43
I grieve too.
00:29:45
I grieve.
00:29:49
It's like, there's even a character in
book three, and I know all of you guys are
00:29:54
going to be asking about this character,
and I'm, and I have, I have an answer.
00:29:59
You'll be like, but what, and I was like,
because, and I can tell you, I grieve.
00:30:05
I grieve with you.
00:30:06
Like, I don't just do this, like,
Um, I sit at my computer and I sob
00:30:19
because I'm like this, like, we,
we lose the most beautiful souls.
00:30:30
You know, this book is a lot about grief.
00:30:34
We lose beautiful souls.
00:30:40
What?
00:30:41
What?
00:30:43
What's happening?
00:30:43
What am I doing wrong?
00:30:45
Wait, wait, if this is No, this
isn't a spoiler, this is in general.
00:30:50
This is in general.
00:30:52
Don't worry, don't worry.
00:30:53
Guys, I am spoiler free.
00:30:55
I'm professional.
00:30:56
You guys keep saying
she's spoiling everything.
00:31:01
I have told you nothing.
00:31:06
I'm not telling you anything.
00:31:09
And even if she did, I would not tell you.
00:31:12
I would leave you alone
in your bedroom to grieve.
00:31:17
Okay, I'm like at me with your tears.
00:31:19
Someone did.
00:31:21
They, they said I
finished the book at 3am.
00:31:22
I'm in bed crying.
00:31:24
And like a little bit, I'm like, yes.
00:31:25
But, but I don't write it to make you cry.
00:31:30
I don't.
00:31:30
I promise.
00:31:32
You're like, I don't believe you.
00:31:36
I don't.
00:31:37
Um, anybody that you cried over
in this book, I promise you I have
00:31:40
sobbed while writing, while editing,
because it's like, they're the angels.
00:31:45
They're the angels.
00:31:47
And it's like, when we lose angels
in real life, it's like, why?
00:31:52
Why?
00:31:53
A lot of this series started through
the grief of all the angels we lost.
00:31:57
And I'm like, okay,
all of these headlines.
00:32:00
I'm like, that's my cousin.
00:32:01
That's my brother.
00:32:02
That's my mother.
00:32:02
That's me.
00:32:04
So it's, I think to re life, I think the
unifying people are like death and taxes.
00:32:12
I was like, I think pain.
00:32:15
I think it's actually pain.
00:32:18
Now I do think in life we
have love, We have joy.
00:32:22
We have community.
00:32:24
We have like just these things
that glitter through our soul.
00:32:27
You know, like life has a lot of beauty.
00:32:30
We have beauty.
00:32:31
I'm like, look at Saba.
00:32:33
Like we have beauty in this life.
00:32:36
Um, but I think what we all have is
pain and I couldn't write this series.
00:32:43
I think it would be, I couldn't
do it without there being pain.
00:32:47
You know, and even our like most kid
kind of literature, I was like, when you
00:32:53
watch The Lion King now, you're like,
this is actually kind of messed up to
00:32:57
show to a six, like when you watch dogs
watching The Lion King and being like,
00:33:03
whoa, Mufasa, and you know, and we're like
this, and we're like, whoa, and I'm like,
00:33:09
that's, that's a really messed up story.
00:33:13
That is a painful.
00:33:15
Horrible story that is a child living
with the guilt of killing his father
00:33:22
Who is not only the king of Pride Rock,
but the entire sun in the sky You know
00:33:27
this like Simba is a story of shame and
overcoming that shame in that shadow
00:33:32
and Needing a very sexy Nala to come
and be like get your act together You
00:33:37
know like that's what the story is and
so Like, even our youngest stories,
00:33:45
our most iconic stories, are filled
with horrible pain, tragedy and loss.
00:33:51
You know?
00:33:51
And now we try and soften it, but when
it hits us in life, it's not soft.
00:33:56
It's awful.
00:33:58
It's awful.
00:34:00
It's like, like, I don't know, I feel
like I'm sensing someone's pain in the
00:34:04
room right now because it doesn't feel
like my pain, but it's hitting my heart.
00:34:08
You know?
00:34:08
And also, So that's why I don't
do it just to laugh gleefully
00:34:13
and be like, I've made him cry.
00:34:15
No, I don't do that.
00:34:23
I might do that singing thing,
but not because of your tears.
00:34:30
Okay.
00:34:30
That brings me comfort.
00:34:32
That brings me comfort.
00:34:34
Although I do want to say
that book three is pain.
00:34:38
It's called anguish.
00:34:41
I will not, I will not say anything.
00:34:43
I was like, at least it's,
I didn't, did I, did I lie?
00:34:48
Did she lie?
00:34:51
Yeah.
00:34:52
Yeah.
00:34:52
Subbed.
00:34:53
I did.
00:34:53
Subbed.
00:34:54
I did.
00:34:55
Um, I want to ask as well for
the finale and the book series.
00:34:59
Is there anything that you really
wanted to include but didn't get to?
00:35:03
Oh, yeah.
00:35:04
Yeah.
00:35:05
Okay, let's do something for book
one or book two, like, without
00:35:08
any spoilers for book three.
00:35:10
Well, I'll, well, I'll say this,
because I feel like in a month I'll
00:35:13
be able to talk about book three, and
I'll be able to answer the question
00:35:16
that I think most readers will have.
00:35:18
There was a version of book three
that had about, like, 200 extra pages.
00:35:24
I know, here's the thing, guys.
00:35:26
Here's the thing, you always
tweet me, you always tweet me,
00:35:29
and you're like, we want them all.
00:35:33
Cut nothing.
00:35:36
Give them all.
00:35:37
Give us everything.
00:35:40
No.
00:35:40
No.
00:35:46
Um, I think the difference between the
writer I am now and the writer I was
00:35:51
when I started is I would say there
is a bit of a ruthlessness of pen.
00:35:58
And a ruthlessness of, I want
to do this for these reasons.
00:36:03
I want to do this for a personal reason,
but if I am going to give dignity to
00:36:08
the real situation that these characters
are in, this doesn't make any sense.
00:36:12
Um, and if I'm going to give dignity to
like this culture I've built, then this
00:36:18
culture I brought in that has like two
lines, it's, it's, it's, it's not working.
00:36:24
It's not working.
00:36:25
So it, it's sort of like, um, I don't
know why I'm seeing Masterchef Junior.
00:36:32
But I'm seeing Gordon Ramsay baking
a wedding cake, but I'm seeing
00:36:36
Masterchef Junior like above his head.
00:36:38
I don't, we'll talk about that in therapy.
00:36:40
But like, it's, it's, it's like you have
all the layers of the cake, you gotta
00:36:45
start sculpting, and you gotta carve down,
and you have to be like, what is, what's
00:36:51
the actual rock, what's the diamond?
00:36:53
Um, so it's like I gave you the
diamond, even though I want to give you.
00:36:57
the, kind of the opera, but I'm like,
I got to give dignity to the story and
00:37:03
I got to give dignity to the characters
and you could only do so much at once.
00:37:08
Um, so yeah, well you'll have that full
answer in like a month when I get to
00:37:13
talk about it, but see, no spoilers.
00:37:16
Prepare the book clubs,
prepare the book clubs.
00:37:18
There are book clubs.
00:37:19
I know we're going to be online
in like a month too, because
00:37:22
again, Kris Jenner works hard.
00:37:24
Zai works harder.
00:37:25
So, we'll have more.
00:37:27
Yeah.
00:37:28
Um, so, you have a QR code
that you can actually scan to
00:37:31
ask your questions, so Cute!
00:37:34
Yes.
00:37:35
Right here, and also on your screens
as well for the people at the back.
00:37:39
I'm going to start reading
out as well the questions.
00:37:42
So, um, Stella asked, which character
was the most difficult to write?
00:37:49
Stella, are you here?
00:37:50
Yay.
00:37:52
Hi, Stella
00:37:59
Oh.
00:38:00
Oh, this is so fun.
00:38:01
Um, I, the most difficult character
to write initially was Amari,
00:38:09
because Amari didn't exist in
the inception of the story.
00:38:14
I know.
00:38:15
You're like, what?
00:38:16
What?
00:38:17
This is why we come.
00:38:18
This is why you're here,
because now you know.
00:38:21
And then someone will be like, Oh
yeah, I really love this character.
00:38:23
You're like, Did you know actually in
the original inception of the story,
00:38:26
like, you know, this is why we're here
to stunt on people with knowledge.
00:38:30
So in the original inception of the
story, I knew I had the world of Aresha.
00:38:38
I had Xaeli.
00:38:40
I knew there was a scroll that
she could use to bring magic back.
00:38:44
And I knew that there was a
prince that was against her.
00:38:47
But I needed a way to
get the scroll to Xaeli.
00:38:52
And so for a plot reason, Amari was born.
00:38:56
And in the early drafts of
children, I mean the draft you
00:39:00
guys read was like draft 40.
00:39:03
Um, so in the early drafts, like
the first 20 drafts, it was very
00:39:07
difficult for me to hone Amari's voice.
00:39:10
Cause whenever I would get to her, like,
I was, I was very Xaeli coded at the time.
00:39:15
So I would get to her and I'd be like,
Oh, it's Sandy in the desert, princess.
00:39:20
And like, you know, like, Like
having snark against your characters.
00:39:25
Um, And, but then we get to
the, the ship battle scene.
00:39:31
And here's the thing.
00:39:33
Like, I way more resonate as a
human with Amari in the ship battle
00:39:37
scene than with any other character.
00:39:40
Like, that's actually crazy.
00:39:42
And, and that moment where she's like, I
have to do this, like, Xaeli's in trouble.
00:39:49
And, and she takes the knife, and
like, she, she makes her first kill.
00:39:54
Um, that's when I started to
say, there's something about you.
00:39:59
And then by the end of the story, like,
now my favorite line, In that entire
00:40:04
book is when she stabs King Saron.
00:40:08
And she's like, don't worry,
I will be a better queen.
00:40:13
And ooh, in Spanish.
00:40:18
That line, when I got the script.
00:40:20
And she's like, And I was like,
00:40:28
Like it is very good in Spanish.
00:40:30
I cannot wait for this Spanish dub.
00:40:32
I'm going to be like, that's
going to be on all the time.
00:40:34
Um, That's the moment I
cannot wait for in the movie.
00:40:40
And there's a lot of moments, but
that's the one where I'm gonna get
00:40:44
like, tip over the movie thing,
like throw my popcorn at the screen.
00:40:47
And I don't condone making a mess.
00:40:49
I actually don't, but I'm going
to be so hype because I'm like,
00:40:53
yeah, I'm like, yeah, glow.
00:40:55
That's how I feel about Amari.
00:40:57
I'm like stabbing and stabbing
and taking king tomes.
00:41:00
Yeah, glow.
00:41:01
Like that's how I feel
about Amari by the end.
00:41:05
She became my favorite character.
00:41:08
I think she has the most beautiful
arc in book one and gosh, I can't
00:41:14
wait to see who gets to be Amaria.
00:41:16
That's great.
00:41:17
Um, I can't wait.
00:41:18
I'm, I'm fascinated by her.
00:41:20
So it's very, it's kind of a beautiful
thing about the creative process.
00:41:25
Like the, something that you're like,
Oh, why does this have to be here?
00:41:29
That becomes, in my opinion,
the most powerful arc.
00:41:33
in that entire story.
00:41:37
Thank you, Stella.
00:41:40
Okay.
00:41:41
Next we have Kristen who said,
I've listened to audio versions
00:41:46
of book one and two, and Barney
Topin is an absolute legend.
00:41:50
I'm so excited to hear what Cynthia
Erivo will bring to Zelie's version.
00:41:54
I also want to say, into this question,
Auntie Cintia, she has given me her
00:41:59
permission to actually call her like
that, you know, she commented on one,
00:42:02
under one of my videos, she said you
can call me like that, so Auntie Cintia.
00:42:05
Okay, okay, Zai, you see this networker?
00:42:11
So, you know, like, how was it to
also like bring her to life, you
00:42:16
know, to kind of like give an insight
to how her voice and her acting, you
00:42:21
know, brings this whole new voice
to Children of Anguish and Anarchy?
00:42:24
Yeah, it was, they asked me in
the beginning, they were like,
00:42:28
Okay, do you want kind of what
guidelines do you want to give her?
00:42:32
And I was like, I don't want to give
her, I was like, I want she's an artist.
00:42:36
I was like, And her, to me, her
greatest artistry is her voice.
00:42:41
I was like, I want her
to use her artistry.
00:42:45
I don't want to put like, Oh, we, we did
it like this, or we said it like this.
00:42:49
I'm like, I think the beauty, cause it's
like, I love Bonnie Turpin and so many
00:42:54
of my readers, like she won audio book
of the year with children of blood and
00:42:58
bone, like Bonnie Turpin is incredible.
00:43:02
So it's like.
00:43:05
the only reason I was like, I want
this, I want to make this happen is
00:43:09
because one, Cynthia was so passionate.
00:43:12
And two, I thought it'd be so
beautiful to have another Nigerian
00:43:16
bringing this to life and, and
just a creative collaboration.
00:43:21
And, and it gives me chills.
00:43:24
Her, her, like, I was
like rendition narration.
00:43:28
It gives me chills.
00:43:29
I really like, I, I can't go through like.
00:43:33
I can do like maybe four minutes and
then I'm like and we'll see you next
00:43:38
week Because it's just it's very it
it overwhelms me And I don't like
00:43:43
to be overwhelmed so So yeah, no,
it's really incredible I love that.
00:43:49
Like, I just want to like, listen to
it just to have her voice in my head.
00:43:54
Um, but also like, Cintia River is an
actress and I do have to ask the question.
00:43:59
Yes.
00:44:00
You know, in terms of big names for
the movie, you know, there's this,
00:44:05
there's this little group of like
Nigerian actors like John Boyega, all
00:44:09
of that, you know, you know, okay, okay.
00:44:12
Are there any of those big names that
00:44:17
I can't talk about who I want
in the movie anymore because
00:44:22
we start casting next month.
00:44:24
So,
00:44:32
yeah, and I am, there are certain people,
you know, we've talked to certain people
00:44:38
about certain things and there are some
things I'm, dying to scream at you guys
00:44:43
so we could all be like but Like you know
how like Tom Holland was the problem child
00:44:49
of the Avengers and he was always giving
things I like I don't want Paramount
00:44:53
to know that I am the Tom Holland
00:44:57
So I've been on my best Um, and haven't
said anything, but like now I can't
00:45:03
say it because if I go like, Oh my
God, I'd love for this person to be,
00:45:06
and then like this person gets it.
00:45:07
And then I meet that person on set and
then they're like, Oh, hey, tell me.
00:45:11
And I'm like, well, no,
we're not doing this.
00:45:13
We're not doing this.
00:45:14
Don't don't let's not, I
don't want this energy on set.
00:45:16
Um, but I will say of the conversations
we've had, the things that have struck
00:45:21
me the most is like the humility.
00:45:24
that people are bringing to this project.
00:45:26
Both, like, in front of the
screen and behind the screen.
00:45:29
Cause, you know, we're talking
to, like, Academy Award nominated,
00:45:33
like, production designers.
00:45:35
Like, people who have designed
costumes that have, like, touched
00:45:38
pop culture and, like, made waves.
00:45:40
And, like, even these actors
and actresses that have been
00:45:43
in, like, billion dollar movies.
00:45:44
Like, we're talking to people.
00:45:48
The, there's just this sort of joined
philosophy, joint philosophy of
00:45:54
like, we want to create from here
and bring something to the people.
00:46:00
And I think that's very opposite
of what Hollywood typically is.
00:46:05
Cause I think Hollywood is typically like,
00:46:12
Peasants here, you know,
like, and you know, there was,
00:46:16
there was an age for that.
00:46:17
There was an age for that glamour and
that this, but I think it's really
00:46:20
beautiful to, to have people coming
together, not just with passion for
00:46:25
the project, but, but passion for
the people who the project is for.
00:46:30
Um, yeah, so we're, we're
in a beautiful spot.
00:46:35
I've always told you guys,
like, look at my eyes.
00:46:38
You know, because contractually I
probably can't say what's, if it's bad,
00:46:42
but look at my eyes and my eyes will
tell you, um, we're in an amazing spot.
00:46:48
We're in an amazing spot.
00:46:50
Like the things I've even seen off like
a, like a choreographed fight scene.
00:46:57
Xaeli, her staff, versus 20 guards,
and then I had to destroy the footage.
00:47:03
Like, that's how, like, I was like,
we're moving, and like, there, I,
00:47:07
Gina Prince Bythewood, I was like,
she's a Gemini, but I promise you
00:47:11
she is the general of Ba Sing Se.
00:47:13
I promise you.
00:47:15
And I tell her every day, I'm like, I
can't wait to read your birth chart.
00:47:19
And she's like, great.
00:47:20
Can you tell me this?
00:47:21
And I was like, yes.
00:47:22
And I can't wait to
know what your moon is.
00:47:24
I know you got to have it be a Virgo moon.
00:47:26
I know you got, because it's like she,
00:47:32
this is her.
00:47:34
And this is the entire production.
00:47:36
Steady.
00:47:37
Gina and time, like time knows no enemy.
00:47:40
She's gonna be like, you're,
she's already told me I'm crazy.
00:47:43
And I was like, I am.
00:47:45
And I'm in service of you.
00:47:47
So like the combination of all of
this We're, we're not just coming
00:47:55
for, for, like, Twilight, Hunger
Games, Potter, Black Panther.
00:48:00
It's like, we're, we're, we're, we're
coming from Lord of the Rings throat.
00:48:05
Okay?
00:48:08
We're coming.
00:48:09
We're, we're competitive.
00:48:11
We're like, no, this is war.
00:48:13
This is a movie.
00:48:15
And this movie is war.
00:48:16
And it's time to like, there should
be no movies after this movie.
00:48:21
It should be illegal.
00:48:23
In my country.
00:48:24
So anyway, it's like,
we launched the movie.
00:48:27
I launched my reign as queen
of the United, I don't know.
00:48:31
We'll, we'll, we'll
group, think a good name.
00:48:34
Um, but yes, it's, it's gonna be amazing.
00:48:36
It's going to be,
00:48:41
It's gonna be a, it's, it's, I'm,
I was gonna say a time turner, but
00:48:45
it is, it is gonna be a landmark.
00:48:48
Not just for our people, not just
for our souls, but for cinema.
00:48:53
Yeah.
00:48:59
Children and Blood and Bone to the world!
00:49:01
That's what's going to happen.
00:49:04
We have Christine who's asking, how
do you ground yourself enough to write
00:49:10
thematically about traumatic events
that we are still living through?
00:49:14
Where's Christine?
00:49:15
Hi.
00:49:19
Wow.
00:49:22
Wow.
00:49:24
What a question.
00:49:30
I don't, not that I don't know how to lie.
00:49:33
Um,
00:49:39
I think at this point of my career,
00:49:45
I am no longer living in the traumas
that I am actively writing about.
00:49:53
So for book one, book two and book
three, I was actively living in
00:50:00
whatever pain that I was writing about.
00:50:03
Um, so there was no grounding and
00:50:09
That's not a sustainable
thing, we'll at least say.
00:50:13
Especially for like seven ish years.
00:50:15
Um, I was always in the midst of the
storm that I was putting on page.
00:50:22
And that was just what my
heart was going through.
00:50:25
And then there was deadlines and marketing
and like all these different things and
00:50:30
you know, like I know I've talked about it
on some interviews But a big reason book
00:50:33
three took such a long time is because
I got really sick in like 2021 and so if
00:50:41
it was five years between book Two and
book three like for three of those years.
00:50:47
I was really really sick for about
one and a half of those years, I
00:50:51
was recovering from being sick.
00:50:53
So book three was written almost
entirely in sickness and it took
00:50:59
a long time because of that.
00:51:01
And so I just finished my fourth
novel two weeks ago and it's up.
00:51:08
Thank you.
00:51:10
Thank you.
00:51:13
Um, it is not set in this
world, so it's a new series.
00:51:17
But I wrote it in six months.
00:51:21
And it was the first time I wasn't
writing about the storm I was in.
00:51:28
I, the way I described it is I was like,
it was like I could see the storm I was
00:51:32
in and I was sitting, if it was over the
water, I was like sitting on an inlet
00:51:37
and I had like a canvas on an easel and
I was painting it and it was so, Ooh.
00:51:49
It was intensely beautiful
to witness that storm.
00:51:54
And very scary to realize
that I was in that storm.
00:52:01
Because, again, this was the first time
I was painting the storm from a distance.
00:52:05
So, I think now, Like around the eight
year mark in my career, I have the tools
00:52:14
as a human being, whether that be Like
therapy, journaling, community, not
00:52:22
locking yourself in the dark for hours,
um, and weeks on end, and just writing.
00:52:28
Being able to communicate when
I need more time on a deadline.
00:52:33
being able to build a marketing
campaign that doesn't result
00:52:37
in me getting very sick.
00:52:39
Like it was a bit of learn.
00:52:41
I don't want to say trial and error.
00:52:43
It's like you can only know you.
00:52:46
Something I learned about life as a
reform perfectionist is like, Oh, the
00:52:52
best thing you can do is just learn.
00:52:55
You are going to make mistakes.
00:52:56
You are going to make errors.
00:52:57
You're going to make giant mistakes.
00:52:59
It's actually about the course correction.
00:53:01
And it's about if you keep making the same
mistake again and again and again, that's
00:53:06
when you can start being mad at yourself.
00:53:08
But you, you don't have to be upset about
yourself for any mistake for any time.
00:53:13
You're like, why did I go left when
I clearly could have gone right?
00:53:17
Like life has, what's it called?
00:53:22
It's not bandwidth slack.
00:53:25
I found life actually
has some slack in it.
00:53:30
And so if you were making your
best effort every day, like,
00:53:36
like you, it'll be alright.
00:53:37
And that's what I found.
00:53:38
So now I'm very grounded.
00:53:41
But I'm not living through the storms.
00:53:43
I, I face the storms.
00:53:46
And then I paint about it.
00:53:48
And I, I, I find that it's been
a really beautiful way of also
00:53:53
just rehabilitating my creativity.
00:53:55
Um, So yeah, that's, that's the answer.
00:53:58
That's an amazing question.
00:54:05
We're gonna go for, this is it.
00:54:09
One more question.
00:54:10
One more question, come on.
00:54:12
Um, choose wisely.
00:54:15
One more question from Mo who said, if
you had to name the ideal song or album
00:54:21
to pair with this book, what would it be?
00:54:24
Oh, Haha.
00:54:29
Haha.
00:54:30
Haha.
00:54:32
Sorry.
00:54:34
He said, not give you buck.
00:54:35
And I was like, this book is in
five parts for part one, I think
00:54:40
around chapter like seven or eight,
you could start playing that.
00:54:44
And you know, you just see Zalee laughing.
00:54:49
See the things that give me delight.
00:54:51
Um,
00:54:54
There is one song by Chelsea Wolfe.
00:54:58
It's called, I think
it's called The Waves.
00:55:02
And when you listen to it, so it's
not even an album, it's one song.
00:55:07
I would say that, that is
the emotion of this book.
00:55:13
It's a really deep song.
00:55:15
Um, it's also beautiful.
00:55:18
It's sorrow, it's full of sorrow,
but it's also full of catharsis.
00:55:22
And I think especially towards the end,
I wrote the end of this book to that song
00:55:26
and repeat again and again and again.
00:55:29
And it was the most intense
writing experience I have ever had.
00:55:33
So, that, that's the song,
if, if there's a song.
00:55:38
And then, I imagine, I'll cheat it,
there's a vocal group called The Faux
00:55:46
Paws, and they have a acapella cover.
00:55:51
version of The Dog Days Are Over.
00:55:54
And I always imagine that
playing at the very end.
00:55:58
And I won't say anymore.
00:56:00
No spoilers.
00:56:01
See, you know, we've been locked in.
00:56:03
Yeah.
00:56:05
Thank you so much, Tomi.
00:56:06
This is the end of our conversation.
00:56:09
Thank you.
00:56:09
Tomi!
00:56:15
Give it up for Tomi!
00:56:17
Tomi!
00:56:18
Tomi!
00:56:19
Tomi!
00:56:20
Tomi!
00:56:21
Tomi!
00:56:22
Tomi!
00:56:22
Tomi!
00:56:23
Tomi!
00:56:28
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